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Richie771

07-11-2003, 21:13

Dave

07-11-2003, 22:14

I have just returned from a Rescue First Aid Course - Hosted by the Southern Region at Crawley BSAC.

What an excellent course - Many new ideas to take back to the Branch.

I Thoroughly recommend this SDC to all.

Covers the use of:-

Airway Management
Neck Stabalisation
Enhanced AV (Bag/Mask Resusitator)

I did look at doing the RFA course but after reading the syllabus I was put off since it looked like a lot of repeat of previously covered material with a few new bits . Is this the case or is it a course with totally fresh material? If the latter I might try n do it when I return next to the UK

Dave

Lynn Jackson

08-11-2003, 14:45

I think it's presented as an advanced first aid course and as a refresher for those who have already 'done' the standard first aid course (hence repeat material).

I'll be attending in the New Year as a refresher (I try to do this every 3 years).

Dave

08-11-2003, 15:37

I think it's presented as an advanced first aid course and as a refresher for those who have already 'done' the standard first aid course (hence repeat material).

That's what I was afraid of. I would have hoped for "all new" material in the course rather than a lot of reruns of other material (e.g. the O2 course imo, 70% repeat 30% new stuff ).

Dave

matt

09-11-2003, 08:37

:=I think it's presented as an advanced first aid course and as a refresher for those who have already 'done' the standard first aid course (hence repeat material).

That's what I was afraid of. I would have hoped for "all new" material in the course rather than a lot of reruns of other material (e.g. the O2 course imo, 70% repeat 30% new stuff ).

I did the RFA earlier this year and found it a good balance between refresher and new stuff. I would say it is nearer 50/50 than 70/30. I particularly liked the emphasis on pracical sessions and enjoyed the day immensly.

Dave

09-11-2003, 08:54

I did the RFA earlier this year and found it a good balance between refresher and new stuff. I would say it is nearer 50/50 than 70/30. I particularly liked the emphasis on pracical sessions and enjoyed the day immensly.

I think that these courses should be 90% new material. The RFA course has pre-requisites; the pre-requisite courses shouldn't be being done again. 50% new material is not really very good. That 50% repeat time could be used to cover other new material.

Dave

Ron Evans

09-11-2003, 11:27

I think that these courses should be 90% new material. The RFA course has pre-requisites; the pre-requisite courses shouldn't be being done again. 50% new material is not really very good. That 50% repeat time could be used to cover other new material.

Dave

Whilst I agree with you about the value of any course, there are three points to make.

First, CPR and AV skills decay rapidly, and need constant repetition to be of use. That applies to us doctors, who need to re-certify in Advanced Life Support every three years, even if the skills are being practiced by being the instructor on the courses. There is evidence that within six months of doing the CPR/AV course that the practical skills are poorly performed. Just to alarm you, on a resuscitation course I attended, I was the best pre-course student, acheiving a measly 65% succesful cycles of CPR/AV in the 2 minute test period (the aim of course is 100%). We all got 100% success rates at the end of the course.

Second, BSAC teaching is progressive, so there is usually an element of "we have done this before" at the beginning, and scattered thereafter. Part of this is to make sure that everyone is reaching the same level of acheivement, without having to ask those "stupid" questions (no questions are stupid, before you pick on me) to catch up with the group's knowledge.

Third, what else do you think should be taught on this course? The course is to teach you how to save life with CPR/AV, using safe and simple techniques and equipment, as well as learning to improvise from the materails around. The course achieves that aim.

If you want a more advanced course on first aid, then there are a number of skills you could be taught, including use of defibrillators, use of laryngeal mask, endotracheal intubation, intravenous fluid administration, chest drain insertion, and pericardial decompression. A case might be made for the use of each one of these skills in various diving incidents. However, the skills learnt for many of these techniques will decay rapidly, so that they become dangereous when practiced in the field in the middle of an adrenaline rush.

Safe diving

Ron

Dave

09-11-2003, 12:07

Whilst I agree with you about the value of any course, there are three points to make.

First, CPR and AV skills decay rapidly, and need constant repetition to be of use. That applies to us doctors, who need to re-certify in Advanced Life Support every three years, even if the skills are being practiced by being the instructor on the courses. There is evidence that within six months of doing the CPR/AV course that the practical skills are poorly performed. Just to alarm you, on a resuscitation course I attended, I was the best pre-course student, acheiving a measly 65% succesful cycles of CPR/AV in the 2 minute test period (the aim of course is 100%). We all got 100% success rates at the end of the course.

This aspect would be served by running specific refresher courses. Going on a new course I do expect to cover new material, not to rehash what was in FAD or O2 etc.

Second, BSAC teaching is progressive, so there is usually an element of "we have done this before" at the beginning, and scattered thereafter. Part of this is to make sure that everyone is reaching the same level of acheivement, without having to ask those "stupid" questions (no questions are stupid, before you pick on me) to catch up with the group's knowledge.

If I run an Advanced Nitrox course , I spend a *short* while at the beginning to ensure that students are up on calculating EADs etc. In fact I let them know in advance to make sure that they are prepared since it is expected for the course that they know them since I wont be rerunning the basic one.

Third, what else do you think should be taught on this course? The course is to teach you how to save life with CPR/AV, using safe and simple techniques and equipment, as well as learning to improvise from the materails around. The course achieves that aim.

Exactly what to cover I don't know, but from looking at the course notes it seems that there is not a great deal of new material introduced in RFA which is a disincentive to take it.

Dave

John Williams

10-11-2003, 08:29

Most of the "refresher" work is simply to "Check base level".

In other words you are asked to demonstrate that you are indeed at the pre-requisite level before new skills are added.

This is standard BSAC teaching (indeed it should be standard teaching anywhere).

Most of the "checking for base" is done quickly and practically - and has already been explained there is not case for too much practice. EVERY time a mannekin and constructive critique of First Aid skills is available you should take it.

Many of the sessions present the skills in a different way. Most are practical. There is more opportunity to try some of the skills that were taught mainly in theory for the "entry level" courses that concentrated upon ABC's and CPR. For example there is opportunity to dress simulated wounds making proper use of pressure points etc.

The revision of CPR techniques very quickly moves from checking base skill to positive pressure, the use of airways etc.

The syllabus may look like "more of the same" but you'll find that it is much more "the next progressive stage is..."

You'll also find that IF the course does not move on quickly enough for your liking this is because the instructors have identified significant flaws in the base level they check and need to correct this before moving on......not everyone comes to a course having reviewed the skills of the pre-requisite (indeed without access to a mannkein many cannot do so)

In order to discover how good the course is for yourself there really is only one option open to you.

See you on the course next time you return to the UK.

John