View Full Version : Equipment servicing
On the internet and in many Diving magazines their are plenty of equipment reviews, I'm sure many of us use these reviews as a guide for our next purchase. But diving equipment is only as good as it's last service.
I have recently discovered that a part is missing from my Octopus, I only discovered this information after the buddy I was diving with needed it. I have had my equipment serviced by several different dive centres over the years so cannot pinpoint when the part disappeared, although the last person who serviced the regulator should have noticed the part missing and technically is liable.
On another instance, I asked a dive store to replace the wrist seals on my dry suit, they assured me the work would be complete within a week, 3 weeks later I was making phone calls to friends asking if I could loan a dry/semi dry suit as I was about to go away for a diving weekend and my suit was not ready.
I'm sure many of us have similar stories of a poor service.
Is there any website out there that reviews the performance of centres that carry out equipment maintenance? With the exception of word of mouth, what tools are out there that can help us make the right decision?
Who regulates equipment servicing?
Alex Gooderham
04-11-2004, 18:58
Not exactly the reply you might have wanted, but now the topic has been raised I can get up on my (small) soap box and say what I've felt for a long time, and hopefully stimulate a healthy discussion (if I was a politician, I'd have said robust debate!).
Who regulates equipment servicing?
A good question, it seems to me to be a combination of ASSET (the Association of Scuba Service Engineering Technicians, the diving equipment manufacturers and dive shops.
I have always found it odd that you can quite happily completely disassemble, clean and rebuild any motor vehicle you want and do not need to then get it inspected or tested as long as the MOT for that particular vehicle is still "in date". common sense says you should, but there is no one watching to make sure you do. Not only that but if you are a competent mechanic you save one big fist full of pounds. And as recent news reports and investigations have shown, taking the car to a garage is no guarantee that the work will be safely and correctly carried out by a qualified car mechanic.
To a similar extent, I feel the same is true for diving equipment, it's servicing and the people who carry out the work, the only thing is though, its far more of a closed shop as in general the manufacturers only supply parts to shops with "qualified" service technicians (people who in some cases may have at most, only ATTENDED a one day generic regulator servicing course run by a manufacturer). The "industry" argues that this is why we have such high levels of equipment reliability, maybe, maybe not? maybe the equipment itself is just better than it was twenty years ago.
Income from servicing of regulators can be a good, solid source of income for shops all year round, and I'm sure it keeps some afloat that would otherwise disappear, and to be honest we need as many filling stations as possible. Not only that but I don't think most people have the inclination, time, equipment or enthusiasm to want to service their own equipment.
However for the small number of people, and I include myself in this group, that have the technical ability, attention to detail and knowledge to service their own regulators, why can't we? Even if it means signing some sort of indemnity release form for the manufacturer to absolve them of any responsibility should a regulator be incorrectly reassembled and lead to an accident.
I look forward to hearing other peoples views
Nigel Hewitt
04-11-2004, 19:12
However for the small number of people, and I include myself in this group, that have the technical ability, attention to detail and knowledge to service their own regulators, why can't we?
Nobody regulates hobby diving in the UK. It is slightly awkward to get the parts but nobody stops you servicing your own kit. I feel happier because I know I did it carefully and tested it myself. Then I do a couple of numpty dives first to ensure everything is bedded in then recheck the IPs etc. and we're ready to roll for another year.
nigelH
Alex Gooderham
05-11-2004, 11:16
Nobody regulates hobby diving in the UK. It is slightly awkward to get the parts but nobody stops you servicing your own kit. I feel happier because I know I did it carefully and tested it myself. Then I do a couple of numpty dives first to ensure everything is bedded in then recheck the IPs etc. and we're ready to roll for another year.
nigelH
I feel the same as you, but when I said "why can't we", I didn't mean in the sense of not being allowed to, but in the context of passive discouragement, by the equipment manufacturers.
By passive discouragement, I mean equipment being supplied to end users without an assembly diagram and parts list, essential if you want to order spares, or even discover if all the bits have been put back after a service!
If you visit the manufacturers web sites, they all quite happily list their nearest stockist,yet some do not even list their trading address, let alone telephone number, further discouragement to the prospective "owner-maintainer".
I'll have to think on this for a while, maybe I'll take up reg servicing myself, you never know there might be some money in it!
Chris Cherrington
05-11-2004, 12:37
I'm sure many of us have similar stories of a poor service.
Much as it pains me to say it I have had many years of indifferent service from a variety of LDS, some of whom have been very good in all other respects.
For drysuit repairs I would go back to the manufacturers. Beaver, RoHo and Northern Diver all do repairs and have a reputation at stake, plus the proper kit to do things right.
For regs use the link below.
Most dive shops have neither the skill nor the inclination to do the job properly. Some that have you play lotto as to whether you get the guy that does it right or the Saturday YTS kid.
As to regulation, as above - there is none. The person servicing your life support equipment does not need either qualifications or training...........
Chris
However for the small number of people, and I include myself in this group, that have the technical ability, attention to detail and knowledge to service their own regulators, why can't we? Even if it means signing some sort of indemnity release form for the manufacturer to absolve them of any responsibility should a regulator be incorrectly reassembled and lead to an accident.
I look forward to hearing other peoples views
And how would they know that you were capable of servicing it?
What after selling the packs and you signing a disclaimer
there was a rash of "incidents" with home serviced kit?
Will potential clients say "bad servicing" or "bad regs"?
Think about it this way. If you are responsible enough to
have the reg serviced then you will have used 1 service kit
regardless who does it. So the manufacturer will not make any
more money selling to you direct (the setup cost would easily
take care of any non-trade price hike). He does however leave
himself & his product open to you messing up and causing an incident.
So IMO very little monetary gain and a big chance of a bad rep.
TerryH
Alex Gooderham
05-11-2004, 16:12
And how would they know that you were capable of servicing it?
What after selling the packs and you signing a disclaimer
there was a rash of "incidents" with home serviced kit?
Will potential clients say "bad servicing" or "bad regs"?
Think about it this way. If you are responsible enough to
have the reg serviced then you will have used 1 service kit
regardless who does it. So the manufacturer will not make any
more money selling to you direct (the setup cost would easily
take care of any non-trade price hike). He does however leave
himself & his product open to you messing up and causing an incident.
So IMO very little monetary gain and a big chance of a bad rep.
TerryH
Terry,
While I agree in general about that initially there is little monetary gain, in the long term there may well be.
The set up cost is probably not that much in excess of ?500, and up keep is minimal ( I'd like to see how often the average dive shop gets their test gauges calibrated, assuming that they get them calibrated at all).
In the long term, the savings could be surprising, for example, between my wife and myself we have six Poseidon Jetstreams, two Apex T50D's, a Mares MR12 voltrex and a US divers Micra, a total of ten regulators, so now you start to see where I'm coming from.
It sounds silly, but with the Poseidon jetstreams, I've worked out that it is cheaper using them for three years, then selling them and buying new ones, rather than getting them serviced.
As for a chance of getting a bad reputation, I do not feel that would be the case, my reasoning for this is that although I've "only" been diving for 12 years, I have yet to come across an accident or incident report that mentions the manufacturer/model of any equipment the diver in question was using. Excepting of course accidents and incidents involving rebreathers. At the same time how many accidents or incidents occur due to lack of maintenance? Does that also not produce a bad reputation. I'll leave the debate of "when is the right time to service a reg", for another day. Fortunately good design of regulators in recent years means that apart from increased reliability it is also becoming more difficult to incorrectly reassemble them.
Discussing this topic only last night at our branch it became apparent that over the years, I and a number of friends have all had occassions when freshly serviced regulators have had problems, so now I am very selective in where I get anything serviced.
In 1998, I got a second hand wing and T-set, which included in the price two Poseidon jetstreams, I was assured that they had just been serviced as although they (all the kit actually) had only been used once (my brother-in-law was the buddy),they were two years old and had been packed away in the garage.
During my first dive using the equipment at Stoney, my buddy commented that it was unusual to see a stream of buddles coming from a hole in the first stage, but having seen this on other regs which are designed that way, I wasn't overly concerned. Though happy with the way the regs worked I nevertheless took them to my local shop, and after dismantling them, they found that both first stages had been incorrectly assembled, and could have failed at any time.
The point is, I had to go to a shop, as I was unable to get any information from Poseidon or their then UK agents, regarding assembly drawings or servicing information, and this was despite numerous calls and discussions with them. This meant that I was unable to ascertain if something I owned was or was not correctly assembled, let alone safe to use.
As I said in my original reply, I don't honestly believe that many people would want to service their own regulators, for a whole variety of reasons. For those peole who would like to,and feel that they are able to, it should be easier to get the information they need as well as the parts. It is only recently that have I had the time available and inclination to start to seriously look into this whole issue and from what I've seen so far it doesn't look promising.
Terry,
While I agree in general about that initially there is little monetary gain, in the long term there may well be.
The set up cost is probably not that much in excess of ?500, and up keep is minimal ( I'd like to see how often the average dive shop gets their test gauges calibrated, assuming that they get them calibrated at all).
In the long term, the savings could be surprising, for example, between my wife and myself we have six Poseidon Jetstreams, two Apex T50D's, a Mares MR12 voltrex and a US divers Micra, a total of ten regulators, so now you start to see where I'm coming from.
It sounds silly, but with the Poseidon jetstreams, I've worked out that it is cheaper using them for three years, then selling them and buying new ones, rather than getting them serviced.
As for a chance of getting a bad reputation, I do not feel that would be the case, my reasoning for this is that although I've "only" been diving for 12 years, I have yet to come across an accident or incident report that mentions the manufacturer/model of any equipment the diver in question was using. Excepting of course accidents and incidents involving rebreathers. At the same time how many accidents or incidents occur due to lack of maintenance? Does that also not produce a bad reputation. I'll leave the debate of "when is the right time to service a reg", for another day. Fortunately good design of regulators in recent years means that apart from increased reliability it is also becoming more difficult to incorrectly reassemble them.
Discussing this topic only last night at our branch it became apparent that over the years, I and a number of friends have all had occassions when freshly serviced regulators have had problems, so now I am very selective in where I get anything serviced.
In 1998, I got a second hand wing and T-set, which included in the price two Poseidon jetstreams, I was assured that they had just been serviced as although they (all the kit actually) had only been used once (my brother-in-law was the buddy),they were two years old and had been packed away in the garage.
During my first dive using the equipment at Stoney, my buddy commented that it was unusual to see a stream of buddles coming from a hole in the first stage, but having seen this on other regs which are designed that way, I wasn't overly concerned. Though happy with the way the regs worked I nevertheless took them to my local shop, and after dismantling them, they found that both first stages had been incorrectly assembled, and could have failed at any time.
The point is, I had to go to a shop, as I was unable to get any information from Poseidon or their then UK agents, regarding assembly drawings or servicing information, and this was despite numerous calls and discussions with them. This meant that I was unable to ascertain if something I owned was or was not correctly assembled, let alone safe to use.
As I said in my original reply, I don't honestly believe that many people would want to service their own regulators, for a whole variety of reasons. For those peole who would like to,and feel that they are able to, it should be easier to get the information they need as well as the parts. It is only recently that have I had the time available and inclination to start to seriously look into this whole issue and from what I've seen so far it doesn't look promising.
Err nice long reply, but still missing the point somewhat.
A reg needs servicing yes? Then whether it's you or the shop
a service pack is sold by the manufacturers. Yes they make less
because of dealer discount, but would need more infrastructure
and backup which, would eat into any "direct to public"
surcharge.
As for your regs, you just need to do a bit of homework.
Not only are all the kits available on the net, but so are all
the manuals.
TerryH
PS: You have mail
Philip Smith
06-11-2004, 11:30
And how would they know that you were capable of servicing it?
They do not seem to care that many dive shop technicians are not capable of servicing regs adequately.
What after selling the packs and you signing a disclaimer
there was a rash of "incidents" with home serviced kit?
What if there was a rash of problems with shop-serviced kit? Wait a minute; there is!
Will potential clients say "bad servicing" or "bad regs"?
Why do clients now know that it is not a case of "bad regs"? Because the regs were fine when they were new, not at all bad when they went in to a shop for servicing and worse when they came out.
Think about it this way. If you are responsible enough to
have the reg serviced then you will have used 1 service kit
regardless who does it. So the manufacturer will not make any
more money selling to you direct (the setup cost would easily
take care of any non-trade price hike). He does however leave
himself & his product open to you messing up and causing an incident.
If that was their motivation, they would have no problem selling parts to qualified technicians who are not attached to a dive shop. Most now only sell spare parts to outlets that retail their regulators and only offer courses to dive shop employees.
Philip Smith
They do not seem to care that many dive shop technicians are not capable of servicing regs adequately.
Ahh, but HSE & the courts will.
What if there was a rash of problems with shop-serviced kit? Wait a minute; there is!
As above.
:=Will potential clients say "bad servicing" or "bad regs"?
Why do clients now know that it is not a case of "bad regs"? Because the regs were fine when they were new, not at all bad when they went in to a shop for servicing and worse when they came out.
So they are not going to think that the regs are incapable of
functioning properly even after a service?
So how do you think kit gets a bad rep then?
:=Think about it this way. If you are responsible enough to
:=have the reg serviced then you will have used 1 service kit
:=regardless who does it. So the manufacturer will not make any
:=more money selling to you direct (the setup cost would easily
:=take care of any non-trade price hike). He does however leave
:=himself & his product open to you messing up and causing an incident.
If that was their motivation, they would have no problem selling parts to qualified technicians who are not attached to a dive shop. Most now only sell spare parts to outlets that retail their regulators and only offer courses to dive shop employees.
Err, how many "private" individuals do you know that have full
insurance and comply with HSE regs.
A dive shop comes under public liablity laws and HSE regs.
It is mandatory to have FULL insurance, so no matter if the
servicing is good or bad (you are never going to get 100%)
you (and they ) are covered.
Now if your argument is that you should be able to do your own
regs and that only involves you if it goes t*ts up, well what
of your buddy that put himself at risk trying to save you?
I'm an EO and have a collection of butchered kit where so
called intelligent people have had a go at the simplest of
tasks. Cross threaded ports, damaged din, broken
diaprahms, 2nd stage covers cross threaded, even a din plug
attacked with a screwdriver because he didnt have an allen key!
I'm not saying that you would be anything like that, but how
would it benefit a manufacturer if you could no longer control
who did your brand of regs?
TerryH
Mike Halligan
06-11-2004, 15:20
I'm an EO and have a collection of butchered kit where so
called intelligent people have had a go at the simplest of
tasks. Cross threaded ports, damaged din, broken
diaprahms, 2nd stage covers cross threaded, even a din plug
attacked with a screwdriver because he didnt have an allen key!
Terry,
I've known technicians like that, too.
Good argument, mate, but touting for servicing trade doesn't actually prove the work done will be sound. Only manufacturer's accreditation of the individual technician, through assessed training, offers some promise of that. Read exactly what the certificates say, and make up your own mind would be my advice.
Mike
:=I'm an EO and have a collection of butchered kit where so
:=called intelligent people have had a go at the simplest of
:=tasks. Cross threaded ports, damaged din, broken
:=diaprahms, 2nd stage covers cross threaded, even a din plug
:=attacked with a screwdriver because he didnt have an allen key!
:=
Terry,
I've known technicians like that, too.
Good argument, mate, but touting for servicing trade doesn't actually prove the work done will be sound. Only manufacturer's accreditation of the individual technician, through assessed training, offers some promise of that. Read exactly what the certificates say, and make up your own mind would be my advice.
Yep, but when it's through a dive store you at least have
limited control through local regs/HSE etc.
Imagine the free for all of the alternative!!!!!!
T.
Alex Gooderham
06-11-2004, 17:33
:=I'm an EO and have a collection of butchered kit where so
:=called intelligent people have had a go at the simplest of
:=tasks. Cross threaded ports, damaged din, broken
:=diaprahms, 2nd stage covers cross threaded, even a din plug
:=attacked with a screwdriver because he didnt have an allen key!
:=
Terry,
I've known technicians like that, too.
Good argument, mate, but touting for servicing trade doesn't actually prove the work done will be sound. Only manufacturer's accreditation of the individual technician, through assessed training, offers some promise of that. Read exactly what the certificates say, and make up your own mind would be my advice.
Mike
Firstly I'll show my ignorance and ask what an "EO" is, as I've not come across that 2LA before?
Secondly, I'd like to follow up on Mikes point about the individual technician being assessed and accredited etc.
Do the training courses run my manufacturers actually involve any practical hands on exercises, or are they all "death by powerpoint" presentations, where the most exciting thing that can happen is someone starts snoring midway through the first afternoon session? and how long are these couses? one day most probably, and with how many participants? A one day course, with both theory and practical aspects to it and 8-12 on the course, leaves little time for individual attention by the tutor.
As for the certificates, one manufacturer proudly proclaims that the participant has attended a seminar. Well, I've attended a number of seminars and can assure you I've never got my hands dirty once. So to me the use of the words, attend and seminar, don't raise any great expectations
Is there anyone out there who can enlighten us to the content of a manufacturers course and how good/useful it was, (or even the ASSET technicians course for that matter)?
Adrian Kelland
06-11-2004, 18:25
Firstly I'll show my ignorance and ask what an "EO" is, as I've not come across that 2LA before?
Equipment Officer is likely in this context.
Adrian
Firstly I'll show my ignorance and ask what an "EO" is, as I've not come across that 2LA before?
Equipment Officer
Do the training courses run my manufacturers actually involve any practical hands on exercises, or are they all "death by powerpoint" presentations, where the most exciting thing that can happen is someone starts snoring midway through the first afternoon session? and how long are these couses? one day most probably, and with how many participants? A one day course, with both theory and practical aspects to it and 8-12 on the course, leaves little time for individual attention by the tutor.
Mine was a one day course with complete hands on assembly and
testing of 1st & 2nd stages. All this came with individual
scrutiny of the final assembly. There were 6 on the course and
plenty of time for all. Very intensive and very good.
As for the certificates, one manufacturer proudly proclaims that the participant has attended a seminar. Well, I've attended a number of seminars and can assure you I've never got my hands dirty once. So to me the use of the words, attend and seminar, don't raise any great expectations
Is there anyone out there who can enlighten us to the content of a manufacturers course and how good/useful it was, (or even the ASSET technicians course for that matter)?
Suppose it depends on the manufacturer all the ones I've been
involved with have been A1.
As for ASSET. It should be seen more of a foundation course.
It doesnt replace the manufacturers.
TerryH
john bache
06-11-2004, 22:19
I'm intrigued to know what part of the octopus was missing which didn't show up on buddy checks, but did show up when your buddy needed to use it ?
John
Alex Gooderham
07-11-2004, 00:51
Silly me, EO seems so obvious now I know!
It encourages me to find that an EO has been able to attend any manufacturers courses. With which manufacturers were they? And how good were they?
Its almost reassuring to hear that the ASSET course is SEEN as a foundation course, but for those that pay good money to go and attend it!
Philip Smith
07-11-2004, 10:28
It encourages me to find that an EO has been able to attend any manufacturers courses.
I doubt very much that Terry did it through his BSAC branch. I believe he did it through a shop, but no doubt he will be along soon to explain.
I did a servicing course with a well-known regulator manufacturer through my (non-dive shop) work. At the time (c.1998), they had "service accounts" for supplying only the parts needed for servicing and minor modifications. When I changed employer a few years later, the manufacturer declined to set up a new service account, saying that they now only sell service kits to retail outlets.
Phil S
Philip Smith
07-11-2004, 10:49
:=They do not seem to care that many dive shop technicians are not capable of servicing regs adequately.
Ahh, but HSE & the courts will.
That does not explain the manufacturer's current position.
So they are not going to think that the regs are incapable of
functioning properly even after a service?
So how do you think kit gets a bad rep then?
I don't know any brands of regulator that have a reputation for being prone to malfunction after being serviced. There are plenty of reports of poor servicing of regs of all makes.
Err, how many "private" individuals do you know that have full
insurance and comply with HSE regs.
That is not the concern of the regulator manufacturer. In any case, private individuals servicing their own regulators for amateur diving do not come under HSE regs. If they charged others for servicing they might come within the scope of the local authority trading standards department and may then need separate insurance. However, I would not expect BSAC 3rd party insurance to be invalidated by a member, qualified as a service technician, servicing their own regulator.
Now if your argument is that you should be able to do your own
regs and that only involves you if it goes t*ts up, well what
of your buddy that put himself at risk trying to save you?
See above.
I'm not saying that you would be anything like that, but how
would it benefit a manufacturer if you could no longer control
who did your brand of regs?
They can control it by offering servicing courses and selling spare parts only to qualified technicians. They won't, because they don't want to alienate retail outlets for their products.
Phil S
:=It encourages me to find that an EO has been able to attend any manufacturers courses.
I doubt very much that Terry did it through his BSAC branch. I believe he did it through a shop, but no doubt he will be along soon to explain.
Well that would be telling wouldnt it!
No matter how I did it, the point is that if you want it bad
enough you will make it happen.
TerryH
If a reg needs servicing, it needs a kit.
Currently 99.9% of kits go to dealer technicians using service
accounts.
As I cant sell anymore kits, no matter how I tweak the market
what is the point of doing retail?
None, nada, none whatsoever.
TerryH
If a reg needs servicing, it needs a kit.
Currently 99.9% of kits go to dealer technicians using service
accounts.
As I cant sell anymore kits, no matter how I tweak the market
what is the point of doing retail?
The answer to that questions depends on whether you're looking after your customers interests or your own interests.
Keith L
:=If a reg needs servicing, it needs a kit.
:=Currently 99.9% of kits go to dealer technicians using service
:=accounts.
:=As I cant sell anymore kits, no matter how I tweak the market
:=what is the point of doing retail?
The answer to that questions depends on whether you're looking after your customers interests or your own interests.
Keith L
Hate to be cynical here - basic economics.
Rule 1 - ALWAYS look after your own iterests.
Rule 2 - ONLY look after your customers interests when rule 1
looks like being affected.
Ok let's do the maths.
Total divers you might upset = The number who would service
there own?
Nope! Half of that lot would buy the reg on performance alone
and wouldnt care who serviced it.
So let's say 10% would service and half of those dont care
either way. So I make that 95% of UK divers couldnt care less
who did it.
Bottom line. How is 5% of upset UK divers going to affect my
new reg sales?
Awnser? It wont. Even upset divers still buy regs.
TerryH
Alex Gooderham
08-11-2004, 19:40
While I am happy for people to quote parts of posts, including mine in their subsequent postings, I'd prefer it if they answered all of it or the major point. Which in this case is, what did the courses that people have attended consist of?
If anyone out there who has experience of any manufacturers courses, if so, what is the problem with letting the rest of us know your thoughts, impressions and worth of such a course.
Or is it more likely to get me and a lot of other people worrying?
Philip Smith
09-11-2004, 00:06
If anyone out there who has experience of any manufacturers courses, if so, what is the problem with letting the rest of us know your thoughts, impressions and worth of such a course.
I did a one-day course for servicing several models of regulator and suit valve of a well-known brand. There was supervised hands-on experience of disassembling, assembling and adjusting these models with an instructor:student ratio of about 1:5. There was also a guided tour of the factory. It was a very worthwhile course, which greatly improved my understanding of regulator functioning and equipped me to service my own regulators and correct faults in those of my colleagues and friends. The opportunity arose through my work (not a dive shop), but that possibility seems not to exist any more.
Or is it more likely to get me and a lot of other people worrying?
No. Regulator servicing is not difficult and, if my course was typical, the training is more than adequate. However, servicing needs conscientiousness and attention to detail. I suspect that is what is lacking all too often in busy dive shops.
Phil S
I'm intrigued to know what part of the octopus was missing which didn't show up on buddy checks, but did show up when your buddy needed to use it ?
John,
Not sure if your asking a genuine question or secretly saying "well if you did your buddy checks".
But to answer your question, a retaining ring was missing, this ring holds the diaphragm in place. Without the ring, the diaphragm was able to fold at the edge. On the surface, breathing from the octopus delivered air from the tank and from the atmosphere, beneath the surface, it delivered a mixture of air from the tank and water from stoney cove.
Buddy checks only check for basic functionally and do not guarantee that the equipment will work when submerged.
M
DAVID__MILLS
16-11-2004, 11:26
Buddy checks only check for basic functionally and do not guarantee that the equipment will work when submerged.
M
off topic I know
but It is a very valid point I rarly check my ALT underwater
must make note 2 self change self check at every dive entry.
Thanks
David
off topic I know
but It is a very valid point I rarly check my ALT underwater
must make note 2 self change self check at every dive entry.
Another of those things I nicked from my technical training...
Once in the water I head straight for the shot, get my head down and pause at around 3m. I get neutral, take a few breaths from my alternate, do a quick check to make sure everything is where it should be and my computer is working. I start the descent only when I am sure everything is in order.
I also find that the pause helps with less experienced divers. It gives them a chance to adjust and settle their breathing.
I get all of my regs serviced/repaired at my local dive shop. i have to admit, I'm of the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mind set, which I am sure some of you won't agree with, but that's th enature of choice.
When I take my regs in, the technicians have been more than happy to show me how to do it, and more laterly, to supervise me whilst I do it.
I am, however, told that all a dive shop needs is to have one person trained in servicing a particular brand of regs, and that individual can supervise other untrained individuals doing the job on a comercial basis - now I service my own kit with their help, and I think that's fine, but there's no way some other monkey with no training should be servicing my kit no matter how well supervised.
If a centre truly takes pride in their work, they will be more than happy for you to be there when the work is done. Try asking at your local centre next time.
:=If anyone out there who has experience of any manufacturers courses, if so, what is the problem with letting the rest of us know your thoughts, impressions and worth of such a course.
I did a one-day course for servicing several models of regulator and suit valve of a well-known brand. There was supervised hands-on experience of disassembling, assembling and adjusting these models with an instructor:student ratio of about 1:5. There was also a guided tour of the factory. It was a very worthwhile course, which greatly improved my understanding of regulator functioning and equipped me to service my own regulators and correct faults in those of my colleagues and friends. The opportunity arose through my work (not a dive shop), but that possibility seems not to exist any more.
:=Or is it more likely to get me and a lot of other people worrying?
No. Regulator servicing is not difficult and, if my course was typical, the training is more than adequate. However, servicing needs conscientiousness and attention to detail. I suspect that is what is lacking all too often in busy dive shops.
Phil S
While I am happy for people to quote parts of posts, including mine in their subsequent postings, I'd prefer it if they answered all of it or the major point. Which in this case is, what did the courses that people have attended consist of?
Sorry, but no matter how many times I read this it comes off as
being arrogant and so guarantees (from me at least) that there
wont be an awnser.
TerryH
Alex Gooderham
16-11-2004, 20:37
:=While I am happy for people to quote parts of posts, including mine in their subsequent postings, I'd prefer it if they answered all of it or the major point. Which in this case is, what did the courses that people have attended consist of?
:=
Sorry, but no matter how many times I read this it comes off as
being arrogant and so guarantees (from me at least) that there
wont be an awnser.
TerryH
Terry,
I was hoping to try and "steer" the conversation in a direction that I feel was of interest to myself and other people
It wasn't meant to be arrogant but to encourage/provoke people into letting all those that read these forums, know what is contained in a reg servicing course and the quality of that course they had attended.
Alex
Adrian Kelland
16-11-2004, 20:43
:=:=While I am happy for people to quote parts of posts, including mine in their subsequent postings, I'd prefer it if they answered all of it or the major point. Which in this case is, what did the courses that people have attended consist of?
:=:=
:=
:=Sorry, but no matter how many times I read this it comes off as
:=being arrogant and so guarantees (from me at least) that there
:=wont be an awnser.
:=
:=TerryH
:=
Terry,
I was hoping to try and "steer" the conversation in a direction that I feel was of interest to myself and other people
It wasn't meant to be arrogant but to encourage/provoke people into letting all those that read these forums, know what is contained in a reg servicing course and the quality of that course they had attended.
Alex
Alex,
I can understand the frustration of not getting the answers you seek, but digression will always be part of conversation.
Usually, if no one has not posted the information in the first few posts, then it is unlikely to happen.
Unfortunately the BSAC forum is quite small, although you will find some of the regular posters, Terry and myself included, posting elsewhere too. You may also have to ask your questions elsewhere as well.
regards,
Adrian
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