Boat Handling / Diver Cox

[Liam Mason]

After noticing the "debate" over BSAC vs RYA qualifications in an earlier post (which resembled most BSAC vs PADI "debates" I hreard over the years), I thought I ask a question in a similar vein.

With the new SOLAS regulations coming out and the need for a Cox to be onboard at all times, our club has a slight problem. Firstly, although at least myself and another member have over 100+ hours experience in RIB driving (we both have our own RIBs) and also have experience in maintaining RIBs and trailers. Only 4 members of the club have any recognised boat handling - myself and our equipment officer both undertook the BSAC Boat Handling SDC course at the weekend. The other 2 drivers (Boat Officer and Training Officer) are both RYA level II.

My own reading into this is that we DONT have anyone suitable to act as Cox on the dive boat. At the minute our boat is being overhauled for the season so it's a bit of a moot point, but I thought I'd check it out.

Liam

[David Walker]

With the new SOLAS regulations coming out and the need for a Cox to be onboard at all times, our club has a slight problem.

Umm... whats a solas regulation? Surely someone would have mentioned it if there was a big change in rules that someone with a boat had to be qualified?
Any link to the regulations? No one tells me anything! :O(


Only 4 members of the club have any recognised boat handling - myself and our equipment officer both undertook the BSAC Boat Handling SDC course at the weekend. The other 2 drivers (Boat Officer and Training Officer) are both RYA level II.

You should be able to do the Diver Cox'n thing after 5 hours logged experience if you're already experienced to get the "assessed qualification" thing, since BH is 'not a certificate of competence' according to the SDC outline.

David

[Mike Halligan]

Liam,

Looking for the moment at the requirements (URL below), surely there are as many as four competent persons in the club. I'm referring to those with RYA level II (which is assessed) and those with experience in their own RIBs, who should be capable of passing the level II assessment.

It seems that not all of you have written evidence, but as you say, there is time to rectify this before you start to use the club RIB.

It would be very nice to have Diver Coxswain assessments signed up all round, and the Region may well be able to deal with that for you, but is that a pre-requisite of taking the club RIB out?

Purely my personal opinion.

Mike

[Liam Mason]

Just found out our Training Officer has Diver Cox afterall (he's just not put the sticker in his QRB yet) so that's pretty much the problem solved!

Even if we didn't have a Cox I'm pretty sure we still would have used the club RIB, but I just like dotting i's and crossing t's!

Liam

[David Walker]

Looking for the moment at the requirements (URL below), surely there are as many as four competent persons in the club.

From those requirements, if that is all they are, I don't see where the idea that you must have someone qualified on the boat anyway. Seems like they are just a few things you need to do, and from what I saw never mentioned quals of the cox. If that requirement is somewhere else, can you give me a link?

David

[Liam Mason]

On the BH course, we were given voyage planning sheets, which I was told were developed between the MCA and BSAC, these need to be signed by a Cox. We were also told that a designated Cox should be onboard also - however, this is not stated in the SOLAS leaflet, as you pointed out. We were shown a letter from BSAC sent to SDC instructors, which refered to Coxs, but I cant find a copy on this site.

So it's word of mouth, I'm afraid. I guess all will become clearer as BSAC change their BH course in the near future.

Liam

[David Walker]

On the BH course, we were given voyage planning sheets, which I was told were developed between the MCA and BSAC, these need to be signed by a Cox. We were also told that a designated Cox should be onboard also - however, this is not stated in the SOLAS leaflet, as you pointed out. We were shown a letter from BSAC sent to SDC instructors, which refered to Coxs, but I cant find a copy on this site.

So it's word of mouth, I'm afraid. I guess all will become clearer as BSAC change their BH course in the near future.

Hmmm - surely if it was a legal requirement there would have been some sort of formal notification to clubs? Well, i'd hope there would be at least... :O\ And we certainly haven't received anything.
Also, having just done the BH SDC last weekend (well, the first half of it) we haven't used any 'voyage planning sheets', although they may be used on the practical day, I coulnd't say - certainly weren't mentioned during the main theory bit though.
If they are to be signed by the Cox though, doesn't that just mean the person who is acting as the Cox, which would make sense because all its doing is making a single person responsible for the boat, as a Cox should be - whether they are qualified or not?
I'll wait and see what we're told when I do the second half of my BH course.

David

[Mike Halligan]

"We were shown a letter from BSAC sent to SDC instructors, which refered to Coxs, but I cant find a copy on this site."

Liam,

There is leaflet T11, URL below, which replicated the MCA leaflet. There was also an undated document, doing the rounds of Regional Coaches in May 2002, i.e. just prior to SOLAS V launch. I shouldn't get hung up on that, though, the one I've seen is only a summary of the then current position and statement of intent from the BSAC.

The matter was then publicised in BSAC Talk, October 2002, sent to your Membership Secretary. I guess this was after the dust had settled.

I would hope your Boat Handling course Instructors can guide you over compliance with SOLAS V, just as they do over Trailers, Insurance, fuelling and all other risks.

HTH

Mike

[David Walker]

There is leaflet T11, URL below, which replicated the MCA leaflet. There was also an undated document, doing the rounds of Regional Coaches in May 2002, i.e. just prior to SOLAS V launch. I shouldn't get hung up on that, though, the one I've seen is only a summary of the then current position and statement of intent from the BSAC.

So this one doesn't mention anything about a qualified cox'n either, so am I safe to assume that the person who started the thread has just misunderstood?

David

[Mike Halligan]

So this one doesn't mention anything about a qualified cox'n either, so am I safe to assume that the person who started the thread has just misunderstood?

David,

No, it's never safe to assume anything. However, IMHO, the MCA decided not to define the term "Coxswain" and the BSAC didn't take the opportunity of restricting it (for example to Diver Coxswain - an assessed award of the BSAC). Hence, I feel able to apply normal construction of Coxswain, the steersman of a boat.

I guess we're reaching the same conclusion, which itself becomes invalid once we see the content of the new course. Good, eh?

Mike

[David Walker]

No, it's never safe to assume anything. However, IMHO, the MCA decided not to define the term "Coxswain" and the BSAC didn't take the opportunity of restricting it (for example to Diver Coxswain - an assessed award of the BSAC). Hence, I feel able to apply normal construction of Coxswain, the steersman of a boat.

Well, the dictionary definition (one of them) is "A person who usually steers a ship's boat and has charge of its crew." - and if there is nowhere else which suggests they have to be qualified, and has no more specific terminology anywhere else, then they could not do anything to you for being an unqualified Cox - if you had an accident at sea and they took you to court for being unqualified, they'd apply the dictionary definition of the term so as long as you were following the rest of the guidelines you'd be fine.

In reality, if they'd have meant for you to be qualified, that would have been made explicitly clear in my opinion.

I've convinced myself that its not a problem, if they want to reword the rules then I might change my mind but until then i'd be perfectly happy me driving the boat alone.

David

[Liam Mason]

We were shown the technical document that was linked to but there was that letter from BSAC.

The course instructors kept putting across the idea of "no grey areas" in law - i.e. you are either a suitably appointed Cox or you are not. I felt that with my previous experience that I would be, but I wanted to check the general consensus.

Liam

[David Walker]

The course instructors kept putting across the idea of "no grey areas" in law

Hehe - having studied a bit of law at uni last year, I think that would be a, ermmmm, controversial view! :O)

But I take the point that it seems instructors were told something different to the technical doc - i'll wait and see what i'm told next week.

David