SMB/DSMB deployment best way? [Archive] - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

Ed Howarth

10-06-2009, 18:52

BSAC teaches this method as it minimises many of the risks. If at all possible you should clip the reel to a bit of wreckage etc. If you cannot clip off, you should share the task of deployment with your buddy.

As you become well practiced, you may wish to deploy your dsmb by yourself, in mid water, and maybe when in deco. Some people use their exhaust bubbles or their primary reg (the one normally in their mouth). However, all this involves added (and sometimes serious) risk and you should be very aware of this fact.

Start simple and safe, only "do" risky when your skills are so good that they are minimised.

And (speaking as an instructor) remember that people will copy you even though their skills might not be as good as yours. You might inadvertantly be leading them towards an incident in the future.

Ed

David Walker

10-06-2009, 18:56

Everyone's idea of "best" varies. Mostly comes down to what you know and what you're comfortable with. Anyone who tells you one single method is best is lying to you.

My preference however, while I do use my octopus, almost certainly isn't the method you were taught. Basic idea is the same, but I use a spool (which i don't need to hold - it's neutrally buoyant and just hangs in the water while i'm deploying the DSMB - and have modified my DSMB to remove the long strap loops (replacing the loop with an eyelet in each end of the cut-off strap), which just get in the way, can get caught on things, and don't seem to perform any useful purpose.

I find that my modifications have addressed all of the usual criticisms of that technique. The other thing is having quality regs - if you purge your octopus quickly in cold water and they're not good quality cold-water rated regs, then you can get a freeflow. But decent kit setup properly solves that problem too.

David

Nigel Hewitt

10-06-2009, 18:59

I've copleted a lesson and I was taught the deployment of an SMB, it was by using the octupos method.

Is this the best method, or is they a better way if so what is it??
Do what works for you in a way that is safe.

The important thing is not to get attached to the thing.

I like the self inflaters, the ones with a little gas cylinder, but I've inflated them on the octo, or by putting it over my regulator exhausts and exhaling three good (quick) breaths and, a new one this last week, stuffed the wing inflater into one and held down both the fill and dump buttons at once.

Provided you get a nice big block of gas into them and you keep the line well away from anything it can snag on if it works it works. Just make sure that if the reel jams or something you can let go. I've needed to do this three times and recovering it from the surface is annoying but if you go with it you're going home via Coastguard Airways.

MikeTickle

10-06-2009, 20:28

Hi,

I've copleted a lesson and I was taught the deployment of an SMB, it was by using the octupos method.

Is this the best method, or is they a better way if so what is it??

Thanks

As a sports diver I found the best way was to be either strapped to something or very negative and sat on the bottom. I never did have a jammed real, but this would have given me time to react.

When I started on my dive leader training I knew I would have to do a mid water launch and not alter my position in the water much while doing so. I practiced this with the real clipped to a buddy line fastened to a training platform. Using exhaused gas from your primary DV you have a tangle hazard. Using your oco you have a free flow risk (when doing early season training dives in freezing cold quarries.
I reasoned I could get the best of both worlds, and minimize my buoyancy change by taking my BC dump/inflate hose and putting that in the bag. Less to snag than a reg and the controls at hand for adding/dumping buoyancy.

The pattern I got in to was while taking a deep breath dump a little air from the jacket in to the dSMB. This little bit of air will make the dSMB easier to fill as the top will float out of the way. Check you are free form snags and pressing the dump and fill buttons with the hose slightly elevated (on my jacket at least) sends are out of the dump with out adding to the BC. The dSMB slips though your fingers and you are good.
Practicing with the training platform gives a visual reference so you can see if you are going up or down and the buddy line stops you going too far. If you lie horizontally in the water while doing it you also get a feel when/if the dSMB starts to pull you up.

Of course the first time I did this under assessment my instructor stayed perfectly level with me - the whole exercise I used him as the visual reference the platform had provided. The problem was he was tracking my depth in the water so I did not realize that while setting up I was slowly sinking. Not much, but enough not to pass. With a bit of practice I found it was possible to do all this while wathing my computer.

After I passed the assessment I treated myself to a buddy dSMBi - it has a refillable bottle. Just release the ratchet and open the bottle and off it goes. I used this the other week for an advanced nitrox course, well I used that dSMB - but I was requested to manually fill it. On the first of the two dives my real jammed to I let go and waved as it shot to the surface. It was a good launch, and I let go before it pulled me up, but I needed to do it again.

My method is certainly not common, but it works for me and that's the main point.

Mike

funkymonkey

10-06-2009, 20:52

Hi Mike,

Realy good answer, just checking I've read this right. You remove the low pressure hose for your BCD in water?

Thanks

northern_diver

10-06-2009, 22:31

funkymonkey...didnt you say you were doing OD training? are OD's dSMB trained now, i think thats a move in the right direction.

er...from what i gather, he uses he exhast gases from his BCD to at the very least partially inflate the dSMB, seemingly full inflate it however. this way the gases you would normally dump insome manner to prevent the dSMB deployment from draging you up, are put to good use rather than...dumped to the water. bouyancy controls is also very much to hand.

i didnt read much on disconnecting the hose though, maybe i missed that bit as i am off to bed...or misunderstood because im foreign....lol

mike, the sounds like a interesting way of doing the deployment, next time im in water and have a chance, i think i'll give that a go....as from what i gather, as the INFLATE and DEFLATE button are pressed at the same time, the inflator acts much like the octo (or main reg if old school) would. i like that, must try it out as i say.

-i use my octo mainly with the exhast gases to make it unroll/stand up a little in reply to you question.

john

funkymonkey

10-06-2009, 22:36

Hi John,

Correct am ocean diver, but my instructer had his on him and we decided to have look at them and bit of practice while in the pool.

hilrosepaul

10-06-2009, 22:37

The simplest way I've found of inflating a Self sealing DSMB is using an air gun.

Run an extra hose off the pony / 1st stage with a gun at the end.

to deploy the DSMB; unstow the gun and hose. Put the gun in the bag, squeeze or bend the gun and let go when it tugs. The blob surfaces, the gun / hose drops out and can be restowed by you or a co-operative buddy.

Can be done in 5mm gloves at any depth (only personally tested up to 25m so far)

MikeTickle

11-06-2009, 07:16

....as from what i gather, as the INFLATE and DEFLATE button are pressed at the same time, the inflator acts much like the octo (or main reg if old school) would.

That's the one - no need to disconnect anything.

You can get a gizmo that connects to a LP hose, which I could put on the spare LP hose on my pony, that is used for filling lift bags and dSMBs. You press a button and air comes out. The reason I did not go for one of these is I figure if things go wrong and I need buoyancy from my pony I don't want to have to take something off.

You can also get dSMBs with a nozzel like on the BC inflator, but missing the bit that makes it catch. You put a LP hose in, air shoots in to the bag and as there is no catch once it starts going up it disconnects itself. I didn't go this way as I worry the connector would jam and then it is not just a simple job of letting go of the reel.

Cheers

Mike

Steve Walsh

11-06-2009, 08:24

Do what works for you in a way that is safe.

The important thing is not to get attached to the thing.

I like the self inflaters, the ones with a little gas cylinder, but I've inflated them on the octo, or by putting it over my regulator exhausts and exhaling three good (quick) breaths and, a new one this last week, stuffed the wing inflater into one and held down both the fill and dump buttons at once.

Provided you get a nice big block of gas into them and you keep the line well away from anything it can snag on if it works it works. Just make sure that if the reel jams or something you can let go. I've needed to do this three times and recovering it from the surface is annoying but if you go with it you're going home via Coastguard Airways.

and if you do do it with a buddy, then make sure they are practiced in your reel use so they don't press the lever too far and jam it ( McMahon big yellow one) .

northern_diver

11-06-2009, 08:48

I thought so, dont worry, im not going to go all 'your not in the magical ranks of SD yet so cant have our great knowledge' crap...i was just hoping that the training had changed to make dSMB part of OD....i just happen tothink it should be.

Good on you for showing an interest, its always good to know how to do things like that.

john

PeteM

11-06-2009, 08:56

and if you do do it with a buddy, then make sure they are practiced in your reel use so they don't press the lever too far and jam it ( McMahon big yellow one) .

That should be old style big McMahon - new style have a lump of plastic to solve the problem and save you having to put a stainless blot through the handle

Steve Walsh

11-06-2009, 10:57

That should be old style big McMahon - new style have a lump of plastic to solve the problem and save you having to put a stainless blot through the handle

Ooh great a chance to spend money on dive kit for a legitimate reason :D

well OK perhaps not.

Woz

11-06-2009, 10:58

The absolute easiest way to deploy a DSMB is with a CO2 blob and a spool. Winding a spool in is a bit of a pain but with practice it becomes really easy.

Oral inflate is easy too as long as you don't try to stuff the exhaust of your reg up the DSMB but instead, hold the reel and one side of the DSMB skirt in your left hand and open the skirt of the DSMB with your right. Hold the lot above your head, look up, and "catch" the bubbles in the DSMB. Nothing to snag on, up there.

My least favourite is purging a reg into the bottom of a DSMB. Have seen too many regs freeflow and there's too many things to get caught on.

To practice, get hold of a cheap DSMB (Go-Dive do an open ended one for a fiver) and cut a small hole in the top. Then you can repeatedly launch from 20m and wind it back down again once the air has leaked out and experiment with whichever method suits you. Oh and put PRACTICE BLOB on it in big letters!

Terry

11-06-2009, 14:03

Woz
I have a practise blob that is full of small holes and like you say it works a treat. Even if I lock the reel deliberatly the pull only lasts for a couple of seconds.
Tomorrow, If I remember I will try your inflate hose method, Ive not heard of it before but it sounds like a good idea as if the deployment goes bad then my hand is in the correct place to dump.
I will revert when Ive tried it
Terry

Mike Rowley

11-06-2009, 14:20

( McMahon big yellow one) .

Speaking as a skipper and having spent 20 years peering at DSMBs, can I advise that if you wish to have the best chance of being noticed by the boat crew yellow is the last colour you should choose for your primary DSMB. When the skipper is laying down stream awaiting your DSMB arriving on the surface and if the sun is facing him a yellow DSMB is the best camaflage possible. A flourescent orange or red is by far the best compromise. Yellow stands out well against a dark backgound and is a good colour for a flag since it would be conspicuous to a helicopter pilot.

Basically it comes down to Red/Orange if you don't want to be missed, Yellow for signalling or if you want an air/sea search party to find you after becoming lost.

The protocol adopted by BSAC for DSMBs is red/orange for primary and/or back-up with yellow sent up same line to signal a problem. Without a slate attached = need gas, slate attached indicating the problem and assistance required.:)

As Nigel says, the self inflator (little cylinder) is by far the easiest way. The spool works well for mid water deployment but has limited utility for bottom deployment.

David Walker

11-06-2009, 23:32

The spool works well for mid water deployment but has limited utility for bottom deployment.

Only if your spool's too small! :rolleyes:

You're kinda right though, in that I wouldn't want to spool in quickly as I would need to when ascending from a relatively deep dive. But I would use a spool in preference to my main reel on any dive less than 30m - especially drifts, where I find the small floaty spool so much nicer than a big heavy reel.

Would definitely suggest anyone who hasn't used one tries one though - obviously practice somewhere shallow and controlled, but after a few goes I think they're great! And mine goes happily in my pocket already connected to my Buddy DSMB, just pull it out and it's ready to go.

David

Drjon

11-06-2009, 23:48

When diving OC (Open Circuit) I open the bottom of the DSMB place over the exhale of my Poseidon Jetstream ( the one in my mouth), breathe 2 breaths into the SMB and let go, just releasing the reel. No fumbling, no airgun etc. With lift bags, I deploy them with their own cylinders, as I am never attached to them.

When diving CCR, all SMB's regardless of colour, green (Emergency), red, orange, they all have their own CO2 cylinder, is just a case of pull the cord, and let it go.

There is no correct way, just the way that suits you. Remember that you need to employ some quick release method if you are going to have it attached to you on deployment.

Safe Diving

Steve Walsh

12-06-2009, 07:08

Speaking as a skipper and having spent 20 years peering at DSMBs, can I advise that if you wish to have the best chance of being noticed by the boat crew yellow is the last colour you should choose for your primary DSMB. When the skipper is laying down stream awaiting your DSMB arriving on the surface and if the sun is facing him a yellow DSMB is the best camaflage possible. A flourescent orange or red is by far the best compromise. Yellow stands out well against a dark backgound and is a good colour for a flag since it would be conspicuous to a helicopter pilot.

Basically it comes down to Red/Orange if you don't want to be missed, Yellow for signalling or if you want an air/sea search party to find you after becoming lost.

The protocol adopted by BSAC for DSMBs is red/orange for primary and/or back-up with yellow sent up same line to signal a problem. Without a slate attached = need gas, slate attached indicating the problem and assistance required.:)

As Nigel says, the self inflator (little cylinder) is by far the easiest way. The spool works well for mid water deployment but has limited utility for bottom deployment.

good job i have a red DSMBi then. the reel is the Yellow one :D

where is this protocol recorded as I and others have been searching for years to find a written authorised statement about blob colours.

I also am nearly finished making Janos' wonderful yellow flag from bits 'sourced' from work :D

Gordon

12-06-2009, 07:14

I think the blob colours are given in Safe Diving Practices

G

Gareth

12-06-2009, 07:56

good job i have a red DSMBi then. the reel is the Yellow one :D

where is this protocol recorded as I and others have been searching for years to find a written authorised statement about blob colours.

I also am nearly finished making Janos' wonderful yellow flag from bits 'sourced' from work :D

Steve

There is a brief outline in ST3, as part of the DSMB - Diver to surface signals.

The subject is covered in significantly more depth in the BSAC technical courses, both technically & practicaly.

The issues of colour & visability has been published, both in diving magazines & other sources.

Gareth

northern_diver

12-06-2009, 09:47

SAFEdiving-page 15 does comment on colours for dSMB.

I been thinking on this deployment issue, in regards to mikes method.

Have you ever found that your BCD has filled up with water a little and made your heavier with your method? As i just looking at some picks of the trainee's from the weekend and saw one empty out her BCD from normal 'in/out' stuff and the thought came that with that method, it might occur if not timed/regulated well.

Also, have you tried it on other types/brands of BCD as froom my understanding, the inflate and purge fuction must have to be fairly matched to prevent a loss or gaining of bouyancy.

Just some thoughts, im still going to try it out next time its safe and suitable to do so.

John

Nudibranch

12-06-2009, 10:11

Ed Howarth

12-06-2009, 10:38

Don't want to hijack the thread here but what's the best way to keep the dsmb and reel together for stowing in a pocket or clipping on to yourself? Have been looking at some club members' kit and there's lots of bungee but is there a particular way to do it?

Don't really like clipping it on unless its somewhere behind. If on your front, it generally hangs down when you are horizontal in the water and looks definately uncool. The way you bungy it will depend on the reel and bag you're using. Just experiment. But is has to be secure, you don't want 50 metres of line unreeling behind you. :eek:

I find its best to use a small reel and stuff everything in a suit pocket. It then doesn't need a bungy.

Ed

Nigel Hewitt

12-06-2009, 10:48

Mike Rowley

12-06-2009, 10:55

:D

where is this protocol recorded as I and others have been searching for years to find a written authorised statement about blob colours.

:D

We wrote it into the BSAC Tech courses and it is included in the Appendix of each manual Steve. As Gareth says it is also in ST3 as a shortened version. I will see if I can dig a version out and post it here.:)

Ed Howarth

12-06-2009, 11:05

<spam filter off> Some advocate clipping to a butt ring which is attached to the crotch strap of a harness<spam filter on>
I find that a little difficult to reach and is mildly disconcerting as I can feel the thing "dangling". :o

My solution is to mount a billy ring secured with a jubilee clip on the base of the cylinder. Adjust the position so it is far enough behind you not to dangle but can just be reached.

The above, in my case, is for twins but I suppose there's no reason why similar could not be used with a single.

Ed

Mike Rowley

12-06-2009, 11:31

where is this protocol recorded as I and others have been searching for years to find a written authorised statement about blob colours.

Steve,

These are the Apedixes from the AMG manual.:)

Steve Walsh

12-06-2009, 12:24

Woz

12-06-2009, 12:29

I stow both blobs and spools in my RH suit pocket. They both fit nicely. If I'm taking a bigger reel, I have a stainless 40mm ring tightly fixed with bungee onto the bottom right of my backplate. Clip it off there and it doesn't dangle yet is easy to find and unclip.

This also works well if you are carrying a big reel and Autoblob- hangs out of the way rather than dangling down.

http://www.kitfondle.co.uk/images/wozblob-stowed2.jpg

Mike Rowley

12-06-2009, 12:36

[QUOTE=Steve Walsh]I know we have them in BSAC, but there are other agencies, thats what i am getting at.

PADI don't officially mention DSMBs until you do the DSMB spec, and say nothing about colours.

QUOTE]

The protocol we adopted for the technical courses came from practice that has evolved over a number of years, we just put it into a formal course context and then it was adopted for general diver training within the BSAC. Lets hope it is progressively adopted by all agencies as good practice.

Gareth

12-06-2009, 13:20

I know we have them in BSAC, but there are other agencies, thats what i am getting at.

PADI don't officially mention DSMBs until you do the DSMB spec, and say nothing about colours.

Personally all i have ever owned is a red or reddyorange one. as the yellow ones were about twice the price.

Steve

Go to the British Diving Safety Group, see here (http://www.bdsg.org/).

All the recognisable diving agencies are members, including PADI. Under safety you will see the agreed details regarding DSMB colours & signal protocols. (There is also a european publication, I can't find it at the moment.)

PADI do do a DSMB course, but I think its very dependent on the instructor. They have also agreed the colour protocols, see BDSG.
Normally PADI materials are excellent. However, the 'special' courses are alot more dependent on the instructor.

Gareth

allen

12-06-2009, 13:33

Go to the British Diving Safety Group, see here (http://www.bdsg.org/).
Gareth
The BDSG website appears to be down, but there's a copy of their recommendations on the Scotsac site here: http://www.scotsac.com/PDF-downloads/safety/BDSG_advice_regarding_DSMBs.pdf

David Walker

16-06-2009, 19:30

Don't want to hijack the thread here but what's the best way to keep the dsmb and reel together for stowing in a pocket or clipping on to yourself? Have been looking at some club members' kit and there's lots of bungee but is there a particular way to do it?

Depends almost entirely on the specific reel / DSMB combination you're talking about.

I do however keep a DSMB connected ready-to-go on both my reels.

- My big reel is a 50m Custom Divers thing, which always has a Buddy DSMBi (the one with a 0.1l bottle attached). I added a small bungee loop to one side of the reel, which is just long enough to go over the DSMB and clip to the release knob for the ratchet on the reel. Obviously the DSMB is also clipped to the end of the line. Very secure, has never slipped out, takes seconds to get it ready to go. Pretty much as small as it would be possible to get this combination. I clip it to a D ring on my right hip, placed quite a long way back on my waist harness.

- My small reel is actually just a spool, with a normal Buddy DSMB attached. They're not bungeed together, just connected by the clip on the end of my reel. They fit together in my drysuit pocket though so not a problem. Again, its about as small as it'll go and have never fallen apart or got tangled.

Just play around with different methods with your reel + DSMB and see what works best. My main aim is to be compact, both parts pre-attached, easy to setup, and very very quick and easy to release them and have them ready to go.

David

northern_diver

16-06-2009, 21:15

Maria CM

16-06-2009, 22:07

- My big reel is a 50m Custom Divers thing, which always has a Buddy DSMBi (the one with a 0.1l bottle attached). I added a small bungee loop to one side of the reel, which is just long enough to go over the DSMB and clip to the release knob for the ratchet on the reel. Obviously the DSMB is also clipped to the end of the line. Very secure, has never slipped out, takes seconds to get it ready to go. Pretty much as small as it would be possible to get this combination. I clip it to a D ring on my right hip, placed quite a long way back on my waist harness.

Like above but with a smaller reel - I either stash it in my BC pocket though or in my drysuit leg pocket. I personally find it annoying if it is just clipped on anywhere as it seems to bob and bump about... that's probably just the way I attach it though....

best wishes,

Maria

PeteM

17-06-2009, 09:08

Had a chat with some friends, this method came up.

The line, of suitable thickness to be used and much the same as those in reels is wrapped around the dSMB, a small weight, of only a couple Kg is attached to the eng of the line, with the other used on the dSMB side.

The line is dropped out, as far as it needs to go down, then the dSMB is deployed, holding gentle to the line, which travels through your fingers. your then pull yourself up the line, with the weight holding it stright-ish. Once on the surface, you pull in the line.

Some benefits and some disadvantages, not sure as yet if i will be trying it open water, though suppose i will out of interest.

John

It is called a drop line and is covered in a couple of the SDC's such as advanced nitrox. You do not need a couple of KG's weight, you just need something to sink the line. A fishing weight or large bolt is sufficient.

Only really works for mid water deployment at reasonably shallow depths otherwise there is too much danger of the line getting tangled, so you need to think about how far you will have moved between leaving the bottom and getting to deployment depth. Because of that I would only use as a backup method or on holiday style dives and even then I think a spool does a better job.

One thing you do say worries me, you say "pull yourself up the line", hopefully you mean that figuratively not literally. DSMB line (however deployed) is there as a guide not to haul yourself to the surface

northern_diver

17-06-2009, 12:17

It is called a drop line and is covered in a couple of the SDC's such as advanced nitrox. You do not need a couple of KG's weight, you just need something to sink the line. A fishing weight or large bolt is sufficient.

Only really works for mid water deployment at reasonably shallow depths otherwise there is too much danger of the line getting tangled, so you need to think about how far you will have moved between leaving the bottom and getting to deployment depth. Because of that I would only use as a backup method or on holiday style dives and even then I think a spool does a better job.

One thing you do say worries me, you say "pull yourself up the line", hopefully you mean that figuratively not literally. DSMB line (however deployed) is there as a guide not to haul yourself to the surface

Indeed,

You acsent the line using it as a reference, not climb up the thing like some mountain climber.

I never actually encountered it before a few days ago, as unless i forgot, it wasnt on the AD.NITROX course i completed, we deployed our mid water stuff with a normal reel etc.

When i heard about it though, the first thought i had was of this lenght of line going all over the place. I have not used it however.

John

Sophie

17-06-2009, 13:03

All good stuff, but whoever said that if you can't attach it to a piece of wreckage then get your buddy to help does not look at the issue of whether you can deploy as a solo operator. BSAC teaches that we should 1) Deploy solo from the bottom (if able attach to wreckage) and use the Octopus. 2) Get a buddy to help with deployment after you have done it solo (if you get separated there is no point in only being able to send it off with your buddy's help!) and then during Nitrox training, mid-water deployment is introduced. Whether it be a spool or whatever, you must be able to deploy it solo!

PeteM

17-06-2009, 13:09

I never actually encountered it before a few days ago, as unless i forgot, it wasnt on the AD.NITROX course i completed, we deployed our mid water stuff with a normal reel etc.

It is not a required technique to be taught in the practical day of AND, the requirement there is just for a mid water DSMB whilst holding the depth. But it should be covered in the deco procedures lecture, slide 23 and 25 of the 01 AV's.

When i heard about it though, the first thought i had was of this lenght of line going all over the place. I have not used it however.

It is not as bad as it sounds, you've come up to the say 9M, your drop line has 10M of line on it. If the line is wrapped round the weight then you just drop the weight and it pays itself out below you*, you inflate the DSMB and when you let go let the line run up, weight stops just below you. The two things you need to make sure is that you are shallower than 10M when you deploy and the sea bed is deeper than 20M. You can wind the line up whilst waiting for the pick up.

But I still think a spool is easier :D

* this is where using a big bolt with a couple of nuts comes into play, if you think about it as a dumb bell shape with the string round the middle, then dropping it should unwind it cleanly as the nuts and bolt head stop the string sliding off the end

Graham Barker

17-06-2009, 13:34

Steve,

These are the Apedixes from the AMG manual.:)

Thanks for those, Mike. I know that you were trying to clear up some of the issues, but I'm now more confused than ever!! On Appendix E (Divers on DSMB), the diagram with the Red & Yellow DSMB's are shown being deployed on 2 SEPARATE lines!! Now it may not seem a big deal to you, but surely the out-of-gas recommended protocol suggests sending up a yellow DSMB on the SAME line as the Orange. Maybe the drawing should be changed to make it clearer!!

On the other Appendix E (Divers on Decompression Station -why not have separate appendices??), the blurb keeps referring to "Yellow Hard Buoys", which I assume to mean a permanent on-surface buoy - both pictures indicate a yellow DSMB!!! Also if it really is a "Hard Buoy" which is always on the surface, how can this indicate anything :confused: ??!!

I'm not trying to be pickie, but doesn't anyone 'proof-read' these manuals (and I don't want to upset anyone of the fine body of people who put an awful lot of work into bringing these courses to fruition - they do an excellent job).

Finally, and to put a cat amongst the pigeons, I recently read somewhere on t'internet thingy, that the Yanks (don't you just love them! :D ) have the reverse DSMB protocol - Yellow is OK and Red is Help :rolleyes: !!! Don't know if that's an old wives tale??!!

Cheers

northern_diver

17-06-2009, 13:56

On the British Diving Safety Group Website links (from allen/gareth et al) it comments that North America does use Yellow as a standard and Red as an emergency indicator....

hilrosepaul

17-06-2009, 14:00

On the British Diving Safety Group Website links (from allen/gareth et al) it comments that North America does use Yellow as a standard and Red as an emergency indicator....

I suppose that goes some way to explaining the two-tone Buddy DSMB

Mike Rowley

17-06-2009, 14:58

On Appendix E (Divers on DSMB), the diagram with the Red & Yellow DSMB's are shown being deployed on 2 SEPARATE lines!! Now it may not seem a big deal to you, but surely the out-of-gas recommended protocol suggests sending up a yellow DSMB on the SAME line as the Orange. Maybe the drawing should be changed to make it clearer!!

A red and yellow together indicates a problem (gas required) regardless of whether they are on the same line or not. The protocol to send the yellow up the same line is preferred as this should avoid confusion. Yellow on its own means this should be treated as a problem until proven otherwise. People should clarify their intentions to the skipper/Dive Manager before the dive.

On the other Appendix E (Divers on Decompression Station -why not have separate appendices??), the blurb keeps referring to "Yellow Hard Buoys", which I assume to mean a permanent on-surface buoy - both pictures indicate a yellow DSMB!!! Also if it really is a "Hard Buoy" which is always on the surface, how can this indicate anything :confused: ??!!

You need to understand that this comes from the Advanced Mixed Gas manual. It explains the proceedure for using a decompression station. The yellow hard buoy (It can be any colour s long as it is agreed and understood by all) is a small hard buoy, the sort of thing fishermen use as underwater net floats. It is usually clipped to the trapeze on a light line such that it can be released to the surface as and when required. This is used to signal that a diver/divers have failed to make it back to the decompression station and the skipper should expect to find them or their DSMB/s down stream, gas or other emergency actions may be required by them. These particular elements would not be included in the DTP as they are not really relevant to recreational diving.

I'm not trying to be pickie, but doesn't anyone 'proof-read' these manuals (and I don't want to upset anyone of the fine body of people who put an awful lot of work into bringing these courses to fruition - they do an excellent job).

Yes, they do and thank you for your compliment. I wrote this particular bit and some members of this forum, amongst others, helped out with the proof reading. You have to bear in mind that the course instructor would be expanding on the diagrams, clarifying the points. There would also be practical use of the deco station during the course. There is only so much you can convey just by a diagram.

Finally, and to put a cat amongst the pigeons, I recently read somewhere on t'internet thingy, that the Yanks (don't you just love them! :D ) have the reverse DSMB protocol - Yellow is OK and Red is Help :rolleyes: !!! Don't know if that's an old wives tale??!!

What can I say. They even reverse buoyage on the Pacific coast! IALA System B:eek:

Mike Halligan

17-06-2009, 19:35

Finally, and to put a cat amongst the pigeons, I recently read somewhere on t'internet thingy, that the Yanks (don't you just love them! ) have the reverse DSMB protocol - Yellow is OK and Red is Help !!! Don't know if that's an old wives tale??!!

What can I say. They even reverse buoyage on the Pacific coast! IALA System B:eek:

IALA B applies to the whole of North & South America. Which may explain the inaccuracy of Americans in many things, but not then the accuracy of Canadians. :eek:

Steve Walsh

18-06-2009, 07:30

People should clarify their intentions to the skipper/Dive Manager before the dive.

and thats the way I was taught. as long as the manager ,or skipper if its not a club dive, knows what the bags mean then there shouldn't be a problem.

effective communication , rather than assumptions, which we know are the mother of all ....

Graham Barker

18-06-2009, 09:16

A red and yellow together indicates a problem (gas required) regardless of whether they are on the same line or not. The protocol to send the yellow up the same line is preferred as this should avoid confusion. Yellow on its own means this should be treated as a problem until proven otherwise. People should clarify their intentions to the skipper/Dive Manager before the dive.

Thanks for the clarification - most useful. I think that the most important point here (as picked up in a later post), is the last sentence! :(

You need to understand that this comes from the Advanced Mixed Gas manual. It explains the proceedure for using a decompression station. The yellow hard buoy (It can be any colour s long as it is agreed and understood by all) is a small hard buoy, the sort of thing fishermen use as underwater net floats. It is usually clipped to the trapeze on a light line such that it can be released to the surface as and when required. This is used to signal that a diver/divers have failed to make it back to the decompression station and the skipper should expect to find them or their DSMB/s down stream, gas or other emergency actions may be required by them. These particular elements would not be included in the DTP as they are not really relevant to recreational diving.

Never thought of using a small hard buoy like this before - doh!!! :o I suppose that I should work up to doing a Mixed Gas course to make things clear :cool: . I agree that these topics should be very much left out of the mainstream DTP.

Yes, they do and thank you for your compliment. I wrote this particular bit and some members of this forum, amongst others, helped out with the proof reading. You have to bear in mind that the course instructor would be expanding on the diagrams, clarifying the points. There would also be practical use of the deco station during the course. There is only so much you can convey just by a diagram.

"A picture can say a thousand words....", but there are limitations!!! :D

What can I say. They even reverse buoyage on the Pacific coast! IALA System B:eek:

Ah, they always like to do things differently!!! :rolleyes:

Cheers