Semi Dry suits advice please [Archive] - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

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voltiana

29-11-2009, 21:45

Tony Dwyer

29-11-2009, 21:51

Hi all

I have started to shop around for my semi dry in preperation for my first open water dive, however I have discovered that it is most likely going to be impossible for me to find an of the peg one. Mainly becuase of my shape and build I am short(5ft 1) but have voluptious girlie bits and large calves.

Any suggestions on the best place to get one would be grateful as hubby is getting me this as my xmas pressie

Volty

If your figure is as described you are not going to find it easy to find a suitable semi-dry. If you must have one, rather than a dry suit give John a call at Bel Air in Southend. He does bespoke suits. You can find his phone number here.

http://www.touchsouthend.com/business/list/bid/924359

You are not likely to be able to get on for Christmas.

tammy101

30-11-2009, 12:54

don't namron do custom made wetsuits? maybe they do dry suits too :confused:

voltiana

30-11-2009, 15:53

Thanks guys visted my LDS today and now have a MTM one on order. Bit more then hubby thought it would cost but its going to be worth it. Hopefully it will be here before Xmas

Volty

Richard Whitcombe

01-12-2009, 11:14

Still can't fathom the logic in paying loads for a wetsuit for UK winter diving when for not a lot more you can get a drysuit that will actually keep you comfortably warm.

Kieran

01-12-2009, 15:05

I have to agree there, for the expense of a bespoke wetsuit you may aswell pay a little extra and get a much more comfortabe and safer drysuit. It's not nice getting into a wet semi dry in 25 degrees heat never mind 5.

bakerstreet

08-12-2009, 09:36

Yup. Custom semi-dry for UK waters is a waste of money IMO.

Multi layer semi drys can also be quite heavy and that can be a pain for travelling.

I need a new dry suit. Been pressure tested by the LDS three times and they still cant find a leak, yet, I am still getting a damp crotch :(

Nigel Hewitt

08-12-2009, 10:16

Any suggestions on the best place to get one would be grateful as hubby is getting me this as my xmas pressie
This is obviously drysuit money as men are good at paying for toys.

voltiana

29-12-2009, 20:09

Ok Semi Dry arrived on Xmas eve just in time to go under the crissymas tree. First dive set for 3rd January any tips on how not to get too cold would be appreciated. I know I am going to get cold.... but what is the best way to stay warm between dives as we most likely will end up doing two.

Volty

paul_c

29-12-2009, 20:58

i am diving in a 2mm wetsuit at the moment (yes it is in the UK) and i am doing the following

the sea on boxing day was 10deg at the surface and 8deg at 18.5 meters. i did 38 mins including a 3 minute stop

1) spend some time aclimatising on the surface before starting the dive. it lets you get comfy then you go down. also it lets you warm the water up pre "dive"
its the intial hit fo the water which is cold and knocks the wind out of you. it makes me breath rapidly for a minute or two then i get things under controll and can dive comfortably

2) agree a signal to end the dive if you are cold. AND dont be afriad to use it. and dotn do it when you are right on the limits of your endurance, when you start realy feeling the cold instead of being aware of it (hard to describe, i feel the cold water on my skin as a sensation. i then can carry on happily. its when i start to feel the cold getting deeper and more intense that i know i have about 15/25 minutes of comfortable diving time left).

also dont push yourself time wise for the first fw times. get used to the cold first.

3) during the dive keep ALL of your extremities moving, use fingers alot to keep them warm and working, fin to keep warm and use your arms a bit (poor practice by some, but it keeps your muscles all working and creating warmth) also it helps keep warm water circulating around.

4) energy. you WILL need alot of it. dont miss breckfast or have a healthy day. stodge is good. you will burn it off keeping warm.
i have as a rule,

breackfast
3-5 bacon
1 or 2 eggs
3 hash browns
fried bread

about 2 hours after i have a bacon n egg bap just as i get onto the boat but thats cause im a porker

i drink tea enroute to the dive site, do my dive then when i come back up i then have soup, something thick n hearty not something watery and tastelss and more tea.

lunch is at this time of year (boats out, in out in not out dive dive in) somehting from a chippy
refill flasks with tea.

repeat.
take biscuits or flapjacks. something which has high energy levels for snakages

you need this to keep your energy topped up throughout the day.

post dive.

2 thinsg you can do

get out of the suit as fast as you can and into dry clothes and then redon the suit for the next dive

OR have some realy good wind protection you can toss on fast. wind chill is the biggest killer. 5 minutes for me to go from ok to shivering if i dont do this.
and take a warm overlayer i have a russian army winter jacket i use which gets me nice n warm nice n fast.

i do number 1 as its much more comfy.
it also has the bonus of the suit being wet you dont have to aclimatise as much on the surface before the next dive. (my suit is always wet so im laughed at as i moan when i put it on)

NEVER be afriad of saying no, the conditions are to cold/manky or whatever. its beter to not dive than dive in totaly unsuitablke conditions.

NEVER be afraid to say NO im cold i want to end the dive.
never be afriad to end a dive for any reason including being bored. a GOOD buddy will repsect that.

some people advocate warm water flushes. i personaly dont do this. because all it means to me is there s a greater temperature diferance between your skin and the water.

northern_diver

29-12-2009, 21:09

Wind proof, hat and gloves, on top of your semi dry (+shortee?):)

Hats a always inportant, due to the significant portion of body head lost via the head. Various figures are suggested, but its easy to cover so might as well for the benefits that can be reaped.

Gloves, well, everyone likes warm hands and its always useful to be able to able to use your hands. Its another easy to cover area so might as well be. Some people use medical/lab latex/nitrile gloves (such as me) under the gloves to help get dive gloves on. Garage gloves work, but are more flimsy.

Most importantly, a comfortable wind proof. Wind Chill is a massive casue of any cold feeling. It can be very cold around, but windless and be quite bearable, but as soon as any wind is introduced, the effects can be deversating.

Also importantly, keep the semi-dry on and zipped up, including the shortee if used. Any water trapped between the neoprene and skin will be warmed by the contact and help you cope with the conditions. Taking off the suit before finished diving will conter this and make you feel cold. Works on the same principals the suit uses underwater/flushing etc.

Do enjoy your diving. If you do feel cold, dont try to stay it out unduly. No one will winge at you (or they CERTAINLY shouldnt) for pulling a dive. Its not nice been cold.

HTH

John

P.S

Kieran- please could you explain what you mean by 'safer drysuit'? In the context of your post. As it is, i agree with the rest of your post, but i can see only one way that they can be considered 'safer', but several where they can be considered more dangerous.
I have to agree there, for the expense of a bespoke wetsuit you may aswell pay a little extra and get a much more comfortabe and safer drysuit. It's not nice getting into a wet semi dry in 25 degrees heat never mind 5.

Baker street- Could that damp crotch me the result of maybe sweat? I always seem to feel damn on my behind when in my suit, but i dont get leaks there or anything alone those lines. Along with the head/face the groin is a area of large heat loss, so could be casuing you to sweat in that area.
I need a new dry suit. Been pressure tested by the LDS three times and they still cant find a leak, yet, I am still getting a damp crotch

paul_c

29-12-2009, 21:23

yes i forgot to mention head covers.

i wear a simple baseball cap, but the principle is the same.

its around 20% iirc of body hear is lost though the head.

although the situation of where the dives are will make the question of what do do with the suit

Richard Whitcombe

30-12-2009, 14:51

its around 20% iirc of body hear is lost though the head.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

Not really, no different to any other item of clothing. Yes wear a hat but its not because you lose most heat from your head!

As for "safer" drysuit comment i agree - Hypothermia can be dangerous or life threatening and ive seen MANY cases of it by people forced to dive in wetsuits in the UK winter (and some in summer). Also if sea diving on a boat and are lost for a few hours a wetsuit might kill you before found whereas with a drysuit survival time is far far longer.

PeteM

30-12-2009, 15:48

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour

Not really, no different to any other item of clothing. Yes wear a hat but its not because you lose most heat from your head!

I heard a story a few years ago that said the original idea about most of your heat loss being through your head was based on a study of neonatal babies, who's heads are proportionally a lot large than adult heads. If it is proportionally larger then you will loose proportionally more heat through it

northern_diver

30-12-2009, 16:26

Regardless of the actual percentage, which will change from person to person, difference in internal temperature and external temperature and health among other reasons, its still a site of considerable heat loss. Hence why on a thermal image, the face, chest and groin glow so much. So its worth covering, im glad we all agree with that.

As for 'safer', thats not a comment i can agree with wholeheartedly. No one can really force you to go diving, if it too cold for you, dont dive, SIMPLE. So the leaves of warm etc cant really be used.

You cant get a stuck inflator valve on a drysuit and Polaris missiled to the surface.

You cant get air migration and shot to the surface in a wet/semi...for that reason anyway.

You cant get flooded and screwed up that way with a semi/wet.

While sure, you can lose your weights or over inflator your BC etc for what ever reason (chiefly been sloppy with the controls or getting it stuck) that can just as easily happen in a dry suit.

Have some considerations of mobility with drysuits/wet/semi, but thats a mixed opinion and debatable if its a risk or benefit.

Dry suits compared to wet/semi's (and vise versa) aint really 'safer' per say but a different tool for different jobs. I freely admit i love my drysuit and would much prefer to use it over a semi/wet, but its got more tasks involved and more to go wrong. So i cant honestly say 'safer'. Bit pedantic, but thats NEVER stopped anyone else on the forum.

Strikes me sometimes we get too used to equipment and then associate it with safety, just because its common place. But get complacent to the actual risks, where for the sake of a little comfort, we increase the failure points.

John

Tony Dwyer

30-12-2009, 16:45

Generally I prefer diving in a wetsuit, given appropriate water temperature. Such a wetsuit would be usually be 3mm or thinner, Mucho flexible.
In fact, I prefer a skin suit in suitable temperatures. Sadly I don't get to experience those too often.

So, I mostly use a drysuit for UK diving, but on balmy sunny summer days for shallow inshore dives, I like my 5 mm suit.
I've tried a 3mm suit in open water in the UK and frankly it both sucked and blowed. It was simply not adequate. I have used a 3mm suit while windsurfing, but then I was working quite hard. :)

I remember early days of diving in home made wet suits. We weren't hard rufty tufties, we were cold, often VERY cold.

Tony Dwyer

30-12-2009, 16:53

Are you a marine mammal in disguise or perhaps an Iniut?

Do you have some form of hyper insulating wet suit that I've not seen before?

If I did what you describe I would be very cold and in great trouble very quickly.

What you describe as acclimatisation would be pre-chilling for me and would hasten the onset of hypothermia.

I've done winter survival training and throughout it was stressed that ANY chilling was to be avoided if at all possible.

I would strongly advise any newbies here-abouts to NOT try to dive in UK open water in winter in a 2 mm suit. It could easily kill you, rather quickly.

R.Burgess

30-12-2009, 17:32

I was out last Mon in a wetsuit. 7mm beaver steamer 7mm jacket, 4th element thermorcline underneath. There was snow on the ground. It was cold maybe-4. I find the jacket makes my trim very foot heavy. It wasn't to bad in the water, I've been colder in a dry suit and weezle. We only did the one dive. It was over 40 min. Standing outside on ice in temps below zero, stripping to the skin, soaking wet wasn't the highlight of the dive, but the viz was good. I was shivering a bit on the surface getting changed but so was my buddy in a drysuit. I'm thinking about going out tomorrow.:D

paul_c

30-12-2009, 18:04

Tony Dwyer

30-12-2009, 22:50

neither would i. i am talking about general wetsuit diving. i do have a 5mm suit for if it gets realy cold.

edit

to clarify

i have never felt the cold. people always comment on how warm i am constantly

in russia, at -22 at night i was far to hot in shorts n tshirt in my artic sleeping bag (yes i was kipping on snow)

out of the tent in general normal weight UK com bat trousers and my russian army winter jack UNZIPED i was to hot. i had to ditch the jacket to do any exercise before i overheated

yet in the heat i wilt and die very very fast

im wearing a 2mm suit because 1) i cba to re weight myself for the 5mm, 2) i feel fine in it. and that is the crux. I feel fine. other wont be.

It seems to me that you must have an extremely high metabolic rate. Are you a native Russian, perhaps adapted to cold?

Or perhaps just telling enormous porkies? :) No offense intended.

Most people, even an Inuit, would die very quickly in -22 conditions if not wearing very efficient insulation. A Polar Bear would survive because it has evolved to cope, but a human? No.
A very good sleeping bag could provide enough insulation, provided there was no wind chill. I would not want to be sleeping in the open in such cold.

ChristianG

01-01-2010, 15:52

You cant get air migration and shot to the surface in a wet/semi...for that reason anyway.
Really?

You cant get flooded and screwed up that way with a semi/wet.
Really?

Or could it be that you got your suits severely mixed up?

Edit/: Amendment, sorry, I got that post severely screwed up, IOW I'm wrong.

ChristianG

01-01-2010, 15:55

Kris2

01-01-2010, 16:15

A semis always handy for the summer months. However if you intend to dive regularly through the winter you seriously need to get a dry suit. Its not the water temp that gets you its the air temp and wind when you climb back on the boat.

voltiana

03-01-2010, 18:47

Did my first two dives today in the Semi dry, apart from the occasional flush down the back and finding myself cold towards the end of the second dive it was ok, not as bad as I thought it would be.

Hopefully next time the water temperature might be better( was 6-8 degrees at Stoney today)

Volty

micromouse

03-01-2010, 19:12

Actually dear it hit 5!!!

Congrats

MM

Maria CM

06-01-2010, 10:21

I heard a story a few years ago that said the original idea about most of your heat loss being through your head was based on a study of neonatal babies, who's heads are proportionally a lot large than adult heads. If it is proportionally larger then you will loose proportionally more heat through it

Yes, was babies. Less hair as a rule for insulation too. People then rounded down figures, as far as I recall, to guess adults.

Not aware of research on heat loss from wet heads though which I'm sure changes everything... and then... wet heads and dry bodies.... wet heads and semi-dry bodies..... permutations on boats... in land....

Whatever, hats are essential to my mind if you are trying to avoid freezing.

best wishes,

Maria

ChristianG

13-01-2010, 07:20

Whatever, hats are essential to my mind if you are trying to avoid freezing.
Actually Maria, I wear a hat to avoid burning, also in winter. :D :D :D

peterb2642

18-01-2010, 11:20

hi i use a semi dry suit, i would like to offer you some advice based on my experience. I started diving in september, in order to get diving a needed a suit, the cheapest option for me was to go for a semi dry.

Despite many people telling me that you will freeze in a semi dry, i went ahead and bought one. I have done 6 dives in varying temperatures, my last being two half hour dives @ 8 celcius. As yet i have still not felt cold in my semi-drysuit.

On the otherhand i have found a few drawbacks.
For a drysuit to work well it needs to be tight which mine is, and i have found that this can significantly retrict the movement of you upper body. This can be testing when trying to put on weight harness and BCD etc.

Due to the amount of bouyancy it takes a lot of weight to help you get below the surface. I am, you could say quite a large man over 18 stone so lots of bouyancy from my large 7mm semidry. My first dive took 22kg of weight. Thankfully though i am reducing this as i improve my bouyancy now down to 18kg.

If you start to do two dives in one day you will find it a pain when getting in and out of a wet suit

I am not trying to put you off a semidry, but if you are thinking of getting a custom semidry i am sure for the price you would get a pretty good drysuit. On looking back i should have taken the plunge and got a dysuit and saved more in the long run. I know that i am definately getting one in the near future.

Hope this helps

R.Burgess

18-01-2010, 14:34

My only experiece with a semi-dry is a 7mm off the peg. A suit that doesnt fit that well and the seals dont prevent flushing because the water comes through the zip. I recently wrote to Elios (http://www.eliossub.com/) a wetsuit manufacturer that I'm told is popular with free divers. I asked them to recommend a suitable style and thickness for a wetsuit durable enough for a shore diver, who mostly dives max 25m, suitable for scuba and snorkelling and warm enough for my local annual sea temp range of 6-12c. English is not their first language but this is what they said.

FIRST: You want a tailor made suitable thickness 6/7mm, complete of jacket closed hood incorporated + long john trousers, to use for scubadiving. (this is the most warmth suit also for scuba diving because is very adherent to the body and very comforatable) the water
SECOND: your preference are for:- warmth (in this case the coating cell or thermic pile are the best)
THIRD:- Durability (in this case must have the lining outside)
OPTIONS:
1) Suit 6mm New Black coating smooth inside / Nylon elastic Black outside Neoprene Heiwa Price Euro 281,00 (see photo 0132) (include knee pads) This is the Top-model for scubadiving, very elastic, warmth, aderent to the body, durable with lining outside and good also for deep divings, but also very slippery to get into. 　
2) Suit 7mm Superelastic lining inside / Superstretch black lining outside Neoprene Heiwa soft density Price Euro 286,00 (include knee pads) it's the most elastic suit in the world, super-soft, super-comfortable, easy to wear like a t-shirt and durable
3) Suit 7mm Open cell inside / Kanoko superstetch antitears outside Black Neoprene Heiwa soft Price Euro 276,00 (include knee pads) It's an ultra-soft rubber, super-stretch, very very comfortable and very very durable with kanoko reinforced lining outside, but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.
4) Suit 7mm open cell inside / Nylon Superstretch Hydro-repellent Black outside Neoprene Heiwa soft density Price Euro 286,00 (include knee pads) it's an ultra-soft rubber, perfect for shallow divings, very very stretch neoprene, very comfortable, fast-dry outside (the lining not absorb the water) and durable but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.
5) Suit 7mm Gold coating cell inside / Nylon Grey Charchoal outside Neoprene Yamamoto 45 soft density Price Euro 336,00 (include knee pads) This is an High quality rubber, very very elastic, very very warmth, slippery to get into and super-comfortable.
6) Suit 6mm Open cell inside / Black Nylon outside Neoprene Nam Liong soft Price Euro 201,00 (include knee pads) It's the classic free&scubadiving suit, stretch, very very comfortable and durable but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap. (available also in 7mm thickness)
7) Suit 7mm Titanium coating cell inside / Black Nylon outside (see photo Titanium) Neoprene Nam Liong soft Price Euro 246,00 (include knee pads) It's a good solution for shallow divings, very very stretch, very very comfortable and durable but also more slippery to get into.
8) Suit 6mm Thermic Plush lining inside / Black Nylon outside Neoprene Nam Liong soft Price Euro 211,00 (include knee pads) It's a classic scubadiving suit, very comfortable, durable, easy to wear without lubes and warmth.
9) Suit 7mm Pile thermic inside / Kanoko Strech Black outside Neoprene Heiwa soft density Price Euro 276,00 (include knee pads) It's the best-seller for scubadiving, very comfortable, durable with kanoko antitears outside and easy to wear like a t-shirt.
These are some of the better solutions for your needs, but if you want other informations or details, don't hesitate to contact us. In case of order:
- Time of working about 40 days from the order.
- Payment available directly by Credit Card or by bank tranfer money
- Freight costs in UK by Courier amount about to Euro 30,00

　