Where are the filo log-books?

[terryh]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

TerryH

[John Thirlwell]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

TerryH

Terry,
What exactly do you mean by the 'filofax log-book inserts?

If you are refering to the front cover of each diving grade which the DO signs to qualify a diver, they come with the student notes for each dive grade.

Hope this helps

John

[David Walker]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

I'm not too worried about that (although nice log book pages would be good, just not sure how many you'd realistically fit in) - what seems more strange is that the stickers from instructor courses don't actually fit on the pages in the new QRBs - I have to sit and chop my nice new sticker up to make it fit on the page!

Clearly whoever designed the new QRB didn't bother to tell anyone else in BSAC that the old stickers didn't fit anymore.

David

[Mike Halligan]

Clearly whoever designed the new QRB didn't bother to tell anyone else in BSAC that the old stickers didn't fit anymore.


Not "clearly" at all, merely one of many possibilities.

Just as possibly, someone might have taken a conscious decision in favour of economy, accepting a temporarily reduced effectiveness, to exhaust current stocks before ordering replacement stock in the new size. This would of course then efficiently fit both types of QRB and not waste valuable HQ time distinguishing between sizes for issue.

Mike

[Mike Halligan]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

Terry,

No particular knowledge but, IIRC, the feeling at the time was that the QRB and logbook could/would/should remain separate publications. I think the argument ran that the risk of wetting the QRB drove many to keep it well away from their logbook anyway. (An interpretation that appealed to me at the time, so I promptly lost interest in the subject.)

Does anyone use the red logbook? It is years since I've seen one.

HTH

Mike

[terryh]

No particular knowledge but, IIRC, the feeling at the time was that the QRB and logbook could/would/should remain separate publications. I think the argument ran that the risk of wetting the QRB drove many to keep it well away from their logbook anyway. (An interpretation that appealed to me at the time, so I promptly lost interest in the subject.)

Does anyone use the red logbook? It is years since I've seen one.

HTH

Mike

Tell you what Mike, you really need to think about Marketing
for a National organisation we really dont get it.

We have a new QRB, so logic (and the market) says we need a
new (matching)log book. Yes we can use the old red one, but
it's a different size and format + many WILL want to put it
in there filostyle QRB.

Take a gander over the pond at the dive-log system. That's
been going very sucessfully for at least 8 years. I can lay
odds on one of those appearing at any dive site and they seem
to survive.

So Mr.BSAC marketing department. Can we please have a zipped
all round filofax case (you can put a nice logo on the front
as well) + a range of inserts starting with dive log pages.

TerryH

[iainmsmith]

Does anyone use the red logbook? It is years since I've seen one.

Yes! Currently on volume 8!

I think they're great. I can't think of anything worse than the idea of ringbinder inserts - drop the thing with the clip open and you spend half an hour putting your dives back in order! And what do you do with them when you've got too many to fit in the filofax? Buy another filofax, I guess...but why not just stick with something that works???

Iain

[Mike Halligan]

Tell you what Mike, you really need to think about Marketing
for a National organisation we really dont get it.
Not my bag, Guv, though I do think constantly of marketing. Personally, and with no responsibility in the matter, I'm more than content at present and prepared to recognise that others are already doing very well what is not our core business.
(I happen to use Enjay, have done for 400+ dives. Guess what, they also do a 6-punch version. I also use a TIme Manager, but wouldn't use looseleaf for a divelog as they get so tatty.)

We have a new QRB, so logic (and the market) says we need a
new (matching)log book. Yes we can use the old red one, but
it's a different size and format + many WILL want to put it
in there filostyle QRB.
I was merely reporting what I believe was said (here) at the time.
Take a gander over the pond at the dive-log system. That's
been going very sucessfully for at least 8 years. I can lay
odds on one of those appearing at any dive site and they seem
to survive.
I've seen 'em and don't like 'em. I wonder, were I to use my new-style wallet, what would my QRB pages look like after exposure to wet hands 400 times?

Must we be so antagonistic? It is so ............ English.
Mike

[terryh]

...but why not just stick with something that works???


What, like a blue QRB!!!!!!!!

I prefer the red one. I also prefer to download my Aladin
saves a lot of faff, but I also fully understand that
newbies who have a shiny new filo QRB, cant understand why
there arent any logbook pages to go in them.

TerryH

[terryh]

I've seen 'em and don't like 'em. I wonder, were I to use my new-style wallet, what would my QRB pages look like after exposure to wet hands 400 times?


Well seeing as by the sub 200th dive most of us have consigned
the QRB to the spare room and use a C-card & computer log
it will probably be fine.

New diver, new QRB, new dive log? Well no it's actually the
old red one which is stuffed into a plastic wallet.


Must we be so antagonistic? It is so ............:=

Not trying to be Mike, but must we be so amateurish?
I'm not bothered what x.y & z say about a filo log book.
The fact that EVERY new diver will be getting a filo QRB tells
me that a good number WILL want an filo insert.

TerryH

[Dave]

:=...but why not just stick with something that works???
:=

What, like a blue QRB!!!!!!!!

I prefer the red one. I also prefer to download my Aladin
saves a lot of faff, but I also fully understand that
newbies who have a shiny new filo QRB, cant understand why
there arent any logbook pages to go in them.

TerryH

You could just tell them that dive logs and dive qualifications are different beasts and as such that the 2 are separate

The new style QRBs came out with the new syllabi, perhaps when the logging format of dives changes , they'll bring out a new format log book.

Dave

[David Walker]

separate publications. I think the argument ran that the risk of wetting the QRB drove many to keep it well away from their logbook anyway.

Ah yes - my little red books have been dripped on (most commonly by having wet kit thrown on top, or leaving them out in the rain) so many times...

Does anyone use the red logbook? It is years since I've seen one.

Me! For exactly the reason above, that they can get wet. The red ones only fit around 50 dives in, os you don't use it for all that long before it can be kept safely somewhere else. I know some other people who use a big blue book thing, and that has so many dives in it that by the time you get to the end the poor book will more than likely be lost, destroyed, or just have a nice 'watercolour' effect on the cover.

The one thing with the red ones is that by the time you've folded the page over, you've lost half of the space, and writing in some bits can be a bit of a pain - which is why I would prefer a filo-fax style - I can take a few pages with me, and have one log book to take diving, and another that I transfer the pages to later - probably not the easiest way, but solves both problems. And of course with the loose pages if you forget to log a dive, or write the wrong thing on the wrong page, you can just move them around.

Apparently DiveLogs.com are going to start doing custom designed log pages soon, so you can do your own layout. I'm seriously tempted - variations of page sizes, whatever information on you want... the main reason I haven't moved to loose pages so far is that most have so much information on that is completely irrelevant to what I do - whether it's PADI tables, measurements in imperial, what kind of wetsuit I wore, that kind of thing...

David

[terryh]

You could just tell them that dive logs and dive qualifications are different beasts and as such that the 2 are separate


Come on, my grannies afternoon club is more co-ordinated than
that.

It is a very simple marketing exercise, almost one of the ten
commandments if you like.

If you change the format, you must change anything associated with it.

Yes you can have a lead in or publising time, but
to have two indentifying (in diving terms) books that are not
compatable or interchangable?

Here's one other point. In some grades the number of
progression dives have increased. All we have is a simple
sign-off box. Wouldnt it be a good idea to expand that part with a few log pages to give more detail?

So eg: you dont just get 20, 25, 30, 35m for Sport progression,
but 1/2 extra pages (2/1 to a page) with actual site, conditions, general write up etc.


The new style QRBs came out with the new syllabi, perhaps when the logging format of dives changes , they'll bring out a new format log book.


Yes, but that was two years ago and students are now NOT buying
red logbooks. Most I know make up there own filo pages and have
zipped cases from Staples. Others use log-it and some even
the PADI dive-log. The only ones I know who still use the red
book are those who have blue QRB's.

TerryH

[BSACHQ]

Just to inform you, we are currently looking at producing filofax logbook pages which should be available soon. If you have any other ideas or suggestions for products from the Shop please let us know.

Thanks,
Phil Hughes
Retail Supervisor.

[David Walker]

Just to inform you, we are currently looking at producing filofax logbook pages which should be available soon. If you have any other ideas or suggestions for products from the Shop please let us know.

I quite like the layout of the little red log books. Space for the basic info, and then a full page to write whatever you want really.
Obviously personally i'd have some extra things (at the minute I always write air in / air out under equipment), but some other things I put in I don't expect many would. Equally I don't use tables so the tissue codes are useless to me, and I don't draw my dive profile, but obviosuly they need to be left in for those who do, which is fine. That's the one advantage of the customisable log pages (not that they're available yet) I mentioned earlier - but that'd be a different setup for producing those which I don't suppose BSAC have or want to have - and not something that's too important - unless these customisable pages were the same price as teh BSAC ones, then as long as I could get filofax type pages like you get in the redd log book that'd do me fine.

David

[Nevil Adkins]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

TerryH


If you want it - do it. My previous branch got a batch of filofaxes printed with the club logo and supplied them with about 50 pages of logbook sheets. I think we got between 50 and 100 filofaxes complete with inserts and a further 100 or so packets of inserts. Cost was reasonable and we sold them in the branch for a small profit. Any promotional supplies business can sort this type of thing out for you.

Cheers
Nevil

[Steve Walker]

Just to inform you, we are currently looking at producing filofax logbook pages which should be available soon. If you have any other ideas or suggestions for products from the Shop please let us know.

Thanks,
Phil Hughes
Retail Supervisor.

Suggestion: use different paper for filo log book inserts than that used for the Mao-ist little red log books, the paper currently used is prone to smearing with a variety of inks, hence after my first one was filled I went over to the hardback Enjay type

[terryh]

:=
If you want it - do it. My previous branch got a batch of filofaxes printed with the club logo and supplied them with about 50 pages of logbook sheets. I think we got between 50 and 100 filofaxes complete with inserts and a further 100 or so packets of inserts. Cost was reasonable and we sold them in the branch for a small profit. Any promotional supplies business can sort this type of thing out for you.

Cheers
Nevil

And what if your branch has only 20 members and only 5 newbies
a year. BSAC DTP will have changed to A5 looseleaf by the time
you get through that lot!!!!

Of course we can do it ourselves, but that's not the point is
it?

TerryH

[LES CARTER]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

TerryH


TRY USING YOUR COMPUTER AND GEBERATE YOUR OWN VIA EXCEL OR WORD PRO YOU CAN THEN PRINT AS MANY OR AS FEW AS YOU WISH IN WHATEVER FORMAT AND STYLE. PRINTING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PAPER IS POSSIBLE BUT DO REMEMBER TO USE A LAZER PRINTER AND NOT AN INKJET

[david lisk]

:=We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
:=all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?
:=
:=So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?
:=
:=TerryH
:=
:=
TRY USING YOUR COMPUTER AND GEBERATE YOUR OWN VIA EXCEL OR WORD PRO YOU CAN THEN PRINT AS MANY OR AS FEW AS YOU WISH IN WHATEVER FORMAT AND STYLE. PRINTING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PAPER IS POSSIBLE BUT DO REMEMBER TO USE A LAZER PRINTER AND NOT AN INKJET


I have been deafened!!! STOP SHOUTING (Using capitals, bad form on a forum).

David

[Lindsey Doyle]

Does anyone use the red logbook? It is years since I've seen one.

I still encourage our newbies to buy a new style red logbook for their first at least....ensures they fill in everything i'm going to be checking for OD & SD grades....one of our members cleverly customised his to fit in the looseleaf QRB binder by sticking Gaffa/Duck tape along the spine to form a "hinge" then hole punching it with a holepunch he bought specially.
I would be interested to see these "Enjay" ones if they fit in the new binder, while we wait for Mailshop to produce BSAC ones. Do they have a website, does anyone know?
Personally I still use a red one, (fits in my plastic wallet holder with old-style blue QRB), but the "old-style" logbook which is cheaper, thinner, & you can fit more dives in as i don't tend to write much about some (after 500-odd), but can take as much space as i like for special dives!

[terryh]

:=
TRY USING YOUR COMPUTER AND GEBERATE YOUR OWN VIA EXCEL OR WORD PRO YOU CAN THEN PRINT AS MANY OR AS FEW AS YOU WISH IN WHATEVER FORMAT AND STYLE. PRINTING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE PAPER IS POSSIBLE BUT DO REMEMBER TO USE A LAZER PRINTER AND NOT AN INKJET:=

Bit simplistic awnser, try to think of the bigger picture.
Lost marketing opportunity, bad PR with mismatched systems etc.

T.

[tonyxxx]

We have been on the new DTP now for about two years and
all newbies now have there filofax QRB. Yes?

So tell me where are the filofax log-book inserts?

TerryH





Have you seen this guy, he has logbook pages to download free,
they are good.

<a href="http://www.evilprofessor.co.uk" >http://www.evilprofessor.co.uk</a>

enjoy tony

[rob taylor]

I have written software to design log book pages and other branch forms. It works fine for me, but to offer it more widely, it needs testing.

If you are willing to 'beta-test' and let me know what you think - I'll send you a free copy of the finished item (if it ever is !).

Please email me with details of your printer and operating system, and I'll send you a link.

My apologies to the Mac and Linux communities but my shortcomings as a programmer mean that only Windows users should apply.

Many thanks
Rob Taylor.