EU shark finning legislation

[Jeremy Stafford-Deitsch]

The Shark Trust has been campaigning for 2 years to have the EU fishing fleets adopt rational and sustainable shark fishing/finning practices so that the stocks of these vulnerable animals can be monitored and preserved. Unfortunately we have just discovered that our proposals have been rejected and that new, inadequate proposals are being introduced at an accelerated pace.
If you are interested in the plight of sharks please take the time to read up on this issue on the Shark Trust website (www.sharktrust.org), sign our petition and spread the word!

Thank you.

Jeremy Stafford-Deitsch.

[John Bantin]

What about cod?
Sorry Jeremy but as long as Tesco has got fish for sale it will always be thought that there will always be plenty more fish in the sea. No industrialized fishing is ecologically sustainable - but do we eat fish?
Now if it was proved that fish gave you SARS or BSE I am sure the international press would get interested.
As far as most British divers go, they KNOW sharks eat people and hope never to see one during a dive.
Incidently, I just got back from a trip to Cocos and Malpelo where the shark populations are obviously reduced over past levels, despite them being in Marine Reserves. The sharks still have to run the gauntlet of the long-liners to get there.
The Crown Prince of Dubai has got the right idea. Evidently he is intent on building a diving world on the new Palm islands. No doubt there will be plenty of sharks - even if they are plastic!
Do I sound pessimistic?

[Jeremy Stafford-Deitsch]

What about cod?
Sorry Jeremy but as long as Tesco has got fish for sale it will always be thought that there will always be plenty more fish in the sea. No industrialized fishing is ecologically sustainable - but do we eat fish?
Now if it was proved that fish gave you SARS or BSE I am sure the international press would get interested.
As far as most British divers go, they KNOW sharks eat people and hope never to see one during a dive.
Incidently, I just got back from a trip to Cocos and Malpelo where the shark populations are obviously reduced over past levels, despite them being in Marine Reserves. The sharks still have to run the gauntlet of the long-liners to get there.
The Crown Prince of Dubai has got the right idea. Evidently he is intent on building a diving world on the new Palm islands. No doubt there will be plenty of sharks - even if they are plastic!
Do I sound pessimistic?


You are meant to be drumming up support - not going off on tangents! I believe that most divers would be thrilled to see a shark when diving and will want to contribute their share to the conservation of these beasts.
Jeremy.

[Dave]

You are meant to be drumming up support - not going off on tangents!

Umm, why should he be? Are people not allowed to have views other than yours ?

Dave

[Steve Walker]

What about cod?
Sorry Jeremy but as long as Tesco has got fish for sale it will always be thought that there will always be plenty more fish in the sea.

As a diving journalist (not sure if you're full or part time in that) perhaps you could be doing something to help The Shark Trust raise awareness of the problem, rather than giving what seems to be a metaphorical 'shoulder shrug' ?

As far as most British divers go, they KNOW sharks eat people and hope never to see one during a dive.

I'm Incredulous! You need to meet a wider variety of divers John; most divers I know would be ecstatic to see a shark. Additionally, your statment above demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge about shark behaviour, only SOME species are known to attack humans; Tiger, Bull Great White, Hammerhead, Mako etc. Of the 350 or so shark species only 32 species are suggested to be involved in attacks on humans, most of which are believed to be accidents. Statistically you're more likly to be killed by lightening than by a shark, though far more likely to be killed whilst driving to the dive site (I believe that statistically, around 8 people die every day as a result of RTAs)

Do I sound pessimistic?

Worse! your post sounds like you don't believe any effort should or could be made to do something about situations like this.

Jeremy, I hope you realise that some BSAC divers do care about issues such as this. I have been told that our NDO Lizzie Bird is involved in BSAC Environmental Initiatives, though what these may be I have yet to discover for myself, perhaps it would be more productive to contact BSAC HQ ?

I think John and Dave's posts clearly indicate that our organization could do a lot better in terms of our approach to the marine environment.

Regards
Steve Walker(FWIW, PhD Marine Biology)

[fionab]

As far as most British divers go, they KNOW sharks eat people and hope never to see one during a dive.

Actually John I think you will find that most british divers who go to warm waters for their holidays DO want to see sharks and kwow that sharks very rarely EAT people, people just happen to be in the wrong place.

One of the trips I went on we were hoping to see Hammerheads and were very dissapointed that we didn't.

[Dominic Humphries]

"But in the course of discussions the proposed regulations have been progressively watered down, and the Commission is now poised to sign off on a set of regulations that are, essentially, pointless"

Something along these lines, I suspect...

In the beginning was The Plan
And then came the Assumptions

And the Assumptions were without form
And the Plan was without substance

And darkness was upon the face of the workers
And the workers spoke amongst themselves, saying ?This is a crock of $h1t and it stinks.?

And the workers went unto their Supervisors and said, ?It is a pail of dung and we can?t live with the smell.?

And the Supervisors went unto their Managers, saying ?It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong, such that none may abide by it.?

And the Managers went unto their Directors saying, ?It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none may abide its strength.?

And the Directors spoke amongst themselves, saying to one another, ?it contains that which aids plant growth, and it is very strong.?

And the Directors went to the Vice Presidents, saying unto them, ?It promotes growth and it is very powerful.?

And the Vice Presidents went to the President, saying unto him, ?This new plan will actively promote the growth and vigour of the company with very powerful effects.?

And the President looked upon the Plan and saw that it was good.
And the Plan became Policy

And now you know how $h1t happens!

[Jeremy Stafford-Deitsch]

:=What about cod?
:=Sorry Jeremy but as long as Tesco has got fish for sale it will always be thought that there will always be plenty more fish in the sea.

As a diving journalist (not sure if you're full or part time in that) perhaps you could be doing something to help The Shark Trust raise awareness of the problem, rather than giving what seems to be a metaphorical 'shoulder shrug' ?

:=As far as most British divers go, they KNOW sharks eat people and hope never to see one during a dive.

I'm Incredulous! You need to meet a wider variety of divers John; most divers I know would be ecstatic to see a shark. Additionally, your statment above demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge about shark behaviour, only SOME species are known to attack humans; Tiger, Bull Great White, Hammerhead, Mako etc. Of the 350 or so shark species only 32 species are suggested to be involved in attacks on humans, most of which are believed to be accidents. Statistically you're more likly to be killed by lightening than by a shark, though far more likely to be killed whilst driving to the dive site (I believe that statistically, around 8 people die every day as a result of RTAs)

:=Do I sound pessimistic?



Worse! your post sounds like you don't believe any effort should or could be made to do something about situations like this.

Jeremy, I hope you realise that some BSAC divers do care about issues such as this. I have been told that our NDO Lizzie Bird is involved in BSAC Environmental Initiatives, though what these may be I have yet to discover for myself, perhaps it would be more productive to contact BSAC HQ ?

I think John and Dave's posts clearly indicate that our organization could do a lot better in terms of our approach to the marine environment.

Regards
Steve Walker(FWIW, PhD Marine Biology)

At least the inscrutable Bantin has generated some controversy and attracted attention to this vital issue. You have to remember that behind the Bantin love of controversy there can be constructive undercurrents. Ah to be so thick-skinned...

Jeremy.

[Steve Walker]

At least the inscrutable Bantin has generated some controversy and attracted attention to this vital issue. You have to remember that behind the Bantin love of controversy there can be constructive undercurrents. Ah to be so thick-skinned...

Jeremy.

TBH Jermey, What I know about John could be written on the back of a postage stamp: diving journo, occasional poster here -usually dishing out admonishments on spelling, grammar and composition, and now apparently no empathy for the other animals with which we share this planet.
Regards

[John Bantin]

Hundreds of millions of Chinese people want to eat sharkfin soup.

It is no good protesting about this while helping them to afford it.

Wearing neoprene or silicone products made in China (as most is) or Nike trainers (one simple example) helps the Chinese industry to get richer and employ more people.

Goodbye sharks.

Divers actively help the destruction of the world?s shark population in this way.

Sorry.

[Steve Walker]

Hundreds of millions of Chinese people want to eat sharkfin soup.

It is no good protesting about this while helping them to afford it.

Wearing neoprene or silicone products made in China (as most is) or Nike trainers (one simple example) helps the Chinese industry to get richer and employ more people.

Goodbye sharks.

Divers actively help the destruction of the world?s shark population in this way.

Sorry.

And just how many parts of the computer you typed that on were made in China? Does that make the situation better or worse?

Assuming that your statement above is accurate, unlike your knowledge of shark behaviour, it seems as if you think efforts to protect endangered animals are a waste of time?
Fortunately there are others who disagree, even some notable Chinese folk are prepared to make an effort to change the current practices, e.g. Jackie Chan campaigns against the use of endangered animals in traditional Chinese Medicine.

I'm starting to think Jeremy was right when he suggested you have a penchant for pointless controversy.
Again I say, as one of the supposedly omnipotent press, you could doing something to support the efforts of Jeremy et al, rather than knocking them for trying to be part of the solution.

Regards

[John Bantin]

I am not knocking Jeremy or The Shark Trust.
I am knocking us. Yes, that is right. You and Me.
We pay lip service to conservation and ecological matters while being fully paid-up members of the same industrialised society which we criticise.
The extinction of many wild animals, including sharks, is a direct result of the success of our industrialisation.
However, solutions to such complex problems are difficult to find. Pol Pot did not find one.

[Steve Walker]

I am not knocking Jeremy or The Shark Trust.
Really? Do you think Jeremy realises this?

However, solutions to such complex problems are difficult to find.

Wasn't it Homer Simpson who said "If its too hard it's not worth doing" ? Just as well Colin Pillinger didn't have a forum like this for the Beagle 2 project.


Pol Pot did not find one.

Eh? Get me a pint of what you've had John, sounds like good stuff.

Regards

[Jeremy Stafford-Deitsch]

:= I am not knocking Jeremy or The Shark Trust.
Really? Do you think Jeremy realises this?

:=However, solutions to such complex problems are difficult to find.

Wasn't it Homer Simpson who said "If its too hard it's not worth doing" ? Just as well Colin Pillinger didn't have a forum like this for the Beagle 2 project.


:= Pol Pot did not find one.

Eh? Get me a pint of what you've had John, sounds like good stuff.

Regards



There is no chance of getting an absolute ban on shark finning. But commercial fishermen do not like catching many species of shark. They are big and heavy and the carcass takes up a great deal of hold space while the fins are commercially valuable. Finners slice off the fins and store them in any and every corner of the boat because they don't need to be refrigerated. The hold can then be used for more valuable fishes. By insisting that the fins and bodies correspond you can reduce the incentive to catch sharks.
This is the first step in a very difficult battle. Are we going to succeed in taking it?

Anyone who doubts that there is an international ecological crisis looming have a look at:

<a href="http://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A2=ind0306&L=shark-l&F=&S=&P=6595" >http://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A2=ind0306&L=shark-l&F=&S=&P=6595</a>

www.tortugamarina.org

Remember: EU commercial fleets are major finners (with Spain at the top of the list).


Jeremy.

[Jeremy Stafford-Deitsch]

:= I am not knocking Jeremy or The Shark Trust.
Really? Do you think Jeremy realises this?

:=However, solutions to such complex problems are difficult to find.

Wasn't it Homer Simpson who said "If its too hard it's not worth doing" ? Just as well Colin Pillinger didn't have a forum like this for the Beagle 2 project.


:= Pol Pot did not find one.

Eh? Get me a pint of what you've had John, sounds like good stuff.

Regards



There is no chance of getting an absolute ban on shark finning. But commercial fishermen do not like catching many species of shark. They are big and heavy and the carcass takes up a great deal of hold space while the fins are commercially valuable. Finners slice off the fins and store them in any and every corner of the boat because they don't need to be refrigerated. The hold can then be used for more valuable fishes. By insisting that the fins and bodies correspond you can reduce the incentive to catch sharks.
This is the first step in a very difficult battle. Are we going to succeed in taking it?

Anyone who doubts that there is an international ecological crisis looming have a look at:

<a href="http://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A2=ind0306&L=shark-l&F=&S=&P=6595" >http://raven.utc.edu/cgi-bin/WA.EXE?A2=ind0306&L=shark-l&F=&S=&P=6595</a>

www.tortugamarina.org

Remember: EU commercial fleets are major finners (with Spain at the top of the list).


Jeremy.

[John Bantin]

Hand revealed!
Useful link!