Conversion to Dive Leader

[Faye Wimpenny]

Hi, I am a BSAC Sports Diver and a PADI Divemaster but I am trying to convert back to BSAC Dive Leader.


Please, please ,please can someone tell me exactly what I have to do in order to get my Branch D.O. to sign me off as I need it to book my Theoy Instructor Exam!

Many thanks in advance.

Faye

[Rich]

Hi, I am a BSAC Sports Diver and a PADI Divemaster but I am trying to convert back to BSAC Dive Leader.


Please, please ,please can someone tell me exactly what I have to do in order to get my Branch D.O. to sign me off as I need it to book my Theoy Instructor Exam!

Many thanks in advance.

Faye


Hi Faye,

Why not go ahead and do the DL course, I have recently done mine and it was the most thorough and concise of the grades yet. If time is a factor, then do the O2 administration course so you can then sign off much of the O2 bit of the Dive Leader course.

Failing that, why cant you ask your D.O.? i'm not sure of the cross-over, but they may suggest to do the DL course anyhow.

Good Luck.
Rich

[Mike Halligan]

Hi, I am a BSAC Sports Diver and a PADI Divemaster but I am trying to convert back to BSAC Dive Leader.


Please, please ,please can someone tell me exactly what I have to do in order to get my Branch D.O. to sign me off as I need it to book my Theoy Instructor Exam!

Many thanks in advance.

Faye,

If you are qualified as a BSAC SD, then the way to get your DL signed, and thus be eligible for examination, is to do the BSAC DL course.

AFAIK, SALT is for those importing qualification to the BSAC on first arrival from another code and cannot be applied in your case (You are SD).

It seems to me that your DO has no authority to sign your DL at the present time (You haven't done the course).

Try asking HQ, but be sure to explain your status and the timing of your qualifications precisely. Otherwise the answer could be misleading.

Sorry I cannot be of encouragement.

Mike

[Will Swift]

Hi, I am a BSAC Sports Diver and a PADI Divemaster but I am trying to convert back to BSAC Dive Leader.

Faye,

Having done both I found the DM course much more intensive and far more useful. Why not go down the OWSI route and then simply x-over as a BSAC instructor?

For those wanting to go DL for depth - I also found the TDI courses much more useful and more comprehensive.

Although DM = DL on a SALT I think another poster posed the problem that you are already an SD...

BSAC, you must recognise that divers these days will pick N mix the training they want, when they want - and their branch may not provide instructors to the standard they want.

Faye has already achieved DL with an excellent qualification, the fact that this is not recognised by her branch / BSAC may eventually tell her something.

BSAC needs to address this issue.

Faye, I think you'll have to just go through the motions on this one, look on it as revision and practice - not time wasted, a chance to shine and show that you really deserve the grade. The DL course isn't too hard and I think you can do it via the new route within the club without all the SDCs.

Practice makes perfect!

Best luck
Give me an email if you want any other info.
Wills.

[edward haynes]

Faye

Your situation raises a fundamental issue about advancement by switching organisations.

When SALT was first conceived it was possible to use a BSAC entry qualification to move over to a higher grade with another body. Then switch back to BSAC with that new level, without having completed the training required for the new level. Only being able to use SALT once prevents this situation.

That said, BSAC are now portraying the "We go diving, others train" line (my condensed interpretation). So the issue of where individuals receive their training 'might' be something the new National Diving Officer looks at.

Even if our guidelines allowed you to gain DL equivalence, there are skills you would need to be taught/demonstrate. For example the deployment of a DSMB mid-water.

Edward

[jp]

Hi Everyone

This subject is under constant discussion by BSAC. This particular scinario or a zig zag procedure has been looked at very closly and found to be a somewhat unreliable way of gaining a qualification.

A SALT or statement of alternative training is a one time oppourtunity for an other agency diver to join BSAC, have their other agency qualification recognised, and then take an active part in BSAC training or the running of a BSAC branch as a BSAC qualified diver.

In short, sorry but your DO is correct you will have to do the course, having said that as a PADI Divemaster it will be a breeze!!

Incidently anyone ever tried to cross over the other way? guess not as there is no profit in that!
JP




Faye

Your situation raises a fundamental issue about advancement by switching organisations.

When SALT was first conceived it was possible to use a BSAC entry qualification to move over to a higher grade with another body. Then switch back to BSAC with that new level, without having completed the training required for the new level. Only being able to use SALT once prevents this situation.

That said, BSAC are now portraying the "We go diving, others train" line (my condensed interpretation). So the issue of where individuals receive their training 'might' be something the new National Diving Officer looks at.

Even if our guidelines allowed you to gain DL equivalence, there are skills you would need to be taught/demonstrate. For example the deployment of a DSMB mid-water.

Edward

[nick kay]

Hi Faye

Do the O2 and PRM courses - one day each, that'll leave you (theorywise) with 3 DL lectures.

You'll then need to do the relevant inwater practical stuff plus the dive marshalling & dives, though your DO should be able to signup the dives from what you've done as a DM

Therefore, you can probably get through the DL course with relative ease...

[Will Swift]

Incidently anyone ever tried to cross over the other way? guess not as there is no profit in that!

I did DL, mainly for the increased depth but still felt I needed to do a deco procedures course after my DL. I then did my DM crossing over from DL exempting me from RD - as I had additional AV/CPR qualification from HSE.

The DL was excellent in-water, the DM was excellent theory. A combination that I felt worked well for my type of diving.

As for the future... Trimix / Cave / Instructor will be done with the Agency and Instructor that match my requirements.

[hazey]

I suggest you read the link to the statement of alternative training pdf. This clearly states that as a PADI DM you have the eqivalent qualification to a Dive Leader and can directly move onto the instructor training scheme.

Rather that listen to opinions on the forum I suggest you phone Jim Watson at HQ. He will give you a difinative answer.

[Will Swift]

I suggest you read the link to the statement of alternative training pdf. This clearly states that as a PADI DM you have the eqivalent qualification to a Dive Leader and can directly move onto the instructor training scheme.

It also clearly states that BSAC doesn't offer any training courses for Closed Circuit Rebreathers - go figure!

Rather that listen to opinions on the forum I suggest you phone Jim Watson at HQ. He will give you a difinative answer.

Good Advice.

[PeteM]

I suggest you read the link to the statement of alternative training pdf. This clearly states that as a PADI DM you have the eqivalent qualification to a Dive Leader and can directly move onto the instructor training scheme.

It also quiet clearly talks about "New Members joining a branch" which is not the case here were we have either an existing member or a rejoiner. Therefore SALT does not apply

Rather that listen to opinions on the forum I suggest you phone Jim Watson at HQ. He will give you a difinative answer.

Good advice, but the definitive answer will be exactly as already given

[Mike Halligan]

I suggest you read the link to the statement of alternative training pdf. This clearly states that as a PADI DM you have the eqivalent qualification to a Dive Leader and can directly move onto the instructor training scheme.

Save that SALT is not available to Faye's DO for consideration of Faye's DM qualification, since she is SD trained.
However, as has been pointed out, she could negotiate with her DO how she will demonstrate that she satisfies the requirements for the DL grade she seeks (just like any other candidate internal or transferring).


Rather that listen to opinions on the forum I suggest you phone Jim Watson at HQ. He will give you a difinative answer.

Hmmm, much as I've said, though why ask the question if you're not going to consider opinions offered? In any case, beware that the question be very carefully phrased, complete and accurate.

Mike

[Faye Wimpenny]

I suggest you read the link to the statement of alternative training pdf. This clearly states that as a PADI DM you have the eqivalent qualification to a Dive Leader and can directly move onto the instructor training scheme.

Rather that listen to opinions on the forum I suggest you phone Jim Watson at HQ. He will give you a difinative answer.

Thanks for that, this was the kind of information that I was looking for.

Faye

[Khaled Alwassia]

I suggest you read the link to the statement of alternative training pdf. This clearly states that as a PADI DM you have the eqivalent qualification to a Dive Leader and can directly move onto the instructor training scheme.

Rather that listen to opinions on the forum I suggest you phone Jim Watson at HQ. He will give you a difinative answer.

The way i see this it is just an other case where the information on the BSAC Webpage can be read in many different ways. Updating the website info in a clear non contradictiong way which is not open for interpretation is paramount . I think the question should be answered by someone from BSAC HQ here on the forum so a difinet final word is given.
We not have an area on the forum where members can post questions whihc can only be answered by BSAC HQ staff?
That would take out the different opinions and give the "real" answer.

[MartinSutcliffe]

As others have already said, crossing over to DL from DiveMaster when your alrady SD is a contentious issue. The fact is that you should do the Dive Leader course, although you Diving Officer and instructor(s) may consider condensing the course significantly for you.

There are some skills which are simply not a requirement of the PADI DM course - I recently had a PADI DM xover to DL, assuming on the basis of his paper qualification that he was a competent diver, but some of his skills once I saw him in the water led me to question this. He was rather too attached to his SMB, for example.

Your instructors and DO should satisfy themselves that you are "competent and confident" in all the appropriate skills fo the DL course. In your case, this might take 2 or three dives doing the skills in a condensed fashion, rather than the full 7 dives.

Attendance at an O2 course (BSAC or other agency) is a skill which you should absolutely have as a DL, and it amazes me that PADI do not require it of their DM's, since it would make both more useful DM's, and would allow them to charge an extra pound or so for an O2 course!!

Talk through the whole course with them, and ask that your current qualification be recognised for what it is, but you should understand that it is not, actually, directly equivalent!!



Hi, I am a BSAC Sports Diver and a PADI Divemaster but I am trying to convert back to BSAC Dive Leader.


Please, please ,please can someone tell me exactly what I have to do in order to get my Branch D.O. to sign me off as I need it to book my Theoy Instructor Exam!

Many thanks in advance.

Faye

[PeteM]

Attendance at an O2 course (BSAC or other agency) is a skill which you should absolutely have as a DL, and it amazes me that PADI do not require it of their DM's, since it would make both more useful DM's, and would allow them to charge an extra pound or so for an O2 course!!

I thought that it was a requirement for Rescue Diver to have attended a first aid course including O2 admin.

[Khaled Alwassia]

I thought that it was a requirement for Rescue Diver to have attended a first aid course including O2 admin.

For the Rescue Diver you need the Emmergency First Responder Course but only basic course without the O2 course.
Done it myself.

[padidog1]

You only need cpr for the padi rescue course if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.


:=I thought that it was a requirement for Rescue Diver to have attended a first aid course including O2 admin.

For the Rescue Diver you need the Emmergency First Responder Course but only basic course without the O2 course.
Done it myself.

[Khaled Alwassia]

You only need cpr for the padi rescue course if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.


Is "Safety Diver" a PADI Speciality Qualification? Never heard of that one? Please let me have the details.

[jimbo1]

A saftey diver is cover when a instructor is in the water with a trainee but that is in the eyes of the HSE. But padi schools only uses divemasters or above as satey divers most divemasters are 02 trained you need to have a cpr ticket to complet the divemasters course a bsac sports diver is a good grade to have when i done my many years ago it was a good course.


:=You only need cpr for the padi rescue course if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.
:=

Is "Safety Diver" a PADI Speciality Qualification? Never heard of that one? Please let me have the details.

[terryh]

You only need cpr for the padi rescue course if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.



Like %$@* you do.
<a href="http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/rec/continue/rescue.asp" >http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/rec/continue/rescue.asp</a>

CPR is an absolute prerec for Rescue diver.

T.

[Will Swift]

:=You only need cpr for the padi rescue course if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.
:=
:=

Like %$@* you do.
http://www.padi.com/english/common/courses/rec/continue/rescue.asp

CPR is an absolute prerec for Rescue diver.

T.

I think you could also have read this as:
You only need cpr for the padi rescue course, if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.

i.e. CPR is a pre-rec for rescue but if you act as a safety diver you should also be 02 and first aid trained.

[terryh]

:=
I think you could also have read this as:
You only need cpr for the padi rescue course, if you are acting as a saftey diver you then need a 02 & first aid ticket.

i.e. CPR is a pre-rec for rescue but if you act as a safety diver you should also be 02 and first aid trained.

Amazing what a comma can do!!!!!!!

Tel.