Cylinder / valve new EU regs

[Geoff Oldfield]

Can anyone provide the latest news on these proposals, what they are and if or when they are to be implimented. also what, if anything the BSAC is doing to oppose these moves.

Thanks

Geoff Oldfield

[nick kay]

Advanced warning - UK commercial providers of nitrox and anyone using nitrox/mixed gas (i.e. anything that is not plain breathing air) will have to comply with new European standards (BS EN 144-3 and BS EN 13949).
?HSE recommends that irrespective of the marking requirements, cylinder valves designed, manufactured and tested to BS EN 144-3 and BS EN 13949 be used for all gases other than air?

When?
?HSE recommends that the diving industry decide on a date when these two standards should be used for all Nitrox and oxygen diving breathing apparatus.? As previously recommended the diving industry should consider 1 July 2005 as an implementation date for all cylinder and cylinder valve changes subject to the possible introduction of ISO standards which should be clarified before finalising this date to avoid another change in the near future?

[nick kay]

What equipment does this refer to?
This will apply to pillar valves and first stage fittings. This is not a measure to prevent divers accidentally using air instead of nitrox nor diving with the wrong gas mix ? it is more related to the filling of cylinders (to ensure that only O2 clean cylinders can be filled with nitrox) and the carriage of dangerous goods. The start date for these standards is July 2005 and will possibly become mandatory in August 2008.

The new pillar valves appear to be in the style of the present air DIN-fitting, but with a larger diameter thread (M26 instead of BSP 5/8") and O-ring on the outlet connection.

The standard states: "This European Standard is applicable to a thread connection used for the connection between a gas cylinder valve and a pressure reducer for respiratory equipment for diving containing breathable nitrox gas with an oxygen content greater than 22 % or oxygen.?

[David Watt]

I would be interested to know BSAC's position on this.

It seems yet another attempt to overregulate diving. Involving divers and dive shops in unnecessary additional expense.

How will the regulations affect those with A-clamp style valves? What if adapters are made to convert from one size to another, as I am sure they will be. This will make a nonsense of the regulation.

It would be interesting to know what is driving this. Have there been many incidents of O2 being put in non-clean cylinders?

Regards

David Watt

[Nigel Hewitt]

> I would be interested to know BSAC's position on this.

BSAC will wait to see how it works out in practice so they can give an informed view.

> It seems yet another attempt to overregulate diving. Involving divers and dive shops in unnecessary additional expense.

And that will inconvenience what government department?

> How will the regulations affect those with A-clamp style valves? What if adapters are made to convert from one size to another, as I am sure they will be. This will make a nonsense of the regulation.

You can already get the adapters. I've filled cylinders with that funny outside thread thing (which we can hope will now be swept under the carpet and forgotton). These will be just new adapters to go with the versions of DIN and A-clamp and pin-index things we deal with already.

> It would be interesting to know what is driving this. Have there been many incidents of O2 being put in non-clean cylinders?

It probably happens quite a lot. I tend to think that a cylinder is not clean if I don't know where it was filled so that is most of them. Hence I put oxygen in very gently and keep it good and cool until the air top is well underway. Now if I didn't think it was oxygen service I wouldn't touch it. Oxygen clean cannot be maintained with a fancy fitting - it needs a fancy filter.

The question should be: have there been any problems that would have been avoided by these new fittings? If somebody will point me to a list of oxygen fires in dive shops I will happily produce statistics. I have only ever read of three and they all involved the most appalling malpractice (not on the web sadly). No change in a valve thread will stop a fool because fools are too ingenious.

When the EU got into harmonising things they set up departments to write EU regs. They went off and read up all the existing member state regulations and condensed out common versions. This took years. However when they came to the end of the job instead of giving them all a good redundancy settlement and a great reference they kept them on and so, to fill in the time, they go out and look for new things to regulate.

*sigh* Such is bureaucracy. Please remember you are paying for this.

nigelH

[David Walker]

Now if I didn't think it was oxygen service I wouldn't touch it. Oxygen clean cannot be maintained with a fancy fitting - it needs a fancy filter.

Oh god don't say that - next they'll have filters built into the valves, with mandatory monthly services, costing ?50 each time!!
They don't need any opportunity to have stupid ideas put in their heads!

David

[Dominic Humphries]

it is more related to the filling of cylinders (to ensure that only O2 clean cylinders can be filled with nitrox)

What, is it going to be illegal to have the new valves on a cylinder that's not been O2 cleaned within the last year?
:o)

[Paul Oliver]

And since when have you had to be O2 Clean for less than 40%? Unless you are putting the 100% in first and then topping up.

This BS is kind of defeating the idea of quality filling from membrane Compressors and putting a hinderance on safer diving at all levels using Nitrox.

Very good point Dominic and well spotted.

Regards

Paul

[Dave]

And since when have you had to be O2 Clean for less than 40%? Unless you are putting the 100% in first and then topping up.

Under HSE guidelines, for a long while. HSE states that O2 cleaning should be perfomed for anything exposed to 23% or greater

This BS is kind of defeating the idea of quality filling from membrane Compressors and putting a hinderance on safer diving at all levels using Nitrox.

Not if you abide by the HSE guidelines it isn't.

Dave

[Paul Oliver]

Well obviously HSE are not too concerned as they opposed the change over here but were out voted by the Eurocrats.

The germans appear to be the driving force on this and they are already making adaptors, which kinda defeats the object in the first place don't it?

Having spoken to the BSAC Technical Department today, the training agencies are attending a meeting with the HSE at the end of April. If they object HSE are prepared to drop the change, so sounds very much like a lot of nonsence about nothing.

Regards

Paul

[dave humm]

"It would be interesting to know what is driving this"

How about ?????, $$$$$ and that crap Euro I don't have a key on my KB for !

[PeteM]

that crap Euro I don't have a key on my KB for !

Yes you do, its the 4/$ key. Hold down Ctrl and Atl and press it and assuming your PC is running on something approaching a 21 centrury OS you will get ?????????