Changes at AGM that will restrict under 18 year olds - I need your help

[Laura Willoughby]

Whilst voting and constitutions are the most boring aspect of any sporting organisation I am astounded to find that BSAC is proposing to change its constitution to stop under 18 year olds voting in elections.

There is no specific legal requirement in Company law that means under 18's cannot vote. Share holders who are under 18 in national football clubs can vote, young members of sports clubs that are registered as charities can vote and there is no legal evidence given either way that this is the case for companies ltd by guarantee (which BSAC is).Most national sport governing bodies are companies LTD my guarentee and advice from Sport England is that BSAC are the only ones who have and are proposing an age restriction. A restriction based on age rather than qualification or skill in sports is wrong.

Whilst I know the issue of the age to qualify as a diver and therefore as a voting member is an issue for further debate it is important we do not remove the only entitlement that an under 18 year old member has to play a full and equal role in the running of BSAC. It is your qualification as a diver that matters not your age. I would also point out that it is a shame that BSAC thinks its young members have so little to offer that they specifically rule them out even sitting on the council.

The lifeblood of any sporting organisation is its members, and getting young people interested and involved in the development of sports clubs at an early age means that clubs have a continual source of volunteers to renew and regenerate them and their HQ so that they last far into the future.

So I am asking if you could help me stop this short-sighted change:

1. Send me your proxy vote when you get it through this month (see address below)
2. Persuade your friends in your club to send theirs too
3. If you are under 18 make sure you have received your voting papers and go to the AGM yourself (if not pass it onto me too)

And I look forward to the following AGM where we can start the process of changing the shape of the council so that under 18 year olds can bring their enthusiasm and expertise to BSAC too. Otherwise the only people that will benefit from all of this is PADI.

Laura Willoughby
114d Blackstock Road
London
N4 2DR

<a href="mailto:lauraw@cix.co.uk">lauraw@cix.co.uk</a>
020 7354 5147
www.laurawilloughby.org.uk

[TerryH]

Do you mean under 18's or under 18's in full time education
as part of Special Branch clubs?

Special Branch members (who are by far the majority of under
18's) dont have a vote now.

TerryH

[john kendall]

Do you mean under 18's or under 18's in full time education
as part of Special Branch clubs?

Special Branch members (who are by far the majority of under
18's) dont have a vote now.

Um, Not quite true.

I am a member of a Special Branch, Yet I pay full diving membership, and so have a vote.

The majority of my branch however are Student Members, and so are paying the reduced rate, and don't have a vote.

Junior Members also pay the reduced rate, and don't get a vote.

Basically any member under 18 (Or those in full time education) who is paying a reduced membership doesn't get a vote. I don't believe there is anything to stop and under 18 diver paying for full membership though.

John

[Dave]

Whilst voting and constitutions are the most boring aspect of any sporting organisation I am astounded to find that BSAC is proposing to change its constitution to stop under 18 year olds voting in elections.

Can you provide the information from where you make this assertion? I wasn't aware of any specific plan to do so. As pointed out, most U18s will join under the cheap rate (?17 iirc) which does not confer voting rights rather than the full rate. Is there a proposal to restrict full members based on age?

Dave

[derek perry]

Dave
You should have received notification of the resolutions for the forthcoming AGM, one of which is to ensure only adults can vote.
see
<a href="http://www.bsac.org/services/noticeagm2004.htm" >http://www.bsac.org/services/noticeagm2004.htm</a>

Derek



:=Whilst voting and constitutions are the most boring aspect of any sporting organisation I am astounded to find that BSAC is proposing to change its constitution to stop under 18 year olds voting in elections.

Can you provide the information from where you make this assertion? I wasn't aware of any specific plan to do so. As pointed out, most U18s will join under the cheap rate (?17 iirc) which does not confer voting rights rather than the full rate. Is there a proposal to restrict full members based on age?

Dave

[TerryH]

Sorry, wasnt clear enough. That's why I mentioned full time
education etc.

Student special branch members.

TerryH

[Dave]

Dave
You should have received notification of the resolutions for the forthcoming AGM, one of which is to ensure only adults can vote.

If it is a requirement of company law that only those at least 18 years old can vote then I cannot see it to be an issue, though I would expect details of the relevent parts of company law specifying this to be published

Dave

[derek perry]

I am not an expert on company law so don't know the answer.
However Laura says
'There is no specific legal requirement in Company law that means under 18's cannot vote'

So who is right.
Also if it is company law why do you need vote to change it. The law is the law and we have to comply.
What happens if we don't change it? does BSAC get taken to court?
Lots of questions to be answered and I don't see BSAC answering any.
If BSAC is right then my vote is with them. If not then my vote is with Laura.
Is there a legal expert out there who can answer this question?

Derek

:=Dave
:=You should have received notification of the resolutions for the forthcoming AGM, one of which is to ensure only adults can vote.

If it is a requirement of company law that only those at least 18 years old can vote then I cannot see it to be an issue, though I would expect details of the relevent parts of company law specifying this to be published

Dave

[Dave]

I am not an expert on company law so don't know the answer.
However Laura says
'There is no specific legal requirement in Company law that means under 18's cannot vote'

So who is right.
Also if it is company law why do you need vote to change it. The law is the law and we have to comply.
What happens if we don't change it? does BSAC get taken to court?
Lots of questions to be answered and I don't see BSAC answering any.
If BSAC is right then my vote is with them. If not then my vote is with Laura.
Is there a legal expert out there who can answer this question?


A person of any age is entitled to become a company director. I find it unlikely that a company director can be unable to vote

Also, Article 12 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was ratified by Uk in 1991 gives children and young people the right to express and have their views taken into account, in all matters affecting them.

Given the above I find it unliekly that a minimnum voting age is enshrined into company law and I would like to see the statute wording that states it. if this cannot be produced , then I would like to see the item removed from the AGM since it has be raised misleadingly.

Also, I can point to another company "Scottish Wildlife Trust" ( company limited by guarantee ) has a minimum voting age of 16 which suggests that 18 is not a statute issue

Dave

[jp]

Hi Laura

BSAC Counccil have discussed your request (13/3/04). The guidance that we have received to date is being checked in the next few weeks. We have no problem with under 18s having the right and using that right to vote, in fact just the opposite, if we are not breaking the laws of the land we want the youth of today to take part in forming the future of the BSAC. so please rest assured that by the AGM we will have a legal ruling and we will abide by that.

If you need any further information please contact me or any other Council member for clarification My personal mobile number is 07775616037.

Best
John Pederson BSAC Council

Whilst voting and constitutions are the most boring aspect of any sporting organisation I am astounded to find that BSAC is proposing to change its constitution to stop under 18 year olds voting in elections.

There is no specific legal requirement in Company law that means under 18's cannot vote. Share holders who are under 18 in national football clubs can vote, young members of sports clubs that are registered as charities can vote and there is no legal evidence given either way that this is the case for companies ltd by guarantee (which BSAC is).Most national sport governing bodies are companies LTD my guarentee and advice from Sport England is that BSAC are the only ones who have and are proposing an age restriction. A restriction based on age rather than qualification or skill in sports is wrong.

Whilst I know the issue of the age to qualify as a diver and therefore as a voting member is an issue for further debate it is important we do not remove the only entitlement that an under 18 year old member has to play a full and equal role in the running of BSAC. It is your qualification as a diver that matters not your age. I would also point out that it is a shame that BSAC thinks its young members have so little to offer that they specifically rule them out even sitting on the council.

The lifeblood of any sporting organisation is its members, and getting young people interested and involved in the development of sports clubs at an early age means that clubs have a continual source of volunteers to renew and regenerate them and their HQ so that they last far into the future.

So I am asking if you could help me stop this short-sighted change:

1. Send me your proxy vote when you get it through this month (see address below)
2. Persuade your friends in your club to send theirs too
3. If you are under 18 make sure you have received your voting papers and go to the AGM yourself (if not pass it onto me too)

And I look forward to the following AGM where we can start the process of changing the shape of the council so that under 18 year olds can bring their enthusiasm and expertise to BSAC too. Otherwise the only people that will benefit from all of this is PADI.

Laura Willoughby
114d Blackstock Road
London
N4 2DR

:<a href="mailto:=lauraw@cix.co.uk">=lauraw@cix.co.uk</a>
020 7354 5147
www.laurawilloughby.org.uk

[BSACHQ]

Special Resolution 2 ? To ensure that voting members at AGMs are adults.

It would appear that the original ?expert? advice, given to Council about the need for only adults to vote at AGMs was less than perfect.

Council are pleased that a BSAC member is sufficiently interested in BSAC business to point out the anomaly.

After reviewing the evidence provided, BSAC Council has decided to withdraw Special Resolution 2 from the AGM and the status quo on voting at AGMs remains.

Because the Ballot Forms have already been printed and are already being sent out to members, Resolution 2 will remain on the Ballot Form but any votes cast will not be counted and no result for this Resolution will be announced at the AGM.

If you have any enquiries with regard to this matter please do not hesitate to contact Mary Tetley BSAC Operations Manager on 0151 350 6220 or by e-mail at <a href="mailto:maryt@bsac.com">maryt@bsac.com</a>.

BSAC Council

[derek perry]

BSAC

Thank you for a fast and satisfactory resolution to this matter

Derek

Special Resolution 2 ? To ensure that voting members at AGMs are adults.

It would appear that the original ?expert? advice, given to Council about the need for only adults to vote at AGMs was less than perfect.

Council are pleased that a BSAC member is sufficiently interested in BSAC business to point out the anomaly.

After reviewing the evidence provided, BSAC Council has decided to withdraw Special Resolution 2 from the AGM and the status quo on voting at AGMs remains.

Because the Ballot Forms have already been printed and are already being sent out to members, Resolution 2 will remain on the Ballot Form but any votes cast will not be counted and no result for this Resolution will be announced at the AGM.

If you have any enquiries with regard to this matter please do not hesitate to contact Mary Tetley BSAC Operations Manager on 0151 350 6220 or by e-mail at <a href="mailto:maryt@bsac.com">maryt@bsac.com</a>.

BSAC Council