Hello divefish.co.uk

[divefish]

Hello everyone,

I have just put together a website of all my diving photos. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I would welcome any feedback

url deleted

:cool:

Enjoy
Andrew

[Fiona]

Andy you aren't going to be too popular starting multiple threads with the same content.

[bythesea]

It is just like deja vu all over again, and I still know nothing about devilfish or what it is....

[divefish]

I'm sorry, I was not sure where to post it really. I have spent quite a bit of time putting this website together and was keen to share my underwater experiences and allow people to have a look. I do not gain anything from it, just would be glad to hear peoples feedback.

[bythesea]

Hi, so, where do you dive, are you with a club, how long have you been diving, what dive do you most want to do, what size fins do you wear, do you believe a man has a right to hog loop if he so wants and to pass that knowledge on?

Answer as many or as few of these questions as you like ;)


Nice pics BTW

[Eddie Clamp]

Hello everyone,

I have just put together a website of all my diving photos. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I would welcome any feedback

url deleted

:cool:

Enjoy
Andrew

Welcome and let us all know more about yourself. :)

[divefish]

sorry should of said this upfrount, although it is on my about page on the website. I have been diving over 4 years, i am a PADI (please refrain from booing) advanced level, have done about 50 dives. I really got into the underwater photography, and feel i have taken some great pictures. I am a Software architect for a living and know how to create websites like the back of my hand, so I thought I'd stick something together. I went to the Similian Islands in Thailand last year and also th red sea. Brillant. I was also lucky enough to see a whale shark! photos on the Egypt gallery.

What you think.

[MattS]

I sense a disturbance in the moderator's force.

Is it the cross posting?
Is it the web site advert masquerading as a user id?
No, I do believe it's both!

Welcome to the BSAC forums Andrew. You don't need to apologise for being a PADI diver, but you are still bound by the Acceptable Use Policy, linked at the bottom of the page.

If you would like to let me know by Personal Message which of your identical posts you would like to be left in place, the moderators will arrange for the others to be deleted. Also, feel free to select a suitable user name, we like real names, tolerate handles, but do not allow URLs. You may add your web site address to a signature, as explained in the AUP.

[bythesea]

I sense a disturbance in the moderator's force.

Is it the cross posting?
Is it the web site advert masquerading as a user id?
No, I do believe it's both!

.

Why? He is not selling anything or charging people to view the pix and doing it this way means the pictures are not taking up space on BSACs servers.

[Nigel Hewitt]

Why? He is not selling anything...
Yes he is.
Didn't you read the site???

[bythesea]

Yes he is.
Didn't you read the site???

No. I looked at the pretty pictures of the whale shark, it didn't cost me a penny

[divefish]

i have over the last year or so, really got into underwater photography. I have bought a new camera and housing and have been lucky enough to visit some good places lately. I was so pleased with some of my photos i wanted to share them with everyone, so i created this site. If someone wants to buy some then they can, but it does not cost anything to look at them. I think you guys are being a bit mean here. Thanks to ByTheSea for fighting my case. I would hope you would enjoy looking at them, and I would love to hear what you all think about them.

Andrew

[Roz]

Andrew

It's a reasonably clean attractive site and it must have taken a slug of time and effort to build it. If you're a member of a dive club why not ask them if they will link to your site? It's not an obvious "home build" and it does show typical diving in the UK and abroad, and in that instance it's quite useful.

We all have to start somewhere, and it's good to see someone enthusiastic about their diving and their photography. But you're basically making your holiday snaps available for purchase, and with the advent of digital photography a fair bunch of us have very similar images. When you are as good as Alex Mustard www.amustard.com, Gavin Newman www.gavinnewman.com or Gareth Lock www.imagesoflife.co.uk then I'd have a "for sale" section.

You are obviously passionate about underwater photography. I don't know if the British Society of Underwater Photographers www.bsoup.org are exhibiting at the London International Dive Show, they normally are. Why don't you go and have a natter with them?

HTH.

[Eddie Clamp]

Andrew

It's a reasonably clean attractive site and it must have taken a slug of time and effort to build it. If you're a member of a dive club why not ask them if they will link to your site? It's not an obvious "home build" and it does show typical diving in the UK and abroad, and in that instance it's quite useful.

We all have to start somewhere, and it's good to see someone enthusiastic about their diving and their photography. But you're basically making your holiday snaps available for purchase, and with the advent of digital photography a fair bunch of us have very similar images. When you are as good as Alex Mustard www.amustard.com, Gavin Newman www.gavinnewman.com or Gareth Lock www.imagesoflife.co.uk then I'd have a "for sale" section.
HTH.

Roz

A very positive post that managed to get in plugs for Bsoup phots. Can't be bad :D

[MikeTonge]

Yes he is.
Didn't you read the site???

Agreed. He's got prints of all the photos available for sale through one of the pages.

[bythesea]

Burn him!!!!!!


Good god people...what ever happen to encouragement...


This is what I mean Eddie, so welcoming....

[MattS]

Burn him!!!!!!That would be an over reaction :)

To answer your earlier question
Why?
1. This is the biggie. The behaviour is outside what is stated in the AUP. I can guarantee to you that we never moderate posts that are within the terms of the AUP.

2. It sets a precedent. If we allow one legitimate instance, the moderators give themselves the burden of explaining to spammers in future why one person is allowed to do it and they are not.

3. The attention of multiple moderators has been drawn to it. Andrew may have acted in all innocence, but he has exhibited the same behaviour the moderators associate with spamming.

On a personal note, I would think that if Andrew plans to make the internet his living, it would be beneficial for him to understand the basics of forum etiquette.

Good god people...what ever happen to encouragement...Strangely enough, the moderators do not encourage use of the forums as a free advertising or web site promotion channel, and make no apology for that. Unfortunately Andrew's first postings have the hallmarks of an SEO exploit, which the moderators are obliged (by the AUP) to actively discourage.

I sincerely hope Andrew sticks around and participates in the forum, in good faith. For the sake of tolerance and compromise, The BSAC allow participants to discreetly advertise diving related products and services (one of my personal contributions to the AUP). Stick to what is allowed and the moderators will have no reason to take an interest.

This is what I mean Eddie, so welcoming....I am not about to put the welcome mat down for a hoard of copy-cat spammers.

If you read the AUP you will see that the moderators of this board are obliged to prevent new participants being hounded by the regulars, as sometimes happens on other forums (Another of my personal contributions to the AUP). Divers able to behave in a a socially responsible way are indeed very welcome here.

[MattS]

I think you guys are being a bit mean here.It is not a question of being mean to you Andrew. We are mean to all spammers and make no apology for that. If you act like a spammer you will be treated like one.

We have provided methods for genuine participants to discreetly advertise diving related products and services. I am only asking that you limit yourself to those methods. Please let me know by PM what you wish your user name to be changed to within the next 24 hours, otherwise I will have to select one for you.

I sincerely hope that you will continue to participate in the forums as I would like to read about your underwater photography adventures.

[bythesea]

I am pretty sure after being harranged like he has he will find somewhere more welcoming to play..........

[MattS]

I am pretty sure after being harranged like he has he will find somewhere more welcoming to play..........I am pretty sure that if he introduces himself on other forums the way he introduced himself here, he will get similar attention.

How would you suggest we welcome Andrew without making the forum a free for all?

[ChristianG]

Yes he is.
Didn't you read the site???
Indeed.

What gets me is that this person claims to have done "about 50 dives" in four years which averages out to 1.04 dives per month. The website claims trips to the Similans - Thailand, the Red Sea - Evypt and the GBR - Australia.

All on about fifty dives?

[divefish]

This is all a bit childish, don't you think? I have posted a site on here to share mu underwater photos and have been accussed of spamming, spamming for what? can some one tell me please? Then in the last post i am as good as being accussed of lieing about how many dives I have done. This is crazy, I spent time putting this site together and hoped I could share it with everyone, rather than just me, my mum and my cat only ever seeing it. weird!

Andrew

URL deleted

[Vic]

I have posted a site on here to share mu underwater photos and have been accussed of spamming,

What did you expect?

All you've done here is to pimp your website. That's not polite.

To cap it all, your latest post repeats the same behaviour for which you have been slapped - and that's not a signature that you forgot to change, that's text you deliberately put into the post.

This is all the behaviour of a neophyte spammer. I hope the mods pull the thread post haste.


Vic.

[Maria CM]

Hello Divefish,

Very nice photos! Put mine to shame. Just out of interest, where did you like diving best? Did you do a photographic course?

Welcome to the forum:)

best wishes,

Maria

[divefish]

Thank you Maria, a reply which is not attacking me at last.

I most enjoyed the diving in Egypt. I did some great dives and saw many wonderful things, including a 7m whale shark. I also went to the Thistlegorm wreck. This was the first time I have entered a wreck like this and was pretty nervous, and it didn't help the boat was full of russians! I also enjoyed the Similians where I did a liveaboard, but I would put Egypt on top! I am glad you liked the photos, it is funny everyone here has been really rude and I am glad that someone has finally appreciated it. That is why I posted the link so thank you Maria. I am not a professional, but am keen to do a course this year and perhaps get an SLR down under the water.

Thanks

Andrew
(I would not dare put my photo website link, which does not earn me a penny, just gives me pleasure that other people enjoy my photography here again!)

[divefish]

Eddie has removed all links to the site, so no one else like Maria will be able to enjoy it. Thanks Eddie, you are a true gent!

[Vic]

I am a Software architect for a living and know how to create websites like the back of my hand

Did you create your work's site?

Not only is it monstrously broken, it can't even serve up the whole of the error page :-(

Vic.

[Maria CM]

Eddie has removed all links to the site, so no one else like Maria will be able to enjoy it. Thanks Eddie, you are a true gent!

By the way, Eddie and Edward are different people. You might be better asking to change your name to Divefish rather than Divefish.co.uk. I have a url in my profile page. I do sympathise because it doesn't look as though you are charging professional rates. I dare say if you had a link in your signature after having been on the forum for a while, nobody would think twice about it:)

best wishes,

maria

[divefish]

Thanks Maria,

Vic, do you want to explain yourself rather than just put silly comments


By the way, what have i ever done to you lot?

[Maria CM]

Thank you Maria, a reply which is not attacking me at last.

I most enjoyed the diving in Egypt. I did some great dives and saw many wonderful things, including a 7m whale shark. I also went to the Thistlegorm wreck. This was the first time I have entered a wreck like this and was pretty nervous, and it didn't help the boat was full of russians! I also enjoyed the Similians where I did a liveaboard, but I would put Egypt on top! I am glad you liked the photos, it is funny everyone here has been really rude and I am glad that someone has finally appreciated it. That is why I posted the link so thank you Maria. I am not a professional, but am keen to do a course this year and perhaps get an SLR down under the water.

Thanks

Andrew
(I would not dare put my photo website link, which does not earn me a penny, just gives me pleasure that other people enjoy my photography here again!)

Hi Andrew,

I'm glad you enjoyed the Red Sea best as I can't afford to go to the other places so am glad I am not missing out too much:D

Haven't seen a whale shark in the Red Sea, most jealous:) Though I did see mantas this year which was wonderful. Did you dive any of the other Red Sea wrecks whilst you were there?

best wishes,

Maria

[divefish]

No, that was the only wreck. I dived shark and yolanda reef twice, which has some what of a wreck with all the toilets. I thought there were more fish and ther viz was better in Egypt, than Thailand. I have never seen a Manta and would love to, we went just to early to Thailand, as had we gone a month later we may of seen them

[Vic]

Vic, do you want to explain yourself

Do you really want me to?

It involves mentioning the name of an insurance company; I'm sure they don't want to be associated with your behaviour here.

By the way, what have i ever done to you lot?

You are a spammer. This is not something that is appreciated.

You have the option of reforming and becoming part of the community; you hjave persistently declined todo so. So you'll continue to get treated as an unrepentant spammer.

Vic.

[divefish]

first off I don't work for an insurance company, and secondly why would I care if you said who I work for? Seriously why? I don't get it. Sorry and what am I spamming you with? Are all BSACs like this?

[Vic]

first off I don't work for an insurance company

Well, your posting at 10 to 6 came from a netblock leased to an insurance company in Brighton. And their site is hideously broken.

and secondly why would I care if you said who I work for?

Because that is personal information that you have not explicitly released into view. If you don't care about such information becoming public, then that is up to you - but it is polite to check such things first, so I did.

Sorry and what am I spamming you with?

Your URL. Many times. And if you think the cautions you've had from the moderators are empty, I think you're in for a shock pretty soon.

Are all BSACs like this?

All fora will be like this if you choose to spam them. You would do well to change your behaviour if you don't want to build up the sort of reputation that takes a while to live down. 1&1 are pretty good at dealing with spam reports (I've had many dealings with them over the years).

Vic.

[divefish]

So vic, being I have not posted my url for some time, are you still accusing me of spamming?

[Vic]

I have not posted my url for some time

You post your URL every time you make a post - because you insist on having it as your username, despite being asked by the moderators not to do so.

are you still accusing me of spamming?

Yes.

Vic.

[divefish]

I have informed the moderators of my new desired username but they have chosen not to change it yet!

[divefish]

I have my url in my signature, so do you! Nice site by the way

[wilbo]

Christ guys - give the lad a break.

Andrew - can I suggest that you either change your login id (and stop advertising your site) or find another site where you might be welcomed.

Petty guys - really petty.

[Maria CM]

No, that was the only wreck. I dived shark and yolanda reef twice, which has some what of a wreck with all the toilets. I thought there were more fish and ther viz was better in Egypt, than Thailand. I have never seen a Manta and would love to, we went just to early to Thailand, as had we gone a month later we may of seen them

Mantas I saw were a bit further south in Sudan but were fantastic. So did you get the photo of the dive guide sitting on one of the toilets on Yolande?

best wishes,

Maria

[divefish]

Hi Wilbo, I have instructed the moderators of my desired new username, I am waiting for them to change it. Cheers man

Maria, he didn't do a pose! it would of made a good shot thought!

[Maria CM]

Christ guys - give the lad a break.

Andrew - can I suggest that you either change your login id (and stop advertising your site) or find another site where you might be welcomed.

Petty guys - really petty.

I can only assume boredom is reigning :sigh:

best wishes,

Maria

[Hamish]

Andrew,

No one on here specifically posts to advertise a site where they are trading, i.e. they are selling something, that is exactly what you are doing, you are selling your photographs, or should I say trying to. So it is understandable that people class this as spamming.

So if you really want to use this forum to obtain information and not soley to advertise your wares then you will be welcomed and given all the help you require.

If not then I'm sure the mods will be along shortly to remove any trace of it.

regards

Hamish

[MattS]

This is all a bit childish, don't you think? I have posted a site on here to share mu underwater photos and have been accussed of spamming, spamming for what? can some one tell me please? Then in the last post i am as good as being accussed of lieing about how many dives I have done.Yes, yes, yes. You are obviously the victim in this. I guess we should all feel sorry for you because you are not going to be allowed to do whatever the Hell you like.

This is crazy, I spent time putting this site together and hoped I could share it with everyone, rather than just me, my mum and my cat only ever seeing it. weird!It takes many people (including Edward and Vic) many hours a week to keep these forums available. They volunteer their time for no reward, so people like you can come along and complain about them. Kewl.

Yes I guess that is what BSAC is like. Lots of people volunteering their time freely to run dving clubs, take people diving, teach people to dive and enjoying participation in a community. It is a shame it has to be marred by a minority that whine when they discover the World does not revolve around them.

What is crazy, is that no one is preventing your from promoting your site. You were politely asked to cooperate, but chose to waste your time and the moderators time arguing why you should not. Well I am sorry but I don't have any sympathy as I think you have been extremely selfish.

I will thank you for seeing sense and allowing the moderators to do their job. I will again inform you that you may advertise your site within your profile and within a signature which can be set within your profile. I will again welcome you to the BSAC forums and urge that you move on quickly and put this thread behind you.

[bythesea]

Petty guys - really petty.

And BSAC wonder why member numbers are down, with welcomes like this is it any wonder, there are many ways to educate people as to forum etiquette, here it seems they still prefer the stick method.

[MattS]

And BSAC wonder why member numbers are down, with welcomes like this is it any wonder, there are many ways to educate people as to forum etiquette, here it seems they still prefer the stick method.Again, how do you propose we do it without inviting copy cat spammers?

[bythesea]

Again, how do you propose we do it without inviting copy cat spammers?

He is not a spammer, maybe a bit dumb but not a spammer, If you can't tell the difference maybe its time to pass the torch and the way Vic spoke was so far off any scale of decency.

You are, I presume, the mods here, I am a member of BSAC so therefore you are representing me, I am not happy with the way I am being represented on this thread.

It should have been dealt with via PM instead if, vic in particular, slinging insults and accusations about, very unprofessional IMO



Follow this link to see how things can be done in a pleasant, warm and welcoming manner http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/introductions/103064-hello.html

[Ron MacRae]

He is not a spammer, maybe a bit dumb but not a spammer, If you can't tell the difference maybe its time to pass the torch and the way Vic spoke was so far off any scale of decency.

You are, I presume, the mods here, I am a member of BSAC so therefore you are representing me, I am not happy with the way I am being represented on this thread.

It should have been dealt with via PM instead if, vic in particular, slinging insults and accusations about, very unprofessional IMO


Follow this link to see how things can be done in a pleasant, warm and welcoming manner http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/introductions/103064-hello.html

I think you're right. Cut him some slack guys. Just a bit over enthusiastic. He's changed his name and seems to be trying to comply with the 'rules', whatever they are.:confused:

Ron.

[Hamish]

I think you're right. Cut him some slack guys. Just a bit over enthusiastic. He's changed his name and seems to be trying to comply with the 'rules', whatever they are.:confused:

Ron.

Hi Ron and Divefish,

The 'rules' as they may be called are available here http://www.bsac.com/page.asp?section=987&sectionTitle=Acceptable+Usage+Policy and there is also a link provided at the bottom of the main forum page under the heading of Acceptable Use and Privacy Statement.

Perhaps we should direct new forum members to this on application to join the forums, everyone would then be aware of what was acceptable or not. Only a thought.;)

regards

Hamish

[PeteM]

Perhaps we should direct new forum members to this on application to join the forums, everyone would then be aware of what was acceptable or not. Only a thought.;)

They are, Andrew choose to ignore them

[Gareth]

He is not a spammer, maybe a bit dumb but not a spammer, If you can't tell the difference maybe its time to pass the torch and the way Vic spoke was so far off any scale of decency.

You are, I presume, the mods here, I am a member of BSAC so therefore you are representing me, I am not happy with the way I am being represented on this thread.

It should have been dealt with via PM instead if, vic in particular, slinging insults and accusations about, very unprofessional IMO


Most people are unaware of the volume of spam that the moderates deal with. A lot of this is not visable because of the technical solutions that Matt, Adrian & Vic have put in place. Even with these solutions, the moderators have to clean up the spam that doesn't appear as well as that that does.

It wasn't so long ago that these forums where almost shutdown due to the volume of spam & the offense it was causing. These forums only continue due to the efforts of those that have volunterred to act as moderators.

The general level of politeness on these forums is as a direct result of the actions of the moderators.

The amount of time put in by those that do moderate the forums is quite considerable. The poster was asked to stop posting spam, a number of times, he continued to do so. In the inbetween the moderators where being asked to delete him as a spammer. So moderators have had to spend time discussing him and what action to take (the easiest being just to delete him), conversing with him, appologising to those that where complaining.
Overall, he was very lucky not to just be deleted when he continued to post spam after being asked to stop.

Gareth

[PeteM]

Follow this link to see how things can be done in a pleasant, warm and welcoming manner http://www.yorkshire-divers.com/forums/introductions/103064-hello.html

To be fair had he come on here not doing mutiple posts spraying his URL everywhere he probably would have got a similar welcome.

Do you really want the mods to allow anyone to post loads of posts that all look as if they are there with the sole purpose of generating traffic? When I was moderating I think my record for zapping was 30 posts

[bythesea]

To be fair had he come on here not doing mutiple posts spraying his URL everywhere he probably would have got a similar welcome.

Do you really want the mods to allow anyone to post loads of posts that all look as if they are there with the sole purpose of generating traffic? When I was moderating I think my record for zapping was 30 posts

If you read that thread on the other side you will see he did in fact put his URl on the first four posts, this was politely pointed out as not generally accepted, situation dealt with without it escalating to personal attack by one of the mods who, to be frank, should not be a mod if they cannot control themselves.

[PeteM]

If you read that thread on the other side you will see he did in fact put his URl on the first four posts, this was politely pointed out as not generally accepted, situation dealt with without it escalating to personal attack by one of the mods who, to be frank, should not be a mod if they cannot control themselves.

You missing the point that he posted the same thread lots of times, which is going to get peoples backs up. And just for the record Vic is not a Mod

[bythesea]

You missing the point that he posted the same thread lots of times, which is going to get peoples backs up. And just for the record Vic is not a Mod

So the guy doesn't understand forum etiquette, a carrot is better than a stick

If Vic is not a mod I hope the mods had a word about some of his aggressive posts on the thread and cautioned him/her. Surely personal attack contravenes
one or two of the regulations?

[Ron MacRae]

Pete,
Points well taken and I agree had he behaved here as he did on YD he might have got a better welcome. Can we drop it and put it down to experience?:)

Ron.

[Vic]

Surely personal attack contravenes one or two of the regulations?

If you manage to find this personal attack you keep going on about, you might have a point.

I merely called him a spammer. Because that is what he was.

He has now changed his approach - so the whole situation could easily go away were you not to keep banging on about it.

Vic.

[PeteM]

So the guy doesn't understand forum etiquette, a carrot is better than a stick

Yes it is but when do you draw the line? As I mentioned some times it gets stupid on here with the amount of spam the majority of which most people never see, I've been in situations where one person has posted 30 posts and where the spam has been appearing faster than I can physically delete it. A lot of this stuff seems innocuous at first.

What does some one have to do to switch from the personal message to educate group to ban them immediately group? What ever rules the mods apply will upset someone and people will disagree.

The only guide lines they can follow is the AUP which has been linked to recently. That states "A commercial advertisement will comprise any display or communication made for the purposes of obtaining pecuniary or other benefit", this guy is trying to sell through his web site so he falls under that criteria and the mods are cutting him some slack by not zapping all the posts and suggesting he puts the URL in his sig block.

If you think this has been badly handled then the appropriate course of action is the inform the council member in charge of the forums (Andy Moll).

Pete
(Retired Moderator)

[bythesea]

If you manage to find this personal attack you keep going on about, you might have a point.

I merely called him a spammer. Because that is what he was.

He has now changed his approach - so the whole situation could easily go away were you not to keep banging on about it.

Vic.


In your quotes you change his user name to Andrew the spammer, this I would class as bullying and personal insult, in some posts you insult his work on a website, turns out, he didn't work for the company, I really can't be bothered trawling through the posts, you were way out of line.

Maybe as a BSAC member, seeing the way BSAC is represented by people such as yourself on a world wide stage such as the internet I don't want the issue to go away, if I do, it will just happen with the next poor over enthusiastic fool who wanders into the place hoping to learn from like minded people. Given a chance the OP may have made some valuable contribution, now we will never know.

Some guy with a small site with some pics on it hoping maybe to make 3 quid from the odd picture here and there is not even on the same planet as a professional spammer, remember all the porn we used to get? This is nowhere near that now is it?

[Vic]

In your quotes you change his user name to Andrew the spammer

His name is Andrew, and he was spamming. Thus calling him "Andrew the Spammer"[1] is only factual.

this I would class as bullying and personal insult

It was neither.

in some posts you insult his work on a website

I did not. I said that the website was broken. And it is.

turns out, he didn't work for the company

He was posting from one of their IP addresses. Draw from that whichever conclusions you will.

I really can't be bothered trawling through the posts, you were way out of line.

And I think *you* were - and are - way out of line.

You have inferred some sort of nefarious purpose to my posts, when none was in evidence. If you choose to read with a neutral perspective instead, you'll see that I wasn't even harsh...

I don't want the issue to go away

I'm sure you don't. I'll not speak to motive without sufficient evidence.

Given a chance the OP may have made some valuable contribution

He *was* given a chance. He *chose* to ignore the reasonable requests made of him by the moderators.

Some guy with a small site with some pics on it hoping maybe to make 3 quid from the odd picture here and there is not even on the same planet as a professional spammer, remember all the porn we used to get? This is nowhere near that now is it?

There is a reason for that...

Vic.

[1] Strictly speaking, I called him "Andy the Spammer". But I can't imagine anyone would be twisted enough to try to infer anything from the change of "Andrew" to "Andy". Oh then again...

[bythesea]

read with a neutral perspective





I feel neither of us are able to do that as we are too involved.

[Nigel Hewitt]

I notice the gentleman concerned has the sense to stay out of this thread now.

Perhaps we let it drop. Sadly it will happen again.

I have a website in my sig. Sadly I can't think of anything to sell on it.
I don't even advertise my own company's products.
If I pop in a trailer for the Combro Mk5 Balistic Chronoscope I might have to hurry and get it finished.

[Edward]

... remember all the porn we used to get? This is nowhere near that now is it?

That's because we delete them before you see them. I've taken out 10-15 today so far

Edward

[bythesea]

That's because we delete them before you see them. I've taken out 10-15 today so far

Edward

And for that diligence I thank you, last year every time i came on there was another porn link, it got to the point where I had to ask HQ to do something about it. It was also one of the reasons I abandoned the site for some time.


I couldn't understand why out of the 6 forums I use this was the only one awash with porn, it is also the only one run by a world wide organisation who could have lost credibility over it.

[Maria CM]

OK - my last word on the subject is this...

The mods do a great job in sorting out spam for us all and trying to keep things on an even keel whilst allowing debate etc.

New people to this forum are probably well used to other forums which have less rules enforced generally and the etiquette is different.

Andrew has put together a website of photos that he is very pleased with, that he wanted to share. OK, he may have been a bit enthusiastic in his promotion of it, but I would not put him down as spam personally.

When it was suggested that he changed his name, he did. I am aware that he made an apology to someone that he had made an incorrect assumption about. I am, quite frankly amazed that after the abuse he got on his first postings that they remained rational.

Very few people read the rules, very few people avidly read terms and conditions generally. I really feel that this was all very unfriendly for no real reason. If people disapprove of a new persons postings, surely it would be better dealt with by getting a mod to gently advise the new person of the relevant rules, without the need for it to turn into a public lynching.

best wishes,

Maria

[PeteM]

Very few people read the rules, very few people avidly read terms and conditions generally. I really feel that this was all very unfriendly for no real reason. If people disapprove of a new persons postings, surely it would be better dealt with by getting a mod to gently advise the new person of the relevant rules, without the need for it to turn into a public lynching.

Maria, have a read of my earlier post to bythesea, it applies equally to this
http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=126739#post126739

[Maria CM]

When did you retire???:eek:

best wishes,

Maria

p.s. what I was getting at, is not what has been done, or not done, by the mods, but instead what has been done by forum participants. My point is that mods are the people to deal and if posters don't like the look of some postings why not flag it to a mod rather than upset someone for no good reason when they may be genuine, just not understanding this forums rules and etiquette. My point being, if it is a new potential participant why not just ignore it and flag to a mod so it can be dealt with quietly with minimal unpleasantness, rather than feeling the need to shoot them down as part of a a bullying gang.

[bythesea]

shoot them down as part of a a bullying gang.

My last word too..


I am glad I am not the only one who saw it this way....


TTFN

[Jed]

Introductions
If you want to say hello and say a bit about yourself, here's the place. Don't be shy.

Just be afraid. Very afraid:p

[PeteM]

When did you retire???:eek:

16th December

p.s. what I was getting at, is not what has been done, or not done, by the mods, but instead what has been done by forum participants. My point is that mods are the people to deal and if posters don't like the look of some postings why not flag it to a mod rather than upset someone for no good reason when they may be genuine, just not understanding this forums rules and etiquette. My point being, if it is a new potential participant why not just ignore it and flag to a mod so it can be dealt with quietly with minimal unpleasantness, rather than feeling the need to shoot them down as part of a a bullying gang.

You see it that way, I see it from the other side as some one who used to put two or three hours every day into moderating these forums, a significant proportion of that removing posts very similar to this one. I work on the principal of "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck".

No one has yet answered my question of where do you draw the line.

Everyone that is being accused of bullying has been involved at some stage in the anti spam war that is an on going problem on this and most other forums (a war that we were loosing a couple of years ago). You obvious see this as a case of bullying, I see someone who sprayed links to a commercial site all over the place, that was given friendly advice not to keep doing that by Fiona and bythesea, that was given reasonable advice on how he should conduct themselves by MattS which was jumped on, who despite this continued to spray the link and was hammered for it. Fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Maria CM]

16th December



You see it that way, I see it from the other side as some one who used to put two or three hours every day into moderating these forums, a significant proportion of that removing posts very similar to this one. I work on the principal of "if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck".

No one has yet answered my question of where do you draw the line.

Everyone that is being accused of bullying has been involved at some stage in the anti spam war that is an on going problem on this and most other forums (a war that we were loosing a couple of years ago). You obvious see this as a case of bullying, I see someone who sprayed links to a commercial site all over the place, that was given friendly advice not to keep doing that by Fiona and bythesea, that was given reasonable advice on how he should conduct themselves by MattS which was jumped on, who despite this continued to spray the link and was hammered for it. Fair enough everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Hi Pete,

I haven't named names on who I would consider to be bullying so you are interpreting that for me. My problem is that I consider there are a fair few people who are abrupt in the way they do things and can't just leave things to be dealt with nicely by a single person. They surround and intimidate and bay for blood. I really hope they have more social skills in 'real' life.

I would consider any polite person would not ignore that the person has said 'hello', ignore what they have actually said 'in conversation', not include a welcome, but just leap in with ' you are doing this wrong, nobody will be your friend if you do this, everyone will hate you, mend your ways or don't come back!'

The way things are done are very much key to how they are received and acted upon. If someone were to chat to Andrew-Divefish offline, I suspect it would be quite interesting who he took notice of, and who just got his back up that he didn't want to take any notice of, and, yes, I did suggest to him on PM that he stay off this thread as it wouldn't do him any good to try and fight his own corner.

New people are finding their way around a forum and a site they are unfamiliar with. Lots of people seem to forget this. They also speak to people in a way on here that if they were in a pub, would likely earn them a smack in the mouth.

With regards to your 'line', I'm not fond of lines personally, but I think the important thing is interpretation of intent. Harmless and good intent is very different to malicious intent.

best wishes,

Maria

[PeteM]

Fair enough Maria, I cannot be bothered to argue any more.

All I will say is try sitting on the other side of the fence spending hours every day fighting against people trying to use your and every other members forum for their own free advertising. I will guarantee your tolerance level will go down significantly.

[Maria CM]

Fair enough Maria, I cannot be bothered to argue any more.

All I will say is try sitting on the other side of the fence spending hours every day fighting against people trying to use your and every other members forum for their own free advertising. I will guarantee your tolerance level will go down significantly.

LOL - I offered but no-one wanted me:D

best wishes,

Maria

[Roz]

It's worth remembering when you post, that whilst you may think you have written a clear post, someone else can read it in a completely different way. Plus the internet has a long, long memory and your posts can be dug up from years before, re-read and chucked back at you.

Maria, you've raised the subject of bullying on this forum before. Whilst we do have some quite firm posting on here, nothing nasty, vindictive, mallicious, mob baying for blood, or public lynching etc is tolerated or posted. And believe me I'd be one of the first onto the Mods saying "do something, this is not right". (There is the odd bit of animated banter between certain members, but that's fine because they have an established relationship). As forums go, this is a remarkably kind polite forum. YD has a competely different feel to it, so does Rebreather World, ScubaBoard etc. Each forum has it's own personality. On this one we are fortunate that we have excellent mods, who do keep in the background to ensure, as much as possible, a balanced discussion/argument and hats off to them.

Whilst I can agree that there has been some strong words posted in this thread, I can also see where the established members were coming from. If someone blatantly ignores, "hey, this is how we behave on here", they get told how to behave. Likewise when new divers are perceived to be running too fast, the postings are right to the point, with no frills. The fairly senior divers on here have done the dives where they have discovered they are mortal and have buried friends who have died through diving. None of us want to to this again.

New members are very welcome here, but we expect a level of behaviour in their posts. If they don't comply, this forum self moderates.

[Maria CM]

It's worth remembering when you post, that whilst you may think you have written a clear post, someone else can read it in a completely different way. Plus the internet has a long, long memory and your posts can be dug up from years before, re-read and chucked back at you.

Maria, you've raised the subject of bullying on this forum before. Whilst we do have some quite firm posting on here, nothing nasty, vindictive, mallicious, mob baying for blood, or public lynching etc is tolerated or posted. And believe me I'd be one of the first onto the Mods saying "do something, this is not right". (There is the odd bit of animated banter between certain members, but that's fine because they have an established relationship). As forums go, this is a remarkably kind polite forum. YD has a competely different feel to it, so does Rebreather World, ScubaBoard etc. Each forum has it's own personality. On this one we are fortunate that we have excellent mods, who do keep in the background to ensure, as much as possible, a balanced discussion/argument and hats off to them.

Whilst I can agree that there has been some strong words posted in this thread, I can also see where the established members were coming from. If someone blatantly ignores, "hey, this is how we behave on here", they get told how to behave. Likewise when new divers are perceived to be running too fast, the postings are right to the point, with no frills. The fairly senior divers on here have done the dives where they have discovered they are mortal and have buried friends who have died through diving. None of us want to to this again.

New members are very welcome here, but we expect a level of behaviour in their posts. If they don't comply, this forum self moderates.

Hi Roz,

I am aware that you and I obviously see most things from very different angles.

I just wish that people would think what it is like, as a new person, on the forum to be on the receiving end of comments made. It is completely different kettle of fish if you have been using the forum for some time.

I use this forum because I like it and because most people on here are friendly and helpful. I like the fact that people on this forum generally observe good manners and don't mind a silly question. If they do mind, why don't they just ignore it?

You are obviously still smarting about my comments about Fishy. I stick by them I'm afraid. Encouragement under a mentor is all. Patronising people serves no purpose and merely encourages them to go off on their own, perhaps into folly, particularly when they are teenagers. I have lost friends that way, that would maybe still be here if they had been given reasoned and considered information, rather than stonewalled on things they felt they needed to know.

I may not be the most experienced person on this forum by any means and am obviously not 'an established member' and have never professed to be so, but I like to think that I consider peoples feelings.

The fact that I have not been diving for 20 years does not mean I haven't seen friends die either.

best wishes,

Maria

[ChristianG]

I am aware that you and I obviously see most things from very different angles.
Perhaps, but the angles are quite possibly a lot closer than you may think.

I just wish that people would think what it is like, as a new person, on the forum to be on the receiving end of comments made. It is completely different kettle of fish if you have been using the forum for some time.
A newbie is fine, a newbie who doesn't take well meant, and polite, advice to heart is not, simple as that.

I use this forum because I like it and because most people on here are friendly and helpful. I like the fact that people on this forum generally observe good manners and don't mind a silly question. If they do mind, why don't they just ignore it?
Because the moderators are there to make sure that people behave themselves? I've been on the end of their adjudication myself as John (Northern Diver) well knows. I learned my lesson then and I like to think that I have followed it ever since.

You are obviously still smarting about my comments about Fishy. I stick by them I'm afraid. Encouragement under a mentor is all. Patronising people serves no purpose and merely encourages them to go off on their own, perhaps into folly, particularly when they are teenagers. I have lost friends that way, that would maybe still be here if they had been given reasoned and considered information, rather than stonewalled on things they felt they needed to know.
NO! Andrew was politely, and then officially, warned off doing something that contravenes BSAC policy. He continued to do it and learned that consequences are a hard taskmaster.

I may not be the most experienced person on this forum by any means and am obviously not 'an established member' and have never professed to be so, but I like to think that I consider peoples feelings.
What about the feelings of those who dislike spam? Repeatedly you, and Andrew have been told that his website is on the nose, repeatedly Andrew has ignored the warnings.

The rules are there for everyone, no exceptions, as it should be.

The fact that I have not been diving for 20 years does not mean I haven't seen friends die either.
Unfortunately. :(

[Gareth]

You are obviously still smarting about my comments about Fishy. I stick by them I'm afraid. Encouragement under a mentor is all. Patronising people serves no purpose and merely encourages them to go off on their own, perhaps into folly, particularly when they are teenagers. I have lost friends that way, that would maybe still be here if they had been given reasoned and considered information, rather than stonewalled on things they felt they needed to know.


Maria

I don't think people where intending to be patronising. There is unfortunately a well worn path of people diving well outside there actual ability as against there believed ability. To add to this, the young have a great belief in there immortality. The mix of the two is not a good thing in diving.

Those who have been diving any length of time will inevitably done something extremely foolish in their diving career, normally very close to the start of it. If they say they haven't, I have a tendency to disbelieve them, & treat every following statement with a great deal of caution. Even the experienced are noted for doing very stupid things occasionally, complacency is generally the reason. The distinct advantage with those with some experience is that they normally have the experience to extract themselves from the brown smelly stuff, even if it does leave them looking like a prize turnip, the inexperienced often have to rely on luck under similar circumstances.

A thirst for knowledge is a great thing, the problem is that it often results in instant experts. A mix of knowledge & experience is of far more value.

What I do find personally frustrating, was that when I first learnt to dive I new everything there was to know about diving. After a little diving I seemed to know less about the subject.
When I first became an instructor it appeared that I once again I new a lot, but after a few years it seems I know less than when I started diving.
It is somewhat puzzling that the more I learn the less I know. All those certainties are replaced with more & more shades of grey.
I keep meeting people who know more than me but tell me they know less, rather like life:confused:

Gareth

[Maria CM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria CM
You are obviously still smarting about my comments about Fishy. I stick by them I'm afraid. Encouragement under a mentor is all. Patronising people serves no purpose and merely encourages them to go off on their own, perhaps into folly, particularly when they are teenagers. I have lost friends that way, that would maybe still be here if they had been given reasoned and considered information, rather than stonewalled on things they felt they needed to know.

You misunderstand Christian, Roz and I were referring not to Divefish here, but Fishy49 (or whatever number he is)
I may not be the most experienced person on this forum by any means and am obviously not 'an established member' and have never professed to be so, but I like to think that I consider peoples feelings.

Christian: What about the feelings of those who dislike spam? Repeatedly you, and Andrew have been told that his website is on the nose, repeatedly Andrew has ignored the warnings.

The rules are there for everyone, no exceptions, as it should be.

Christian, I didn't ignore it. I saw it was being dealt with elsewhere, so just tried to be welcoming other than that.

When I became concerned it was getting out of hand, I made some suggestions about it within the thread and sent what I considered a friendly PM also making some suggestions to Andrew/Divefish about how to get back on an even footing on the forum, which from what I have seen and had in response, have all been taken on board and taken place. My issue is the manner in which things are done.


best wishes,

maria

[Maria CM]

Maria

I don't think people where intending to be patronising. There is unfortunately a well worn path of people diving well outside there actual ability as against there believed ability. To add to this, the young have a great belief in there immortality. The mix of the two is not a good thing in diving.

Those who have been diving any length of time will inevitably done something extremely foolish in their diving career, normally very close to the start of it. If they say they haven't, I have a tendency to disbelieve them, & treat every following statement with a great deal of caution. Even the experienced are noted for doing very stupid things occasionally, complacency is generally the reason. The distinct advantage with those with some experience is that they normally have the experience to extract themselves from the brown smelly stuff, even if it does leave them looking like a prize turnip, the inexperienced often have to rely on luck under similar circumstances.

A thirst for knowledge is a great thing, the problem is that it often results in instant experts. A mix of knowledge & experience is of far more value.

What I do find personally frustrating, was that when I first learnt to dive I new everything there was to know about diving. After a little diving I seemed to know less about the subject.
When I first became an instructor it appeared that I once again I new a lot, but after a few years it seems I know less than when I started diving.
It is somewhat puzzling that the more I learn the less I know. All those certainties are replaced with more & more shades of grey.
I keep meeting people who know more than me but tell me they know less, rather like life:confused:

Gareth

Hi Gareth,

I quite agree:)

After all, the most expert drivers are invariably teenagers. They are also the ones that have bad accidents. If you muck up as a seasoned driver, you are more likely to be able to get yourself out of it without killing yourself. Same goes for diving. And, as you say, everyone mucks up sometimes to a greater or lesser extent.

I am a firm believer though, that those with a thirst for knowledge WILL find it in some, way, shape, or form. It is better that it comes from an experienced person who can advise on dangers and limitations at the same time, that the curious may not have considered. The major problem in life is that you have no idea what you do not know on a subject, and that is dangerous. It also lies when people try to find out with no experienced input and then become an 'expert'. That is when they think they know, and will potentially go off as a loose cannon.

Yes - I completely agree, the young generally perceive themselves as immortal. Young males, even more so - I mean no insult by that, it is the way we are programmed. I fully agree too with the premise that as we grow older and more experienced the more we realise quite how little we know. People who aren't aware of that still have a fair bit of growing up to do...... sadly some people never realise it.

But, teenagers want to be treated like adults. If you treat them like an adult they generally do their best to behave like one, and 'out-responsible' each other. If you treat them like a child, they behave like one.... big-time, as a rule.

I still owe you for all your help with the twinset:) You were very kind and didn't treat me like a complete banana at all:)

best wishes,

Maria

[Jed]

I've looked at everything that's been said regarding this issue and would like to offer the following:

Whilst I understand that divefish may have acted in good faith, and I agree with the people who have looked at his stuff, it is good, I can also see where some of the regular contributors are coming from (to be honest I wouldn't recognise spam if it fell off the shelf and hit me on the head) and I sympathise with the moderators who have to work very hard to keep this forum on an even keel. It must be hard "pleasing all of the people all of the time".

I notice that the majority of people who are trying to sell stuff on this forum tend to be people who have just joined the site and seem to use it for that one purpose. They join, they advertise, they disappear. Time will tell.

I think that this forum is very much like life (and diving) "If you want respect, you've got to earn it".

Now, about hog looping.............................:)

[Edward]

... and I sympathise with the moderators who have to work very hard to keep this forum on an even keel. It must be hard "pleasing all of the people all of the time".


Blatant **** and full blown commercial advertising are easy.

This thread is an example of the difficult ones. We (the Mods) do discuss if our actions were/are appropriate (I've been told in the past, in no uncertain terms, to wind my neck in and leave things alone).

Regards

Edward

[Mike Halligan]

Blatant **** and full blown commercial advertising are easy.

This thread is an example of the difficult ones. We (the Mods) do discuss if our actions were/are appropriate (I've been told in the past, in no uncertain terms, to wind my neck in and leave things alone).

Regards

Edward

Ed, your efforts are appreciated, especially the contentious efforts.

Jed, Spam comes in blue tins with yellow writing. If the shelf it falls from is high enough then it does hurt.

[Hamish]

Ed, your efforts are appreciated, especially the contentious efforts.

Jed, Spam comes in blue tins with yellow writing. If the shelf it falls from is high enough then it does hurt.

ROFL :D http://www.spam.com/

Mike,

Would have greened but wont let me.

Hamish

[Jed]

ROFL :D http://www.spam.com/

Mike,

Would have greened but wont let me.

Hamish

This must be spamming in it's purest form!!



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