Long Hose Workshops

[Rich Walker]

Hi all,

After all of the discussion that’s been going on around the BSAC position with regard to the “Hogarthian wrap” technique of stowing and deploying a long hose, I’ve been in discussion with some colleagues and we think we have a pretty neat idea.

We understand that many people may not be familiar with the technique, and have been trying to understand what the fuss has been about, so we are going to run a series of day-long workshops with a view to assisting anybody that is interested to gain an understanding of the techniques. These will not be certification classes and would not be considered as formal training. They will however be taught by professional instructors, all holding current teaching status with HSE recognised agencies.

The outline of the day will be as follows:

0900 Introductions
0930 Gear configuration (Long hose fitting for those without)
1000 Dry run and brief
1100 Dive (aim to demo and practice Long Hose deployment)
1140 Debrief using video
1200 Lunch
1300 Brief and dry run
1400 Dive with a chance to investigating any perceived problems with Long Hose use
1500 Debrief using video
1600 Summary, questions and close

We are opening these workshops to any current BSAC member, but we will be giving priority to ADI’s or above, or current Diving Officers.

- There will be no charge for this event.
- We will provide a long hose if you do not already own one
- You can wear your regular diving equipment
- The first event will be on Saturday 10th April at Vobster Quay (http://www.vobster.com)
- The event will be repeated through the year. The next date will be posted once the first event is full

For more information, please email longhose@gue-uk.com

Best wishes,

Rich Walker
UK Training Director, Global Underwater Explorers
Director of Technical Training, GUE.

[Fiona]

A generous offer Rich - love the email address :)

I'll be down that weekend so I shall come and have a nosey.

[Rich Walker]

It will be good to see you there Fiona.

Rich

[DarrenA]

- There will be no charge for this event.


:)

Dont need the training, but I'd come if I did (and it was 'Up North ;) ).

Appreciated.

[Hamish]

Hi Rich,

This is a generous offer and I am sure will get a substantial uptake by those that can make it, so as a BSAC AD/OWI who does not use this configuration I thank you for this offer.

The only problem is that this will not sway those that require swaying in order to kill off the present debate. What will is the advent of the introduction of HL/PD into mainstream BSAC diving. This can only be achieved by a course instigated and run within BSAC.

In order that this can be achieved a couple people who regularly post on this forum and who are I believe well respected members of BSAC have volunteered their services to create and write up an SDC which will achieve this end.

So good luck with the workshops I'm sure they will be a success.

Hamish

[Rich Walker]

Hamish,

The point is to educate those that want educating. At the moment, the only option is to pay for a class where they don't know whether they want the information or not. Hopefully the free workshop will allow people to make informed decisions on where they stand on the debate.

Rich

[Ron MacRae]

We understand that many people may not be familiar with the technique, and have been trying to understand what the fuss has been about, so we are going to run a series of day-long workshops with a view to assisting anybody that is interested to gain an understanding of the techniques. These will not be certification classes and would not be considered as formal training. They will however be taught by professional instructors, all holding current teaching status with HSE recognised agencies.


Rich,
Thanks for the offer. Unfortunatly I'll be instructing some trainee ODs on the 10th April, also at Vobster, so I won't be able to attend this one but would like to attend a later one.

I would like to understand 'what the fuss has been about' as it doesn't seem that complex to me, but then again I don't hog loop I bungee. It's just a reg on a long hose, what's complex?

I really am confused as to why this needs a whole day?
Guess I'll find out at the next event.

Thanks again for the offer.

Ron.

[Vic]

It's just a reg on a long hose, what's complex?

Precisely. It is a trivial skill.

I really am confused as to why this needs a whole day?

It would be a bit of a work-up if there weren't a bit of a dive to make the day worthwhile, don't you think?

I had plans for a hogloop SDC. The schedule was along the lines of:

10.00: Meet at lake
10.15: Hog loop demonstration
10.25: Tea and medals at Mrs. Miggins' Pie Shoppe

Vic.

[Rich Walker]

LOL, if everyone gets it perfect first time, they can go home for an early bath.

We can always improve, so we are going to have 2 kicks at the cat, so to speak.

Rich

[Garf]

The skill is indeed trivial. However, the day allows plenty of time to discuss all the worries and questions people will inevitably have, to discuss kit configuration, as well as time to actually demonstrate and practice the skill in and out of the water. And it's free. The phrase not looking a gift horse in the mouth springs to mind.

[Ron MacRae]

LOL, if everyone gets it perfect first time, they can go home for an early bath.

We can always improve, so we are going to have 2 kicks at the cat, so to speak.

Rich

Rich,
My earlier comments were not aimed at you. Rather at our own beloved leadership who seem to think this is complex.

Ron.

[Ron MacRae]

I had plans for a hogloop SDC. The schedule was along the lines of:

10.00: Meet at lake
10.15: Hog loop demonstration
10.25: Tea and medals at Mrs. Miggins' Pie Shoppe

Vic.

If we're going all the way to the lake can we delay the tea and medals until after we go for a dive, or two?

Ron.

[Vic]

The phrase not looking a gift horse in the mouth springs to mind.

I'm not knocking the workshops - they're a very generous gift to us all, and I thank everyone involved.

I'm just bemoaning the amount of trouble we have created for everyone by all the hand-wringing we've had over such a simple idea. Hog-looping is something that all of us could do with ease, should we so choose - trying to portray it as in any way difficult, "advanced" or risky is just misrepresentation.

Hog looping is one of the simplest skills you could ever learn. It's somewhat simpler than putting on a pair of fins...

Vic.

[Rich Walker]

Rich,
My earlier comments were not aimed at you. Rather at our own beloved leadership who seem to think this is complex.

Ron.

Hi Ron,

OK, no problem. I won't be teaching this one, but I will be at Vobster as well, so feel free to come over and have a chat if you get time.

Rich

[Woz]

The procedure isn't *that* trivial. It's simple, but the correct method of deployment does need to be taught and practiced. In my experience, people donate it incorrectly (holding the reg), the recipient does the first bit wrong (lets go of the reg before the secondary releasing bit is done) and buoyancy control, of course, goes all over the place.

Restowing is fairly simple but again needs practice.

And remember to put the backup in!

[Mark Papp]

The procedure isn't *that* trivial. It's simple, but the correct method of deployment does need to be taught and practiced. In my experience, people donate it incorrectly (holding the reg), the recipient does the first bit wrong (lets go of the reg before the secondary releasing bit is done) and buoyancy control, of course, goes all over the place.Which differs from the acceptable bungied-long-hosed-primary-donate how?

Restowing is fairly simple but again needs practice.Ah, I knew there'd be a difference.

[johnkendall]

If anyone is interested in attending one of these workshops and would like to have a chat about it in advance, I'll be at LIDS, mostly hanging around the Silent Planet or Underwater Explorers stands. Just come and say Hi.

Thanks

John

[Janos]

Which differs from the acceptable bungied-long-hosed-primary-donate how?

Ah, I knew there'd be a difference.

I don't think there is a difference. Primary donate is the forbidden technique (unless you have been trained) whether you hog loop or not.

Janos

[barrygoss]

If anyone is interested in attending one of these workshops and would like to have a chat about it in advance, I'll be at LIDS, mostly hanging around the Silent Planet or Underwater Explorers stands. Just come and say Hi.

Thanks

John


Bllx John,

I missed you. Sorry went to the show and missed you.

Would have liked to catch up, it's been a long time since our IFC.

I'm one of those caught in the middle ground. Hog loop bt have done for 10+ years without "official" training.

B

B

[Garf]

I don't think there is a difference. Primary donate is the forbidden technique (unless you have been trained) whether you hog loop or not.

Janos

If I am OOG and someone primary donates to me, I promise not to tell.

[GLOC]

I will ..! :)

[johnkendall]

Bllx John,

I missed you. Sorry went to the show and missed you.

Would have liked to catch up, it's been a long time since our IFC.

I'm one of those caught in the middle ground. Hog loop bt have done for 10+ years without "official" training.

B

B

Darn, Sorry I ended up having a whole bunch of meetings at the show so wasn't on the stand quite as much as I would have liked. I'll be back there tomorrow though if anyone wants to discuss Hog looping/Primary donate.

Thanks

John

[Mark Papp]

I don't think there is a difference. Primary donate is the forbidden technique (unless you have been trained) whether you hog loop or not.In that case, please accept my apologies.

I'm afraid I became very bored reading reading the last "clarification" and missed it.

[johnkendall]

Hi All,

If anyone is interested, we still have room for another 1 or 2 divers on this first workshop.

Get in touch if you'd like more info.

Thanks

John

[graham nurse]

I attended the first work shop last week, it was very goood with lots of questions answered and a few interesting deployments of AS;s demonstated. I will write a proper report later.

Thank you to John, Howard, Paul and Jack for giving up your time to help educate people.

Graham.