What constitues a club dive?

[Kathleen Goddard]

Hi,

I'm a little concerned, as my diving officer informs me that if a dive isn't open to everyone in the club then it's not a club dive, even though he had knowledge of the dives and approved them before myself and my buddy went along. For example there were 2 spaces on a hard boat day, myself and my buddy took them, before we went we told the DO, the skipper is one that we dive with regularly, and we knew the type of diving we were going to do, and the DO raised no objections.

When we sent the slate he refused to log them as the dives were not open to everyone in the club, now it's not the actual number of dives logged that concerns me, I wondered that if this was not a club dive does that mean I'm not covered by BSAC insurance?

I'd be grateful to know if this is a club dive or not, since it doesn't seem to sit with that fact that other people have logged dives from holidays abroad, that are not open to anyone else, for example family holidays, also i'd like to know whether or not under circumstances i would benefit from the protection of BSAC insurance or if I need to take out private insurance, the price of which would probably be around the cost of BSAC memership anyway! Some advice would be really appreciated

Confused sports diver.

[Nigel Hewitt]

I'm a little concerned, as my diving officer informs me that if a dive isn't open to everyone in the club then it's not a club dive, even though

He's the DO. If he says it is not a club dive it is not a club dive.

I wondered that if this was not a club dive does that mean I'm not covered by BSAC insurance?

No. You are covered by the BSAC insurance because you are a BSAC member and you go diving. It's only third party anyway so you only need it if you are planning on killing somebody or something like that. If you want your kit covered that's extra.

I'd be grateful to know if this is a club dive or not,

Why? It doesn't really matter. You are insured and qualified so enjoy your diving. If I tell my DO what diving I did last weekend he doesn't bother to discuss if it was a club dive or not, he tends to say "That sounds fun". Now these dives may not count in the progression of your qualifications because they are not fully documented but diving is not about getting qualifications but enjoyment.

[janos]

If I were to be a bit retentive, then a club dive is one that the DO has approved in advance. Have a look at the link below.

I don't see that it not being open to all the club is a problem either. I frequently organise trips that are for SD+ or for DL+ and are for a maximum of six or twelve divers (depending on whether we use the rib or a hardboat) and I don't see why this is any different to organising a trip with only two spaces.

But that's the retentive view.

The key point here is whether the DO is happy with you doing this dive or not. If you've discussed it with them previously, and they're happy with it, then great, it should be a club dive. If they're unhapppy with it, then they should tell you why and try and persuade you why they think it's a bad idea.

Personally I don't understand why your DO has left you in the halfway house you're in. But then DO's are human too.

Don't worry too much about it. And definitely don't quote chapter and verse at them otherwise you'll irritate them a lot.

Janos

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Hi,

I'm a little concerned, as my diving officer informs me that if a dive isn't open to everyone in the club then it's not a club dive, even though he had knowledge of the dives and approved them before myself and my buddy went along. For example there were 2 spaces on a hard boat day, myself and my buddy took them, before we went we told the DO, the skipper is one that we dive with regularly, and we knew the type of diving we were going to do, and the DO raised no objections.

When we sent the slate he refused to log them as the dives were not open to everyone in the club, now it's not the actual number of dives logged that concerns me, I wondered that if this was not a club dive does that mean I'm not covered by BSAC insurance?

I'd be grateful to know if this is a club dive or not....
also i'd like to know whether or not under circumstances i would benefit from the protection of BSAC insurance or if I need to take out private insurance...

Hi Kathleen

What constitutes a "Club Dive"? Well, that's open to interpretation (see the link others have provided), and it is really up to your DO!

But insurance... forget any rubbish about "...you are not covered if it's not a club dive...", that's a common misconception but it is WRONG. As a BSAC member you ARE covered by BSAC third party insurance as long as you adhere to the Safe Diving Practices (SDP).

But remember that BSAC 3rd party insurance (or any 3rd party insurance) only covers you for 3rd party claims against YOU, i.e. people who decide to sue you because they blame you for something. In such cases you would benefit from the full protection of the BSAC, its legal and specialist support, plus the actual settlement of any successful claim against you (subject to possible court interpretation). So if you're diving on holiday for example some additional travel insurance that includes diving activities is very strongly advised.

It's worth noting that on non club dives who are you diving with? Do they have appropriate 3rd party insurance? Because if they don't and they make a mistake that harms you or causes you loss then you will have an "interesting" time trying to make a claim!

So I hope that answers your questions Kathleen - a "club dive" is basically one that your DO says is a club dive (although they should be following the BOH definitions), you are personally covered by BSAC 3rd party insurance no matter when, where or who you dive with (as long as you follow the SDP) - be that a club dive or not.

HTH

Keith L

[Kathleen Goddard]

:=Hi,
:=
:=I'm a little concerned, as my diving officer informs me that if a dive isn't open to everyone in the club then it's not a club dive, even though he had knowledge of the dives and approved them before myself and my buddy went along. For example there were 2 spaces on a hard boat day, myself and my buddy took them, before we went we told the DO, the skipper is one that we dive with regularly, and we knew the type of diving we were going to do, and the DO raised no objections.
:=
:=When we sent the slate he refused to log them as the dives were not open to everyone in the club, now it's not the actual number of dives logged that concerns me, I wondered that if this was not a club dive does that mean I'm not covered by BSAC insurance?

:=I'd be grateful to know if this is a club dive or not....
also i'd like to know whether or not under circumstances i would benefit from the protection of BSAC insurance or if I need to take out private insurance...

Hi Kathleen

What constitutes a "Club Dive"? Well, that's open to interpretation (see the link others have provided), and it is really up to your DO!

But insurance... forget any rubbish about "...you are not covered if it's not a club dive...", that's a common misconception but it is WRONG. As a BSAC member you ARE covered by BSAC third party insurance as long as you adhere to the Safe Diving Practices (SDP).

But remember that BSAC 3rd party insurance (or any 3rd party insurance) only covers you for 3rd party claims against YOU, i.e. people who decide to sue you because they blame you for something. In such cases you would benefit from the full protection of the BSAC, its legal and specialist support, plus the actual settlement of any successful claim against you (subject to possible court interpretation). So if you're diving on holiday for example some additional travel insurance that includes diving activities is very strongly advised.

It's worth noting that on non club dives who are you diving with? Do they have appropriate 3rd party insurance? Because if they don't and they make a mistake that harms you or causes you loss then you will have an "interesting" time trying to make a claim!

So I hope that answers your questions Kathleen - a "club dive" is basically one that your DO says is a club dive (although they should be following the BOH definitions), you are personally covered by BSAC 3rd party insurance no matter when, where or who you dive with (as long as you follow the SDP) - be that a club dive or not.

HTH

Keith L

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for the information. I generally dive with my buddy who is also a BSAC member so it seems we don't have to worry about insurance, i've had some differing views on whether or not it is a club dives, but it doesn't look like it matters, I was mainly worries about third party insurance. Also for the avoidance of doubt I do understand that bsac's insurance is TPI and i already have all my kit insured separately.

Thanks for all your help guys.

Kathleen

[RobertHelling]

Insurance is not the only place where 'club dive or not' matters. Requiring it for progression dives sounds completely ridiculus to me and in my club there was the rule that you were allowed to use club kit only for club dives. This made it virtually impossible to take other divers from the club to places like Stony without going through the full routine of making it a club dive (which required having a DL marshalling etc) as it was a university club and most divers did not have all the kit of their own.