Forum Moderation/Policy

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Dear Members

In some recent threads relating to the facilities at Swanage Pier I have acted to remove some potentially libellous comments that have been posted. I have kept full records of my actions, Council has also been informed that I have actively moderated these threads.

My concern is with unsubstantiated third party/hearsay allegations that have been made. Such comment is not acceptable on these forums as the club itself could potentially be held liable should the individuals/organisations concerned deem such comments to be libellous. I will not allow such comments on these forums, they will be removed.

However - first hand, factual information and comments that people are prepared to put their name to and back up ARE acceptable. I have always considered such contributions as valid and as relevant information to our members and to other divers. I will fully support anybodies right to post such factual information.

So please, appreciate my and the clubs position in such things. Comments on substantiated fact will always be welcome, third party hearsay will not be welcome. That is my policy until instructed by Council otherwise.

Kind Regards

Keith Lawrence
BSAC Council Member
BSAC Forum Moderator

[Finless]

Keith,

I would like to ask if there IS any liability to BSAC on an "open forum" from comments posted by members who may not even be BSAC divers (as I am not).

Would a disclaimer to the effect that "the views posted on the forum are opinions of the members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of BSAC" be sufficient to prevent any chance of a libel action. Doubtless official BSAC representatives would need to be a bit more cautious with their posts.

Surely the part of the purpose of a forum is the exchange of information and opinion whilst sometimes just "chatting" about a subject. The recounting of "I heard someone say ...." etc is part of using a forum and I am sure all users are aware of this.
After all, the "offended party" is free to respond to any comments.

Rgds
Bryan

[PeteM]

I would like to ask if there IS any liability to BSAC on an "open forum" from comments posted by members who may not even be BSAC divers (as I am not).


Yes there is liability, see
<a href="http://www.netfreedom.org/news.asp?item=114" >http://www.netfreedom.org/news.asp?item=114</a>

These fora would not even have the defence that Demon had of just picking up info from elsewhere as everything happens on BSAC hardware

Regretable as it is sometimes it is necessary to remove posts to protect the club and Keith

P

[Finless]

Pete,

Tks v/much for the info/reply/link - very informative and quite worrying really.

Whatever happened to FREE SPEECH?

Bryan

[PeteM]

Whatever happened to FREE SPEECH?

There is no legal right to free speech in the UK, we have a tradition of it but that has no legal basis.

Then get into some interesting ethical arguments. What is more important free speech or the right of privacy and not to have lies told about you? Where do you draw the line?

On here KL will normally allow someone to say "I saw X" even if it is inflamatory because the person in question has just reported what they have seen, what you can not do is allow heresay, i.e. "My mate said he saw X".

One big problem with issues like this is they tend to be comlpex and expensive to sort out - my law lecture put it like this: it is like two farmers having a dispute over a cow, one has it by the horns and is pulling for all they are worth, the other has it by the tail and is pulling away. And in the middle we have the lawyers milking it for all its got.

[Adrian Kelland]

Whatever happened to FREE SPEECH?

We never had it.

[Finless]

:=Whatever happened to FREE SPEECH?

There is no legal right to free speech in the UK, we have a tradition of it but that has no legal basis.

Then get into some interesting ethical arguments. What is more important free speech or the right of privacy and not to have lies told about you? Where do you draw the line?

On here KL will normally allow someone to say "I saw X" even if it is inflamatory because the person in question has just reported what they have seen, what you can not do is allow heresay, i.e. "My mate said he saw X".

One big problem with issues like this is they tend to be comlpex and expensive to sort out - my law lecture put it like this: it is like two farmers having a dispute over a cow, one has it by the horns and is pulling for all they are worth, the other has it by the tail and is pulling away. And in the middle we have the lawyers milking it for all its got.


LOL.

I have always thought that outright lies are likely to be "issued" from an individual, and, the "outright indignation" is more likely to come from a group - in relation to this point of posting on a forum.

Perhaps I would draw the line at "my mate heard from another mate who said ...." but allow "my mate said ..."

There is no doubt this is a difficult subject. I just do not think it right for the FORUM owners to be held responsible for what members say on an open access forum.

[Nigel Hewitt]

Perhaps I would draw the line at "my mate heard from another mate who said ...." but allow "my mate said ..."

I suppose the problem is that truth is not proof.

If I were to post "Keith Lawrence steals sweets from children" he would have cause to complain because I just made it up. With his moderator hat on he might have to remove the post to prevent him having to sue BSAC to get this defamatory statement removed because I sure won't take it down.

However if I posted "Keith Lawence snores like a sawmill on a productivity bonus" he hasn't got a leg to stand on as he knows I can produce copious witnesses who have been on dive trips with him. Admittedly the British Confederation of Sawmill Owners could object that they meet enviromental standards so it might have to go anyway.

nigelH

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

However if I posted "Keith Lawence snores like a sawmill on a productivity bonus" he hasn't got a leg to stand on as he knows I can produce copious witnesses who have been on dive trips with him. Admittedly the British Confederation of Sawmill Owners could object that they meet enviromental standards so it might have to go anyway.

How dare you post such a terrible accusation! Unfortunately the wife has just read it, agrees with you fully, and supports your right to post such truthful and factual information. Sheesh... sometimes the truth hurts... ;-)

Keith L

[gordon henderson]

:=I would like to ask if there IS any liability to BSAC on an "open forum" from comments posted by members who may not even be BSAC divers (as I am not).
:=

Yes there is liability, see
http://www.netfreedom.org/news.asp?item=114

These fora would not even have the defence that Demon had of just picking up info from elsewhere as everything happens on BSAC hardware

Regretable as it is sometimes it is necessary to remove posts to protect the club and Keith

Late reply to this thread, as I don't read this place offten..

I've had the full text of the Demon vs. Godfrey case sent to me by a lawyer representing a dive outfit/owner because of potentially libelous material posted on the Scuba-UK and Inspiration lists by a list member. I was instructed by his lawyers to remove 2 posts or they would sue me, even though I didn't make the posts.

(The posts were actually made as a joke and it seems everyone but this one person saw the funny side to it. Ho hum)

Unlike the US, There is no notion of "common carrier" in this country where the Internet is concerned. If someone posts something libelous on one of my lists, then I'm potentially as guilty as the poster. The same goes for any of the BSAC forums, or any other forums based in this country.

So after taking legal advice, I removed those 2 posts. And every other post I had in all my archives which mentioned his name or the name of his company or the name of anyone else connected to his outfit, regardless of who the poster was. I also put in-place automatic blocks, and other mechanisms, on any post that ever mentions his name or his company on my systems. As far as I'm concerned, I have erased him from my system and thats the way it's going to stay.

We have no freedom of speech here. He who is the biggest bully with the biggest wallet wins.

Gordon

[Will Swift]

Whatever happened to FREE SPEECH?

Try going into an airport and shouting 'I've got a bomb'

Should everyone be allowed to freely say what they want?

[Finless]

Gordon,

A very interesting, if not disturbing, reply.

One would hope that common sense would prevail in these situations, but, I guess, common sense appears to be subjective so I won't count on it.

Hope you don't mind, I have C&Pd your reply to YD as it has bearing on a debate there.

If any problems with that then pls let me know (leave reply hear) and I will delete my post immediately.

Tks
Bryan

[gordon henderson]

Gordon,

A very interesting, if not disturbing, reply.

One would hope that common sense would prevail in these situations, but, I guess, common sense appears to be subjective so I won't count on it.

Hope you don't mind, I have C&Pd your reply to YD as it has bearing on a debate there.

If any problems with that then pls let me know (leave reply hear) and I will delete my post immediately.

Copying my posts without my premission beforehand is a breach of my copyright (and probably the copyright of the BSAC who own this board)

Whats YD ?

Gordon