New Diver Thing of Gear

[adlinkie1]

Hi

I have been doing my training now for a couple of months to become an ocean diver, and am in the process of looking at gear. So far I have found a set of oceanic Alpha 8 CDX5 Regulators, i.e. 1st + 2nd Stage with octopus and triple guage (here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=310140032083&Category=16056&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1#ht_2414wt _1167)). Just after general advice though really for gear for use in cold waters (i.e. UK).

Also any advice on drysuits would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers

Andrew

[Woz]

Don't buy regs off eBay is the first bit of advice I can give you for starters! As for drysuits, have a search on the forum (and across at yorkshire-divers.com) and you'll get a swathe of information.

Saying "any advice on drysuits" is a bit like saying "any advice on cars". It's a bit open!

[graham nurse]

As Woz says dont buy of ebay. If you decided on a made to measure suit invest the time in traveling to the manufacture and get them to measure you. They are far more lilely to make you the suit you want as you can discus options and your requirements for a suit.

Graham.

[adlinkie1]

Sorry, wasn't planning on getting them from ebay but it was the only web link i could find in a hurry.

What make/model of regs should i be looking at?

Also as far as the drysuit go's, should i be looking new or 2nd hand and what type of material, is it just personal choice between membrance/neoprene/compressed or crushed neoprene? Or are there any perks to the different materials?

[NickBCotswold]

Sorry, wasn't planning on getting them from ebay but it was the only web link i could find in a hurry.

What make/model of regs should i be looking at?

Also as far as the drysuit go's, should i be looking new or 2nd hand and what type of material, is it just personal choice between membrance/neoprene/compressed or crushed neoprene? Or are there any perks to the different materials?

hiya - congratulations on starting the OD course - hope you love it! Part of doing the OD course is learning from not just your instructor but other club members - this is one of the BIGGEST benefits of belonging to BSAC - that you're part of a club. This is the best place not just to ask more experienced divers what regs to look for, but also to try different regs on pool nights and open water training/practise. What might be great for "me" and "my diving" may not be best for "you" and "your diving!" - also, theres a much higher chance you'll end up diving with your club members after your training - what kind of diving do the generally do?? That may be different to "my" club! So my advice would be by all means ask different people on this forum what regs or dry suit to look for - but DO consider asking , seeing and trying your fellow club members!

best of luck

Nick B

[Phil_Harris]

Hi There
If i were you, i really wouldn't bother getting a triple console, all you need is Air contents and depth if your not going to get a watch just yet. The triple console will just be a massive thing dangling there and get on your nerves :-)

As for the rest of your equipment, as everyone has said, its all about learning from your fellow Club members, but that said, i have a set of Apex XTX 200 with XTX 50 Oct and i think there the Dogs :-)

Good luck with your OD Training


Phil

[Fishy49]

Hi Andrew,

Hope your OD training is going OK. Talking about drysuits, stay away from normal neoprene - they are very buoyant, meaning that you need loads of weight to get down, and then when you get down and the neo compresses, you are overweighted. Also, when it compresses, you will loose thermal protection,

I have a Northern Diver Divemaster compressed neoprene drysuit and am very pleased with it - the pockets are handy and its a perfect fit. One of the most important things is fit. Mine was a standard size, but it may be worth cystom made sizes if necessary.

Compressed neoprene drysuits and generally Ok - like I said, I'm pleased with - can't complain at all.

However, from what I've heard from quite a few people, membrane is the best way to go. A descent one is apparently more flexible ( the club one that I used at first was very stiff and that is probably what made me get a compressed neo suit), they don't compress AT ALL, and best of all, its not half as hot when you get into it to try it in the pool!

Between compressed neoprene and membrane, its personal preference, but stay away from uncompressed neoprene!

Also, unless you really can't get to grips with an autodump after trying desperately hard to make it work, stay away from cuff dumps.

Hop this helps.

Good look with you OD training.

[paul_c]

reg wise dive life are doin an apeks DS4 with octo, pressure guage and 1st stage for a good price. of which i shall soon be puchasing to i can have my sherwood set as a single or stage setup.


as to what type of reg should you get.
this is very much based on wallet size, and what you intend to do. if staying as an OD or SD (which is in itself a totaly acceptable thing to do, depth aint everything) then do you need the dogs danglies with bells n whistles on for the dive? or is a simple set of regs all you need. the apeks is a very well regarded reg. its tempted me away from my sherwoods with a combination of price and the recomendations of a hell of a lot of people.

if you are going to prgress on in years to come do you still need the dogs danglies right now?


re tripple console.

i have one which i have my pressure guage, comp and compass on, and its an OLD chunky one,

i dont think it gets in the way, but it is a choice a diver should make for themselves. i infact prefer to have my guages in one place not all over as its a one galnce to see them all but that is my way. you may not like that.
i do have it clipped onto a cumberband d ring so it isnt drooping but again thats setting up a personal kit set which has taken years to slowley evolve into what i want.

ignore low drag arguments. it doent make much difference unless your built like a racing snake with the cross section of a pin. and most "low drag" divers i have seen end up with lots of danlgys hangng of them thus countering there own arguments.


as to drysuits

my adive is they are waste of money. but that is me personaly. i dive ina wetsuit. and i feel fine.

but getting one made WELL and not accepting a poor fit is essential.

[garethwoodruff]

Reg wise, these are good, I have a set for single cylinder diving, I'm using them for teaching students in the sea in Scotland this weekend.

http://www.divelife.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=2852

Drysuit wise, Seaskin offer a good suit, a few I know have got them and they offer good value for money.

[Nick Argue]

Hi

<snip> So far I have found a set of oceanic Alpha 8 CDX5 Regulators, i.e. 1st + 2nd Stage with octopus and triple guage (here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=310140032083&Category=16056&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1#ht_2414wt _1167)). Just after general advice though really for gear for use in cold waters (i.e. UK).

<snip>

Yep, CDX5's are good for UK cold water diving; I regularly use mine in 3-4 deg water with no issues. I bought my last set from here http://www.kentdiving.com/Regulators/Oceanic/Oceanic-Alpha-8-CDX5/p-75-132-2103
I'd get DIN 5/8 rather than A clamp and just an SPG or an SPG and depth gauge if you're not putting a depth gauge /computer on your wrist.

[voltiana]

Hi

I have been doing my training now for a couple of months to become an ocean diver, and am in the process of looking at gear. So far I have found a set of oceanic Alpha 8 CDX5 Regulators, i.e. 1st + 2nd Stage with octopus and triple guage (here (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=310140032083&Category=16056&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1#ht_2414wt _1167)). Just after general advice though really for gear for use in cold waters (i.e. UK).

Also any advice on drysuits would be hugely appreciated.

Cheers

Andrew


Shop around for kit both on line and at your local dive store, that way you might find the same regs for a better price. If you can also go to the Dive shows as a lot of companies have show special there.

Volty

[NickBCotswold]

Also, unless you really can't get to grips with an autodump after trying desperately hard to make it work, stay away from cuff dumps.


why? you dont give a reason!! I have dived with a cuff dump since the start - and when I bought a dry suit I purposely chose a cuff dump because its what i was trained in and what i knew...! Today I do the same 45m-50m dives as buddies with auto-dump with the same enjoyment, safety and bouyancy control! If anything, I have LESS problems than some buddies relying on auto-dump!

just my two pennith worth!!!

Nick

[northern_diver]

Nick, i do think thats the first i've ever seen you seem a little niffed;)

As Voltina (im sorry if i misremembered the spelling) says, shop around.

If you local dive shop (LDS) is more expensive, show them evidence of another shop been cheaper and ask for a price match atleast, i've done this before to much success.

Also, haggle, see if you can get stuff tossed in, like that mask clear stuff or a mask strap (something cheap) as it all helps (though i gave my maskclear stuff to a mountain biker mate of mine :rolleyes: ) Yeah, it takes the right sort of attitude and be respectful, but its ok to do, as its still a sale.

John

[NickBCotswold]

Nick, i do think thats the first i've ever seen you seem a little niffed;)

As Voltina (im sorry if i misremembered the spelling) says, shop around.

If you local dive shop (LDS) is more expensive, show them evidence of another shop been cheaper and ask for a price match atleast, i've done this before to much success.

Also, haggle, see if you can get stuff tossed in, like that mask clear stuff or a mask strap (something cheap) as it all helps (though i gave my maskclear stuff to a mountain biker mate of mine :rolleyes: ) Yeah, it takes the right sort of attitude and be respectful, but its ok to do, as its still a sale.

John

Soz if I came across "all high and mighty/miffed" John, really I aint!! Just that last year I saw SO many newly qualified OD's in our club, who had trained in a hired dry suit with cuff dump, eagerly spend loads on their first brand new dry suit WITH auto dump (because thats what loads of other more experienced peeps in the club have) - then go on to struggle in the water, have near accidents and on 3 occassions have serious "off-puting" incidents happen, all because they hadnt trained with an auto dump! 2 off these people then wished they had remained with a cuff dump!!

Of course theres plenty of reasons why the OP should choose an auto-dump, just that I think novices should receive fair and balanced opinions when seeking advice, with reasoning, and not blind "stay clear of this and dont look at that" statements which really can be misleading and not very constructive!!

Again, just my two pennith worth...

I'll get me coat! lol!


Nick

[Nigel Hewitt]

all because they hadnt trained with an auto dump! 2 off these people then wished they had remained with a cuff dump!!
The cuff dump is the ABLJ of drysuit dumps.

They work. People have used them happily for years but... we have better kit now.

[northern_diver]

Of course theres plenty of reasons why the OP should choose an auto-dump, just that I think novices should receive fair and balanced opinions when seeking advice, with reasoning, and not blind "stay clear of this and dont look at that" statements which really can be misleading and not very constructive!!

Again, just my two pennith worth...
Nick

I agree 100% with you mate, a balanced, constructed information packed is that people want. When i advised a close friend on buying this diving gear, he can tell you that i went to pains to suggest all the pro's and con's of the various gear, with suitable antidotes, if available. Blind knowlegde and action IS STILL BLIND. Just like in school, an answer must be justifed in some manner....and marked according :rolleyes:

So it was more an observation than a 'dont do that!' :D

As with all things, Horses for courses (if i had a quid every time i heard that...) i find it funny in a way, that a sport/hobby with so much formal training, 'rules' and organisations which set procedures, then has such a plethora of 'just do whatever you want, mate' sides too.

John

[Steve Walsh]

Hi Andrew,

Hope your OD training is going OK. Talking about drysuits, stay away from normal neoprene - they are very buoyant, meaning that you need loads of weight to get down, and then when you get down and the neo compresses, you are overweighted. Also, when it compresses, you will loose thermal protection,

I have a Northern Diver Divemaster compressed neoprene drysuit and am very pleased with it - the pockets are handy and its a perfect fit. One of the most important things is fit. Mine was a standard size, but it may be worth cystom made sizes if necessary.

Compressed neoprene drysuits and generally Ok - like I said, I'm pleased with - can't complain at all.

However, from what I've heard from quite a few people, membrane is the best way to go. A descent one is apparently more flexible ( the club one that I used at first was very stiff and that is probably what made me get a compressed neo suit), they don't compress AT ALL, and best of all, its not half as hot when you get into it to try it in the pool!

Between compressed neoprene and membrane, its personal preference, but stay away from uncompressed neoprene!

Also, unless you really can't get to grips with an autodump after trying desperately hard to make it work, stay away from cuff dumps.

Hop this helps.

Good look with you OD training.


and you have dived a neoprene drysuit how many times?

I went from a trilaminate suit to a neoprene and dropped weight. undersuits have a huge effect too neoprene gives a good amount of thermal protetion so you can reduc he thickness and therefore buoyancy of the undersuit . as for cuf dumps again its what you prefer, i couldn't get on with a cuff dump in training and use an auto dump as it suits me.

trainees can need a lot of weight as they are not as relaxed. weight will come off as you progress and gain confidence same as SAC will change. the change in buoyancy as you descend is minimal and a tiny squirt of airwill keep you neutral. if you struggle then i would suggest you are very over weighted. I know i was on my first few dives and struggled to ascend slowly as the amount of air required to keep me neutral was too much for the dump valves to get rid of. I fell into the trap of adding weight to " keep me down" and exacerbated the problem.

the secret is to try as many suits as you can underwater, ask in your club to try suits.

dry suits are a matter of personal choice and if i had to do it all over again i would go for the Made to measure or made to fit and get one that fits me properly. you will be so much more comfortable in the water in it.


i thoroughly recommend Othree as do many others. and if you go to portland to get measured you can maybe get a cheeky dive in :)

http://www.divemagazine.co.uk/review/reviewproduct.asp?sp=&v=3&rpn=3252

[ianfirmin]

Also, unless you really can't get to grips with an autodump after trying desperately hard to make it work, stay away from cuff dumps.



Fishy, you seem to have gone from asking loads of questions (a good thing) to now be giving out answers. I'm impressed that you have gone from ignorance to sagacity so quickly.

Nigel, I'm surprised with your comment about cuff dumps. They do things in a different way to autodumps and that may suit people. I personally (after trying both on their own) have both. But don't take that as a recommendation.

Andrew, why don't you ask people in your club to let you try stuff out. I'm sure you will find people very happy to let you try out any bits of kit (maybe even the rebreathers...) That way you can come to your own conclusions.

ATB
Ian

[ChristianG]

Also, unless you really can't get to grips with an autodump after trying desperately hard to make it work, stay away from cuff dumps.
Huh?

Last time I looked dry suits use a cuff dump, a shoulder (thereabouts) auto dump, or both. Oh yes, they also use a pull-your-sleeve-or-neckseal-away (kind of) dump - and in a real emergency you could always unzip it I suppose.

Edit/: if you are going to give advice you need to at least make it the kind of advice that people cannot pick holes in as easily as above. You have a learning curve on your hands young man, not least being able to properly express yourself on (the electronic version of) paper.

[Rowly]

Andrew,
Hello, I have recently gone through this "what to buy" conundrum. I try to go for stuff that is going to be useful for some time. I did loads of research on t'interweb and at my club and whatever happens you get differing views.
As for drysuits I went for cheap but well reviewed and ended up with this:
http://www.outer-edge.info/
I hadn't tried a cuff dump before and get on with the shoulder dump fine. I do find that I prefer to use my BCD/Wing for buoyancy though because I find a delay in the air movement, using a little air in the suit to stop the squeeze.

To be honest with you I am currently looking at trying to stay retro. I do get the feeling that, although kit develops, this may be to squeeze more pounds out of me for this years model.

Your choice of regs is excellent, and cheap. Should do you for years and will even remain with you if you go for twin cylinders etc. I have recently picked up the first and 2nd stage with a presssure guage for about £140 from Divelife.

I also have a set of Oceanic regs CDX5 with GT3 second stage and despite a bit of a problem with the valve the service is very good and the parts are free when you service. This saves you £35 a year.

Get your stuff, practice with it in the pool, dive with it and avoid being tempted by the shiny-shiny!!!!

[Fishy49]

why? you dont give a reason!! I have dived with a cuff dump since the start - and when I bought a dry suit I purposely chose a cuff dump because its what i was trained in and what i knew...! Today I do the same 45m-50m dives as buddies with auto-dump with the same enjoyment, safety and bouyancy control! If anything, I have LESS problems than some buddies relying on auto-dump!

just my two pennith worth!!!

Nick

Because whenever you want to stretch or roll over you end up dumping air, which is a pain. Also, you have to adopt an superman pose when ascending to stop yourself blowing up like a balloon. You can always add a cuff dump at a later date, whereas once you have made the hole in your suit its there.

and you have dived a neoprene drysuit how many times?

Twice. Admittedly it was a bit big, but it was bulky and inflexible, and buoyancy control was horrible. I honestly can't think of one advantage of neoprene.

[Ron MacRae]

James,

I think a bit big was the problem. Also two dives is no time to get used to any suit. It takes a good few dives for you to get comfortable in any suit. I've had a trilaminate suit for the last 8 years but this time decided on neoprene. I love it, but I paid a bit extra and got it made to measure by Solent Divers. Worth the extra for any suit IMO. Any suit that doesn't fit is going to end up acting like an air bag at some time.

Ron.

[ChristianG]

Admittedly it was a bit big, but it was bulky and inflexible, and buoyancy control was horrible. I honestly can't think of one advantage of neoprene.
Yet, didn't you also say - even on this thread:

I have a Northern Diver Divemaster compressed neoprene drysuit and am very pleased with it - the pockets are handy and its a perfect fit. One of the most important things is fit. Mine was a standard size, but it may be worth cystom made sizes if necessary.
Or is neoprene entirely different to compressed neoprene?

[Steve Walsh]

glad it wasn't only me who picked up on these things.

2 dives in a suit does not give you any idea of how its going to be.

i will admit some neoprene may be inflexible but most isn't .

[suzuki600srad]

i have dived with oceanic regs and always founf them to be good regs.
i now dive with posidon jet steams and fing these great.

i also dive with a otter britanic dry suit, i understand that they are alot of cash, but with these you only ever buy one, they are simply the best. hope all goes well with future diving. safe diving

[Strike]

Just to add to the debate regarding choice of dry-suit materials ('membrane' Vs Neoprene), it's worth bearing in mind that there are several variations in the quality of neoprene.

Constructed of much the same material as that used in wet suits, the neoprene dry suit has added advantages. They are easily made to measure; have a sleeker, more figure hugging design than a membrane suit - with less ‘drag’ when swimming; and, because much of the warmth factor comes from the material itself, they usually require less undergarments to be worn.

They tend, however, to be more buoyant than a membrane suit and, because they become compressed with depth, lose some of their insulation properties. It must also be remembered that a thicker neoprene dry suit selected for the degree of thermal protection it offers when diving in cold waters may be completely unsuited to warm water operations.

In general terms the neoprenes used in dry-suit materials are:
Crushed neoprene. Denser than wet-suit neoprene by virtue of the fact that it contains no gas cells, crushed neoprene features a heavy duty nylon outer lining and a softer inner lining. Both abrasion and puncture resistant and one of the few materials that offer four way stretch, crushed neoprene offers a closer and more comfortable fit in shell suit design.

Micro-cell neoprene. Bridging the gap between the crushed and foam varieties is micro-cell neoprene. Similarly contained between a durable inner and outer lining, the gas bubbles in micro-cell neoprene are twenty per cent smaller than normal. Subject to less compression at depth, the material retains better insulation qualities and requires the use of less undergarments than with a shell suit. Flexible and easily patterned to individual measurements, dry suits made of this material are sleeker and more form fitting, offering greater dynamic qualities when swimming.

Neoprene. More subject to tears, punctures and the effects of abrasion than suits made of the ‘crushed’ variety (despite the calibre of lining), neoprene suits are subject to compression at depth resulting in a greater difficulty in sustaining a constant thermal balance.

In the latter, maintaining 'neutral' buoyancy is also fraught with difficulty.

Strike

[Roz]

Fishy

This is one of the kindest diving forums going and it’s well moderated. (Actively by the Moderators, and passively by “us out front”, ie the Members who post on here).

You’ve hopefully noticed by now that there is a certain level of behaviour expected on Forums. It helps if one can spell, has some grasp of grammar and can communicate in a clear manner. This Forum is a grown up one. Whilst we do have a laugh and a giggle, we also expect as standard, good behaviour, manners, and the posting of correct information on here. When someone posts information on here, they are able to draw on their relevant knowledge base. Thus the posting of incorrect information is quickly jumped on, because it’s not helpful. That said we can’t all be right all of the time and I know I have made a couple of posts in the past containing incorrect information, and I’ve been quickly pulled up on it.

By your own admission you are 15/16 and just finishing Ocean Diver Training. I think I can safely speak for the majority of the posters on here when I say we are hugely delighted to see someone being so keen, enthusiastic and positive about diving, because that's how we all feel about it too. However you are now in danger mate of damaging your reputation and credibility. You're a new diver. This is not a slight, a criticism or put down. It's the truth. We all had to start somewhere and I can certainly remember my first dive in Stoney Cove. I was shocked to find rocks at the bottom. Not sure what I was expecting, but I digress.

When people come onto this Forum asking questions, they are seeking truthful, helpful answers from experienced divers who know what they are talking about because they have done it. You’re not there yet. Carry on with your training and go diving. The best place for you to learn to dive is in the water doing it. When you are part way through your Sports Training, then you’ve got some mental and physical reference and you’ve got some experience to draw on to answer questions in a helpful manner.