Camera Help AGAIN Please

[Maria CM]

Hi there,

OK - I've virtually decided to buy the Panasonic LX3 after some splendid advice from yourselves:)

I sadly have decided that I can't afford the UK-Germany housing (well, actually I can't afford any of it, but that is by the by...) - sorry Christian:( , and thanks for all your help on that.

So if I get the Panasonic LX3 my only real option appears to be the 10Bar housing with subtronic S6 bulkhead. So.... my question is.... I know nothing about 10Bar housings... are they deemed any good? What do people think? I don't want to make a bad decision because I'm going to be hauled over the coals for months by DH anyway when he finds out:eek:

best wishes,

Maria

[ChristianG]

So if I get the Panasonic LX3 my only real option appears to be the 10Bar housing with subtronic S6 bulkhead.
Now Bristol Cameras, perhaps your local distributors of 10Bar housings, quote £649 inc VAT for the housing whereas Uwe quoted EU1,004 which is some £882 so, yes, it is substantially dearer especially when you then add P&P and UK taxes to the figure. That's a £233 difference which is significant. If there were just a few quid in it I wouldn't worry but that's more than a few quid.

I don't know the 10Bar people but, from what you say they can supply it with the subtronic bulkhead, which is good. I've asked them the question nevertheless if only for my own purposes because I plan to get the camera (it's on order actually), and then a housing might become irresistible and I'd want to be able to use my subtronic strobes with it, preferably without nasty adaptor thingies. No, I'm not tossing my dSLR in the bin but just occasionally I don't want to drag all that gear around with me. As well camera phones don't do anything for me if only because I loathe, abhor and detest mobiles - which is not to say that I wouldn't buy an iPhone just as soon as naked DSL comes to my part of the world. The camera bit on the iPhone is not the best creation around, then again, nor are the others.

[northern_diver]

http://www.underwaterworld.co.uk/acatalog/Fuji_F200.html

http://www.underwaterworld.co.uk/acatalog/Fuji_F100.html

Et al are seemingly about a 3rd of the cost, but takes perfectly good pictures(looking at a compare of the technical specs)....or are we in training for some tv film jobbie? at that price it doesnt matter so much of it floods/breaks/gets lost etc and the other half cant winge as much;)

Horses for courses though but as i figure it, its somewhere near a grand, serious money IMHO. Imagine. 'hey hun, i bought a new underwater camera, cost 400, was gonna be 1000, i used the spare cash to book us a little weekend away and the kids are really gonna enjoy alton towers'...well maybe something like that:)

I dont want to seem unsupportive though:o

John

[Maria CM]

Now Bristol Cameras, perhaps your local distributors of 10Bar housings, quote £649 inc VAT for the housing whereas Uwe quoted EU1,004 which is some £882 so, yes, it is substantially dearer especially when you then add P&P and UK taxes to the figure. That's a £233 difference which is significant. If there were just a few quid in it I wouldn't worry but that's more than a few quid.

I don't know the 10Bar people but, from what you say they can supply it with the subtronic bulkhead, which is good. I've asked them the question nevertheless if only for my own purposes because I plan to get the camera (it's on order actually), and then a housing might become irresistible and I'd want to be able to use my subtronic strobes with it, preferably without nasty adaptor thingies. No, I'm not tossing my dSLR in the bin but just occasionally I don't want to drag all that gear around with me. As well camera phones don't do anything for me if only because I loathe, abhor and detest mobiles - which is not to say that I wouldn't buy an iPhone just as soon as naked DSL comes to my part of the world. The camera bit on the iPhone is not the best creation around, then again, nor are the others.

Or get from Aditech in Spain for 649 Euros including delivery...

best wishes,

Maria

[ChristianG]

http://www.underwaterworld.co.uk/acatalog/Fuji_F200.html

http://www.underwaterworld.co.uk/acatalog/Fuji_F100.html
Wouldn't buy an F200 if you paid me to do so. As for the F100 - don't get me started.

I'll wax eloquent if you ask but otherwise I couldn't be bothered.

Edit/: I'll give you some hints: think megapixels, lenses, noise, the list actually goes on.

[ChristianG]

Incidentally Maria,

Your Fuji F30 has developed (edit/: rightly) something of a cult following, especially amongst u/w photographers not prepared to shell out huge sums of money. That's to the extent that it is now rather sought after, together with its first cousin the F31. You should be able to find a ready market for it, try the YD Forum and then the usual suspects.

[kdtan]

hi maria

i went to take a close look at the ten bar the other day with another friend. played around with most of the functions and buttons.

my impressions were that its pretty well constructed. not as finely finished as some of the more upmarket or expensive housings, but certainly solid enough.

there is full push button operability for all the functions as well as the joystick, although the latter is a touch stiff in operation and they recomended you put a little bit of blue tac in the joystick indent to get a better grip on the camera joystick.

the only reason i didnt buy is cos i was deciding whether to go the whole hog and get a housing for my dslr. havent finalised my decision yet.

[Maria CM]

Incidentally Maria,

Your Fuji F30 has developed (edit/: rightly) something of a cult following, especially amongst u/w photographers not prepared to shell out huge sums of money. That's to the extent that it is now rather sought after, together with its first cousin the F31. You should be able to find a ready market for it, try the YD Forum and then the usual suspects.

:) :) It won't be sold. I like it a lot. It will be kept as back up whatever:) :)

best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

hi maria

...... and they recomended you put a little bit of blue tac in the joystick indent to get a better grip on the camera joystick.


Oh my word... this is starting to sound like the balsa aeroplane thread;) :D

OK - I'm going to brace myself and order it:eek:

Thanks and best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

Horses for courses though but as i figure it, its somewhere near a grand, serious money IMHO. Imagine. 'hey hun, i bought a new underwater camera, cost 400, was gonna be 1000, i used the spare cash to book us a little weekend away and the kids are really gonna enjoy alton towers'...well maybe something like that:)


My word.... that sounds like 'proper girl reasoning' .... see, I saved £600! wasn't that clever of me (not mentioning the £400 spent:cool: ). I'm impressed John:D

But.... naughty, naughty! You haven't been following all the Fuji discussions obviously!!!!

best wishes,

Maria

[northern_diver]

My word.... that sounds like 'proper girl reasoning' .... see, I saved £600! wasn't that clever of me (not mentioning the £400 spent ). I'm impressed John

just call me armstrong...joanne armstrong;) :D :p

sadly i havent followed it, i was somewhat enguaged:rolleyes: be cool to have a camera though

john

[ChristianG]

OK, I've had a reply from Bristol Cameras the gist of which is:

... this housing has both Nikonos 5 pin and Subtronic bulkhead connectors ...
They also mention a PDF manual download which, for the life of me, I cannot find (but I was always particularly bad at that) so I've asked them the question. I'll let you know, Maria, what their response is - unless you've already been a lot cleverer than I am which is a distinct possibility.

[ChristianG]

just call me armstrong...joanne armstrong;)be cool to have a camera though
All you have to do is go up to the moon and pick up one or two of the many Hasselblads left there for weight considerations. All they brought back was the film.

Those 'blads, specially developed, would be worth a lot of money to collectors. :)

[northern_diver]

Indeed, very collectable and very much a handy way to pay of my student loans...buy a nice car...get most of a house and maybe some other goodies;)

I have that sea and sea thing i was telling you about...though i still dont know how to open the housing:rolleyes: i should try to be fair as im sure it be handy for my diss.

I'll likely get one of those i put a link too, as its more that suitable for the odd snaps i'll take and for recording bits...

John

[ChristianG]

I have that sea and sea thing i was telling you about...though i still dont know how to open the housing:rolleyes: i should try to be fair as im sure it be handy for my diss.

I'll likely get one of those i put a link too, as its more that suitable for the odd snaps i'll take and for recording bits...
Huh?

John,

I try really hard to understand, translate would possibly be a better word, what you write but I can't make head or tail of the above.

Let me give you some examples:

You state that you have a Sea & Sea - that I'm supposed to know about. Maybe I should, but I can't remember. You say that you can't open the housing. Now that's quite possibly a disparaging go at your own abilities, I'll leave it alone.

The next sentence seems to refer to ... oh, never mind.

Frustrated,

Christian

[PeteM]

OK, I've had a reply from Bristol Cameras the gist of which is:


They also mention a PDF manual download which, for the life of me, I cannot find (but I was always particularly bad at that) so I've asked them the question. I'll let you know, Maria, what their response is - unless you've already been a lot cleverer than I am which is a distinct possibility.

They are probably referring to the one on this page
http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/p-10bar-underwater-housing-for-panasonic-lumix-lx3.htm

The title is implies it is technical information but it is actually the manual, direct link to the manual is this
http://www.bristolcameras.co.uk/images/instructionmanual-lx3.pdf

[Maria CM]

Huh?

John,

I try really hard to understand, translate would possibly be a better word, what you write but I can't make head or tail of the above.

Let me give you some examples:

You state that you have a Sea & Sea - that I'm supposed to know about. Maybe I should, but I can't remember. You say that you can't open the housing. Now that's quite possibly a disparaging go at your own abilities, I'll leave it alone.

The next sentence seems to refer to ... oh, never mind.

Frustrated,

Christian

Last sentence refers to the hyperlinks John posted earlier on in the thread... can't answer for the Sea & Sea remark.

best wishes,

Maria

[northern_diver]

maria is right....and i e-mailed you a couple months ago about underwater camera's (i happen to have a yellow sea and sea), it was a off the cuff remark, dont worry about it.

though your comments about the moon make 100% sense of course:rolleyes: ;)

john

[Maria CM]

All ordered!:eek: :eek: :eek:

[ChristianG]

All ordered!:eek: :eek: :eek:
Errmmmm, precisely what was ordered, and whom from? :)

Interested parties need to know.

Jeez, I just hope it works out, otherwise you're going to be after me yet again with sump'n nasty and painful clutched in your outraged fist. And here's me, all creaking and ancient and doddery, incapable of running too fast or too far. :eek: ;)

[Maria CM]

Errmmmm, precisely what was ordered, and whom from? :)

Interested parties need to know.

Jeez, I just hope it works out, otherwise you're going to be after me yet again with sump'n nasty and painful clutched in your outraged fist. And here's me, all creaking and ancient and doddery, incapable of running too fast or too far. :eek: ;)

E-mails forwarded!

I'm glad you fully understand the perilous nature of your position ;) :eek: :D

best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

Hoorah!

Sexy black LX3 has arrived in the post today following an abortive order to Elite Gadgets:mad: and a successful order from the cheaper Simply Electronics:D

I have taken it out of the box. I have looked at it. It has instilled fear:eek: . It is back in the box. I may be brave enough to attempt to decipher some of the controls after a stiff drink!

Just got to wait for the housing now:eek:

best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

Err.... just looked a bit more carefully at the housing....

There are lots of options listed:eek: :eek: :eek: what do I do???????

# Sparemain O-rings (included)
# Dome port and extension adaptor (optional)
# Silicone O-ring grease (included)
# Carrying bag (included)
# Red filter (optional)
# Extension arm for strobe or video light (optional)
# Macro and Wide Angle lens (optional)
# Housing for FL50 Flash (optional)

PLEASE HELP!!!!!!

AAAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Ever considered someone might be out of their depth?:o

best wishes,

Maria

[ChristianG]

I have taken it out of the box. I have looked at it. It has instilled fear:eek: . It is back in the box. I may be brave enough to attempt to decipher some of the controls after a stiff drink!
By all means have that stiff drink, then get the camera out again and RTFM as you operate the controls, then again, and again, ad nauseam until you get at least reasonably familiar with it all.

Don't even think of sticking it into the housing until you have some reasonable idea of how the wretched thing works. As for the housing, here's my take on how to look after it (http://www.digigreen.net/forums/other-stuff/7056-o-rings-general-gear-care.html#post35938) but I'll send you the revised, modernised, version privately. It's already supposed to be up on that website but the webmaster is experiencing the same update difficulties that I did.

[Maria CM]

RTFM

Language Timothy!:eek:

best wishes,

Maria

p.s. I looked at the manual to work out how to charge the battery. Some pictures have been taken, I have worked out how to set it to RAW. Much to my irritation it seems that most of the instructions for operation are on a PDF file:( - I'd much rather they were ALL in a nice little book. AND to my complete disgust, the string to connect the lens cap is missing:mad: I paid for that - it should be there!!!!!!

Can't put it in the housing until it arrives anyway:p

[ChristianG]

Language Timothy!:eek:
"RTFM" is an entirely legitimate technical acronym. :rolleyes: ;) :D

Much to my irritation it seems that most of the instructions for operation are on a PDF file:( - I'd much rather they were ALL in a nice little book. AND to my complete disgust, the string to connect the lens cap is missing:mad: I paid for that - it should be there!!!!!!

Can't put it in the housing until it arrives anyway:p
1) A PDF file is printable - if you so desire. This is a P&S, albeit a good one, therefore don't expect what you may not get from a lesser dSLR.
2) The string thingie, which you can't use u/w anyway unless I miss my guess, is something that you can get from the supplier provided you complain hard enough. Mind, it's not their fault anyway, it's purely the manufacturer's fault. You're quite sure that it's not secreted away in the box somewhere?
3) I do know, you did mention it, that you don't yet have the housing.

Errrmmm, has anyone yet mentioned that drowning a camera is not a matter if if, but when? :eek:

[Maria CM]

Strobes?!?!?!

Are they expensive? Do they make a big difference.

Been to a 'learn to love your camera' class for beginners tonight:) :) :)

best wishes,

Maria

[Mark]

Strobes?!?!?!

Are they expensive? Do they make a big difference.



They can be... About £200 - £500 for something worth while.

I think so...

I recommend this book, but I'm sure someone must have mentioned it to you before...

Soon to be released in it's fourth edition I see.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Underwater-Photographer-MARTIN-EDGE/dp/0240521641/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253607728&sr=8-1


:)

[PeteM]

Strobes?!?!?!

Are they expensive?

Usually, the list price of mine was well over a £1,000 when I bought it although I got a deal on it so only paid £400. The cheap ones are not worth having because they do not put out enough light.

You also need to budget for something to hold it which can be expensive as well. For my big strobe I tend to use a simple tray to hold it when not in use and hand held when in use, similar to this (sorry best picture I can find)
http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/8f/8a/e9/21882122-177x150-0-0.jpg

and one of these for my compact camera and strobe
http://www.seaandsea.jp/products/discon/compact_002.html


Do they make a big difference.

They can do, but if used badly they can make things worse. You get all the problems associated with using a flash badly on the surface, such as bleaching, insufficient range, uneven lighting, but also new problems like back scatter. Personally I tend to always use one.

[ChristianG]

I recommend this book, but I'm sure someone must have mentioned it to you before...
Maria,

Mark makes a good point but there is nothing like hands-on teaching. In your neck of the woods I can recommend (no particular order) Maria Munn (http://www.oceanvisions.co.uk/) (who specialises in P&Ss), Gareth Lock (http://www.imagesoflife.co.uk/) (who has the same camera, amongst others, that you do), Mike Ward (www.divewithmike.co.uk) (who's been a professional for quite some time) and Martin Edge (http://www.edgeunderwaterphotography.com/) whom you should perhaps store away until you are more comfortable, he tends to do fairly advanced stuff.

[Maria CM]

They can be... About £200 - £500 for something worth while.

I think so...

I recommend this book, but I'm sure someone must have mentioned it to you before...

Soon to be released in it's fourth edition I see.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Underwater-Photographer-MARTIN-EDGE/dp/0240521641/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253607728&sr=8-1


:)

Thank you - I have just ordered a copy of the book.:)

best wishes,

maria

[Maria CM]

Maria,

Mark makes a good point but there is nothing like hands-on teaching. In your neck of the woods I can recommend (no particular order) Maria Munn (http://www.oceanvisions.co.uk/) (who specialises in P&Ss), Gareth Lock (http://www.imagesoflife.co.uk/) (who has the same camera, amongst others, that you do), Mike Ward (www.divewithmike.co.uk) (who's been a professional for quite some time) and Martin Edge (http://www.edgeunderwaterphotography.com/) whom you should perhaps store away until you are more comfortable, he tends to do fairly advanced stuff.

Hi Christian,

Thank you for those additional ones - I have been in touch with Maria Munn to start (the name swung it:) ) and will be arranging a date just as soon as the housing arrives. Might have a go with one of the others later. Their names have all been duly noted:) :)

The other course is because I know nothing about photography full stop and thought I'd get more out of the Maria Munn course if I had a vague idea what all the controls do!


thanks (as ever) and best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

Usually, the list price of mine was well over a £1,000 when I bought it although I got a deal on it so only paid £400. The cheap ones are not worth having because they do not put out enough light.

this is here I worry as I don't want to pay a fortune but if you buy the wrong thing it is wasted money anyway:(

You also need to budget for something to hold it which can be expensive as well. For my big strobe I tend to use a simple tray to hold it when not in use and hand held when in use, similar to this (sorry best picture I can find)
http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/8f/8a/e9/21882122-177x150-0-0.jpg

and one of these for my compact camera and strobe
http://www.seaandsea.jp/products/discon/compact_002.html

why do none of these things ever have prices on?


They can do, but if used badly they can make things worse. You get all the problems associated with using a flash badly on the surface, such as bleaching, insufficient range, uneven lighting, but also new problems like back scatter. Personally I tend to always use one.

I am thinking in the Red Sea with clearer water it could be easier for the novice to manage to start???

Maria Munn said I could have a go with hers on my camera when I do her course - I'm just worried that it will be so close to my holiday date by then that if I decide I do 'need' one I might not have enough time to sort one out:confused: :(

Thanks and best wishes,

Maria

[PeteM]

Thank you - I have just ordered a copy of the book.:)

best wishes,

maria

The author is the same Martin Edge as Christian mentioned in his post about courses, I would recommend doing his course as well once you are a little more confident (you can also take your book and get him to sign it)

[PeteM]

I am thinking in the Red Sea with clearer water it could be easier for the novice to manage to start???

It could be, but only in the shallows. If you get the strobe before hand you can take it and not switch it on all the time, then you can see how you get on. Make sure you take the Martin Edge book with you as well, you can refer to it between dives to see how to improve what did not work well on the previous one

[ChristianG]

Thank you for those additional ones - I have been in touch with Maria Munn to start (the name swung it:) )
You girls are all the same. :eek:

She could be a right shocker (she isn't).

and will be arranging a date just as soon as the housing arrives. Might have a go with one of the others later. Their names have all been duly noted:) :)
I think your choice of that other Maria is a good one, at your level of expertise at the moment. As I keep on saying, learn to wade before you go off swimming.

Now don't forget that because you're likely to be using the housing/camera combination in the pool you'll also need to establish what differences the housing makes above, but close to, the water - and it will.

[GLOC]

Maria,

Mark makes a good point but there is nothing like hands-on teaching. In your neck of the woods I can recommend (no particular order) Maria Munn (http://www.oceanvisions.co.uk/) (who specialises in P&Ss), Gareth Lock (http://www.imagesoflife.co.uk/) (who has the same camera, amongst others, that you do), Mike Ward (www.divewithmike.co.uk) (who's been a professional for quite some time) and Martin Edge (http://www.edgeunderwaterphotography.com/) whom you should perhaps store away until you are more comfortable, he tends to do fairly advanced stuff.

A very nice camera it is too :)

Have fun learning how to use it on the surface, makes a big difference to learning what does what underwater when you have left half of your brain on the surface :D

Regards