Rudyard Kipling

[Eddie Clamp]

I have suddenly realised that I have been carried away with my enjoyment of contributing to the BSAC after sitting on the sidelines for more years than I can shake a stick at :rolleyes: I am in danger of becoming a little verbose.

I offer this ode to all those BSAC members who may believe they are greater than the whole. ;)

I shall be entering quiet mode for sometime now. :D

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too:
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream---and not make dreams your master;
If you can think---and not make thoughts your aim,
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same:.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build'em up with worn-out tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings,
And never breathe a word about your loss:
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And---which is more---you'll be a Man, my son!


:o

[barrygoss]

:D ok eddie and following the Kipling theme:

Everyone is more or less mad on one point :RK

or personally more enjoyable:

It's clever, but is it Art? :RK

:-P

B

[Ed Howarth]

And who says that you are *too* verbose!

Not me. :)

Ed

[Eddie Clamp]

And who says that you are *too* verbose!
Ed
Me :D

[Nigel Hewitt]

Do you like Kipling?

Can't say I've ever kipled.

[Eddie Clamp]

Do you like Kipling?

Can't say I've ever kipled.

Never kipled, prefer Kippers, but they keep repeating, like some on here :rolleyes:

:p

[barrygoss]

Ahh Rolls eyes sarcasm,

now that Kipling did enjoy:

He wrapped himself in quotations - as a beggar would enfold himself in the purple of Emperors

:-P

B

Shall we dance? :D

[Garf]

hahahhaa ROFL

"If" is Kipling's study in Victorian stoicism. Stoicism, need I remind you, is the belief that displaying emotions after making mistakes was an error and the resulting feelings benefited no-one.

Oh My God my irony gland just exploded.

[Janos]

Stoicism, need I remind you, is the belief that displaying emotions after making mistakes was an error

That's not my understanding of stoicism. :confused: Although it has been a while.

Janos

[Eddie Clamp]

hahahhaa ROFL
"If" is Kipling's study in Victorian stoicism. Stoicism, need I remind you, is the belief that displaying emotions after making mistakes was an error and the resulting feelings benefited no-one.
Oh My God my irony gland just exploded.

Waxing lyrical: "If" by Rudyard Kipling is a poem which offers instruction in leadership skills. It is written in iambic pentameter, and is broken up into four stanzas with a rhyme scheme of abab cd cd. In the poem, the speaker suggests certain qualities that the speaker of the poem should emulate. The speaker not only points out the specific qualities, but also provides examples of each kind of behavior.

The speaker also warns the audience of possible obstacles, or the danger of taking some qualities to the extreme. For example, "If you can dream- and not make dreams your master" suggests that these traits must be acquired, but not practiced in excess. In this same line, it is also implied that doing is better than dreaming. One must not only dream, but act as well.

The last line reveals what acquiring all of these qualities will achieve. The audience can achieve manhood. This suggests that the poem is intended solely for boys. The poem was written in the late 1800's and most likely reflects the popular notion of the time that men were leaders and women were not.

Black cat that one my lad! :D

[barrygoss]

Kipling is said to have written the poem 'If' with Dr Leander Starr Jameson in mind, who led about five-hundred of his countrymen in a failed raid against the Boers, in southern Africa. The 'Jameson Raid' was later considered a major factor in starting the Boer War

:D Irony gland went bang long ago :D

B

We're not dancing yet :-)

[bythesea]

Its a poem, it means what ever you want it to...That's art for you...99% interpretation

[Howard Payne]

Went past Kipling's house in Rottingdean the other day
He sold out with the whole cake thing if you ask me...

[barrygoss]

PMSL

:D

B

[SoggyBottoms]

Went past Kipling's house in Rottingdean the other day
He sold out with the whole cake thing if you ask me...

roflcopter :) :)

[MattS]

Waxing lyrical: [I]"If" by Rudyard Kipling is a poem which offers instruction in leadership skills."

Perhaps our leaders should focus their attention on this excerpt.

"If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings---nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much:"

:)

[Garf]

Waxing lyrical: "If" by Rudyard Kipling is a poem which offers instruction in leadership skills. It is written in iambic pentameter, and is broken up into four stanzas with a rhyme scheme of abab cd cd. In the poem, the speaker suggests certain qualities that the speaker of the poem should emulate. The speaker not only points out the specific qualities, but also provides examples of each kind of behavior.

The speaker also warns the audience of possible obstacles, or the danger of taking some qualities to the extreme. For example, "If you can dream- and not make dreams your master" suggests that these traits must be acquired, but not practiced in excess. In this same line, it is also implied that doing is better than dreaming. One must not only dream, but act as well.

The last line reveals what acquiring all of these qualities will achieve. The audience can achieve manhood. This suggests that the poem is intended solely for boys. The poem was written in the late 1800's and most likely reflects the popular notion of the time that men were leaders and women were not.

Black cat that one my lad! :D

It's customary to quote from a source when you nick someone else's analysis. In this case your post is word perfect from enotes.

there is more to that poem than one website might inform you, however. It is a result of the times in which it was written, steeped in Victorian values (remaining upright in the face of adversity etc) but also in stoicism (keeping that British stiff upper lip even whilst the empire crumbles). The poem has little to do with respecting the status quo or understanding one's small part in a larger role, as your initial post suggests. It has everything to do with individual achievement and leadership. It is a study in the skills and mindset needed to be a great leader and to achieve one's individual best. This is why it has been adopted by so many schools as their in house poem, and also indeed by several elite armed forces around the world. Rumour has it that even the SAS, for a while, would use the poem with the line "and what's more, you'll be SAS my son" as it's conclusion. So as an example of how one should understand ones role in the greater scheme and not get above one's station, it's probably the worst poem in the last several hundred years you could have chosen. It serves much better, as others have pointed, as a message to the BSAC leadership than it's members, or as a message of inspiration to those who are fighting what they see as being wrong to not give up.

[Eddie Clamp]

It's customary to quote from a source when you nick someone else's analysis. In this case your post is word perfect from enotes.

there is more to that poem than one website might inform you, however. It is a result of the times in which it was written, steeped in Victorian values (remaining upright in the face of adversity etc) but also in stoicism (keeping that British stiff upper lip even whilst the empire crumbles). The poem has little to do with respecting the status quo or understanding one's small part in a larger role, as your initial post suggests. It has everything to do with individual achievement and leadership. It is a study in the skills and mindset needed to be a great leader and to achieve one's individual best. This is why it has been adopted by so many schools as their in house poem, and also indeed by several elite armed forces around the world. Rumour has it that even the SAS, for a while, would use the poem with the line "and what's more, you'll be SAS my son" as it's conclusion. So as an example of how one should understand ones role in the greater scheme and not get above one's station, it's probably the worst poem in the last several hundred years you could have chosen. It serves much better, as others have pointed, as a message to the BSAC leadership than it's members, or as a message of inspiration to those who are fighting what they see as being wrong to not give up.

Cheers Prof

You are quite right I did nick the quote and could be had up for plagiarism :eek:

I feel you have black catted me well. I shall now go away and hide in a dark, warm place :o ;)

[Maria CM]

And who says that you are *too* verbose!

Not me. :)

Ed

Nor me:)

best wishes,

Maria

[barrygoss]

Cheers Prof

You are quite right I did nick the quote and could be had up for plagiarism :eek:

I feel you have black catted me well. I shall now go away and hide in a dark, warm place :o ;)

Eddie,

Big respect for that.

Kind Regards,

Barry Goss

[Garf]

Cheers Prof

You are quite right I did nick the quote and could be had up for plagiarism :eek:

I feel you have black catted me well. I shall now go away and hide in a dark, warm place :o ;)

My apologies Eddie, didn't mean to "black cat" you. Frankly I was showing off that I studied the poem at University, and should have known better.

G

[Eddie Clamp]

My apologies Eddie, didn't mean to "black cat" you. Frankly I was showing off that I studied the poem at University, and should have known better.

G

No apologies required. I studied Linguistics at Uni and look at where it has got me :p