View Full Version : Club website design and management
Phil Darlington
12-02-2010, 14:04
Our club, East Cheshire SAC100, has been struggling to update its website over the last 12 months. Various members have been making efforts to keep the content up to date and with a modern feel but other commitments, such as work, always seem to delay the publication giving the site a just out of date feel. http://www.ecsac.org.uk/
The question is how do other clubs manage their websites, is it through club members or do they use website management companies?
If you are using companies who are the good guy ?
Thanks
Phil.
Easy.
Use the website for PR omly and create a members only forum for the day to day
running of the club.
That way the web designer just updates once a quarter making sure stuff
on the pages isnt to old, without the hassle of putting on every new bit of
info on a daily basis.
An active forum almost runs itself and the best bit is that it mails you when
there is a new post, so members tend to watch it more. Better fopr dive
planning as well.
You can also do things like setup specific email accounts.
We have divingofficer membershipsec and dive accounts, which pass on the
info to whoever is in that role. So if the person changes, it doesnt mean
changing everything else.
davebarber
12-02-2010, 14:43
Thurrock are trying out a face book group.
Its more appealing to the younger set and more immediate and vibrant.
See Thurrock Aqualung Club on face book - Its a closed group so you need to request to join group to see the whole thing.
Seems to me to be the way forward.
A quandry I have myself at the moment. Do we have forum, diary of events, photos, etc? Problem is that all of this is done better in other ways...
Facebook is a good idea but is on top of a site, not instead of. I would go with a static info website (much like the one you have) and just spruce it up a bit. Make it look like BSAC's site wouldnt be a bad start.
Write trip reports and get them published on the BSAC site and then just link to them from your site.
Link to peoples Flickr sites (or whatever they use). Put Videos on Youtube. Use Scubatext for letting people know about dives.
All things I am considering now I have been passed the "Website" job at our club and haven't yet done a jot...too busy diving ;)
Macclesfield? Didnt know there was a BSAC club there? Any Tech/Cave types there?
I dive out of Hartford (Northwich) club. PM me if you want any info on webby stuff.
Darren
A quandry I have myself at the moment. Do we have forum, diary of events, photos, etc?
I would say that this is starting from the wrong end...
The technology bit is easy. Building these tools - forum, social networking, diary, blog, CMS - is a simple matter.
The hard bit is in making such tools work for your club; a content management system only works when you have content to manage. A blog is pointless if no-one has anything to say. Social networks fail when members don't use them.
What I'm getting towards is this: all these webby tools are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. It's important first to decide *what* you're trying to achieve. The tools are a simple step once you've worked out what information you've got, and where it's going to go.
Vic.
I would say that this is starting from the wrong end...
......
It's important first to decide *what* you're trying to achieve.
Vic.
Agree entirely. A place for information and planning dives (logistics of dives, not planning actual dives lol) would be helpful (for example). Lots of members will never use it though, so it can never be compulsory, so it comes back to all it needs to be is a static site with contact and basic club info, nothing more is worth bothering with.
The technology is only "easy" for those that know it though (part of the original query I think). So I guess the answer to...
...how do other clubs manage their websites, is it through club members or do they use website management companies?
is dont bother. Write a good static site and leave it.
Darren
Dave Lev
12-02-2010, 16:18
Vic's right. Start with a list of what you want an internet presence to be. Unless you have some pretty exotic needs (!), anything should be doable in much less time than you might imagine.
In answer to you question, our website was created by a valued club member ;) and, hosting aside, was entirely cost free. It may not be perfect for all branches but it suits us very well - a repository of static information about the branch, somewhere for members to share photos, a mechanism to send weekly emails to members and a forum that has become more used than I really ever expected. Always happy to answer any further questions about it.
RAHSAC (http://diving.pdorc.com/)
A place for information and planning dives
I've used a Wiki page for that sort of thing. It's a superb metaphor - as well as being a sign-up pad (just like the traditional noticeboard version), you've got version-controlled chat about it as well. Works brilliantly.
(logistics of dives, not planning actual dives lol)
Even that's not too tricky; my dive planner has multiple front-ends, with a Javascript-based profile graph as one of the options - drag and drop dive planning :-)
I'll probably never release it, though - BSAC has already deemed it unsuitable, so I can't really see a lot of point.
Lots of members will never use it though, so it can never be compulsory
And there is the bigger problem; creating such tools might be considered discriminatory against those branch members who don't use the Internet very much. So we need to consider whether such thi8ngs are actually *desirable* before we consider whetheror not they're possible...
, so it comes back to all it needs to be is a static site with contact and basic club info, nothing more is worth bothering with.
You're probably right.
The technology is only "easy" for those that know it though
Yes, but there are many people who *do* know it, and are perfectly happy to share that knowledge. What annoys me is when people eschew all sources of information until long after they've committed themselves to one particular path (which invariably ends in failure...).
Vic.
Ben Panter
12-02-2010, 16:52
I'll probably never release it, though - BSAC has already deemed it unsuitable, so I can't really see a lot of point.
OK - I'll bite.
Which 'bit' of BSAC has deemed it unsuitable? And why is being endorsed by BSAC the be all and end all of the project? If it's a nice dive planning tool why not release it as an open source tool, which could be skinned by whatever group (branch/group/school/shop) felt like it?
Ben
Which 'bit' of BSAC has deemed it unsuitable?
We had a posting from one of our Technical leading lights just a few weeks ago, telling us that decompression software needs to be proprietary. Since mine is built on perl-gtk, JQuery, and Jaap Voets' work, it cannot be proprietary.
And why is being endorsed by BSAC the be all and end all of the project?
Well, it isn't, really. But a proportion of those who might use it would find out about it here; since they are pretty much excluded, I lost the motivation to finish it off.
If it's a nice dive planning tool
It's not - yet. It was a project to teach me about binding perl to GTK. The JS stuff came later, for a bit of a laugh. But none of it is any more finished than to fulfill my objectives - learning about the GUI technologies.
why not release it as an open source tool, which could be skinned by whatever group (branch/group/school/shop) felt like it?
Because after being told that "proprietary" was an essential criterion for being used by the club I value, I pretty much lost interest.
Vic.
We have been using a forum within the branch, which is by its nature a much more dynamic platform. It's easy for us to add files, be they branch documents or newsletters to the download section.
We have just migrated our website into the forum. The website looked very dated & stagnant. By migrating it to the forum its made it look much more current, & the forum activity keeps the website element looking fresh.
See my signiture for the relevent links.
Gareth
We have been using a forum within the branch
SMF, too. Good choice:-)
We have just migrated our website into the forum. The website looked very dated & stagnant. By migrating it to the forum its made it look much more current, & the forum activity keeps the website element looking fresh.
It's good to have the bulk of the site in a forum idiom - users can find their way around current stuff. But I see this sort of thing as rather impenetrable for someone trying to find out some general info about the club without actually wanting to get engaged in the forum. Perhaps a few static pages alongside might help?
Oh - and are you doing something with UA strings? The first page I got was quite odd; that usually happens when a site has mis-identified my browser as a phone...
Vic.
SMF, too. Good choice:-)
It's good to have the bulk of the site in a forum idiom - users can find their way around current stuff. But I see this sort of thing as rather impenetrable for someone trying to find out some general info about the club without actually wanting to get engaged in the forum. Perhaps a few static pages alongside might help?
Thanks for the input
Oh - and are you doing something with UA strings? The first page I got was quite odd; that usually happens when a site has mis-identified my browser as a phone...
Vic.
Sounds technical :D . Beyond my understanding to be honest, can yo ugive it to me in English:D , so I can ask the IT bod!
One of the things I do like about the forum, is that even an IT idiot like me can use it, Add files & change content (not function or layout - beyond my ability).
One thing the forum has done is improve the communication within the branch significantly. We still send out emails to 'gee' people up, point out events etc, but what it has allowed us to do links to specifics on the forum.
Gareth
SMF, too. Good choice:-)
Hmm well I thought so until last month. Lets hope that after the infighting finishes that SMF continues at least until the the defectors produce a replacement
It's good to have the bulk of the site in a forum idiom - users can find their way around current stuff. But I see this sort of thing as rather impenetrable for someone trying to find out some general info about the club without actually wanting to get engaged in the forum. Perhaps a few static pages alongside might help?
If you go to the main forum url http://www.sisac.co.uk/forum you should see a centre frame(couldnt be arsed to do it properly) that contains the static information from our old website. This frame has its own menu bar allowing navigation to other static info.
When you say static pages alongside do you mean in the columns on the left and right? There isnt actually much room in these. Given the luddites in the club consider a 800 by 600 resolution screen a cutting edge we have to be careful about how much stuff we stick on one screen.
Oh - and are you doing something with UA strings? The first page I got was quite odd; that usually happens when a site has mis-identified my browser as a phone...
Vic.
We do within the limits of the way in which SMF handles UA string internally. We use a specific theme for IPhones and another for most other mobile devices base off the default theme. Blackberries fal through because of the way the core code in SMF deals with UA string. However unless you've spoofed the UA info for your browser I think you might have ended up on one of the "old" static pages. These are still there showing the club logo for a couple of seconds and then redirecting to www.sisac.co.uk/forum . This was to allow links from external sites to still show some meaningful content and to annoy Gareth because he the delay is just long enough to have him banging his (ball) mouse on the desk.
On which note Gareth Pool Marshal List!!!!
If you have an active club they will look on the club website, or they will use a forum like YD, SWM, BSAC or FS as most divers use them to find out whats happening. Sites like YD are so popular they get the most traffic.
Andy (treerat)
13-02-2010, 08:28
I built a site using Front Page - very simple to do but restricted to static site, free host on Web design and pushed it up, changed the odd thing now and again and use it as an advert.
http://budediveclub.webs.com/
One of our members took the site, hosted it elsewhere and built in a members area, forum and interactive bits.
www.Budediveclub.co.uk
A better site for us to use, global mailing lists etc but needed some one with a bit of knowledge to do it it was straight forward though as te hard work had been done creating the original site.
If needbe there are a couple of small compnies abou that do this sort of thing for you. DCCS is on that I've used for years in my Lifeguard life.
http://www.dccs.co.uk/
Dave is great and does bits of work for you as required.
We've now gone with facebook as well, not to replace the members area of teh web site as nt all members will use it but as another tool to help all mmbers stay together - it opens up life chat, instant messages to all, picture uploads etc.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=294957668513&ref=ts
However it has to work for what you want it to, no matter which method you go for your members need to be in a position to understand, respond and understand why you are going that way.
Ben Panter
13-02-2010, 10:14
Hi Vic,
Did a search - thank you for bringing that thread to my attention, I'd not seen it.
If you or someone else did happen to find time to finish the project off and it worked on a representative sample of platforms (I'm afraid at least one of which would have to be M$, sorry) I would be happy to do what was within my power as an individual council member to challenge and remove the stipulation that decompression software was proprietary.
Overall choice of what code is used or recommended is down to the team writing the course which, as a safety matter and one which I do not have the experience to contribute to, I as a council member should have no influence over - but the 'proprietary' issue relates to percieved liability and costings, which is more a financial topic and hence is (probably - but I would have to check) in the remit of council.
This should not be taken as any sort of criticsm of the team writing the course, it's an attempt to bring what I suspect both parties actually want to fruitition.
Ben
(A long time dabbler with DDPlan)
I'm afraid at least one of which would have to be M$, sorry[/QUOTE[
That's why I chose GTK; it's a simple task to get it working on Windows, Linux, and Mac.
[QUOTE=Ben Panter]I would be happy to do what was within my power as an individual council member to challenge and remove the stipulation that decompression software was proprietary.
That would be a good thing to do - but it makes no difference to me now.
but the 'proprietary' issue relates to percieved liability and costings, which is more a financial topic and hence is (probably - but I would have to check) in the remit of council.
But note - and this is the important bit - that any liability or warranty issues are *only* "perceived"; "proprietary" speaks to ownership, not quality or support. The given reasons for the restriction are based upon an incorrect understanding of the meaning of that word. Note that two EU Commissioners (Viviane Reding and Meglena Kuneva) have been trying to have product liability legislation extended to cover software - but to date, this has not become law, and I do not expect it to be so in the forseeable future. I'm not sure that "proprietary" would make any difference if were to become law, either.
This should not be taken as any sort of criticsm of the team writing the course, it's an attempt to bring what I suspect both parties actually want to fruitition.
Indeed. But for that to occur, you need dialogue, not dogma.
(A long time dabbler with DDPlan)
Likewise.
Vic.
bootneck
13-02-2010, 13:45
We run our site on a free hosting site with online site CMS which allows us to post very easily and run a small forum so members can post.
http://hebrideandivers.webs.com/
Dave Lev
13-02-2010, 14:14
I would be happy to do what was within my power as an individual council member to challenge and remove the stipulation that decompression software was proprietary.
Regardless of the status of any particular project, you should do this anyway, imho. :)
If you or someone else did happen to find time to finish the project off and it worked on a representative sample of platforms (I'm afraid at least one of which would have to be M$, sorry) I would be happy to do what was within my power as an individual council member to challenge and remove the stipulation that decompression software was proprietary.Hmmmmm. Effectively you are asking someone to engage in 100s of hours of software development, free of charge, on the off chance it might be accepted. I can not speak for Vic, but personally I would want at least an agreement in principle before attempting to take a proof of concept to general release. The final 10% is usually the most difficult when it comes to getting any application released.
Overall choice of what code is used or recommended is down to the team writing the course which, as a safety matter and one which I do not have the experience to contribute to, I as a council member should have no influence over The proposition is a deco planner based on Eric Baker's GF model, the same model used in the majority of PC based deco planners and the Vision electronics. Either the model is acceptable to whoever is responsible for making that decision, or it isn't. There can be a multitude of reasons to abandon such a project at a later stage, but this decision can (and should) be resolved before committing to meaningful work on an application.
Hmmmmm. Effectively you are asking someone to engage in 100s of hours of software development, free of charge, on the off chance it might be accepted. I can not speak for Vic, but personally I would want at least an agreement in principle before attempting to take a proof of concept to general release.
Your point is well made - but in this instance. I was indeed planning on completing the project on the off-chance that it might be accepted. I had other reasons for writing the bulk of the application, so this wasn't purely some altruistic gesture; I wanted a real application to try out some GUI tools.
What stopped me wasn't the fact that my code might not be accepted - it was that BSAC went out of its way to prevent my app being accepted, despite there being absolutely no advantage whatsoever to be gained from such a restriction. Sadly, this seems endemic at present - TPTB keep coming up with prohibitions of various aspects of diving. This does not tally well with the organisation's Aims and Objectives:
"to promote underwater sport, exploration, science and related studies, to promote safety in these activities and by co-operation with other organisations with related objects to provide the widest exchange of knowledge and experience therein, and by setting and maintaining the highest standards to sustain recognition as the governing body for all such amateur activity".
The proposition is a deco planner based on Eric Baker's GF model
Heh. You know me too well :-)
the same model used in the majority of PC based deco planners and the Vision electronics. Either the model is acceptable to whoever is responsible for making that decision, or it isn't.
Moreover, I find it amazing that someone should choose to reject such a model whilst simultaneously accepting a model that is completely unknown - after all, the single criterion for whether or not a package is acceptable is not its success in planning dives, but whether or not someone lays claim to ownership of it. So if I wrote a super-sekrit deco algorithm that said "2 minutes at 3m for any dive, regardless of depth and duration", that would pass the "proprietary" requirement, but if I accurately coded Buhlmann/GF, it wouldn't...
Vic.
Ben Panter
14-02-2010, 20:01
Fair comment Matt.
However, in this case I think, but could definitely have missed a fine point, that Vic is no longer interested in making such a contribution whether or not BSAC changes its policy. Which is fair enough.
I'm a pragmatist, and if I thought there was a useful outcome to come I would invest the political capital and considerable effort (and yes, it would require hours of time and diplomacy but admittedly not as much as it would take to properly develop a dive planning solution) to try and push it through.
As it is I've got a fair bit on my plate at the moment, both in work and this supposed 'pleasure'. Sadly I have to make hard choices when investing what time I have available for BSAC, and things that have a clearer, and more urgent, benefit tend to win.
Ben
Andy Moll (BSAC Council)
15-02-2010, 10:23
The question is how do other clubs manage their websites, is it through club members or do they use website management companies?
If you are using companies who are the good guy ?
Thanks
Phil.
Hi Phil in answer to you original question, this sort of query is exactly why the new .com site has the provision to host club site with a similar look and feel that you have full update ability over, and more importantly does not require any clever technical whizzes in your club to maintain them that is done by BSAC.
There are limitations in how wild and innovative you can be, but the idea is to allow you a guaranteed site that any member of your club can add pages should you so wish to allow them to
Take a look here at one example. http://bsac.com/lowestoftscuba
If you are interested in more details and information please contact Chris Horan at HQ
Hi Phil in answer to you original question, this sort of query is exactly why the new .com site has the provision to host club site with a similar look and feel that you have full update ability over, and more importantly does not require any clever technical whizzes in your club to maintain them that is done by BSAC.
There are limitations in how wild and innovative you can be, but the idea is to allow you a guaranteed site that any member of your club can add pages should you so wish to allow them to
Take a look here at one example. http://bsac.com/lowestoftscuba
If you are interested in more details and information please contact Chris Horan at HQ
Great feature :)
I didn't know that was available. Thanks for that.
Darren
Andy Moll (BSAC Council)
15-02-2010, 12:17
sounds like we need a reminder about it to go out in e talk
Phil Darlington
15-02-2010, 19:04
Andy,
Thanks for the info, I could be exactly what we’re looking for.
I think your right in pushing a feature on it. We’ve been kicking this around a fairly large club for a few months and nobody mentioned it.
Cheers
Phil.
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