New Sports Diver and Nitrox

[Paul Dayment]

Hi

I just qualified as a Sports Diver (woohoo!), and was curious about using Nitrox with my recent qualification (as Cromhall now do progressive fill I was thinking I may start using it), so gave HQ a call to check if the Sports Diver card had the Nitrox qualification indicated on it.

Apparently the sports diver card doesn't reference this and you have to buy an additional Nitrox card if you want to use it!

Just wandering what the point of this is, surely they should list Nitrox on the back of the card instead, rather than charge extra for the additional card?

[Ron MacRae]

Just wandering what the point of this is, surely they should list Nitrox on the back of the card instead, rather than charge extra for the additional card?

Paul,
But that's not how companies make money.:rolleyes:

Ron.

[craigwarren]

Paul,
But that's not how companies make money.:rolleyes:

Ron.
Ron,
But BSAC aren't a company, they are a club.

This is a good questions... BSAC indicate that even Ocean Divers can use Nitrox 32 or 36. This information should be on the back of the cards, the Nitrox card should only indicate someone has completed the Advanced Nitrox course and can now use extra mixes.

I think this should be raised to BSAC.

[TerryH]

This is a good questions... BSAC indicate that even Ocean Divers can use Nitrox 32 or 36. This information should be on the back of the cards, the Nitrox card should only indicate someone has completed the Advanced Nitrox course and can now use extra mixes.


What Ocean Diver would that be then?

Pre-Nitrox or Apre-Nitrox?

If you have a combined card, you make an association that Ocean Diver
automaticly = Nitrox and that's not true for a very large number of OD's.

There might be scope for a switch sometime in the future, but you'd need
the Nitrox to outnumber the non-nitrox before you could even think about
making it inclusive.

[davemanroe]

I think a combined card would be useful, but to agree with Terry, it would need more than just diver grade; it would need extra info to be detailed along with the grade, e.g. Nitrox 32/36; Nitrox <36; O2 qualified; drysuit trained.

[Ron MacRae]

But BSAC aren't a company, they are a club.

Craig,
That used to be the case. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then chances are it is one.

There are many areas of BSAC where the cheapest option to the club members is not taken. One can only assume BSAC is not adverse to making a profit. And I'm not saying that is always wrong.

Ron.

[Ron MacRae]

What Ocean Diver would that be then?

Pre-Nitrox or Apre-Nitrox?



Terry,
It's not beyond the wit of man, or computer, to determine the qualification date of said OD/SD and use the appropriate wording for nitrox qualified or non-nitrox qualified.

IMO the nitrox card should only be required by ODs and SDs who qualified before nitrox was added to the DTP.

Ron.

[Steve in Sharm]

Hi

I just qualified as a Sports Diver (woohoo!), and was curious about using Nitrox with my recent qualification (as Cromhall now do progressive fill I was thinking I may start using it), so gave HQ a call to check if the Sports Diver card had the Nitrox qualification indicated on it.

Apparently the sports diver card doesn't reference this and you have to buy an additional Nitrox card if you want to use it!

Just wandering what the point of this is, surely they should list Nitrox on the back of the card instead, rather than charge extra for the additional card?

*Sigh* We've had this many times before, I'll let Terry answer for me.

BUT, I do question who taught you and why you are finding this is a surprise, surely your instructor told you all this in the course did he not?

Steve

[ChristianG]

That used to be the case. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then chances are it is one.

There are many areas of BSAC where the cheapest option to the club members is not taken. One can only assume BSAC is not adverse to making a profit. And I'm not saying that is always wrong.
The BSAC is today a company, limited to the limitations of such, as are many other organisations which started out in a similar vein to the BSAC.

The Councillors are the de facto Board Members of the Company. Look it up, I guarantee that that is the case (I haven't even read the appropriate papers).

Why? Simply put because the Company is "limited by guarantee". IOW if it all, somehow, goes pear shaped every BSAC member needs to shell out just one quidlet to get out from under. Why do they have to do that? Effectively they are shareholders in the Company to that very extent.

It is, in these "modern" times, a safety net to avoid the prospect of members otherwise being up for huge individual amounts of money.

Quite frankly I believe that your insurance scheme, particularly in the light of what has recently transpired, beggars imagination. Against that, your "company scheme" has credence.

I don't know but your laudatory Coastguard, I'll lay you pounds to peanuts (if I were a betting man), is also incorporated into a company structure, for much the same reasons. Sometimes they might not be able to get to the prospective wreck, whether they have a very good reason, or not.

[ChristianG]

*Sigh* We've had this many times before, I'll let Terry answer for me.
Now I'm no expert, as Terry is wont to point out, in matters of BSAC training.

However what Paul said was:

I just qualified as a Sports Diver (my emphasis)

AIUI "conventional" Nitrox is taught from Day 1? In which case the just in that statement has every kind of credence.

[PeteM]

I don't know but your laudatory Coastguard, I'll lay you pounds to peanuts (if I were a betting man), is also incorporated into a company structure, for much the same reasons. Sometimes they might not be able to get to the prospective wreck, whether they have a very good reason, or not.

Part of HM Gov - specifically the MCA.

Now not being from around these parts it is possible that you are confusing the coastguard with the lifeboat organisation the RNLI which is a registered charity and is I believe structured as a company limited by guarantee

[TrevorB]

I accept when Nitrox was introduced the cards should have been changed to indicate this, at the same time.

I also accept that BSAC never miss the opportunity to make a buck so they will always have a fix at a price.

But I bought several student note packs last month, £15 each and they all came with a form to get a plastic qualification card free

It not a bad price for what you get and I wonder how these note packs compare with other organisations.

The office is always there to help

I often ask for and get a list of paid up members in our branch so as DO I know who is paid up and who I can train

Don’t be too hard on them

[Paul Dayment]

Hi all

Thanks for the quick response, I hadn't intended to cause a row, and wasn't complaining about paying for an additional card. At the end of the day, company or not, the club has to create income to cover overheads, and a profit is no harm.

I was just a little surprised that the standard qualification card didn't cover it despite it being covered in the syllabus.

In response to the question about my training, the instructors have been excellent throughout, and very willing to explain things, and go over anything again if needed. The only thing they didn't mention was that I needed to order the separate card, which given the change in syllabus in recent years would be easily missed!

Oh well, I'll leave it for now, and sort out the other card when I'm thinking to start using Nitrox

[ChristianG]

Part of HM Gov - specifically the MCA.

Now not being from around these parts it is possible that you are confusing the coastguard with the lifeboat organisation the RNLI which is a registered charity and is I believe structured as a company limited by guarantee
Yup, my mistook, I was indeed referring to the RNLI. :D

[Dave Woodward]

In theory though. within the club you can dive the nitrox without a card, as the details of your qualification are known, etc. The card is for the convenience of buying nitrox from a dive shop who don't know the BSAC system.

Dave

[Stevex]

In theory though. within the club you can dive the nitrox without a card, as the details of your qualification are known, etc. The card is for the convenience of buying nitrox from a dive shop who don't know the BSAC system.

Exactly. I live and work in Riyadh but our dive club have to fly to Jeddah for weekend diving. We regularly use Nitrox for our 2 Friday am dives (Thurs/Fri is the Saudi w/e) prior to flying back to Riyadh on Friday evening; this includes OD's.

[robscubaproxlt]

The overheads etc are and should be paid when you buy your training pack!!!!
Thats the whole idea, we are in a club with members who train you for FREE using thier own time, wots the use of club members (instructors and assistants, DOs, chairman, giving free time and effort) and then find out were being taken advantage off. Next thing you know the club instructors will start charging for expenses and overheads, ie petrol for getting to the pool, air fills etc etc,we are in a club and it should be run as club not a profiteering business!

[Gordon]

Back in the day before Nx was included in the core DTP you had to buy a Nx pack. I can't remember how much it was because my Nx course was a long time ago, but I bet it wasn't less than the £15 we're now paying for a Nx workshop card. So the Sports Diver pack hasn't gone up, the cost of a Nx card hasn't gone up - so it's got cheaper? Doesn't sound like we're being taken advantage of to me.

My biggest issue with the change is that there is now no way for an Ocean Diver to get longer bottom times. Back in the day, you just did Basic Nx - now you have to finish all of sports diver. This is apparently being looked at though.

G

[garethwoodruff]

This is apparently being looked at though.

G

Excellent, thats progress, had not heard of that :)