View Full Version : Pony/Octopus set up
Gordon Nimmo
20-10-2004, 10:40
I have recently bought a Pony (cylinder and reg, not a baby horse..). Im looking for your guys opinion on this thought.
When doing a buddy check should the pony be added/shown to the buddy as another Octopus in an OOA situation or should it be kept for myself as a back up. I guess that in anycase that either would be used until the situation is under control and relevant measures are taken.
What is your view on this?
g.
What is your view on this?
When I use a pony I tell the other diver what it is and what it has in it and demonstrate that it is full working, but then say it is for me so they should take the octo. Having said that is it all goes nipples skywards they can take any reg and I will sort myself out
I have recently bought a Pony (cylinder and reg, not a baby horse..). Im looking for your guys opinion on this thought.
When doing a buddy check should the pony be added/shown to the buddy as another Octopus in an OOA situation or should it be kept for myself as a back up. I guess that in anycase that either would be used until the situation is under control and relevant measures are taken.
What is your view on this?
g.
Hide it!
Your pony is for you. Not your buddy. If you do want to hand
it off, then it should be you that makes the decision.
However it might be an idea to start making personal ruules.
Common rig would be .....
Have the Octo very visible on your left side, above waist
height. Fix pony reg on the right, but slightly round the back
so you know where it is, but your buddy would have to look.
The brown stuff flies .....
Your buddy goes for the Octo, you can stay on primary or if
things get dodgy, switch to your pony and give him all your
remaining air in the main.
But ........
Don't forget to do your calcs.
3lt x 232 = 696 lts / 25lts/min = 27 mins on surface.
10m = 14mins, 20m = 9mins, 30m = 7mins, 40m = 3mins.
Sods law says that all this will happen at the end of your dive.
So you now have say 60/70 bar in your main. Ok so how long
will that last with two of you on it and a heavy breathing
stressed buddy?
So what about personal rules?
If you can't carry enough gas to bail out yourself or your
buddy, dont go there. If your diving is being compromised
by a buddy that is reliant on your redundancy, dont go
there.
Best position for a pony reg?
Anywhere you like as your buddy should have his own and
wont need yours!
Rgds
TerryH
Mike Halligan
20-10-2004, 16:43
What is your view on this?
I include the pony in my buddy check and state that "This spare reg is mine, that (octo) spare reg is yours". When gases other than air are involved, then I would specify what is contained in my pony, and why.
However, I recognise that in reality any spare reg is liable to be grabbed. Thus I keep the pony reg necklaced and the octo across my waist and would, if given the chance, hand off the octo.
Having had cause to use the pony in earnest as one of a pair each equipped with one, I can say we found close similarity in rigging of our kit a great assistance in signalling, assurance, control and a safe resolution.
At risk of a severe roasting I would point out that in that practical application, the similarity proved infinitely more helpful than any standard we could have chosen to apply. It seems to me from experience it is more important to be flexible in your configuration and to mirror each other than it is to plump for one "system" over another.
Hope this helps,
Mike
iainmsmith
20-10-2004, 17:24
I have recently bought a Pony (cylinder and reg, not a baby horse..). Im looking for your guys opinion on this thought.
When doing a buddy check should the pony be added/shown to the buddy as another Octopus in an OOA situation or should it be kept for myself as a back up. I guess that in anycase that either would be used until the situation is under control and relevant measures are taken.
What is your view on this?
If you feel you need a pony, it is _your_ backup. I suggest tying the pony second stage (ideally black) into a necklace around your neck. The reg that you want your buddy to take should be brightly coloured (in order to attract his attention).
You then have immediate access to your pony gas if you need it, without having to try to find a reg which, at a time of crisis, will probably have fallen out of whatever other methods you use to retain it (having experimented with various hose clips, "scum-ball" mouthpiece holders and velcro attachments, I lost all faith in any of them to keep my emergency gas supply instantly available)
By putting the pony reg in a necklace, you are also prepared for the situation where a panicked, out-of-air buddy inconsiderately removes the primary second stage from your mouth without warning (and yes, it does happen). Rather than fighting him for it, you can simply pick up the backup around your neck and put it in. You are also then protected from your buddy ending up in a position where you can't actually get to your octopus or other reg because his body is in the way.
Iain
nick kay
20-10-2004, 17:47
The brown stuff flies .....
Your buddy goes for the Octo, you can stay on primary or if
things get dodgy, switch to your pony and give him all your
remaining air in the main.
Or... Assuming you have enough air and don't need the Pony, then give him the whole pony rig & get him away from you...
John Williams
21-10-2004, 10:25
:=What is your view on this?
When I use a pony I tell the other diver what it is and what it has in it and demonstrate that it is full working, but then say it is for me so they should take the octo. Having said that is it all goes nipples skywards they can take any reg and I will sort myself out
That will depend on what is kept in the Pony cylinder.
Some mixes will not be suitable for breathing at depth. A regulator with a deco mix in it should be kept out of immediate reach and clipped on with a NON-quick release clip - to remind the person who grabs for it that it may not be what they want!
John
:=:=What is your view on this?
:=
:=When I use a pony I tell the other diver what it is and what it has in it and demonstrate that it is full working, but then say it is for me so they should take the octo. Having said that is it all goes nipples skywards they can take any reg and I will sort myself out
That will depend on what is kept in the Pony cylinder.
Some mixes will not be suitable for breathing at depth. A regulator with a deco mix in it should be kept out of immediate reach and clipped on with a NON-quick release clip - to remind the person who grabs for it that it may not be what they want!
Surely if it is not breathable at depths it is not a pony but a stage?
Gordon Nimmo
21-10-2004, 12:26
:=
:=That will depend on what is kept in the Pony cylinder.
:=
Just Air. A back up.
I have a good idea now about what Im going to do.
What is your view on this?
This is my view, and I don't claim it to be a popular one!
I dive / have dived in various kits; single + octo, single + H-Valve, single + pony, independent twins, manifolded twins. Whatever the set and however many cylinders I happen to be using, the configuration stays pretty much the same. Gas which is breathable at all times is back mounted (back gas), with valves turned on. Connected to this are, one main (primary) 2nd stage on a 2m hose and one alternate (backup) 2nd stage. None of my back gas regs are handed.
If I am diving with a buddy trained to take the primary, my backup is on a normal short hose, over my left shoulder, tethered under my chin. When diving with less 'technical' buddies, the backup is on a yellow octo hose and comes under my left arm, across the chest, to a clip on my right shoulder. The 2nd stage is at eye-level for an approaching OOA and the yellow hose points to the reg they should take. If they do happen to take my main, the secondary is within a hand-span of where it would be if tethered.
The benefit of this approach, is that I have ONE common OOA response. If I need to find my backup, it is ALWAYS in the same place. Every OOA drill, whether donating primary or backup, helps to embed the action - which I may one day need when I do not have time to think.
I dive most of the configurations I mentioned earlier with one or more non-breathable deco stage cylinders. I carry deco stages side slung, valves off, regs bungeed in and with a guard over the mouthpiece. The lockouts, are intended to make me think before breathing the gas. The cylinders are in front so I can check the contents before breathing.
It should be pretty obvious why I don't ever carry an AAS side slung. If I was in the habit of having an AAS side slung, in a tight situation I could find myself picking up a deco reg thinking it was an AAS. With the lockouts in place I will not get a breath and that is not going too help stress levels.
As for handing a 3Ltr pony off to an OOA diver, I can't see it ever being a good idea. If the other diver is in trouble I think you should stay in close contact. If the other diver is out of air, they may not have a buoyancy source, surely a good reason to keep a tight grip on them.
I like to keep it simple underwater. Always the same core configuration, always two 2nd stages, always the same well practised skills.
:=What is your view on this?
This is my view, and I don't claim it to be a popular one!
I dive / have dived in various kits; single + octo, single + H-Valve, single + pony, independent twins, manifolded twins. Whatever the set and however many cylinders I happen to be using, the configuration stays pretty much the same. Gas which is breathable at all times is back mounted (back gas), with valves turned on. Connected to this are, one main (primary) 2nd stage on a 2m hose and one alternate (backup) 2nd stage. None of my back gas regs are handed.
If I am diving with a buddy trained to take the primary, my backup is on a normal short hose, over my left shoulder, tethered under my chin. When diving with less 'technical' buddies, the backup is on a yellow octo hose and comes under my left arm, across the chest, to a clip on my right shoulder. The 2nd stage is at eye-level for an approaching OOA and the yellow hose points to the reg they should take. If they do happen to take my main, the secondary is within a hand-span of where it would be if tethered.
The benefit of this approach, is that I have ONE common OOA response. If I need to find my backup, it is ALWAYS in the same place. Every OOA drill, whether donating primary or backup, helps to embed the action - which I may one day need when I do not have time to think.
I dive most of the configurations I mentioned earlier with one or more non-breathable deco stage cylinders. I carry deco stages side slung, valves off, regs bungeed in and with a guard over the mouthpiece. The lockouts, are intended to make me think before breathing the gas. The cylinders are in front so I can check the contents before breathing.
It should be pretty obvious why I don't ever carry an AAS side slung. If I was in the habit of having an AAS side slung, in a tight situation I could find myself picking up a deco reg thinking it was an AAS. With the lockouts in place I will not get a breath and that is not going too help stress levels.
As for handing a 3Ltr pony off to an OOA diver, I can't see it ever being a good idea. If the other diver is in trouble I think you should stay in close contact. If the other diver is out of air, they may not have a buoyancy source, surely a good reason to keep a tight grip on them.
I like to keep it simple underwater. Always the same core configuration, always two 2nd stages, always the same well practised skills.
Yep, all very good and nice to see you have a system that you
have honed and works well, but ......
Can I ask you one question.
Presumably you started on standard Octo etc.
So at what point (dive grade/no of dives etc.) did you switch
to your 2m hose setup?
TerryH
Can I ask you one question.
Presumably you started on standard Octo etc.
So at what point (dive grade/no of dives etc.) did you switch
to your 2m hose setup?
To answer the question. DL, diving 3 to 4 years and close to 400 dives. It makes more sense if I give you the progression
I started with an Auto-air rather than an octo. I was taught to donate from the mouth from day one and no one was aware of a rule which prevented it. This was back in Novice days. I bought a pony after passing Sports with about 20 dives. I fiddled with pony 2nd stage stowage for a couple dives until plaguerising the clipped off on shoulder idea. I had an octo hose on the pony reg, figuring it might be useful for a single. The Autoair was already playing up so it was binned in favour of a simple inflate.
It stayed that way for a year or so until I started getting interested in wrecks around 30m (100 dives) and picked up a couple techie books. The octo hose made it's way to the primary and the pony reg was placed in a necklace about this time. The need to make deco stops soon forced me to go and take DL. At some point I had plumbed the BCD into the pony and dumped the suicide bottle from the stab, but I can't recall when exactly.
Next I started getting limited by the 12L + 3L I was using so went off and bought another cylinder to make a set of indis - still using the short hose and the octo hose. Dived that way for a year until the 30 to 60 mins of deco I was regularly doing upset everyone else on the boat. This was the point that I completely stopped listening to the more traditional element in the branch. I put a backplate and wing together, bought a manifolded set, a 2m hose and committed blasphemy by booking on an IANTD Nitrox course.
Ian Barrie
27-10-2004, 23:10
:=What is your view on this?
I know of several very experienced divers who prefer to dive with their pony cylinders turned off until needed. That would mean that the pony would not be appropriate as an AAS for the other diver. This would be explained during the buddy check - use the octopus only as an AAS.
nick kay
28-10-2004, 16:54
:=:=What is your view on this?
I know of several very experienced divers who prefer to dive with their pony cylinders turned off until needed. That would mean that the pony would not be appropriate as an AAS for the other diver. This would be explained during the buddy check - use the octopus only as an AAS.
>> True, the "preferred" method, is that if the pony cylinder is inverted, i.e. you can get at the 1st stage, then dive with the 2nd stage "charged" but the 1st stage turned off
DAVID__MILLS
04-11-2004, 23:12
:=Can I ask you one question.
:=Presumably you started on standard Octo etc.
:=So at what point (dive grade/no of dives etc.) did you switch
:=to your 2m hose setup?
To answer the question. DL, diving 3 to 4 years and close to 400 dives. It makes more sense if I give you the progression
I started with an Auto-air rather than an octo. I was taught to donate from the mouth from day one and no one was aware of a rule which prevented it. This was back in Novice days. I bought a pony after passing Sports with about 20 dives. I fiddled with pony 2nd stage stowage for a couple dives until plaguerising the clipped off on shoulder idea. I had an octo hose on the pony reg, figuring it might be useful for a single. The Autoair was already playing up so it was binned in favour of a simple inflate.
It stayed that way for a year or so until I started getting interested in wrecks around 30m (100 dives) and picked up a couple techie books. The octo hose made it's way to the primary and the pony reg was placed in a necklace about this time. The need to make deco stops soon forced me to go and take DL. At some point I had plumbed the BCD into the pony and dumped the suicide bottle from the stab, but I can't recall when exactly.
Next I started getting limited by the 12L + 3L I was using so went off and bought another cylinder to make a set of indis - still using the short hose and the octo hose. Dived that way for a year until the 30 to 60 mins of deco I was regularly doing upset everyone else on the boat. This was the point that I completely stopped listening to the more traditional element in the branch. I put a backplate and wing together, bought a manifolded set, a 2m hose and committed blasphemy by booking on an IANTD Nitrox course.
apart from the pony plumbed into bcd I like your diving progression I wish mine was so smooth. reason for not like pony
bit is you cant hand it off as quickly. but each to their own :-)
Mike_Firth
04-01-2005, 19:07
Keep it simple stupid springs to mind. KISS
We are talking air I suppose, humour this old diver who should know better.
Air pony and reg hopefully a jetstream with a 2m extension.
Get an old car tyre and cut it into bands and place two of them on your primary cylinder. Use them to thread your spare reg extension thru. Place your reg over your right shoulder and place the mouthpiece thru a bungee. Place the bungee around your neck resting on your chest.
Show your buddy the spare reg is there for him to use in the event of a crisis and NOT your primary but if he wants the primary he can have it as you can get to your spare reg easily.
Make sure your buddy understands....................
happy diving
Mike
:=:=
:=:=That will depend on what is kept in the Pony cylinder.
:=:=
Just Air. A back up.
I have a good idea now about what Im going to do.
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