View Full Version : Hood over mask strap?
Is there any real reason why new divers aren't taught to have their mask strap under their hood, while most technical divers do?
Safe diving. James.
Yazzyfooty
30-12-2009, 18:18
Task loading I would imagine is the reason why. As a newly qualified diver or a trainee diver....removing a mask is far easier when you are not having to give thought to your hood being in the way.
When someone gets to technical diving level I would hope they have sufficient experience and dives under their belt to deal with mask removal and replacment under a hood.
Hope that answers your question?
Paul Duckworth
30-12-2009, 18:22
..., while most technical divers do?
Most "technical" divers (that I know and dive with) don't.
Fair enough. But I know that some do, so why do they?
Fair enough. But I know that some do, so why do they?
No idea you could ask them.
We learn to have the strap over the hood as already said it is easier to do mask off drills. I can't remember when I last noticed someone with the strap under their hood.
Yazzyfooty
30-12-2009, 18:54
My buddy (MD) not only hog loops but also dives with his mask strap is he doomed? :D
I'm with the others, I can't remember seeing anyone do this.
In technical diving it's not done. It's an unnecessary task loading.
seadeuce
30-12-2009, 19:02
Wearing the mask under the hood offers the following advantages:
1/ Better seal on face;
2/ Mask strap does not come loose/ride up the back of your head on backwards entry from boat. This is a frequent occurrence with a slapstrap;
3/ Mask less likely to be inadvertantly kicked off your head by a diver's fins when too close.
4/ Mask unaffected by pressure changes, such as air trapped in hood and increasing in volume on ascent thereby causing mask squeeze on ascent.
5/ Mask can still be flooded for exercise purposes by pulling out from face, then clearing as per usual.
6/ If penetrating wrecks there is no strap to get caught on an overhead snag as you swim along.
Have worn my mask this way for years. Never a problem. Have seen all the above go wrong with an "unenclosed" strap. I am a deep-air recreational diver, not strictly a Techie.
Your choice entirely,
Seadeuce
Have worn my mask this way for years. Never a problem.
Must be a bitch to change your mask under water, how long does it take?
Your choice entirely,
Agreed. :)
seadeuce
30-12-2009, 19:14
Oh! One other advantage wpuld be that in a rescue situation my flailing buddy would be less likely to dislodge the mask, and if he/she did then it would still be "with" me and easily replaced on my face.
This makes me more confident (and willing!) to immediately assist any person in a spot of bother, esp. while diving abroad. Unknown entities there.
Seadeuce
Oh! One other advantage wpuld be that in a rescue situation my flailing buddy would be less likely to dislodge the mask, and if he/she did then it would still be "with" me and easily replaced on my face.
Seadeuce
How often does this happen :D
seadeuce
30-12-2009, 19:18
Must be a bitch to change your mask under water, how long does it take?
Any mask change is easy - the "new" mask can go outside the hood if necessary and needed.
Seadeuce
seadeuce
30-12-2009, 19:20
How often does this happen :D
Not often.
But as the scouts say ...
Seadeuce
Not often.
But as the scouts say ...
Dib Dib Dib ;)
Nigel Hewitt
30-12-2009, 19:46
Must be a bitch to change your mask under water, how long does it take?
One of my favorite instructors wears his mask like this.
So I asked the same question.
He put on his mask and then his hood then grabbed the hood at his forehead and pulled it backward.
Suddenly he effectively wasn't wearing a hood just a big collar.
Mask off. Mask on.
OK it took two hands to get the hood back in place but the important bit was done in instants.
Frankly, as I have problems putting a mask back on in full gloves, I've wondered about switching to this way of doing things but I haven't made the change yet.
seadeuce
30-12-2009, 19:54
One of my favorite instructors wears his mask like this.
So I asked the same question.
He put on his mask and then his hood then grabbed the hood at his forehead and pulled it backward.
Suddenly he effectively wasn't wearing a hood just a big collar.
Mask off. Mask on.
OK it took two hands to get the hood back in place but the important bit was done in instants.
Frankly, as I have problems putting a mask back on in full gloves, I've wondered about switching to this way of doing things but I haven't made the change yet.
When diving abroad the above can be of benefit.
Begin the dive with your mask on around your head, the hood around your neck.
Hit one or two thermoclines (eg a la Galapagos) and you will need that extra comfort that is a hood up around your ears.
On the ascent, on returning to warmer waters, you may reverse the procedure and enjoy the end of the dive as you began.
Flexibility is everything!
Seadeuce
Oh! One other advantageYou don't need to reset your mask strap when diving without a hood.
Been doing it this way for years also. Makes teaching mask removals a bit chilly but I am hard pressed to think of another disadvantage.
Yazzyfooty
30-12-2009, 20:15
Not often.
But as the scouts say ...
Seadeuce
Gin gang goolie goolie?
Most "technical" divers (that I know and dive with) don't.
This is my experience as well.
Maria CM
31-12-2009, 09:59
I have been meaning to change to doing this but have been slightly foxed by the fact that I changed the strap for neoprene so it didn't pull my hair. When I try to put his under my hood it keeps moving... however.... haven't tried putting hood on as collar then pulling up, so maybe that will solve the problem. It has always seemed a much more sensible way of dong things to me.
best wishes,
Maria
I was at Capenwray earlier in december and was encouraged to try diving with the strap under my hood. What actually struck me most was the shock of cold water to the head when removing my hood to do mask drills. Not going to do that again:rolleyes:
Personally I think dive shops would be hard pressed to find a cheaper freebie to give away than the neoprene sleeve that slides over the strap to advertise their business.
Maria CM
31-12-2009, 10:09
I was at Capenwray earlier in december and was encouraged to try diving with the strap under my hood. What actually struck me most was the shock of cold water to the head when removing my hood to do mask drills. Not going to do that again:rolleyes:
Personally I think dive shops would be hard pressed to find a cheaper freebie to give away than the neoprene sleeve that slides over the strap to advertise their business.
..... but the average diver isn't going to be doing mask drills on every dive.....
best wishes,
Maria
ianfirmin
01-01-2010, 13:52
I was at Capenwray earlier in december and was encouraged to try diving with the strap under my hood. What actually struck me most was the shock of cold water to the head when removing my hood to do mask drills. Not going to do that again:rolleyes:
Personally I think dive shops would be hard pressed to find a cheaper freebie to give away than the neoprene sleeve that slides over the strap to advertise their business.
Ya soft jessie. I bet you keep your tee shirt on at footie matches too.
Ya soft jessie. I bet you keep your tee shirt on at footie matches too.
This from the "man" who didn't want to go diving today. :p
ChristianG
01-01-2010, 14:46
Must be a bitch to change your mask under water, how long does it take?
But why would you?
Richard Whitcombe
01-01-2010, 19:08
But why would you?
Constantly fogging, constantly leaking, glass falls out, strap snaps, thin fragile plastic clip holding strap snaps and so on.
ChristianG
02-01-2010, 08:46
Constantly fogging, constantly leaking, glass falls out, strap snaps, thin fragile plastic clip holding strap snaps and so on.
In quite a lot of years of always having the mask under the hood (when I'm wearing a hood at all), none of the above has ever happened to me, nor have I seen it ever happen.
OK, let's take them in order:
• Fogging: I always exhale into the mask having "washed" it out. If it fogs it tells me that stupid here was deficient in his washing technique.
• Leaking: One of the major reasons for "mask strap under hood" is that the mask has significantly less chance of doing precisely that.
• Strap snaps: Hallelujah, the mask isn't disappearing into the briny. besides, I feel that if a strap is going to snap it's likely to so in the act of donning the mask.
• Clip snaps: As immediately above.
graham nurse
02-01-2010, 08:58
For me there are lots of advantages for wearing the mask under the hood.
Less likely to get knocked off,
if a strap brakes you are less likely to lose your mask,
easier to get a good seal if the strap is under the hood.
Unfortunately all the advantages where out weighed by the fact that my head gets colder as more water flushes through my hood. I have tried this with more than one hood but the results are always the same.
Graham.
Yazzyfooty
02-01-2010, 10:33
In quite a lot of years of always having the mask under the hood (when I'm wearing a hood at all), none of the above has ever happened to me, nor have I seen it ever happen.
OK, let's take them in order:
• Fogging: I always exhale into the mask having "washed" it out. If it fogs it tells me that stupid here was deficient in his washing technique.
• Leaking: One of the major reasons for "mask strap under hood" is that the mask has significantly less chance of doing precisely that.
• Strap snaps: Hallelujah, the mask isn't disappearing into the briny. besides, I feel that if a strap is going to snap it's likely to so in the act of donning the mask.
• Clip snaps: As immediately above.
And if any of the above things occur then you would want to change masks and it is easier just slipping it ontop of your hood rather then remove mask, slide hood off head, replace mask, replace hood over head isnt it?
Graham if the strap breaks on your mask I agree there is less chance of losing it but you still need to change the mask and I reckon its far more faffing about when its under your hood.
ianfirmin
02-01-2010, 10:52
And if any of the above things occur then you would want to change masks and it is easier just slipping it ontop of your hood rather then remove mask, slide hood off head, replace mask, replace hood over head isnt it?
Graham if the strap breaks on your mask I agree there is less chance of losing it but you still need to change the mask and I reckon its far more faffing about when its under your hood.
I've used strap under hood for a long time now. I've also never had a mask strap break nor needed to change a mask under water. Nevertheless, I always keep a spare mask in a pocket. It squidges up flat and takes very little space. My rationale is that if it is needed, for me or buddy, then it really WILL be needed.
As a previous posted mentioned it's easy changing masks. Just pull the hood back, replace mask then put the hood back over the top of your head. The last movement requires two hands but it's quicker than faffing around getting the mask skirt under the edges of the hood.
One advantage I haven't seen mentioned is a psychological one, often applicable to newish divers. They can be nervous about losing their mask and often have the strap far too tight. So tight that their face and the mask skirt is distorted. The result is a leaking mask.
With the strap under the hood they feel more comfortable with a looser strap. Result: no leakage.
I'll always suggest to people that they try it out. Some like it, some don't but there is no harm in trying.
ATB
Ian
And if any of the above things occur then you would want to change masks and it is easier just slipping it ontop of your hood rather then remove mask, slide hood off head, replace mask, replace hood over head isnt it?
Graham if the strap breaks on your mask I agree there is less chance of losing it but you still need to change the mask and I reckon its far more faffing about when its under your hood.
Yazz
The other thing is if the mask strap does break or the clip shatters (which has happened to me), you don't actually 'need' to change the mask.
You just press it back in place & clear it, its not going anywhere, the lose end of the mask strap is trapped under the hood. The worst thing that happens is that you might need to clear it a few times during the remainder of the dive.
When the clip shattered on my mask I extracted from the wreck, did a turn or two around the wreck, got back to the shot, completed the majority of the deco before I bothered to change masks. It was a non issue. It might have been more fun if the mask strap was outside the hood, mainly because the mask would have seperated from me & potentialy dropped into the abyss over which I was positioned.
This is a non question, you either do it this way or not, there is no correct way.
Gareth
Some like it, some don't but there is no harm in trying.
That's the best advice (have a greenie).
In 30+ years of diving I've had one mask failure (lens fell out[1]). Its all down to personal choice.
Regards
Edward
[1] The mark had been crushed and cracked 12 months earlier, but it was so comfortable I did another 50 dives before it finally failed.
Yazzyfooty
02-01-2010, 11:33
Yazz
The other thing is if the mask strap does break or the clip shatters (which has happened to me), you don't actually 'need' to change the mask.
You just press it back in place & clear it, its not going anywhere, the lose end of the mask strap is trapped under the hood. The worst thing that happens is that you might need to clear it a few times during the remainder of the dive.
When the clip shattered on my mask I extracted from the wreck, did a turn or two around the wreck, got back to the shot, completed the majority of the deco before I bothered to change masks. It was a non issue. It might have been more fun if the mask strap was outside the hood, mainly because the mask would have seperated from me & potentialy dropped into the abyss over which I was positioned.
This is a non question, you either do it this way or not, there is no correct way.
Gareth
Gareth I respect your decision to continue with your dive and I assume this clip failure on your mask occured when you would be classed as experienced as you mentioned completing deco but for a newly qualified diver a problem with the mask and not replacing it and continuing with a dive could be the start of the journey travelling down that incident pit.
And if any of the above things occur then you would want to change masks and it is easier just slipping it ontop of your hood rather then remove mask, slide hood off head, replace mask, replace hood over head isnt it?It takes about 2 seconds to slide the hood off the back of your head and another 2 to refit it once the new mask is in place. The shock of the cold water when removing the hood is the only hard bit about it.
Graham if the strap breaks on your mask I agree there is less chance of losing it but you still need to change the mask and I reckon its far more faffing about when its under your hood.If the strap breaks, there is a good chance the hood seal will keep the mask in position so you do not immediately lose your sight. Just pull the mask off, the loose end should pull through around the back of your head. You can then fit the new mask over your hood, if you don't want to take your hood off.
Obviously (or not) if you change how you wear your mask you need to find some shallow water and complete a full set of mask drills.
Gareth I respect your decision to continue with your dive and I assume this clip failure on your mask occured when you would be classed as experienced as you mentioned completing deco but for a newly qualified diver a problem with the mask and not replacing it and continuing with a dive could be the start of the journey travelling down that incident pit.
You are correct in all comments.
If I had immediately aborted the dive, I would still have had to exit the wreck & either deploy an SMB (not what the skipper wanted) or return to the shot (our instructions), and then I still had decompression to complete.
I 'could' have changed masks at the time that the failure occurred, but there was no requirement. The mask continued to seal (after clearing), there was negligible risk of losing the mask (the strap was trapped), it was leaking a little, but I can clear a mask, so that was a none issue.
That said all of your comments above are still valid.
I don't normally suggest new divers place there strap under their hood, mainly because they are continuously doing exercises which include mask clearing.
I always dive with the mask strap under the hood. Even when teaching, prior to the mask clearing lesson I simply slide the hood off, or move the mask to outside the hood for the demonstration.
For most skills there is more than one way to do it. I 'tend' to stick to the standard technique the student has learned, but will often demonstrate alternates. I may well use an alternate if it helps a student resolve a problem.
It is important for the students to know that there is more than one way to do a skill, the balance is ensuring you don't overwhelm the student with too much information. Some techniques are better suited to different environments or circumstances. As much as anything else, its about teaching thinking divers.
Gareth
I too know people that dive with strap under hood. I use a 3rd option. Have stitched a velcro loop to the back of my hoods and find this safe and simple. Also carry spare mask in pocket though.
Kris2.
ChristianG
02-01-2010, 14:06
And if any of the above things occur then you would want to change masks and it is easier just slipping it ontop of your hood rather then remove mask, slide hood off head, replace mask, replace hood over head isnt it?
Graham if the strap breaks on your mask I agree there is less chance of losing it but you still need to change the mask and I reckon its far more faffing about when its under your hood.
Actually, I disagree. All you have to do is pull the offending mask strap out from under the hood and place the spare mask over the hood if needs must.
Mind, I consider a spare mask a redundant bit of kit anyway, you guys seem to carry spares for pretty well everything: spare shears, knives, masks, DSMBs, what else? I wonder how many people ever use this stuff underwater if things (in that department) go pear shaped? Actually I wonder whether the incidence of such an event justifies some of the spares in the first place.
I'm not, here, talking of torches, them things are 'lectric and 'lectric stuff has a distinct habit of dieing underwater.
ianfirmin
02-01-2010, 15:37
Mind, I consider a spare mask a redundant bit of kit anyway, you guys seem to carry spares for pretty well everything: spare shears, knives, masks, DSMBs, what else? I wonder how many people ever use this stuff underwater if things (in that department) go pear shaped? Actually I wonder whether the incidence of such an event justifies some of the spares in the first place.
Redundant? Exactly. In this context that means "not expected to be used".
I've got big drysuit pockets and I always carry:
A spare mask
Spare trauma shears
A spare depth gauge/timer (in my case an old Aladin Pro without the strap)
A small basic spare dsmb attached to a spool.
This lot takes up very little space. I occasionally practice using the spare mask and the dsmb/spool. I've never needed any of it but it's tucked away and not dangling. Weight and bulk is negligible. No additional task loading at all.
I agree that dropping into the water looking like a Christmas tree can cause real problems but when and if I really do need it then it's there and a comfort.
By your logic, since I've never had to use this stuff, then I shouldn't be taking it. I prefer the compromise of a very small bit of extra weight and bulk to make a potentially hazardous incident a lot happier.
ATB
Ian
Yazzyfooty
02-01-2010, 15:49
I too carry a spare flexible mask, dsmb and spool in my dry suit pockets and also use two dive computers. I have had to use spare dive computer once when the battery on my main one failed and I have also used my spare dsmb and spool when a scubapro reel i use to use got entangled for the last time as I decided to relegate it to the bin. :rolleyes:
I generally wear my mask under my hood but I'm in the minority on most boats I dive from. I also carry a spare mask (as well as a pocket full of other spares). The last thing I want to be without is my mask - especially if I have long stops to do.
I would recommend new divers carry a spare mask from the start - losing or breaking it on a dive can really spoil your day.
I do find wearing the hood over the mask allows a bit more flushing so I sometimes wear a two 3mm hoods with my mask strap between them - best of both worlds for me.
ChristianG
03-01-2010, 06:56
]By your logic, since I've never had to use this stuff, then I shouldn't be taking it. I prefer the compromise of a very small bit of extra weight and bulk to make a potentially hazardous incident a lot happier.
So OK, let's look at it another way.
Ignoring spring heel straps for the purpose of the discussion, conventional fin straps are much more likely to break in the water because they're in use and have different stresses placed on them during the dive - quite unlike a mask strap (or clip) which, once it's there, has no further stresses on it.
Do you carry a spare fin strap? Or should you, perhaps, also carry a spare fin complete with strap? I know, a ridiculous question if you ignore the reason it was asked.
graham nurse
03-01-2010, 10:00
So OK, let's look at it another way.
Ignoring spring heel straps for the purpose of the discussion, conventional fin straps are much more likely to break in the water because they're in use and have different stresses placed on them during the dive - quite unlike a mask strap (or clip) which, once it's there, has no further stresses on it.
Do you carry a spare fin strap? Or should you, perhaps, also carry a spare fin complete with strap? I know, a ridiculous question if you ignore the reason it was asked.
I and a lot of other divers carry redundant equipment so that in the event of a failure we can still get out of the water safely. If I lose a fin I can still navigate my way to the surface, it may not be stylish but it is achievable. If I lose a mask I am unable to read my instruments so will not know my depth or be able to time stops. The other huge problem is I am unable to cope with the huge head ache created by the cold when I am not wearing a mask.
Graham.
ianfirmin
03-01-2010, 11:48
So OK, let's look at it another way.
Ignoring spring heel straps for the purpose of the discussion, conventional fin straps are much more likely to break in the water because they're in use and have different stresses placed on them during the dive - quite unlike a mask strap (or clip) which, once it's there, has no further stresses on it.
Do you carry a spare fin strap? Or should you, perhaps, also carry a spare fin complete with strap? I know, a ridiculous question if you ignore the reason it was asked.
Not a silly question at all. I NEVER use conventional adjustable fin straps, only steel springs or (rarely) double surgical rubber straps I make myself. However, I do carry spare fin straps in the car just in case anyone else breaks one.
ATB
Ian
I sometimes wear a two 3mm hoods with my mask strap between them - best of both worlds for me.
That sounds very restrictive to me.
ChristianG
03-01-2010, 15:36
If I lose a mask I am unable to read my instruments so will not know my depth or be able to time stops.
The point is that losing a mask if the mask strap/clip breaks when underneath a hood is unlikely to happen. Not so otherwise and that is (perhaps) exactly why some of you have a second mask available.
Oh, you don't know how to use a mask without a mask strap? If so, why are you diving? Sorry, that may sound harsh but it's also a fact of life. Just as anyone incapable of swimming around down there without a mask on should not be there in the first place. If you really are afraid of this, buy a set of swimmers' goggles, the ones they use when racing in pools. They're a deal smaller than a mask (perhaps also a deal cheaper, however I've no idea) and all you have to remember is to don and doff them as you go up and down the water column. Good "mask leak" practice. Actually, also good buoyancy practice although your eyeballs might not think so.
No, I don't actually advise that option, at all. It's as fatuous as many others.
Maria CM
03-01-2010, 15:45
Where do people put all these things?????
Roll up snorkel, knife, shears, SMB and reel.... I haven't got room for anything else!!!
best wishes,
Maria
edit/ oh ... and two torches and a strobe attached to my smb
ChristianG
03-01-2010, 15:47
Not a silly question at all. I NEVER use conventional adjustable fin straps, only steel springs or (rarely) double surgical rubber straps I make myself. However, I do carry spare fin straps in the car just in case anyone else breaks one.
I suspected that you would use spring heel straps, but remember that I said something like "ignoring spring heel straps" and last time I looked, the vast majority of the diving public wouldn't even know what those are.
After all, we are, on these forums, largely talking of a fairly discerning style of diver or, at least, there are not a few of those contributing here.
Conventional "rubber" straps are a different kettle of fish entirely and my question is only silly if, as said, you take it out of context.
Where do people put all these things?????
Roll up snorkel, What's a snorkel :)
knife - harness waistbelt
shears - Right dry suit pocket
SMB and reel (spool) - Left dry suit pocket
edit/ oh ... and two torches - shoulder D rings of harness
Loads a room :D
A place for everything and everything in its place ;)
Maria CM
03-01-2010, 16:00
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maria CM
Where do people put all these things?????
Roll up snorkel, What's a snorkel - OK - I confess I got one when I found the cute thing you could roll up and started UK diving (pocket
knife - harness waistbelt - clamped to pressure guage
shears - Right dry suit pocket - same pocket as roll-up snorkel
SMB and reel (spool) - Left dry suit pocket - other pocket
edit/ oh ... and two torches - shoulder D rings of harness - one n drysuit pocket which I use most of the time, other with snorkel etc
Loads a room :D
Can't do dangly things:eek: they drive me potty, I spend all my time thinking people are tapping me or something...
best wishes,
maria
Can't do dangly things:eek: they drive me potty, I spend all my time thinking people are tapping me or something...
:confused: where are the dangly bits
Bit off topic since the thread is about mask straps
Hood under mask, have done for years never had a problem with it, have done the hood on hood off in warmer waters - when it's colder at depth but warm in the shallows.
As for where everything goes drysuit pockets waist pouch and strapped to backplate.
http://outlawdivers.org.uk/index.asp?page=19&photo=1995§ion=7&subsection=32&photopage=1
Maria CM
03-01-2010, 16:21
:confused: where are the dangly bits
Bit off topic since the thread is about mask straps
You obviously secure to D rings better than I do. When I do it, it is dangly or I can't see it properly to unclip it.
You obviously secure to D rings better than I do. When I do it, it is dangly or I can't see it properly to unclip it.
Clip the torch to the D Ring, then put a loop of bungy round it so it stays hard against the harness. If you need to use it slide your hand up or down the harness until you find the bungy, slip it down off the torch. Torch now dangles, turn it on but leave it clipped in place. It is easy to direct to see things but if you need two hands on something you just let go
Clip the torch to the D Ring, then put a loop of bungy round it so it stays hard against the harness. If you need to use it slide your hand up or down the harness until you find the bungy, slip it down off the torch. Torch now dangles, turn it on but leave it clipped in place. It is easy to direct to see things but if you need two hands on something you just let go
Careful! That way of rigging your lights is often described as "Hogarthian"
Janos
seadeuce
06-01-2010, 01:59
If I lose a mask I am unable to read my instruments so will not know my depth or be able to time stops. The other huge problem is I am unable to cope with the huge head ache created by the cold when I am not wearing a mask.
Graham.
Hey Graham,
Next time your underwater try this:
Place your mask on your forehead;
Place your computer (if on your wrist?) at the bridge of your nose right between your eyes;
Now tell me you have trouble reading without a mask!
Can't help you with the headache though...
Practised underwater nav without a mask for many a year that way. Works a treat with a compass. Everyone wondered how I managed to get back to base without my mask.
Drat! Should shut up... all my little tricks n .....
Seadeuce
graham nurse
06-01-2010, 04:15
Hey Graham,
Next time your underwater try this:
Place your mask on your forehead;
Place your computer (if on your wrist?) at the bridge of your nose right between your eyes;
Now tell me you have trouble reading without a mask!
Can't help you with the headache though...
Practised underwater nav without a mask for many a year that way. Works a treat with a compass. Everyone wondered how I managed to get back to base without my mask.
Drat! Should shut up... all my little tricks n .....
Seadeuce
I need to be able to read my hands sets properly, the head aches are to pain ful to cope with. I do have a spare mask in my right hand pocket though. If it somthing that you cannot complete the dive without take two.:)
Graham.
graham nurse
06-01-2010, 04:20
The point is that losing a mask if the mask strap/clip breaks when underneath a hood is unlikely to happen. Not so otherwise and that is (perhaps) exactly why some of you have a second mask available.
Oh, you don't know how to use a mask without a mask strap? If so, why are you diving? Sorry, that may sound harsh but it's also a fact of life. Just as anyone incapable of swimming around down there without a mask on should not be there in the first place. If you really are afraid of this, buy a set of swimmers' goggles, the ones they use when racing in pools. They're a deal smaller than a mask (perhaps also a deal cheaper, however I've no idea) and all you have to remember is to don and doff them as you go up and down the water column. Good "mask leak" practice. Actually, also good buoyancy practice although your eyeballs might not think so.
No, I don't actually advise that option, at all. It's as fatuous as many others.
Yes I do no know how to dive. I have been doing it for a couple of years all in cold water. I do carry a spare mask if it is a dive that I will be unable to complete with out it.
Graham.
The only time I've had to change a mask in anger was when the skirt split next to the lens. It's not just straps that break on a mask. I've seen a buddy's lens pop out as well although this was very early on in the dive.
If you have mandatory stops to make on your way up it would be very hard without a working mask.
As others have said if you need something to complete the dive safely then spares should be carried. I doubt anyone would struggle too much if they lost a fin, uncomfortable yes but manageable.
Ha! I once started a dive with only one fin.
Before I had heard of BSAC or any kind of training, some old school divers shoved their kit on me and dropped me into the Menai straits. Only about 6m, but it was quite an experience diving with kit that hadn't been serviced for 5 years, with a three year old fill of "vintage" air of about 30 bar. And to top it off, a fin strap broke just as I went under, so pretended I was a merman for the remaining 5 mins!
Luckily, the dive ended just before my air ran out!
This was in a 5mm wetsuit with no hood or gloves BTW. I was a bit chilly.
Gary Sedgwick
06-01-2010, 15:32
I'll always suggest to people that they try it out. Some like it, some don't but there is no harm in trying.
I'd never even considered wearing the strap under the hood, but had a play in our pool last night. And I have to say, I think I'm converted :cool:
What struck me most was that, in general, the remove/replace mask drill seemed easier, as you don't have to faff about getting the skirt under the hood material - just pull the hood down, do the drill, pull hood back over, job done. I was also using quite a thick and tight fitting hood, but the pulling it down to the neck and then back over the head was no problem.
Of course, doing this in cold water may be another issue altogether, so that's step 2 of the test plan - but I reckon a few seconds exposure of even very cold water to the head can't hurt that much :eek: But, if try to think back through all my mask "incidents", the most frequent has been the strap coming off the hood after entry from a RIB when I haven't had a hand free to keep it in place.
So, thanks James to indirectly introducing me to a new technique - have a greenie!
Gary
garethwoodruff
06-01-2010, 16:17
Ok, lots of pro's and cons as to why a mask strap under a hood is a good idea. Being BSAC the option is to complete your Ocean Diver, then go back to the pool with hood, gloves and mask and try both ways a few times and see what works for you.
In this case there is no correct answer, the idea is you become a thinking diver (unless hog looping is involved, but thats another story :rolleyes: ), so try both ways and see what works for you.
Personally I can't think of anyone I know that has their mask under their hood though.
Cheers,
gareth.
It's 3 degrees in Wraysbury at the moment. If I took my hood off in that, I'd cry to death.
Any time Gary:) Pleased that I can help.
It's 3 degrees in Wraysbury at the moment. If I took my hood off in that, I'd cry to death.
If I went diving in that I'd cry to death!
It's 3 degrees in Wraysbury at the moment. If I took my hood off in that, I'd cry to death.
Under normal circumstance you wouldn't need to take the hood off, even if it floods. You can easily clear it with the hood in position.
Its only if you are doing a 'demonstration' that you would need to take the hood off (or pull it back).
(Testing my new tag line:))
Gareth
Woz has reformed - all Woz pies to me please
If I needed to remove and replace my mask, I'd have to pull the hood back. In <5 deg water, that's a recipe for an ice cream headache from hell. I'd have to keep clearing the refitted mask cos of flooding from the tears.
And Fishy49- there's no such thing as a cold dive. Just the wrong suit. I've been toasty in 3-4 degrees for a 90 min dive. You just need the right kit.
If you have mandatory stops to make on your way up it would be very hard without a working mask.
Not aways the case...
It's quite simple to do using the HUD on a Sentinel... ;)
:)
there's no such thing as a cold dive. Just the wrong suit. I've been toasty in 3-4 degrees for a 90 min dive. You just need the right kit.
In that case a full face mask is in order my face gets freezing.
And Mark, do you own a sentinel? Any good? Just out of interest.
And Mark, do you own a sentinel? Any good? Just out of interest.
Yes, I do...
Any good? Well, I certainly think so! :D
:)
Have you ever dived an inspiration or evolution? Can you compare?
Have you ever dived an inspiration or evolution? Can you compare?
The only other rebreather I've tried was an inspo at the NEC in the BSAC pool, and to be honest, that's not an adquate method of trying out rebreathers.
So, I'd probably not be the best person to compare.
Not to mention the almost inevitable bias I'd have for what I currently own... ;)
:)
Fair enough. Can I ask why you chose the sentinel?
Nigel Hewitt
06-01-2010, 18:20
Have you ever dived an inspiration or evolution? Can you compare?
I had Inspo Classic and Inspo Vision (upgrade) for eight years and now a year on a Sentinel.
It still needs some work to overtake them but I'm waiting for the exciting bits now so watch this space (http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/sentinel/index.html).
If it somthing that you cannot complete the dive without take two.:) Weightbelt!
:D
curious , Your not possibly the famous "leg of Salmon" of YD fame are u by any chance.?
graham nurse
06-01-2010, 18:30
Weightbelt!
:D
No dont need one:D Belt is on under crutch strap so that two buckles need to be undone to relrease it. The most weight I have on the belt is 4 kg.
Graham.
Me? As far as I know, no.
Fair enough. Can I ask why you chose the sentinel?
No problem...
(well other than it's not easy for me to explain in a forum post) ;)
A lot of it was looking at what was available, and what features I did or didn't like. What features owners were adding after purchase to their own units.
The Sentinel ticked all the right boxes for me. BOV, HUD, no easily forgotten but essential O-ring, backmounted counterlung for an uncluttered chest, all out of the box.
To be honest, as a wannabe rebreather diver that I was, I only way I can say I made the right choice (for me), is through hindsight.
I found the Sentinel very easy to use and dive right from the start. I'm very happy with it.
:)
Thanks Mark for the feedback.
And thanks Nigel - I will be watching!
It still needs some work to overtake them but I'm waiting for the exciting bits now so watch this space (http://www.nigelhewitt.co.uk/diving/sentinel/index.html).
Not even a hint as to what? :D
:)
Not aways the case...
It's quite simple to do using the HUD on a Sentinel... ;)
:)
Spare mask is cheaper! :rolleyes:
Spare mask is cheaper! :rolleyes:
I have one of those too... ;)
ianfirmin
06-01-2010, 19:00
I once read an article in a shoddy dive mag about trapping a bubble in your eye socket which would allow you to see clearly.
I spent ages in the pool trying to do this and all I got was sore eyes and couldn't see a thing.
Ho hum..
Shhh... Don't call it shoddy! The unnamed mag (Diver UK. I read it as well, but never got round to trying it) is what a certain forum member, Mr Bantin, writes for!
Richard Whitcombe
07-01-2010, 09:52
That's partly what makes it shoddy.
I must say he doesn't half seem to be up himself in his reviews.
ianfirmin
07-01-2010, 16:34
I must say he doesn't half seem to be up himself in his reviews.
JB's articles are often the only things worth reading. Perhaps you find him "up himself" but he's been in the game for a loooong time and, it seems to me, he usually thinks about what he's writing.
In further defense the sub-editor's hand can be ungracious at times. Anyone who has written for any publication will tell of stuff being printed that often bears little resemblance to what was sent in.
ATB
Ian
Last months issue was a bit boring - just holidays destinations. But you must admit, he does like to blow his own horn.
Mike Halligan
07-01-2010, 17:35
I must say he doesn't half seem to be up himself in his reviews.
Appearances are frequently deceptive.
So your saying that he's a nice, modest bloke?
Ah Paul, that's because I am an exceptionally good instructor. In fact I am exceptionally good at everything I do - except DIY. :)
Even on this forum. Now you can't say that that's because of a sub-editor.
Maria CM
07-01-2010, 20:42
So your saying that he's a nice, modest bloke?
Even on this forum. Now you can't say that that's because of a sub-editor.
John is a master of the 'tongue in cheek' statement.
best wishes,
maria
tammy101
08-01-2010, 12:55
i've often wondered about this, and i really can't see any reason why a mask can't be worn under the hood :confused:
i mean, all it means is that you can't do certain drills but those drills are there to teach you what to do if your mask comes off!!
you can still flood and clear a mask with the strap under the hood, so why not just minimise the chances of the whole thing coming off in the first place by wearing it underneath :confused:
i'm only a new ocean diver so any answers to these questions would be most welcome :D
I agree. It seems to make far more sense. And you can do drills like mask removal, you just need to pull your hood down and wear it like a collar, as mentioned above.
From what I've seen and heard, it seems like a far more sensible way wearing your mask.
I agree. It seems to make far more sense. And you can do drills like mask removal, you just need to pull your hood down and wear it like a collar, as mentioned above.
From what I've seen and heard, it seems like a far more sensible way wearing your mask.Try it. I have. And dive with it over my hood. And a spare in my pocket.
The mask failures I've seen:
Lens falling out underwater
Split skirt
Holed nose pocket
And I've had it kicked off a couple of times and dislodged a few. It's never been a big problem getting it back on.
But if it doesn't come off in the first place...
Mike Halligan
08-01-2010, 14:39
So your saying that he's a nice, modest bloke?
First off, I have a deep mistrust of journalists and publicists. Yet, I don't know that John is a nice modest bloke and didn't say it, but after 15 years of reading his work on an occasional basis, I've found no particular reason to judge John in the same way as you. :)
It does strike me incongruous that such physical deformity as you suggest should be intended to mean he is big-headed. :confused:
i mean, all it means is that you can't do certain drills but those drills are there to teach you what to do if your mask comes off!!Believe it or not, those drills are also there to teach you what to do if you have to take your mask off!
you can still flood and clear a mask with the strap under the hood, so why not just minimise the chances of the whole thing coming off in the first place by wearing it underneath :confused: Where will you clip your snorkel :D
i'm only a new ocean diver so any answers to these questions would be most welcome :DGive it a try, just remember to repeat all your mask drills including the full removal and refit.
It does strike me incongruous that such physical deformity as you suggest should be intended to mean he is big-headed. :confused:
Come again?
I've found no particular reason to judge John in the same way as you. :)
Fair enough, thats just the impression that I get.
But if it doesn't come off in the first place...It will. At some point. And it's not always the mask coming off that's the problem.
Just give it a go in the pool and make your own mind up. Don't forget your gloves too. Bit trickier with gloves on. Then have a go in 4 degree water. And have A Bit of A Cry.
Alternatively, get a bucket, fill it with cold water from the tap, hold your breath and stick your head in it for 20 seconds. If you could video it and post the results up here then I for one will have an entertaining minute or so.
If it does come off even with the strap underneath the hood then put your spare on over your hood:)
If it does come off even with the strap underneath the hood then put your spare on over your hood:)
Ok. The above implies that you've accepted that a spare mask might be useful in some situations.
If you're carrying a spare mask you should be slick and proficient at putting it on.
If you're slick and efficient at putting on your spare mask, then it's not particularly relevant whether you have your mask strap over or under your hood.
Janos
PS - The only time I've swapped to my spare mask (other than when practicing) is when for some reason the mask I was using kept fogging up.
Absolutely - I won't dive without a spare mask.
So thats that sorted then...
ianfirmin
08-01-2010, 18:20
PS - The only time I've swapped to my spare mask (other than when practicing) is when for some reason the mask I was using kept fogging up.
I've always found that, however much I gob in it beforehand, after a few minutes sloshing around wet in my pocket, my spare mask fogs up more badly then the original. Still better than none though.
But, as they say, YMMV.
ATB
Ian
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