Buddy crack bottle din or A

[Roger Wallace]

Hi Everyone...

I am looking to part with some wedge for a new Buddy commando.. does anyone know if there is a specific advantage of the din or Atype crack bottle connections..??

one of them simple things where I guess you can buy the wrong thing...

many thanks Roger

[TerryH]

Hi Everyone...

I am looking to part with some wedge for a new Buddy commando.. does anyone know if there is a specific advantage of the din or Atype crack bottle connections..??

one of them simple things where I guess you can buy the wrong thing...

many thanks Roger


Save your dosh and dont buy either, they are a throwback to an age when
kit wasnt as reliable and arent called suicide bottles for nothing.

Buy the BC, but leave out the bottle.

[PeteM]

Save your dosh and dont buy either, they are a throwback to an age when
kit wasnt as reliable and arent called suicide bottles for nothing.

Buy the BC, but leave out the bottle.

Seconded. And when you buy regs buy DIN as A clamp regs are also a throwback although not quiet as much the spawn of the devil as suicide bottles

[TerryH]

Just to add to that.

Although I think the bottles are poo, the difference is that a din should be fitted to the 300 bar cylinder while the A-clamp is on the 232 version.

[ChristianG]

Although I think the bottles are poo, the difference is that a din should be fitted to the 300 bar cylinder while the A-clamp is on the 232 version.
Huh?

I was under the impression that A Clamp was illegal for 300 bar bottles?

As well, why would you bother to fit A Clamp to 232 bar bottles (and remember that there are other than 232 bar bottles out there, even if rarely so in the UK)?

The world has moved on - A Clamp is dead.

[Dave Woodward]

The world has moved on - A Clamp is dead.

No it isn't unfortunatly I just selected a pair of a clamp regs because about 90% of rental cylinders on boats around here are not DIN convertable.

Dave

[ChristianG]

No it isn't unfortunatly I just selected a pair of a clamp regs because about 90% of rental cylinders on boats around here are not DIN convertable.
What? And there are no converters/adaptors available? That's ridiculous. You just have to attach another gizmo, 20 seconds tops.

I went to DIN when it first appeared in this country, around '92 IIRC, (my tanks are 260 bar WP) and, yes, I had to take a plug with me for my pony when diving the Pacific, just in case, but locally everyone had an adaptor pretty well immediately even though at that time the fill stations were all still configured for A Clamp.

[Roger Wallace]

Many thanks guys..

I dive with a din fitting reg set, my kit is in top condition thats not my fear.. its the real world human error situation of someone messing with a cylinder valve etc.. my own human error as well of course and ending up with no inflator air.. at depth, early stages of a dive, overweighted, I have air via pony but no means of adjusting bouyancy... ??? I was told a few heart stopping stories lately and refitted a crack bottle I had previously discarded... :eek:

[TerryH]

Many thanks guys..

I dive with a din fitting reg set, my kit is in top condition thats not my fear.. its the real world human error situation of someone messing with a cylinder valve etc.. my own human error as well of course and ending up with no inflator air.. at depth, early stages of a dive, overweighted, I have air via pony but no means of adjusting bouyancy... ??? I was told a few heart stopping stories lately and refitted a crack bottle I had previously discarded... :eek:

Do you use a drysuit ;)

[PeteM]

Do you use a drysuit ;)

Are you neutral at the point everything stops working*? Can you fin up six inches so the gas in your BCD starts expanding?

* if not, why not?

[Roger Wallace]

Yes dry suit.... couple of torches.. DSMB... camera etc etc

and early stages of dive... whilst overweighted ...

I know I have other options such as manually inflate a BCD... just looking at the cylinder as a get out of jail card..

[TerryH]

Yes dry suit.... couple of torches.. DSMB... camera etc etc

and early stages of dive... whilst overweighted ...

I know I have other options such as manually inflate a BCD... just looking at the cylinder as a get out of jail card..


Ok its easy to make judgements over the net and I havnt seen you dive
etc. , but look at it this way.

Considering the column this is in and what you've said I think it would be
pretty safe to think that you were a inexperinced beginner.

I can understand where you are coming from, that you think a bottle would
work as a security blanket/get me home solution. The problem is that the
bottle only lives upto that, once you've mastered its use.

Its not a scenario, but well documented that inexperinced divers on the
verge of panic could well crack the bottle and yes while it will start the
ascent, it soon becomes a rapid and uncontrolled one.

Far better to get the weighting right and learn how to use the redundant
systems like the drysuit, finning up, oral inflate that you already have.

I dont like bottles, but if you are schooled in them thats your choice,
but unshooled and that is IMO an accident waiting to happen.

[Mike Halligan]

Huh?

I was under the impression that A Clamp was illegal for 300 bar bottles?

As well, why would you bother to fit A Clamp to 232 bar bottles (and remember that there are other than 232 bar bottles out there, even if rarely so in the UK)?

The world has moved on - A Clamp is dead.

Christian,

'A' clamp is normally rated to 230 bar and thus unfit for 300 bar. However, there is no law to prevent idiots attaching 230 bar yokes to 300 bar cylinders, beyond Darwin's Law and the laws of physics / metallurgy dictating where the splinters of yoke will fly. :eek:

A clamp is far from dead in this part of the UK and many, many others.

[barrygoss]

Many thanks guys..

I dive with a din fitting reg set, my kit is in top condition thats not my fear.. its the real world human error situation of someone messing with a cylinder valve etc.. my own human error as well of course and ending up with no inflator air.. at depth, early stages of a dive, overweighted, I have air via pony but no means of adjusting bouyancy... ??? I was told a few heart stopping stories lately and refitted a crack bottle I had previously discarded... :eek:


Quicker than all of this complete posturing you will see.

How do you rig your kit??

Try running your Stab inflate from your pony. Two benefits, 1/ it actually depletes your pony, so you remember you've got one and to make sure its full.
2/ you've actually now got redundant buoyacy.

I'll bet you £10 you now start to orally inflate your BCD on the surface :-)

The crack bottle is another failure point (did you remember to fill it????)

You are adding to a problem with more equipment rather than the the simplest equipment.

Oh and before anyone mentions it. I'm assuming he is running all bouyancy via a drysuit as per SOP for most clubs I know :-)

B

[PeteM]

and early stages of dive... whilst overweighted ...

Over weighted is completely separate to neutrally buoyant. My comment revering to a better bailout than a suicide bottle was based on you being neutral and again I ask if you are not neutral why not? If you are then there is no issue as swimming up six inches will make you positive

[OneDragons]

You will usually be negatively buoyant during your descent from the surface.

[Edward]

Yes dry suit.... couple of torches.. DSMB... camera etc etc

and early stages of dive... whilst overweighted ...

I know I have other options such as manually inflate a BCD... just looking at the cylinder as a get out of jail card..

Hi Rodger,

Even when descending I maintain just negative buoyancy. The are many times I have to stop/hold station whilst my buddy sorts themselves out, to just plunge to depth is not good practise.

I discarded the jacket battle about 15 years ago, if my main gas dies (for any reason) I could orally inflate my jacket using gas from my pony.

Regards

Edward

[Roger Wallace]

Hi Terry H and all the others that pitched in with great advice..

yes I am very new to UK drysuit diving rather than the warm weather holiday diving I am used to where I find keeping neutrally bouyant much much easier..;)



and thanks everyone for all the great advice its great to be able to post up a query and get so many educated answers..

[Dave Woodward]

Convertors are available, I have 3 at the moment, but they are a bit of a hassle and make the reg stick out more. I don't need to make that compromise. I have DIN regs for when they are needed, and A-clamp for other times.

I have loads of DIN regs, but for heading out on a weekend boat, the majority of tanks are still a-clamp, so I have a nice set of a-clamp regs that fit on nicely. You may have used them for 18 years, but DIN is still not the most used connection.

[ChristianG]

You may have used them for 18 years, but DIN is still not the most used connection.
That's a valid point but, increasingly - even bits of the US are beginning to realise that there is another way - DIN is taking over.

As you know, pretty well all modern tanks automatically come with DIN fittings and if you want A Clamp, the converter plug is screwed into the tank's DIN fitting. I daresay that there are quite a few out there that don't even know that their A Clamp regs are riding on a DIN fitting with that plug screwed into it.

Even though I'm an ancient old mongrel, tradition-bound with it, I still understand when there's a better way and DIN is, unquestionably, a better way. I still live having survived two A Clamp (both O Ring extrusions) failures but zero DIN failures, not that that is anything like statistical proof that DIN is better.

[Richard Whitcombe]

The world has moved on - A Clamp is dead.

Sadly it isnt. Still get a large number of people with A-clamp regs (90% of them are UK or american). Then the usual messing around trying 5 or 6 tank inserts on 5 or 6 different tanks to find one that seals on that combination of first stage, tank and insert. Then repeat the fun for dive 2!

[Roger Wallace]

Quicker than all of this complete posturing you will see.

How do you rig your kit??

Try running your Stab inflate from your pony. Two benefits, 1/ it actually depletes your pony, so you remember you've got one and to make sure its full.
2/ you've actually now got redundant buoyacy.

I'll bet you £10 you now start to orally inflate your BCD on the surface :-)

The crack bottle is another failure point (did you remember to fill it????)

You are adding to a problem with more equipment rather than the the simplest equipment.

Oh and before anyone mentions it. I'm assuming he is running all bouyancy via a drysuit as per SOP for most clubs I know :-)

B

I now have a blanking plug in my new BCD that I picked up yesterday and attached the new inflator to the 1st stage that I will use on my pony..

many thanks

[Richie N]

Hi Everyone...

I am looking to part with some wedge for a new Buddy commando.. does anyone know if there is a specific advantage of the din or Atype crack bottle connections..??

one of them simple things where I guess you can buy the wrong thing...

many thanks Roger


Hi Roger,

check your Personal Messages.