New BSAC Forums ? What Do The Members Want?

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Within the next few months we are going to be COMPLETELY replacing the BSAC forums. Everything will be brand new, we?ll be moving to an active forum system such as vBulletin on a brand new web server. So I?d like to ask our members and forum contributors what they would like to see in the new system.

We will have new facilities available such as private forums for specific interests and purposes (hooking it automatically into the BSAC HQ Membership system will take us a while, that will probably be 2006), but (for instance) if the regional teams want their own cross regional forum for Coaching staff only ? yes, we can do that.

We do intend to keep some general purpose open-to-all public forums, something like General Forum will always be open to all divers, but what would people like us to do? If you want things like private forums then I?m going to be asking for volunteers to moderate and manage them.

So everything is up for grabs here ? over to the members to hear their views. I?ll mainly just listen, but you all tell me what you want and I?ll look at how we can do it for you.

Thanks

Keith L
BSAC IT Team Leader

[terryh]

I'd like to see specific closed areas for Instructors and
Branch Officers.

HQ already have a database of Instructors and also named
DO's etc. from branches. So it sould be easy to have a closed
shop.

I'm sure that many new Instructors and officers fail to post
because of the open nature of the current fora. Often the only
"advice" going is that from there local peers and that isnt
neccessarily correct or accurate. Asking a question on an open
fora may be a bit too open for many.

Dive instruct did at one time have the right idea, and I'm
sure that a closed BSAC section would do the same.

I'd also like to see definative statements by HQ/technical
either make there way onto the website or at least be
archived onto a general info and locked forum.
That way some of the good points and advice that currently
gets lost in the ether, might still be accessable.

TerryH

[David Walker]

So everything is up for grabs here ? over to the members to hear their views. I?ll mainly just listen, but you all tell me what you want and I?ll look at how we can do it for you.

The only thing i'd say is don't get carried away with adding forums. Particularly as they're fairly quiet at the minute, i'd prefer to have fewer forums. Far nicer to see all the active threads on just a couple of pages rather than flicking through 10 / 20 / 68(!) / however many forums.

It'd also be nice to simply have a single, easy 'login' for the forums, since I never quite know where i am at the minute... if I change my e-mail on the top of this box i'm typing in (on the "Post Reply" thing) will that change everywhere? Does each forum have separate logins (i've never quite worked that out)?

David

[alan taylor]

Within the next few months we are going to be COMPLETELY replacing the BSAC forums. Everything will be brand new, we?ll be moving to an active forum system such as vBulletin on a brand new web server. So I?d like to ask our members and forum contributors what they would like to see in the new system.

We will have new facilities available such as private forums for specific interests and purposes (hooking it automatically into the BSAC HQ Membership system will take us a while, that will probably be 2006), but (for instance) if the regional teams want their own cross regional forum for Coaching staff only ? yes, we can do that.

We do intend to keep some general purpose open-to-all public forums, something like General Forum will always be open to all divers, but what would people like us to do? If you want things like private forums then I?m going to be asking for volunteers to moderate and manage them.

So everything is up for grabs here ? over to the members to hear their views. I?ll mainly just listen, but you all tell me what you want and I?ll look at how we can do it for you.

Thanks

Keith L
BSAC IT Team Leader


Members only forum? was that tried before?

Keep on Divin'

Alan

[alan taylor]

:=Within the next few months we are going to be COMPLETELY replacing the BSAC forums. Everything will be brand new, we?ll be moving to an active forum system such as vBulletin on a brand new web server. So I?d like to ask our members and forum contributors what they would like to see in the new system.
:=
:=We will have new facilities available such as private forums for specific interests and purposes (hooking it automatically into the BSAC HQ Membership system will take us a while, that will probably be 2006), but (for instance) if the regional teams want their own cross regional forum for Coaching staff only ? yes, we can do that.
:=
:=We do intend to keep some general purpose open-to-all public forums, something like General Forum will always be open to all divers, but what would people like us to do? If you want things like private forums then I?m going to be asking for volunteers to moderate and manage them.
:=
:=So everything is up for grabs here ? over to the members to hear their views. I?ll mainly just listen, but you all tell me what you want and I?ll look at how we can do it for you.
:=
:=Thanks
:=
:=Keith L
:=BSAC IT Team Leader


Members only forum? was that tried before?

Keep on Divin'

Alan

Sorry PS Please can items on Buy & sell be deleted when Bought & sold. Some ads go back to 2004.

Luv

Alan

[janos]

I would like to see a planned trips section. I'm not sure of best way to lay it out, but it would be useful for me to have a BSAC forum that allows me to:

a) Advertise my own last minute spaces and sign up to others at the last minute

b) Encourage cross-club cooperation. Especially with SDCs and similar events.

c) Allow people from different clubs to go diving together. There might be only 2 people in each club who are interested in sub-100m trimix diving to video nudibranches mating (ok I exaggerate a little) but if you can put 6 such clubs in contact with each other they can charter a boat.

No club should be an island (unless they really want to be) and I think that internet forums can help this.

Janos

PS - I think Adrian Kelland has set up vBulletin boards before. It might be worth dropping him a line. (Apologies Adrian for dumping you in it!)

[Adrian Kelland]

I would like to see a planned trips section. I'm not sure of best way to lay it out, but it would be useful for me to have a BSAC forum that allows me to:

a) Advertise my own last minute spaces and sign up to others at the last minute

b) Encourage cross-club cooperation. Especially with SDCs and similar events.

c) Allow people from different clubs to go diving together. There might be only 2 people in each club who are interested in sub-100m trimix diving to video nudibranches mating (ok I exaggerate a little) but if you can put 6 such clubs in contact with each other they can charter a boat.

No club should be an island (unless they really want to be) and I think that internet forums can help this.

Janos

PS - I think Adrian Kelland has set up vBulletin boards before. It might be worth dropping him a line. (Apologies Adrian for dumping you in it!)

Cheers Mate!

[alan taylor]

I would like to see a planned trips section. I'm not sure of best way to lay it out, but it would be useful for me to have a BSAC forum that allows me to:

a) Advertise my own last minute spaces and sign up to others at the last minute

b) Encourage cross-club cooperation. Especially with SDCs and similar events.

c) Allow people from different clubs to go diving together. There might be only 2 people in each club who are interested in sub-100m trimix diving to video nudibranches mating (ok I exaggerate a little) but if you can put 6 such clubs in contact with each other they can charter a boat.

No club should be an island (unless they really want to be) and I think that internet forums can help this.

Janos

PS - I think Adrian Kelland has set up vBulletin boards before. It might be worth dropping him a line. (Apologies Adrian for dumping you in it!)

Go Diving forum?

Alan

[Andy Wade]

I'd like to see specific closed areas for Instructors and
Branch Officers.

HQ already have a database of Instructors and also named
DO's etc. from branches. So it sould be easy to have a closed
shop.

I'm sure that many new Instructors and officers fail to post
because of the open nature of the current fora. Often the only
"advice" going is that from there local peers and that isnt
neccessarily correct or accurate. Asking a question on an open
fora may be a bit too open for many.

Dive instruct did at one time have the right idea, and I'm
sure that a closed BSAC section would do the same.

Agreed.
The DI forum is very old fashioned in the way it works, I haven't bothered to change it as I simply haven't had the time, and the end result has been little or no interest in it. It will probably be closed down this year unless anyone can think of a good reason to keep it going. (I can't). Shame really as it started off well. And it is multi agency which a BSAC closed instructors forum unfortunately wouldn't be.
I'm not sure if there would be enough interest from BSAC instructors, but you never know. Posting BSAC related info on it would catch those interested instructors that aren't on the instructor database. Does that get used anyway? I thought I was on it, but never got anything so I assumed it wasn't used.

Going a bit off topic, I'm not sure about the DI website. There's some good stuff, some not so good.
I'd offer it to BSAC for the website if I thought they would be interested. The signals and abbreviations could do with updating as new terminology comes into general usage, so someone would have to look after that section.
I still get emails saying how useful it is, so someone is reading it. I also still think that instructors should be able to share powerpoint lectures and other stuff, so I think the BSAC website should allow this sort of thing to be made available to anyone who wants it - ie people send their customised powerpoint lectures and they are kept in a section for others to download.

My vision for the BSAC website is one that has absolutely everything to do with diving on it, and I mean everything. It should be THE definitive guide to diving, including historical archive material to show divers how it used to be done. It helps to see how the sport has developed over many years to get a fuller understanding of the way it works now. Yes, they should publish the old diving tests too.
I'm sure there are many old codgers on here that would be able to help with this bit. ;-)
It should also be available to anyone, not just BSAC members.

I'd also like to see definative statements by HQ/technical
either make there way onto the website or at least be
archived onto a general info and locked forum.
That way some of the good points and advice that currently
gets lost in the ether, might still be accessable.

Fully agree with that.

[benpanter]

Within the next few months we are going to be COMPLETELY replacing the BSAC forums. Everything will be brand new, we?ll be moving to an active forum system such as vBulletin on a brand new web server. So I?d like to ask our members and forum contributors what they would like to see in the new system.

I log on here roughly once or twice a week. I like the "branching" way that the threads are structured (I'm not much of a fan of the "flat" way of doing things). What I would really like is a button that shows me posts I haven't read yet... at the moment I have to work it out and that gets a bit tedious.

Oh. And call me old fashioned, but for the club & instructor bits I think you would get far less acrimonious conversations if people were forced to use their real names... anominity has it's place, but I'm not sure it's here.

I'd second David's point about sub forums... too many and the limited number of posters are diluted further. I'm not sure what the grand vision for this place is. I don't think that attempting to being all things to all people is necessarily a good plan. We're limited by legality and public image to not have the slanging matches and flame wars you see in other places... and to be honest the solid, calmly spoken advice is why I came back here again. Sticking to issues that effect the club would be a good place to start - there are other places who do technical diving etc. much better than we can here (I'm thinking YD / UKRS etc.).

Something that comes up quite often and doesn't really have a home is medical issues - perhaps a sub forum on that with a king sized html link to the UKSDM referees on the top?

Regional sub forums might be a good idea though, for SDC organizing etc. - but the problem is always going to be getting a critical mass of users so they become useful rather than glorified patchy calendars.

Just my 2p.

Ben

[Sidders]

As David says, not too many forums, else you could end up with lots of inactive groups that don't attract people, rather than a concentrated few busy groups, which attract people.

Do you think a 'New Diver' forum would be worth while? Newbie's could post their daft questions (like I do :) and read other questions posted, which are relevant to new divers. Of course a guru diver would need to chamption this forum to answer the questions.

Cheers.

[Khaled Alwassia]

Keith,
as other said to many (5+) forums is pushing it. YD is as well not the ultamite solution as many post just get lost, or i just can not find them.
One thing which would be nice to have is an area where only an Instructor or branch officer can post BUT only concil or HQ can reply. One may asked WHY, well I was new to BSAC and spend a lot of time reading post and their replies, but i was never sure if that reply was correct. Very often there where many interpretations posted of the constitution or manual or else, but only soldom a clear statement from BSAC what is the fact.

JMVHO

Khaled

[Taff Griffiths]

Hi

I would like to see the following;

1. Amalgamate the the Travel and Go Diving forums into one. This forum will be a one stop shop for advice and comments about all dive sites and locations.

2. Equipment Forum - For advice and discussion about dive equipment. Link to a buy and sell area where it is the responsibility of the individual to post and remove sales & wants postings. Posting to be automaticaly removed from the list after a couple of months if the individual has omitted to to remove the posting.

3. Club matters forum should be renamed Regional & Club forum. This will be a one stop shop for club and regional discussions, spare dive places, expeditions etc. If possible links to club and regional SDCs programs. A volunteer regional co-ordinator to up date these links.

4. DO / Instructor / Training Officer closed forum. This will not only be a discssion forum, but also for clubs and Regional co cordinators to request help and advice. Members will have to to join this forum so that their username and password be included on to the authorised list and must be a current DO / Instructor or Training Officer.

5. In Depth forum soley for medical discussions. Also a link to Medical referee contact list.

6. General forum stays the same.

7. 1 Username and password for all forums.

8. Facility to see who is currently on line.


Regards

Taff

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Thanks for all of the very constructive comments, some great ideas coming out.

My personal nemesis has always been ?members only?, it?s got to be automatic due to the volumes, the current web system made it really difficult, interfacing with the back-office at HQ is a nightmare. I?ve had it running, after a fashion, but it was just too clunky for serious use. BUT? Our new forums will probably be database driven (most are nowadays), we have much better comms facilities at HQ, we?re looking at replacing all of the HQ back-office systems. So again I?m going to have to say ?not yet?, but with a new web server and new HQ systems doing that (and more) in 2006 is very possible!

I agree with the ?fewer is better? approach, we should start small and expand rather than have a few posts rattling around in a huge space. I know that some people don?t like the YD type layout and prefer threaded, many systems have that as a user option. Features such as calendars and ?who is online? are standard in the type of packages we are looking at, as is user customisation. I also agree with the ?no silly names?, we will be running email verification as well. There?s plenty of other forums to play on if you want to be anonymous and disruptive!

To some specific ideas, my comments here are for consideration and discussion ?

?General? becomes ?All Divers?, open to all.

I did like the idea of a ?newbies? forum ? how about ?Ask A Diver?? Open to all, somewhere new and potential divers can come for helpful advice.

?Club Matters? becomes ?National, Regional and Club Forum?. Same idea, that is a prime candidate for Members Only.

?Go Diving? + ?Travel Club? becomes ?Diving and Dive Travel?. Open to all.

?In Depth? becomes ?Technical and Medical?.

?Buy & Sell? keep that ? but auto expire it!

So that?s the core, there?s six of them.

There?s some other good ideas around as well, it?s just a matter of how and where we fit them in. How about something like ?Announcements and FAQ? ? moderated, only selected people can reply, but you can ask a question and get clarification from HQ, NDC, Council or whoever.

I also like the idea of Instructors, Regional and Club officers forums. These could be private on an ?invitation/application only? basis to cut down the noise, you know you would be talking in private to people in a similar position to you. Here we would need some volunteers, if you wouldn?t mind running and moderating such a forum then let?s do it!

Keep the ideas coming please, this is our chance of a fresh start and as far as I?m concerned it?s up to me to provide what the members want, not for me to tell you what I think you want!

Cheers All

Keith L

p.s. Sorry if I've missed any ideas, the above is by no means exhaustive or the solution :-)

[neil r]

I don't know how you lot feel about this , but how about a training section .

IE for SDC's to be advertised , spaces available and what area there going to be taught .

What about clubs advertising OD lectures SD lectures DL lectures and AD lectures , you might not have enough people in your club interested but there may be some students at another club in the same position so why not split the lectures between the revivant clubs that are in this position.

Just a thought

Neil R .

[benpanter]

I don't know how you lot feel about this , but how about a training section .

IE for SDC's to be advertised , spaces available and what area there going to be taught .

What about clubs advertising OD lectures SD lectures DL lectures and AD lectures , you might not have enough people in your club interested but there may be some students at another club in the same position so why not split the lectures between the revivant clubs that are in this position.

Just a thought

Neil R .


I think that's a great idea, but I think it should be organized into regional subforums rather than one sprawling list for the whole club - then you would only need to check the regions you were prepared to travel to.

[David Walker]

I think that's a great idea, but I think it should be organized into regional subforums

Depends how many people attend other-regional events. Personally i'd happily travel to events in probably 5 or 6 different regions, especially for the less common SDCs. Having to check 6 lists would be a bit of a pain.

If they were listed with the region as a mandatory field in a subtitle or something then you could see them all "at a glance", maybe even a special type of forum where the events are sorted by the date they happen rather than the date they're posted (again date would need to be a mandatory field). Certainly a good idea to have it, just thinking how it would be best presented. Maybe start as a single forum for all regions then split them up if the volume grows too great in one?

David

[janos]

:=I think that's a great idea, but I think it should be organized into regional subforums

Depends how many people attend other-regional events. Personally i'd happily travel to events in probably 5 or 6 different regions, especially for the less common SDCs. Having to check 6 lists would be a bit of a pain.

If they were listed with the region as a mandatory field in a subtitle or something then you could see them all "at a glance", maybe even a special type of forum where the events are sorted by the date they happen rather than the date they're posted (again date would need to be a mandatory field). Certainly a good idea to have it, just thinking how it would be best presented. Maybe start as a single forum for all regions then split them up if the volume grows too great in one?

David

This sounds like an excellent idea...

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

I thought you didn't want lots of forums :-)

OK, how about something like a 'Diver Training' forum, we could just come up with some forum rules about suject lines so we would get -

--------------
EASTERN : Branch SDC Spaces : Nitrox
We have two spaces on our branch Nitrox course...
--------------

Get the subject lines right and you'll have a one-stop-shop for DTP wanted/available. I'm reluctant to split it into regions from the word go, many divers would travel to an adjacent region any way.

Keith L

[john williams]

I thought you didn't want lots of forums :-)

OK, how about something like a 'Diver Training' forum, we could just come up with some forum rules about suject lines so we would get -

--------------
EASTERN : Branch SDC Spaces : Nitrox
We have two spaces on our branch Nitrox course...
--------------

Get the subject lines right and you'll have a one-stop-shop for DTP wanted/available. I'm reluctant to split it into regions from the word go, many divers would travel to an adjacent region any way.

Keith L

How about a tick box for
"Which Regions would you travel to?"

We could set up a search for XYZ course between Date 1 and Date 2 within my geographical area.
the search would then only include those regions...the regional tick list could be a part of the user profile and therefore a once only job.

If we did this for instructors too - then we'd be into the realms of building a useful instructor list for Regional Coaches/SDCOs to look at when they were short of instructors from within their own region.

John

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

How about a tick box for
"Which Regions would you travel to?"

We could set up a search for XYZ course between Date 1 and Date 2 within my geographical area.
the search would then only include those regions...the regional tick list could be a part of the user profile and therefore a once only job.

If we did this for instructors too - then we'd be into the realms of building a useful instructor list for Regional Coaches/SDCOs to look at when they were short of instructors from within their own region.

Now you're getting complex John :-) That's not really a forum function, although if it has a 'Members Directory' featurewe may be able to do something with the membership list, it would depend on which forum system we used. Failing that... that's a "later", we may be able to do that via some systems we're investigating for HQ.

Keith L

[Adrian Kelland]

:=How about a tick box for
:="Which Regions would you travel to?"
:=
:=We could set up a search for XYZ course between Date 1 and Date 2 within my geographical area.
:=the search would then only include those regions...the regional tick list could be a part of the user profile and therefore a once only job.
:=
:=If we did this for instructors too - then we'd be into the realms of building a useful instructor list for Regional Coaches/SDCOs to look at when they were short of instructors from within their own region.

Now you're getting complex John :-) That's not really a forum function, although if it has a 'Members Directory' featurewe may be able to do something with the membership list, it would depend on which forum system we used. Failing that... that's a "later", we may be able to do that via some systems we're investigating for HQ.

Keith L
Not hard, but def not a forum function.

It may as well not be Regional, but 'just' list the SDCs/Locations and distance from members input Postcode. You would require coords for the SDC Locations and get coords from a Postcode lookup (PAF? or perhaps even a way to get them from Multimap/Streetmap), calc straight line distance and sort in ascending order. One for our chat perhaps.

[janos]

I thought you didn't want lots of forums :-)

I don't! But you asked what I wanted. Now you're saying i can't contradict myself. You're moving the goalposts here Keith :D :D :D :D :D

Seriously, though, too many sub-fora and it's too much hassle to wade through them all. But I'm now happy with "New Posts" and that's the system I use for browsing other forums that I'm not a member of.

But I do like the idea of advertising events. Personally, I think this should the most focus of the forum. (Offical updates coming a close second). Putting the region in the heading is handy, but as someone who is London based I'm interested in SE, S, London, E, and Midlands. And have done an SDC in Yorkshire as my parents still live there.

But a quick and easy way to identify regions would be nice.

On another note, I think there *should* be a place for general chat on the forum. I booked on a boat through YD two days ago (t'missus decided she had plans for this weekend :D ). I've dived with some of the people on the boat before, but not all of them. Of course t'internet is not real life but I have some idea of their personalities through YD. If the board is too sterile then you might not get the "human" aspect of the people you might be spending the day with.

But obviously it depends what the focus of the board is.

I hope that makes sense.

Janos

[Tricky]

I know that some people don?t like the YD type layout and prefer threaded, many systems have that as a user option.

YD is threaded, you can change the display mode to suit your preference - it just happens that the default is flat. I actually prefer this, but having a choice would seem like a sensible solution.

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

:=I know that some people don?t like the YD type layout and prefer threaded, many systems have that as a user option.

YD is threaded, you can change the display mode to suit your preference - it just happens that the default is flat. I actually prefer this, but having a choice would seem like a sensible solution.

Threaded mode hammers the server, that's why many sysadmins turn it off. I hope that our new one will have the 'grunt' to run it ;-)

Keith L

[Khaled Alwassia]

It may as well not be Regional, but 'just' list the SDCs/Locations and distance from members input Postcode. You would require coords for the SDC Locations and get coords from a Postcode lookup (PAF? or perhaps even a way to get them from Multimap/Streetmap), calc straight line distance and sort in ascending order. One for our chat perhaps.

How would that work for members / branches outside the UK?

Khaled

[David Walker]

:=It may as well not be Regional, but 'just' list the SDCs/Locations and distance from members input Postcode. You would require coords for the SDC Locations and get coords from a Postcode lookup (PAF? or perhaps even a way to get them from Multimap/Streetmap), calc straight line distance and sort in ascending order. One for our chat perhaps.

How would that work for members / branches outside the UK?

Don't think we'd get postcodes for the whole world... To be fair, i'm not even sure if getting postcode lookup for the UK would be particularly valuable - its not going to be like searching for a bank branch where there's one 5 miles away, 7 miles away, 10 miles away, etc. SDCs are likely to be something like 20 miles away, 100 miles away, 120 miles away, etc, and at those distances the distance itself may mean very little. From the North East its much easier to travel a long way south than it is to travel a long way west... better roads!

I think for this a postcode lookup would just be a bit of a "gimmicky" thing rather than truly useful - there aren't enough SDCs to make it difficult to very quickly scan through the whole list.

If it did happen, then I imagine foreign SDCs would just be listed by country - for distance probably just shown as "non-UK"? Again, I don't think there's all that many that makes it difficult to very quickly scan through the whole list.

David

[terryh]

Don't think we'd get postcodes for the whole world... To be fair, i'm not even sure if getting postcode lookup for the UK would be particularly valuable - its not going to be like searching for a bank branch where there's one 5 miles away, 7 miles away, 10 miles away, etc. SDCs are likely to be something like 20 miles away, 100 miles away, 120 miles away, etc, and at those distances the distance itself may mean very little. From the North East its much easier to travel a long way south than it is to travel a long way west... better roads!

I think for this a postcode lookup would just be a bit of a "gimmicky" thing rather than truly useful - there aren't enough SDCs to make it difficult to very quickly scan through the whole list.

If it did happen, then I imagine foreign SDCs would just be listed by country - for distance probably just shown as "non-UK"? Again, I don't think there's all that many that makes it difficult to very quickly scan through the whole list.

David

One thing that really does cause a lot of inefficient running
around, confusion and even lack of support for SDCs is
BSAC's inabilty to say even roughly where the venue is.

When asked by club members, I have to ring HQ on almost every
occasion to see where the IFC, PIE etc. etc. course is held.

So if we are going to have an active SDC etc. site, it does
need to have more detail than what we have now.

BTW
Can we rename or just remove the lamentable Newsflash page.
I'd rather have no news at all then the half-hearted effort
we have at the mo.

TerryH

[David Walker]

One thing that really does cause a lot of inefficient running
around, confusion and even lack of support for SDCs is
BSAC's inabilty to say even roughly where the venue is.

Ah yeah, the usual "its in the Midlands" - I remember it well! I suspect thats partly due to the regional coaching things not booking venues too far in advance though, maybe waiting to see how many they get before they book them, but definitely when they know where it is it would be very useful to update the location. OK yeah you could find out by ringing BSAC, but whats the point when it could so easily be put on the website?

David

[terryh]

:=One thing that really does cause a lot of inefficient running
:=around, confusion and even lack of support for SDCs is
:=BSAC's inabilty to say even roughly where the venue is.

Ah yeah, the usual "its in the Midlands" - I remember it well! I suspect thats partly due to the regional coaching things not booking venues too far in advance though, maybe waiting to see how many they get before they book them, but definitely when they know where it is it would be very useful to update the location. OK yeah you could find out by ringing BSAC, but whats the point when it could so easily be put on the website?

David

Thats always been the frustrating thing about BSAC. Logic says
that as soon as you know anything it gets stuck on a bulletin
board, fora, website, anything public. That means more see it
and want to go. Plus saves an awful lot of repetative phone
calls to HQ, which wastes both theres and the callers time.

Same applies to technical questions. It should be a case of only
asking any question once. With a defined awnser it gets put on
the website and from then on all enquiries get directed to
it.

Its been two and a half years now since I started and ditched
the BSAC update site. In that time I've been practicing with
dreamweaver, maybe its time the alternative BSAC site was
resurrected :-)

TerryH

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

:=:=One thing that really does cause a lot of inefficient running
:=:=around, confusion and even lack of support for SDCs is
:=:=BSAC's inabilty to say even roughly where the venue is.
:=
:=Ah yeah, the usual "its in the Midlands" - I remember it well! I suspect thats partly due to the regional coaching things not booking venues too far in advance though, maybe waiting to see how many they get before they book them, but definitely when they know where it is it would be very useful to update the location. OK yeah you could find out by ringing BSAC, but whats the point when it could so easily be put on the website?
:=
:=David

Thats always been the frustrating thing about BSAC. Logic says
that as soon as you know anything it gets stuck on a bulletin
board, fora, website, anything public. That means more see it
and want to go. Plus saves an awful lot of repetative phone
calls to HQ, which wastes both theres and the callers time.

Same applies to technical questions. It should be a case of only
asking any question once. With a defined awnser it gets put on
the website and from then on all enquiries get directed to
it.

Its been two and a half years now since I started and ditched
the BSAC update site. In that time I've been practicing with
dreamweaver, maybe its time the alternative BSAC site was
resurrected :-)

Oi you lot - stop whinging, we're supposed to be talking about FORUMS here!

+ SDC's : Let's start off with a simple manual forum based system. But see below.

+ Online SDC's : We're working on it! I was at HQ Thursday this week progressing just such an active online system.

+ bsac.org/.com : We're working on it! We're working on a temporary 'tidy up' prior to moving to a full CMS system. Our new web server has been specified with full CMS capabilities in mind, I already have sample CMS systems running within the BSAC, tenders for a big CMS system (for .org) are out right now.

+ BSAC Updates (Issue Tracking) : We're working on it! I have an evaluation groupware system (with issue tracking) running on an HQ server. I'm waiting to upgrade one of the HQ DMZ servers before we roll this out, that upgrade is immenent (month or so) as we're currently updating and shuffling the HQ servers.

+ Postcodes : Bit of a gimmick in all honesty - our members in S Wales are really very close to our members in N Devon according to postcode routing! But as part of the overall HQ upgrades we're looking to replace the PAF system, so distances based on postcodes are a possibility.

Now - can we get back to forums discussions please :-)

Keith L

[terryh]

Oi you lot - stop whinging, we're supposed to be talking about FORUMS here!


Agreed, but unless BSAC is suddenly going to start updating
and issuing info, then the next best would be to use the
fora.

YD successfully uses basic fora to organise trips, so why
not BSAC and SDC's. Needs the imput of those running it, but
when they realise the time/cost benefits I'm sure they would
be fighting to use it.

The other point is that the impersonal distanced approach of
meeting nameless individuals on SDC's would be replaced with
personalities we can relate to. Might be just cyberspace, but I
chatted with you many a time before I met you. Do the same for
SDC's and regional coaches etc. and you have more interaction
and less of an us and them.

Because the fora are interactive, it's ideal for this sort of
thing.

TerryH

[janos]

YD successfully uses basic fora to organise trips, so why
not BSAC and SDC's. Needs the imput of those running it, but
when they realise the time/cost benefits I'm sure they would
be fighting to use it.

Agreed. Just been on a great YD organised trip today.

The other point is that the impersonal distanced approach of
meeting nameless individuals on SDC's would be replaced with
personalities we can relate to. Might be just cyberspace, but I
chatted with you many a time before I met you. Do the same for
SDC's and regional coaches etc. and you have more interaction
and less of an us and them.

I agree. And I think this is why the forums need to be less sterile. It's very hard to book on a boat with a bunch of strangers. Of course t'internet is not real life, but at least you have some idea of what to expect!

Janos

[Helen Butcher]

1)General forum
2)something for new divers is a good idea,
3)also somewhere to post medical queries etc/share experiences of DCI etc, as i feel medical stuff gets lost easily,
4)something to do with training is also a good idea, so that SDC's and local lectures on more advanced courses can be posted so that clubs can share training,
5)somewhere for clubs to communicate,
6)queries to HQ,
7)travel/trip reports
8) for sale/wanted

this is generally what ive wanted/used on most forums anyway...

[Philip Smith]

I also agree with the ?no silly names?, we will be running email verification as well.

I agree with that, but hope there will be an option not to display e-mail addresses.

?General? becomes ?All Divers?, open to all.

I did like the idea of a ?newbies? forum ? how about ?Ask A Diver?? Open to all, somewhere new and potential divers can come for helpful advice.

Yes, although these questions could be asked on the "All Divers" forum. Such questions are already asked on the General forum and similar fora elsewhere.

?Club Matters? becomes ?National, Regional and Club Forum?. Same idea, that is a prime candidate for Members Only.

Agreed -- but when you say "Club", do you mean "Branch"?

?In Depth? becomes ?Technical and Medical?.

At the risk of having too many fora, I think "Technical" and "Medical" are sufficiently different to be separate fora. Also, in deciding on names, consideration should be given to the desired scope of the "Technical" forum. The name "Technical" could cover 'aspects of diving technique' (particularly those involved in BSAC training schemes), or so-called 'technical diving', with quite different participants, content and tone as a result!

Philip Smith

[tristan green]

At the risk of having too many fora, I think "Technical" and "Medical" are sufficiently different to be separate fora.

Keith,

I would agree that technical and medical deserve their own separate places. To take a recent example of posts in the In Depth forum - we have posts for haskell pumps next to the effects of anti-depressants on diving. If I were someone new on these boards I wouldn't want to sift through the "I can't clear my ears" or "where can I find a diving doctor?" threads to find a post about the relative merits of booster pumps or isolation valves. And vice-versa.

Having said this I would like to see the bare minimum of separate forums. I would suggest, in no particular order:

Chat - for those that don't really know if the topic is diving related or not but may be of interest to divers. Maybe forum admin could move posts from here to the correct place as needed.

Branch and HQ - for all those things relating to running a successful branch and direct feedback from those in the know at HQ.

New to diving - place for those new to the sport to post those "what reg/BCD/wetsuit?" and "how much weight?" type questions.

Instructor corner - all questions pertaining to the BSAC training courses.

Medical - as it says on the tin. :o)

Dive trips and courses - place to post invites to join trips and advertise SDC places.

Advanced diving - for technical-diving, technique and special equipment posts.

Plus the buy & sell and travel club forums as they currently are.

I don't think that there would be any need to make any of these fora closed to members/instructors only. If instructors feel that they would benefit from an additional "closed" forum for sensitive threads then maybe that should be added as a sub forum in the "open" instructors forum.

I'd back the registered user and guest route but would like the option to hide my e-mail address from guests so that only registered users could find it.

Run out of thoughts now - sorry for the ramble.

Cheers,
Tristan

[Nigel Hewitt]

I agree with that, but hope there will be an option not to display e-mail addresses.

Definitely. I used to use a specific address only on here based on one of my domains but had to move to a hotmail address as it became a spam route. I am happy to receive mail but not if you are selling blue pills or are are some sartorially challenged young lady inviting me to your webcam site.

>>?In Depth? becomes ?Technical and Medical?.

>At the risk of having too many fora, I think "Technical" and "Medical" are sufficiently different to be separate fora.

Definitely. In other places I read the technical but not the medical lists. Medical often degenerates into hypochondriac's corner for me and I wonder what else I've got.

Technical also means different things to different people. I understand technical as being equipped and trained for more extreeme diving - deep or enclosed. Does it include search and recovery? Where would I discuss using an air lift? Finds recording? Photography? Perhaps if we are aiming to keep the number of forums down we need example words in the header.

[Adrian Kelland]

:=It may as well not be Regional, but 'just' list the SDCs/Locations and distance from members input Postcode. You would require coords for the SDC Locations and get coords from a Postcode lookup (PAF? or perhaps even a way to get them from Multimap/Streetmap), calc straight line distance and sort in ascending order. One for our chat perhaps.

How would that work for members / branches outside the UK?

Khaled
Khaled,

I could have used coords for any position on the world, but as a straight line distance is not the best way for all, it is best not used at all. Shortest route etc would be the way, but probably not for BSAC.

Adrian

PS. For those who think such techniques are gimmicks, companies save a lot of money using them for planning and so on.

[David Walker]

PS. For those who think such techniques are gimmicks, companies save a lot of money using them for planning and so on.

Certainly for some companies it is useful, but for example say you wanted to do a nitrox course. There'll be say around 4 per month across the UK, so you probably save around two seconds in finding the one you want by reading them in order, rather than looking down the list (of around 4) at where they're located. And as I mentioned in another post, when you may be travelling hundreds of miles the distance is far less important than it would be for very short local journeys - for long distances i'm far more likley to look at where it is in relation to major roads and motorways, and with a choice between one 50 miles on country lanes or 100 miles of motorway there's not much in it!

I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is that if the reason more exact location aren't given on the website is because they're not confirmed yet, then you could easily have a 50-100mile margin of error on the distance!

David

[Adrian Kelland]

:=PS. For those who think such techniques are gimmicks, companies save a lot of money using them for planning and so on.

Certainly for some companies it is useful, but for example say you wanted to do a nitrox course. There'll be say around 4 per month across the UK, so you probably save around two seconds in finding the one you want by reading them in order, rather than looking down the list (of around 4) at where they're located. And as I mentioned in another post, when you may be travelling hundreds of miles the distance is far less important than it would be for very short local journeys - for long distances i'm far more likley to look at where it is in relation to major roads and motorways, and with a choice between one 50 miles on country lanes or 100 miles of motorway there's not much in it!

I suppose the other thing to bear in mind is that if the reason more exact location aren't given on the website is because they're not confirmed yet, then you could easily have a 50-100mile margin of error on the distance!

David
I agree David. Publishing provisional info is a pain.

The whole network thing is a no-go once you get into the costs of OSCAR/OSITN (road and transport data from the OS) data which are out of our reach.

Adrian

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

1)General forum
2)something for new divers is a good idea,
3)also somewhere to post medical queries etc/share experiences of DCI etc, as i feel medical stuff gets lost easily,
4)something to do with training is also a good idea, so that SDC's and local lectures on more advanced courses can be posted so that clubs can share training,
5)somewhere for clubs to communicate,
6)queries to HQ,
7)travel/trip reports
8) for sale/wanted

Thanks for that Helen, I think we're distilling quite a reasonable lists here.

In the light of previous and current problems such as the bsac.com errors highlighted elsewhere I feel that a "Bugs & Corrections Reporting" forum may be in order, we're going to be making a lot of changes and bugs WILL creep in. When we start running full CMS with multiple authorship the tracking and resolution of such bugs does become more difficult, so my initial idea is to have a 'Post Topic Only' (i.e. you can't reply/discuss - not the place) that becomes a 'To Do' list for reported bugs, the authors (who will have 'Reply' permissions) can then post a "Fixed!" when it's crossed off the list.

How does that sound as an idea - just thinking aloud at present.

Keith L

[Edward Haynes]

I did like the idea of a ?newbies? forum ? how about ?Ask A Diver?? Open to all, somewhere new and potential divers can come for helpful advice.

Keith

Would it be possible to have a link at the top of this forum to a FAQ page (or pages) so the same question doesn't get asked time and time again.

And,

What if the answer to each FAQ had a reference or link to the DTP lesson or SDC where the skill of knowledge was taught. Might encourage people to complete the qualification or do the SDC.

Just a thought.

Edward

[Adrian Kelland]

:=I did like the idea of a ?newbies? forum ? how about ?Ask A Diver?? Open to all, somewhere new and potential divers can come for helpful advice.

Keith

Would it be possible to have a link at the top of this forum to a FAQ page (or pages) so the same question doesn't get asked time and time again.

And,

What if the answer to each FAQ had a reference or link to the DTP lesson or SDC where the skill of knowledge was taught. Might encourage people to complete the qualification or do the SDC.

Just a thought.

Edward
Edward,

There is no technical reason why the forums should not have a FAQ section.

However I would add that as HQ or the forum admin becomes aware of FAQs, then the answers should be part of a Site FAQ section, not just the forum.

Adrian

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

:=:=I did like the idea of a ?newbies? forum ? how about ?Ask A Diver?? Open to all, somewhere new and potential divers can come for helpful advice.
:=
:=Keith
:=
:=Would it be possible to have a link at the top of this forum to a FAQ page (or pages) so the same question doesn't get asked time and time again.
:=
:=And,
:=
:=What if the answer to each FAQ had a reference or link to the DTP lesson or SDC where the skill of knowledge was taught. Might encourage people to complete the qualification or do the SDC.
:=
:=Just a thought.
:=
:=Edward
Edward,

There is no technical reason why the forums should not have a FAQ section.

However I would add that as HQ or the forum admin becomes aware of FAQs, then the answers should be part of a Site FAQ section, not just the forum.

I tend to agree with Adrian here Edward, although the forums can be a useful source of genarating FAQ's they are not really the place for holding the actual answers. Best would be a dedicated FAQ section (we need our CMS for that), but I think that your idea of a prominent link to a dedicated FAQ section is a good one.

Cheers

Keith L

[Edward Haynes]

Funny thing this forum writing, that's what I intended to say:-)

Edward

[snip] ... I think that your idea of a prominent link to a dedicated FAQ section is a good one.

Cheers

Keith L