Info please

[DIVER A]

I am not trying to be a pain?but. I am currently a PADI DM. I am in the British Armed Forces and the pressure is on for me to become BSAC. I have no problem with this at all; however I would like to know from BSAC members what the main areas of difference are at a higher level.
I have checked the SALT table etc etc, and I have worked as DM in Australia and Asia and have seen the general diving standard of BSAC members many times.

Can anyone give me an open and honest answer as the pros and cons?..please?

[John Kendall]

I am not trying to be a pain?but. I am currently a PADI DM. I am in the British Armed Forces and the pressure is on for me to become BSAC. I have no problem with this at all; however I would like to know from BSAC members what the main areas of difference are at a higher level.
I have checked the SALT table etc etc, and I have worked as DM in Australia and Asia and have seen the general diving standard of BSAC members many times.

Can anyone give me an open and honest answer as the pros and cons?..please?

Um, Pros and Cons of what? Joining BSAC?

I reckon the biggest Pro of joing BSAC for you is that the most of the British Armed forces Dive clubs are BSAC, and as such, to dive with them you have to be a BSAC member.

As for Cons, well it depends what kind of thing you want to do. If you are a rebreather diver, or a trimix diver, I wouldn't bother, other than that if you could be a bit more specific in your question we will try and help.

HTH
John

[andy lewin]

:=I am not trying to be a pain?but. I am currently a PADI DM. I am in the British Armed Forces and the pressure is on for me to become BSAC. I have no problem with this at all; however I would like to know from BSAC members what the main areas of difference are at a higher level.
:=I have checked the SALT table etc etc, and I have worked as DM in Australia and Asia and have seen the general diving standard of BSAC members many times.
:=
:=Can anyone give me an open and honest answer as the pros and cons?..please?

I am also a member of the Forces in Germany and have come across this problem time and time again. To answer your question in this forum will be difficult as you may have other quals that will also cross over to the BSAC system and therefor reduce a possible training gap.

If you give me a call I will try to help, but I also suggest you speak with your club DO as he will have the diffinative answer. 0049 5231 561600

What concerns me more is that you have said you are "under pressure" why is this and by whom?

Not wanting to start a bun fight but you do not HAVE to be a BSAC diver to dive within the Forces, as John states. The Joint Services Regulations state that IF the diver is not a member of BSAC this is OK but he MUST adopt BSAC practices whilst carrying out club dives within the Forces.

The diver attends 2 theory lessons: Intro to BSAC in it's new form, and BSAC tables.

I dare say that some of these points may be challenged but in there basic form they are correct, I have the regs next to me.

As a final point, I was in exactly the same position, broadening your horizons only makes us more knowledgeable, make your own decision.

Best wishes


Andy

Um, Pros and Cons of what? Joining BSAC?

I reckon the biggest Pro of joing BSAC for you is that the most of the British Armed forces Dive clubs are BSAC, and as such, to dive with them you have to be a BSAC member.

As for Cons, well it depends what kind of thing you want to do. If you are a rebreather diver, or a trimix diver, I wouldn't bother, other than that if you could be a bit more specific in your question we will try and help.

HTH
John

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

I am not trying to be a pain?but. I am currently a PADI DM. I am in the British Armed Forces and the pressure is on for me to become BSAC. I have no problem with this at all; however I would like to know from BSAC members what the main areas of difference are at a higher level.
I have checked the SALT table etc etc, and I have worked as DM in Australia and Asia and have seen the general diving standard of BSAC members many times.

Can anyone give me an open and honest answer as the pros and cons?..please?

Dear ?Diver?

There is not a huge amount of difference, it?s mainly in the detail. Andy has given you a good answer and sounds worth talking to, also please feel free to telephone BSAC HQ (+44 151 350 6200) and ask for the Technical Department, somebody there will be able to give you chapter and verse and will probably have knowledge of the armed forces requirements.

There are a few bits that you will need to know about the BSAC methods and techniques but once those are out of the way you will be a PADI =AND= and BSAC diver, the small amount of effort in finding out about the way we do things should be worth it!

OK, the main practical differences you will find -

+ Our tables are different, if you can manage an RDP you will be able to manage the BSAC 88 tables.

+ There are some slight differences in signals

+ One main difference is the ethos whereby BSAC divers are trained to be independent, we have no real concept of the ?guiding DM? within the BSAC as our divers don?t really need one :-) But having said that your experience in managing divers would be very useful in what we term a ?Dive Marshal?, somebody who is effectively in charge of all diving operations on a boat.

+ Decompression diving is a common and accepted practice, our training teaches it. If you?ve done anything like an ERD course then you?ll have no problems with that either.

+ Don?t expect to be paid :-) We do this for fun?


Any half decent Diving Officer (DO) of a club would welcome you with open arms and recognise your existing training and experience, it depends on the individual diver but we have had many cross-overs where DM?s want to expand their experience and see what the BSAC does, we welcome them!

So come on in, we make it as easy as we can for you and you are more than welcome.

Regards

Keith Lawrence
BSAC Council Member [That?s a ?big wig? within the BSAC :-)]

[John Bantin]

I found myself in a similar position in Spain in the mid 1980s.

The local authority (then the Comandancia de Marinas) did not recognise the BSAC or PADI so in order to dive under my own auspices rather than with a touristic diving centre I had to become a member of a FEDAS club.

So I did.

Local rules sometimes make you jump through local hoops. For example, You have to take a driving test in the UK even if you have a license to drive elsewhere - if you want to stay here and drive.

[Richie771]

I am currently the DO of 1825 SB Catterick Garrison Branch, and as far as we are concerned you may dive with any Service Expedition, but to join a branch, you must become a full BSAC member.

As a Padi DM the crossover to BSAC Advanced diver is not a huge one - you can attend all of the required SDC's at Fort Bovisand (For Free!!!) also while you are there you will learn much about Joint Services Sport Diving and hopefully start the road to gaining your SADS qualification.

Again as a previous thread announced - You are more than welcome to contact me for further info.

Joint Services Sub Aqua Diving Centre can be found in the Military Telephone Directory, If you have a drama finding it - I will E Mail you the number.

Good Luck.

[Mark Allen]

I am not trying to be a pain?but. I am currently a PADI DM. I am in the British Armed Forces and the pressure is on for me to become BSAC. I have no problem with this at all; however I would like to know from BSAC members what the main areas of difference are at a higher level.
I have checked the SALT table etc etc, and I have worked as DM in Australia and Asia and have seen the general diving standard of BSAC members many times.

Can anyone give me an open and honest answer as the pros and cons?..please?

Hi Mark Allen here I too am the Diving Officer of RMB Chivenor and the Secrarty of the RNRMSAA as well as a BSAC Council member (big wig) to quote Keith!!!
You have been given some good answers to your question.
A few small points.
Service clubs run under Joint Service Regs as well as BSAC rules. You have to join the club to come under the regs its a matter of duty of care as when you dive with a service club you are on duty!!! the BSAC third part insurance covers you as well. You can join the club and cross over to Dive leader on the SALT and you should recive some crosser over instruction to bring you in line with the BSAC, you do not need to do any training after that and you would dive as a dive leader. You will also have to have a medical by a service doc before you can join the club. This is a Service rule issued by the DNPTS (Royal Navy)who govern sport diving in the services.
If you are just going to go on Expeditions you are still required to have a medicel and you are also required to have insurance to cover libility. and you will dive on the exped as a Dive Leader, again after you have been informed of the BSAC, JSSAD regs.
As the others have told you if you need more info please mail me and i will send you my phone number.
Mark Allen

[Timd]

Hi,
I am a BSAC& Padi Instructor and have mainly due to my love for the sportfor recreational and teaching purposes.
Iam not a Padi Instructor for "getting paid for it"as some members of BSAC are under the illusion (so called "big wigs").
I have been with BSAC over 20 years and it is without a doubt a great orginisationand the training is second to none with a few differences to Padi(some good/ some not as good)but thats myown personal opinion.
With the BSAC club systemyou can feel part of a club, and many clubs have social events not only for members but non members to.
The transition from one to the other is really simple for someone of your level of experience, and as mentioned any DECENT Diving Officerwould welcome you with open arms.
However the club system can have its pitfalls, The main problems encountered over the years are the club politics which have been rife..... you do get this in any form of club!!
People have ego trips,you have the prima donnasetc ...etc.
With the Padi system you pay your money and if you dont like the centre or the people you walk away and take your money elsewhere!yes you could join another club so at the end of the day you make up your own choice.
As you probably caught onto from some of the previous messages, there are people wholike to think themselves as "BIG WIGS" in my experience as a diver there is no suchthing as a BIG WIG these people are Elected, in some instances because no one else wants the job....However they do a great deal for the club dont get me wrong.
Big Wigs are not super humanswho can be excused from the laws of divingand the physics!!!!
But you dont go into a dive centre and hear someone sayhiwelcome to my Padi Dive centre I am a big wig do you?
It dosnt matter whether you are BSAC, Padi or whoever.....enjoy your diving in the field that attracts you.
I am sure you will make up your own mind.
Happy safe diving
Tim

[DIVER A]

Dear all,

Thank you for all your excellent information. It has left me better informed. I will put myself forward to become a BSAC DL based on your information. As for the services diving aspect I have found the rules and information given by certain people VERY VERY misleading.

My questions might be more directed to towards the Forces chaps, why can I not crossover as a DM to be a SADS for PADI?

Many thanks.

[andy lewin]

As for the services diving aspect I have found the rules and information given by certain people VERY VERY misleading.

Do you mean from this forum or other sources?.

My questions might be more directed to towards the Forces chaps, why can I not crossover as a DM to be a SADS for PADI?

I don't quite understand the question, call.

best wishes

andy

[Richie771]

The Supervisor Qualification is not a BSAC or PADI qualification - It is a Tri-Service qualification to enable you to supervise Service Sport Diving whilst on Duty.

There are many other activities in the serices which require similar supervision - i.e. Mountineering (JSMEL (S/W)).

You may supervise Divers from any organisation, the point being that you are there to ensure that the diving is as safe as it can posibly be, and that any incidents are managed safely and quickly.

The criteria however is that you must be a BSAC Advanced Diver, as the BSAC is the official diving body for the Armed Forces - However you may be a member of any other organisation.

Agreed your Padi DM qualification is a worthy one, which I know has come from many courses and hard work, But the BSAC Advanced Diver qualification is quite specific to UK diving and Rescue Management.

Whilst on your SADS course you will assesed on aspects such as:

Diving upto 50 meters
Dives involving planned decompression stops
Rescue management scenarios
Boat handling & Boat Navigation Skills
Dive Instruction (If Qualified as NQI)
Detailed Dive planning & Air requirements
Chartwork
Surface Marshalling Skills
Practical Rescue Skills
First Aid
VHF Radio Operation

Any many more..............