Encouraging new members

[Steve Walker]

The "falling membership numbers" topic was mentioned in the Dive Show thread.

Recently, (on another dive forum) there's been a fair bit of talk from other-agency divers who have investigated joining local BSAC branches, generally speaking these people have reported that they have not been made to feel particularly welcome nor encouraged. Ok, so it's a pretty small "sample size" and at least one contributor here has put forward a couple of reasons why folk aren't being welcomed, but it does seem like there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

The "falling membership numbers" topic was mentioned in the Dive Show thread.

Recently, (on another dive forum) there's been a fair bit of talk from other-agency divers who have investigated joining local BSAC branches, generally speaking these people have reported that they have not been made to feel particularly welcome nor encouraged. Ok, so it's a pretty small "sample size" and at least one contributor here has put forward a couple of reasons why folk aren't being welcomed, but it does seem like there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

I couldn't agree more Steve! Over the years I have visited many clubs, often unannounced and unknown, the welcome I have received has varied enormously. Some of the more active clubs have really got their act together, you cant show your face without being spotted by their 'new members officer' (or similar), other you just get ignored. But I must say that the majority I have visited are proactive and forward looking as you suggest.

We're currently putting together an information pack for branches, it's being constructed by HQ and our PR people and draws on the many great ideas and initiatives that our various branches have successfully used. It will give you hints, tips, ideas, strategies and a whole host of information designed to help branches get and keep members. So look for the announcement when it's ready, we know that it works because we've got branches actually doing it right now.

Keith L

[Will Swift]

there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

IMHO people want to dive, the BSAC should put more effort into actually going diving and helping clubs to go diving.

There are too many clubs who attract new members, provide training and puddle diving but little else. Good quality training is important but BSAC could exist without training, it couldn't exist without divers.

Just my take on what I've seen happening.

[Alan Taylor]

:=there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

IMHO people want to dive, the BSAC should put more effort into actually going diving and helping clubs to go diving.

There are too many clubs who attract new members, provide training and puddle diving but little else. Good quality training is important but BSAC could exist without training, it couldn't exist without divers.

Just my take on what I've seen happening.

I think you should have another look. What do you want History, photography, wreaks, conservation, or just boozing find a branch that does it.
Keep on BSAC Divin'

Alan

[Rich]

The "falling membership numbers" topic was mentioned in the Dive Show thread.

Recently, (on another dive forum) there's been a fair bit of talk from other-agency divers who have investigated joining local BSAC branches, generally speaking these people have reported that they have not been made to feel particularly welcome nor encouraged. Ok, so it's a pretty small "sample size" and at least one contributor here has put forward a couple of reasons why folk aren't being welcomed, but it does seem like there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

If I were looking around to dive for the first time and I encountered a club with a downbeat attitude, I would pretty much turn my back there and then and pursue a club elsewhere. Clubs really ought to realise that new members coming in are the future of the club, encouragement in the early days pays dividends in the long run.

My club is attracting new divers and established experienced divers from clubs that could almost be labelled 'non-diving'. I think BSAC could help clubs that have a notable downturn in membership a helping hand. Possible advice in recruitment, and pointers to retaining those currently on their books.

A good website helps, its the best noticeboard a club can have. It normally sows a seed within the head of the potential members, so that they feel like they want to join said club before they even set foot or fin in the pool.

For example; a good advert for a car with good write and a picture - you read the advert and normally half fall in love with the idea of actually driving the car before you have even seen it.

Publicise your club with a decent up-to-date website, and watch turn up in their droves.!

good luck
Rich.

[Alan Taylor]

:=The "falling membership numbers" topic was mentioned in the Dive Show thread.
:=
:=Recently, (on another dive forum) there's been a fair bit of talk from other-agency divers who have investigated joining local BSAC branches, generally speaking these people have reported that they have not been made to feel particularly welcome nor encouraged. Ok, so it's a pretty small "sample size" and at least one contributor here has put forward a couple of reasons why folk aren't being welcomed, but it does seem like there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

If I were looking around to dive for the first time and I encountered a club with a downbeat attitude, I would pretty much turn my back there and then and pursue a club elsewhere. Clubs really ought to realise that new members coming in are the future of the club, encouragement in the early days pays dividends in the long run.

My club is attracting new divers and established experienced divers from clubs that could almost be labelled 'non-diving'. I think BSAC could help clubs that have a notable downturn in membership a helping hand. Possible advice in recruitment, and pointers to retaining those currently on their books.

A good website helps, its the best noticeboard a club can have. It normally sows a seed within the head of the potential members, so that they feel like they want to join said club before they even set foot or fin in the pool.

For example; a good advert for a car with good write and a picture - you read the advert and normally half fall in love with the idea of actually driving the car before you have even seen it.

Publicise your club with a decent up-to-date website, and watch turn up in their droves.!

good luck
Rich.

As Keith has already said the bsaCLUB is working on that, it is BRANCHES that may need the help, but there is out there a branch for all interests( I hope) and as you say publisity is the key. BSAC has all kinds of programms for BRANCH use.

Keep BSAC BRANCH Divin'
Alan

[terryh]

The "falling membership numbers" topic was mentioned in the Dive Show thread.

Recently, (on another dive forum) there's been a fair bit of talk from other-agency divers who have investigated joining local BSAC branches, generally speaking these people have reported that they have not been made to feel particularly welcome nor encouraged. Ok, so it's a pretty small "sample size" and at least one contributor here has put forward a couple of reasons why folk aren't being welcomed, but it does seem like there's a lot of room for improvement if the downward trend in membership is to be halted.

All IMO of course.

We are a amalgamation of clubs from junior snorkelling branches
right through to die-hard techies. We still have insular
dinosaurs right next to "everybodies welcome". It is a plain
fact that club A is NOT going to be like Club B and so on.

So how do I, as Joe wannabebsac go about looking for and
joining a club that suits me. Welcome to the almost never
ending search for Nirvana! The holy grail that is a BSAC club
that does what it says on the tin. Sadly it involves a lot of
legwork and maybe even some condesending chat (especially
if you come from another agency). You may be lucky (I was after
3x clubs) and find one that you like, at least in this diving
season.

Or more likely you may get disillusioned by the whole process
and decide to give clubs (or more to the point BSAC clubs) a
miss. Result = one more lost opportunity and one prospective
new club member now bad-mouthing BSAC to all and sundry.

So there are good clubs out there, just can't find them.

Ok, lets' look at BSAC HQ.
They promote BSAC in most diving media, voice concerns etc.
with governing/authoritive bodies and if asked will point
prospective new members to local clubs etc. However this is at
National, not local level. Apart from promotion at major events
like Dive Shows etc, how much can BSAC do at this level?

Awnser = a lot for the Sport, but very little for the
individual. That's not really there fault, just one of those
fact's of life with any large organisation.

What's needed is a second tier of promotion. A core of BSAC
officers/Instructors in fact anybody BSAC who can promote at a
local level.
Let's refer to them as Salesmen. After all isnt that what big
firms do? They have Salesmen whose job it is to not only
service clients needs, but promote the firm with new products
and ensure that exsiting ones are being used correctly. So you
need a Salesman who is well into promoting BSAC and who goes
into clubs at a local level to promote same. These guys/gals
are on the spot and can be the first point of contact with
prospective new members. When asked the question "I want to
learn to dive" they can be pointed to a club heavily into
training. When asked "I want to go diving and am not interested
in Training" again they can be pointed to a club that does just
that.

Pretty soon all that annoying (and soul destroying) legwork
will be unneecessary as each "Salesmen" would be able to
instantly point the finger in the right direction.

So each area needs a BSAC member to promote BSAC, and that's
currently where BSAC fails, or does it?

Problem with BSAC? Lack of promotion by - yep you guessed it
area/regional coaches.

Now before I'm made to get into my asbestos suit, many coaches
are hard working and put a lot into SDC's and regional events.
Again that's the problem. The focus is on training and in many
cases acting like an emergency service. Going out to clubs only
when requested or there's a problem.

To trully promote BSAC you need to be THERE!
That's right visiting clubs not when asked, but on a regular
bases. Check out how they train, make sure they understand
the new DTP etc. Field enquiries, take mailshop orders.
Just take a look at many threads on here. The awnser inevitably
ends up with "see your coach". How much hassle might be saved
if that coach visited a club on a regular enough bases to be
approacable. Dont forget the quality feedback to HQ.

Of course all this "contact" would enable the coach to be
objective (and very accurate) when asked those joining
questions. So BSAC HQ could genuinly point in that direction.

You may say that this is what's done now in your area. If they
do it's the exception. If we are asking too much then split the
job and have a area coach and SDC co-ordiantor/trainer in each
region. Isnt this what we do in the clubs. DO & TO work
together one generally is involved in boat bookings etc, while
the other training.

Want to get more BSAC members? Engage the Coaching scheme into
marketing mode or add to it so that BSAC is PROMOTED at area
level. NOT SDC's, not IT schemes, but the very basic promotion
of our club at local level.



TerryH

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

All IMO of course.

Great post Terry!

Keith L

[pauls1149]

So you
need a Salesman who is well into promoting BSAC

This club should have 1,000s of salesmen - us the members we sould be salesmen(and women) for OUR club. Sell it at work - sell it on holiday - sell it at dive sites AND sell it in your own brances.

And no I am not a member of the coaching team, I am a BSAC diver and very happy to be one.

[terryh]

So you
:=need a Salesman who is well into promoting BSAC

This club should have 1,000s of salesmen - us the members we sould be salesmen(and women) for OUR club. Sell it at work - sell it on holiday - sell it at dive sites AND sell it in your own brances.

And no I am not a member of the coaching team, I am a BSAC diver and very happy to be one.

Sorry not in the real world.
Ask anybody why they want to join/are in BSAC and the awnser
will inevitably be, to go diving with a bunch of like-minded
friends. Our aligence (and mine) is to my local club (and
friends) first and BSAC Second. I would have as much loyalty
to a SAA club or PADI diving society. BSAC is a facilitator
a logistical focus, but to many not the holy grail.

The reason we need salesmen (or an adapted/reformed version
of a coach) is that they are truly independent of the local
club and can easily create a conduit between local and
national clubs.

The BSAC salesmen, rep call it what you will needs to visit
clubs, get out there, build a raport and build up an idea
of what's happening.

I'm guessing, but maybe years ago the coach had PR as part
of his/her remit instead of the total emphisis on SDC/training
etc.

Look at it this way. You are an employee of a firm, spout how
great you are to all and sundry. The office staff take orders
and deal with admin, again spouting how great the firm is.
Goes without saying that the board of Directors and the MD
spout the company line. So how about saving a vast wages
bill and sacking the sales force?

How long do you think the firm will last!!!!!

Or putting it another way. How long will BSAC last without
a decent local sales force/representative.

Imagine now your local area. A BSAC rep whos ONLY job is to
service BSAC branches and field/direct new enquiries to same.

Works for just about every firm on the planet. Why not BSAC?

TerryH

[Matt]

Imagine now your local area. A BSAC rep whos ONLY job is to
service BSAC branches and field/direct new enquiries to same.

Works for just about every firm on the planet. Why not BSAC?

Terry. BSAC is not like a traditional firm...possibly a franchising or holding company.

I agree that the National BSAC could do better promoting itself at the local, grass roots, level. A regular branch visit from coaches, say once every 6 to 12 months, would improve visibility no end for ordinary members. Far too many members join and leave without ever realising there is more to BSAC than their own branch. I would also like to see coaches/reps doing regular 'Meet the BSAC' events at dive shops, dive sites, in fact anywhere divers congregate.

You have used the term 'sales' regularly in your post. I wonder if you are aware of the difference between sales and marketing? Put simply marketing is concerned with getting your name around and providing information; in order that your prospective customers can make a decision. Sales however is about influencing the decision that customers eventually make. Salesman are biased, they have to be in order to persuade 'prospects' to buy whatever it is they are selling.

I would not want to see BSAC coaches/reps 'Selling' specific branches. That would be very unfair. Many of the people working at regional and National levels, are members of local branches. There is the potential for a conflict of interest which would not do BSAC any good at all. If BSAC go down the route of local promotion I think they need to stick firmly to marketing and not sales.

So how can we possibly make it easier for divers to find the right branch. Well one idea is to let branches differentiate themselves voluntarily. The branches tell BSAC whether they consider themselves a training branch, a teckie branch or whatever. The coaches/reps can then present that information during the marketing phase. Imagine, prospective members being given an info sheet listing contact details for every branch in the area and what each branch considers it's strengths. So we do not let coaches/reps 'judge' what a good branch is, but we do communicate that there are many different types of branch.

[Nigel Hewitt]

> You have used the term 'sales' regularly in your post. I wonder if you are aware of the difference between sales and marketing? Put simply marketing is concerned with getting your name around and providing information; in order that your prospective customers can make a decision. Sales however is about influencing the decision that customers eventually make. Salesman are biased, they have to be in order to persuade 'prospects' to buy whatever it is they are selling.

This is the case. We have Marketing. Virtually every diver in the UK knows about BSAC and you walk into ol' WH Smiths and we are on the cover of one of the major magazines. We need sales. ie: somebody putting people through the door at BSAC clubs.

> So how can we possibly make it easier for divers to find the right branch. Well one idea is to let branches differentiate themselves voluntarily. The branches tell BSAC whether they consider themselves a training branch, a teckie branch or whatever.

Sounds good. Anything must be better than the current *let's just turn away anybody NOT in our particular niche* system. I am fortunate in that my club wants divers that want to go diving (our niche) with an enthusiastic training section but my son arrived at college and was sniffed at when he mentioned PADI to the club there. OK so maybe they don't want somebody with a hundred or so UK sea dives and all his own kit but no teaching skills because their thing is training but they didn't need to be rude about it.

The problem comes when a club seems to confuse their own local doctrine (only Buddy Commandos with crack bottles here!) with the relatively broad church that is BSAC. Saying *we don't do that* should be followed by *but try these guys down the road*. Somebody at regional level who knows which club is which would be ideal because not all newcommers are pushy enough to ask questions like that and just go away.

nigelH

[David Walker]

So how can we possibly make it easier for divers to find the right branch. Well one idea is to let branches differentiate themselves voluntarily. The branches tell BSAC whether they consider themselves a training branch, a teckie branch or whatever. The coaches/reps can then present that information during the marketing phase. Imagine, prospective members being given an info sheet listing contact details for every branch in the area and what each branch considers it's strengths. So we do not let coaches/reps 'judge' what a good branch is, but we do communicate that there are many different types of branch.

I don't think simple definitions would work, since you'd always get mixtures, someone who does something slightly different, etc. If clubs wrote say a short piece about what they do and their srengths (compared to other clubs, so not "we teach diving to BSAC standards"), and then that could for example be listed on the website, and accessible to coaches. That way people can find the information for themself without having to go looking for coaches.

David

[Will Swift]

The problem comes when a club seems to confuse their own local doctrine (only Buddy Commandos with crack bottles here!) with the relatively broad church that is BSAC. Saying *we don't do that* should be followed by *but try these guys down the road*. Somebody at regional level who knows which club is which would be ideal because not all newcommers are pushy enough to ask questions like that and just go away.

nigelH

Agree 100% and once a diver is trained they may want more adventure than their initial branch offers, currently it is hard to know what other clubs are like in your area and difficult to leave the club without them feeling used.

The easy answer to finding a new club is 'they can simply troll around doing the calls and leg work to each branch' when in truth its easier to just go diving with a LDS and some mates, putting the BSAC/Club subs towards an extra 5 or 10 boat dives each year.

[gail humphries]

I've just joined a Lincoln Branch of BSAC and have been really encouraged by the enthusiasm and support I've received from the members. I've been given loads of advice about where to buy equipment; back issues of mags, and offers of help with loans of equipment etc. The training officer is really prepared to put himself out, and drove back all the way from Scotland yesterday to give me my first pool session, which was brilliant. My only concerns are the start up costs of buying equipment, and the logistics of getting my open water dives. Apart from that I'm really pleased that I joined.

[terryh]

Terry. BSAC is not like a traditional firm...possibly a franchising or holding company.


Perfect example of how definitions can sway the message.
I used the term "salesman", because they need to sell the
idea of BSAC. If you prefer to use the term "representive"
fine. We shouldnt get destracted by terms.
The point is that at present we are not visisted on a regular
basis (if at all) and without that regular contact, clubs
can (and IMO do) become insular.

The point of a BSAC rep doing the job of vetting/describing
each club is that they are better placed to be objective.
I'm sure that many clubs think they are training clubs when
they do half a dozen certs a year, while others call themselves
mega diving clubs, because they visit Stoney twice per annum.

IMO we need a local BSAC rep whoose ONLY job is to promote
BSAC.

TerryH

[Steve Walker]

If there's one way that BSAC misses out on self-promotion it's TV! Every time there's someone on telly who get some kind of Saturday night "Surprise! We're going to whisk you off for an all expenses paid learn to dive blah blah blah...." it's always that certain commercial outfit who's training is given. Same with those Noel Edmunds charity type emotion shows, where, for example, someone who's disabled is taught how to dive, it's invariably not BSAC that's being promoted.

One for the Marketing folks at HQ I think...

[Matt]

This is the case. We have Marketing. Virtually every diver in the UK knows about BSAC and you walk into ol' WH Smiths and we are on the cover of one of the major magazines. We need sales.

Fine we have one part of the marketing story right then. Making sure people know your name is important but it is not enough. You need people to associate the name with something they want. Without trying to be harsh; this is where BSAC Nationally fall over. They have not yet come to terms with who they are, what they represent or what they envisage as their role in the modern diving World. Unfortunately some people in BSAC have yet to realise that the World has changed and until they do...

ie: somebody putting people through the door at BSAC clubs.

OK that is still a marketing function. Unless we are going to see BSAC coaches (whoever), dragging divers into branches we are left trying to ensure people have the information they need to make the decision and walk though the door. I hear the phrase 'I thought BSAC were ...' far too often to believe the marketing is being done particularly well.

:=> So how can we possibly make it easier for divers to find the right branch.

Sounds good. Anything must be better than the current *let's just turn away anybody NOT in our particular niche* system. I am fortunate in that my club wants divers that want to go diving (our niche) with an enthusiastic training section but my son arrived at college and was sniffed at when he mentioned PADI to the club there.

I think it is fair to say that there are plenty of branches out there makeing some huge gaffs. Unfortunately I don't see the 'other agency divide' disappearing until BSAC positively and completely embrace equality at a National level. The other agencies are not going away. Whilst people at the top maintain 'BSAC is best' you really can't blame the troops for going along with it.

BSAC can attempt to be a parasite living off the back of other agencies success, or they can choose to be symbiotic existing with them. Starting from the basis that 'we are better' is a very good way to get up people's noses. Alternatively start with 'we are the same' and you have a dialogue. Without dialogue it is extremely difficult to sell anything.

OK so maybe they don't want somebody with a hundred or so UK sea dives and all his own kit but no teaching skills because their thing is training but they didn't need to be rude about it.

Absolutely agreed. But how would you propose stopping it from happening?

The problem comes when a club seems to confuse their own local doctrine (only Buddy Commandos with crack bottles here!) with the relatively broad church that is BSAC.

Not disagreeing. The 'broad church' is EXACTLY why BSAC Nationally need a simple, clear and strong message which they stick to like glue. It needs to be simple to communicate it to people that do not have intimate knowledge of the organisation. It needs to be strong and loud so it can be heard above the noise in the branches.

As an example of what I am on about, check out the first page of our branch website. Do you know what we are about by the 2nd sentence?

<a href="http://www.southseascuba.co.uk" >http://www.southseascuba.co.uk</a>

Pretty much every decision that our committee makes is measured against those two sentences.

Shame about the 3rd para but our web guy thought we should mention the BSAC. You might be able to spot where he has toned down my original wording ;-)

Saying *we don't do that* should be followed by *but try these guys down the road*.

I guess some branches will regard their neighbours as the competition.

Somebody at regional level who knows which club is which would be ideal because not all newcommers are pushy enough to ask questions like that and just go away.

As a branch chairman I would have a very big issue with BSAC regionally promoting another branch over my own. How can a coach or rep make a fair judgement? How as a branch can I make sure we are on the reccomended list? Will I be expected to brown nose my local rep? What if this rep happens to dislike me personally? I don't see how conflict of interest can be avoided. At some point the customer has to make his own decision. Considering the structure of BSAC I can see some benefits in the National organisation having some separation from the local branches. The risk to avoid is the customer blaming the National BSAC for local failure.

[Matt]

I used the term "salesman", because they need to sell the
idea of BSAC.

Sorry Terry I spent a while selling things...motorbikes mainly.

If you prefer to use the term "representive"
fine. We shouldnt get destracted by terms.

Just makes it easier if you use the right terms. Marketing and Sales are seperate process.

The point is that at present we are not visisted on a regular
basis (if at all) and without that regular contact, clubs
can (and IMO do) become insular.

I am less concerned about the insular thing. If the members of an insular club are happy being insular, let them get on with it. But I do think everyone should have the opportunity of finding out that the greater BSAC exists. It came as quite a shock to me when I eventually met my area coach, about 3 years after joining.

The point of a BSAC rep doing the job of vetting/describing
each club is that they are better placed to be objective.

They may be better placed, but it don't mean they will be.

I'm sure that many clubs think they are training clubs when
they do half a dozen certs a year, while others call themselves
mega diving clubs, because they visit Stoney twice per annum.

You are already attempting to make a judgement then.

IMO we need a local BSAC rep whoose ONLY job is to promote
BSAC.

Possibly. Do we have the resources?

[Geoff Oldfield]

First and formost any branch or club (BSAC / SAA etc) need to establish where they want to be in say five years time. Asking themselves several very important questions.

1 What type of diver do they want to attract? new or experienced divers
2. What does your club offer new members? New and Experienced
3. Why should they join your club?
4. What do other clubs in the area offer?
5. What facilities do you provide as part of the membership package?
6. Have you established a budget to finance the plans you have set out for the following five years and are the membership behind the budget you have set?
7. What plans are in place to attract new members - new and experienced divers?
8. Most important of all - are you looking after your existing members needs - because if you aren't, existing members will fall out at the bottom faster than you can top it up with new members. Remember that there will always be a dropout and effort must constantly be made to replace exiting members with new ones.


Remember that running a successful club is very much like running a successful business. We are finding that by improving our facilities and offering more and better facilies than other clubs in the area we are attracting new members both novice and those from other training agencies at a good rate. Costs are less of an issue, now we are able to demonstrate the benefit of a five year plan and budgeted investment in branch equipment like boats, compressor to provide nitrox clean free air to members, licenses clubhouse / lecture room, free pool session, training equipment etc. Don't get me wrong, it took a long time and a lot of effort to get to where we are today (50 years for our club) but it doesn't have to take that long with a determined membership.

Yes, Sales is what it is all about, but if you fail to deliver - on time, the business will crumble.

Geoff

[pauls1149]

IMO we need a local BSAC rep whoose ONLY job is to promote
BSAC.
Terry gets my vote to become the unpaid (like regional and area coaches) salesman / marketing officer / promotions rep.

[Nigel Hewitt]

&gt;&gt; ie: somebody putting people through the door at BSAC clubs.

&gt; OK that is still a marketing function.

We seem to have a different set of definitions. I am using Marketing in the sense of *generating leads* and Sales in the sense of *turning leads into customers*. It's just the terminology I've picked up in the computer business over the years so it may be wrong.

&gt; I hear the phrase 'I thought BSAC were ...' far too often to believe the marketing is being done particularly well.

Sadly I have to admit you're right.

&gt;&gt;&gt; So how can we possibly make it easier for divers to find the right branch.

&gt;&gt; Sounds good. Anything must be better than the current *let's just turn away anybody NOT in our particular niche* system.

&gt;I think it is fair to say that there are plenty of branches out there makeing some huge gaffs. Unfortunately I don't see the 'other agency divide' disappearing until BSAC positively and completely embrace equality at a National level.

There are advantages and disadvantages of both systems. The time taken by a BSAC course is both a strength and a problem. Look at the *Duke of Edinburgh's Award* thread elsewhere. The girl did six months of class, pool and exams but never qualified as OD. I would have thrown the teddy out of the pram long before six months.

&gt;&gt; Somebody at regional level who knows which club is which would be ideal because not all newcommers are pushy enough to ask questions like that and just go away.

&gt; As a branch chairman I would have a very big issue with BSAC regionally promoting another branch over my own. How can a coach or rep make a fair judgement?

The idea is that it is somebody who does know. If you were the Branch Chariman of 'Buddy Commandos with Crack bottles' SAC having me walk in the door with PADI MSD and an Inspiration full of trimix is just wasting your time.

BSAC's wide user base should be our strength. There will be somebody doing your thing. However if we are not making it easy to point the *lead* at the right *product* we don't make a *sale*. That is a salesman. It's not the mindset of a regional coach but more of a regional rep. You might find them both in one person but it would be unfair to put them both in one job description.

nigelH

[terryh]

:=IMO we need a local BSAC rep whoose ONLY job is to promote
:=BSAC.
Terry gets my vote to become the unpaid (like regional and area coaches) salesman / marketing officer / promotions rep.

Yeah right, so I'll stop being the TO & EO + teaching/arranging
at least 20 trips per annum!!!!!!!!

There are many out there who are socialble, approachable and
are not into club politics (and therefore dont want to take on
a individual club role) who would however take on a larger BSAC
promotional role.

If you strip away any involvment with SDC's or regional events
then what's left is pure marketing/admin. I would suspect that
there are many that would enjoy such a role without having to go through the hoops of becoming an AI (neccessary for SDC's and
coaches).

All that's required is a love of the sport + a reasonable
grasp of diving in general. DL should suffice or even a Sports
diver who has a few under his belt. A PADI crossover would be a
bonus. But in the end enthusiasm is more important, the rest
can be learnt.

TerryH

[Matt]

We seem to have a different set of definitions. I am using Marketing in the sense of *generating leads* and Sales in the sense of *turning leads into customers*.

I think Marketing is best described as 'generating a response' The ultimate reason for Marketing is as you say, to generate leads. Sales is a far more focused process. The best way the difference has been explained to me is ask; Who is in control? If your working on the prospects terms your marketing. If your working on your terms, your selling.

There are advantages and disadvantages of both systems.

As far as a dive club is concerned it doesn't matter how people choose to get trained or what banner they choose to get trained under. BSAC or PADI training is just a means to an end. A dive club is generally going to be able to provide more opportunities for involvement to a qualified diver. What counts is that members can enjoy themselves relatively safely and do not place other members at risk.

The time taken by a BSAC course is both a strength and a problem.

Which is why I try not to sell courses. Courses are a short term sale. I concentrate on selling involvement.

Look at the *Duke of Edinburgh's Award* thread elsewhere. The girl did six months of class, pool and exams but never qualified as OD. I would have thrown the teddy out of the pram long before six months.

Sometimes it takes 6 months. We sometimes can't train people as fast as they like, we can however reccommend a local school - because that also encourages diving. So get trained elsewhere and then we can offer you more opportunities to be involved and get value for your subs.

By appealing to divers in general, I get to point out the benefits that being a BSAC member provides; Insurance, a magazine, access to inexpensive training, various offers. Although we are proud to be an open branch 98 out of our 100 members have chosen to join BSAC. Another interesting statistic is that last year we recruited more members from refferals by one of the local PADI shops than from direct advertising.

Being an open branch is the marketing tool. What I 'sell' is involvement in a dive club. Based on that foundation BSAC membership largely sells itself.

:=&gt; As a branch chairman I would have a very big issue with BSAC regionally promoting another branch over my own. How can a coach or rep make a fair judgement?

The idea is that it is somebody who does know.

Define 'know'? What you would get is the idividual reps opinion, which will vary from that of individual branches. I don't see that as conducive to a harmonious working relationship.

If you were the Branch Chariman of 'Buddy Commandos with Crack bottles' SAC having me walk in the door with PADI MSD and an Inspiration full of trimix is just wasting your time.

I don't want a BSAC rep deciding what is and is not good use of my time. The suitability of a branch to a member is a matter between the branch and the member. By all means provide prospective 'customers' with information so that they can make an informed decision as to which branches they approach. By all means 'sell' the advantages of being a BSAC member - saves me a job. The moment a rep reccomends a branch, they have enganged in selling that branch. It would be unfair to all the other branches that happened not to be reccomended.

BSAC's wide user base should be our strength. There will be somebody doing your thing. However if we are not making it easy to point the *lead* at the right *product* we don't make a *sale*.

Equally if BSAC point the lead at a branch which fails to live up to expectation, BSAC will get the blame. That may well be enough to deter the lead from visiting any other BSAC branches or buying BSAC membership seperately. 'The easiest way to lose a sale is to give the customer a reason not to buy'

If BSAC treat all branches as equals, any subsequent disagreement is then between individuals and their branches. It also stops struggling branches from blaming the local rep for their misfortunes. The message BSAC need to convey to both memebers and non-members is that there are many branches with differing priorities. A list of branches and what each branch considers it's priorities conveys that message, remains fair and leaves the decisions firmly with the customer.

BTW I would not simply ask branches to make a free form statement or tick all that apply. You need to frame the question; place the following activities in order of importance.

That is a salesman. It's not the mindset of a regional coach but more of a regional rep. You might find them both in one person but it would be unfair to put them both in one job description.

Quite possibly. I might argue that if the role is restricted to providing information it would not be beyond the bounds of a coach.

Basically I think Terry is right, the National BSAC should be more visible in branches - they need to look after their customers. A regular branch visit or an event in the vicinity, is a great idea to start with whoever happens to do it.

If BSAC can find suitable resource to dedicate the position then dedicate the position. If not, the function is important enough (AFAIC) to use whoever is available. I don't think it is too much to ask that every BSAC member should get the opportunity to (easily) meet a National BSAC rep before their renewal becomes due.