Beginner Advice Please

[joben1]

I am a complete beginner and need to buy the kit. Any advice on good on-line scuba diving retailers will be much appreciated.

[Nigel Hewitt]

I am a complete beginner and need to buy the kit. Any advice on good on-line scuba diving retailers will be much appreciated.
Local instructors are probably your best resource on that.
Most online operators are OK(ish) provided you stick to reputable brands.

Are you hooked into a BSAC branch or are you buying training? Obviously the advice on who to talk to is different between the two.

[joben1]

I will be buying. My mate is fairly experienced so he will be able to help me.

Would still appreciate info on good on-line stores.

[Nick Snip]

These may help?

http://www.deepbluedive.com/
http://www.kentdiving.com/default.asp?
http://www.simplyscuba.com/

Although I would recommend trying equipment, maybe borrowing in the pool before buying of the net (If possible). I think most of us have made the usual mistake of impulse buying, then realising that infact it doesn't meet our requirements, or we would prefer a slightly different set up, which can be an expensive mistake.

[joben1]

Thanks for the great advice :)

[Roz]

I will be buying.

I am absolutely delighted to hear that you are thinking of buying some diving equipment. It’s a researched and documented fact that if you own your own kit, you will go diving more regularly than if you haven’t got anything. That said, I think you will find many others who post on here, including me, who would suggest that you don’t go on a mad spending spree yet.

I would certainly advocate that as a new diver you get the core kit of mask, fins, snorkel, boots and a timing device. This would mean that you have your basic snorkelling kit which will last you from now until kingdom come, provided you look after it carefully. It also means that when you start learning you have the basics which will be fine for pool work.

My mate is fairly experienced so he will be able to help me.

Great, I am pleased to hear that you have an experienced mate who has taken you under his wing. The one thing that I would say is that staff in dive centres have exposure to a large range of equipment from a number of manufacturers. They go on product days and launches, they get given the odd sample to play with, and it’s all so that they can understand the product better. They are out there using the kit in anger, and diving it on a very regular basis. Therefore they are more experienced than your average amateur diver and will give you good solid equipment advice.

Would still appreciate info on good on-line stores.

Please, don’t go there. If I have posted this once, I have posted this a 100 times. Dive Centre owners and staff are in it for the long term, not a quick sale where they will never see the diver again. I have spent a long time with people looking to buy equipment, who have picked my brains, tried on stuff and gone away having purchased nothing. Who have then returned a number of months later and said "thanks for your help last time, please I could so with some advice about xyz" and then gone onto buy something. Joe Public diver seems to forget that that Dive Centre staff are divers. We remember the excitement of buying our first regulator or thrill of ordering our first drysuit.

If you shop in a LDS (Local Dive Store), you get to feel, touch, try on and look at the equipment for real. The staff should walk you around the shop and show you the difference between a pool fin, a boat fin, a nature's wing fin, a spring strap, a traditional fin strap and a quick release strap (such as Mares). Nothing can replace the opportunity of feeling, touching, smelling, lifting and trying on new, up-to-date equipment. You just don’t get that shopping on the web.

But before you go seriously shopping for your main equipment, ie bcd, reg, suit, etc embrace the advantage of being a member of a local dive club. It will allow you to access kit (Members own and Club) so that you can get to play, try and experiment with lots of different pieces of equipment. Great! I advocate this path and would recommend any diver to do this if the opportunity presents itself. And if you’ve gone down the commercial route, then no problem, as a number of dive centres also operate this policy where they can.

If you buy via the web, you might get a more competitive price. Great, short term gain. But you will lose long term. Now more than ever you do need to support your LDS. I know of another two dive centres that have gone down in the last 8 weeks. The blood letting continues. So equipment sales help pay for rates, electricity, staff costs etc, and if you end up spending a tad more now on kit, it will mean that in the future you won't be doing 100 mile round trips to get cylinder fills and your regs serviced. And you will be looked after by like-minded divers who generally are huge kit monsters who still get a thrill out of playing with shiny things.

[joben1]

That's great advice. Thank you so much :)

Can't wait to get started.

[Kieran]

First buy your drysuit if you're doing U.K. diving.
As for the timing device there are three distinct options buy a waterproof light up digital watch for £7 form argos, a depth timer with the bonus of a depth/max depth gauge or ge a computer.
I'd recomend that you stump for a basic computer like an apeks quantum or suunto geko.


Regs and BCDs/Wings are much of a muchness and I'd advise spending extra cash on a comfortable, well fitting drysuit and gloves/hood before going and buying some expensive regs.
Apeks xt40 are a good choice and will last forever and if they don't apeks have fantastic customer service.
Scubapro regs are also good value.
A BCD is a bag of air essentially so it isn't really a problem to skimp here, better to spend money on important things and get a better bcd as funds allow.

Just my two pence worth, I'm by no means as experienced as 95% of other people on the forums.

Most importantly get out diving with any equipment you can borrow and see what you like!

[Monster07]

Dont make the mistake i did,

I did try dive and the next day down the bank i went got a loan for 1500 GB pounds went to the nearest Dive store and brought some good Kit, however in hindsight although the kit is good, the BCD i brought was no good for the diving and kit config i now use, in that the HUB is unsable for a Twinsetup ( i found anyway, there may be people who disagree with that, but i brought the HUB when it first came out MARES, and due to the back plate it is configured for single Cylinder) my advice would be to use CLUB kitt first and when you Qualifie get a feel for the type of diving you feel you want to do and the level you want to achieve look at all the kit configs your buddies/club divers use and get there advice before going on a buying extraviganza.

I now dive using Twinset Nitrox cleaned usiing a Buddy BCD and Buddy Wing as back up Bouyancy (also drysuit) so in effect i dive using the Drysuit as my main bouyancy but if i got into difficulty with that i have 2 BCD back ups ...

may not work for everyone but it works for me, and i now that what ever situation i get into i can get to the surface, which in my eyes is the main priority if you get in to difficulties, as when under water you cant do any thing but once on the surface you can do what is required.

Just my 10 pence worth but as mentioned i am not as experienced as a lot more people out there.

[ChristianG]

Very well said Roz. :)

I might add that you will not have a clue, for quite some time in fact, where your particular interest/s are going to lie and these will have a bearing on your equipment, sometimes a direct bearing. As well, there are some who once they start absolutely hate the whole idea and drop out, nothing wrong with that, it happens sometimes but if you buy equipment even before you actually become a diver understand that this can happen.

E Bay is littered with the discarded equipment of both these types of divers so don't become another one although you should understand that completely future-proofing your equipment is an impossibility.

[NickBCotswold]

I am absolutely delighted to hear that you are thinking of buying some diving equipment. It’s a researched and documented fact that if you own your own kit, you will go diving more regularly than if you haven’t got anything. That said, I think you will find many others who post on here, including me, who would suggest that you don’t go on a mad spending spree yet.

I would certainly advocate that as a new diver you get the core kit of mask, fins, snorkel, boots and a timing device. This would mean that you have your basic snorkelling kit which will last you from now until kingdom come, provided you look after it carefully. It also means that when you start learning you have the basics which will be fine for pool work.



Great, I am pleased to hear that you have an experienced mate who has taken you under his wing. The one thing that I would say is that staff in dive centres have exposure to a large range of equipment from a number of manufacturers. They go on product days and launches, they get given the odd sample to play with, and it’s all so that they can understand the product better. They are out there using the kit in anger, and diving it on a very regular basis. Therefore they are more experienced than your average amateur diver and will give you good solid equipment advice.



Please, don’t go there. If I have posted this once, I have posted this a 100 times. Dive Centre owners and staff are in it for the long term, not a quick sale where they will never see the diver again. I have spent a long time with people looking to buy equipment, who have picked my brains, tried on stuff and gone away having purchased nothing. Who have then returned a number of months later and said "thanks for your help last time, please I could so with some advice about xyz" and then gone onto buy something. Joe Public diver seems to forget that that Dive Centre staff are divers. We remember the excitement of buying our first regulator or thrill of ordering our first drysuit.

If you shop in a LDS (Local Dive Store), you get to feel, touch, try on and look at the equipment for real. The staff should walk you around the shop and show you the difference between a pool fin, a boat fin, a nature's wing fin, a spring strap, a traditional fin strap and a quick release strap (such as Mares). Nothing can replace the opportunity of feeling, touching, smelling, lifting and trying on new, up-to-date equipment. You just don’t get that shopping on the web.

But before you go seriously shopping for your main equipment, ie bcd, reg, suit, etc embrace the advantage of being a member of a local dive club. It will allow you to access kit (Members own and Club) so that you can get to play, try and experiment with lots of different pieces of equipment. Great! I advocate this path and would recommend any diver to do this if the opportunity presents itself. And if you’ve gone down the commercial route, then no problem, as a number of dive centres also operate this policy where they can.

If you buy via the web, you might get a more competitive price. Great, short term gain. But you will lose long term. Now more than ever you do need to support your LDS. I know of another two dive centres that have gone down in the last 8 weeks. The blood letting continues. So equipment sales help pay for rates, electricity, staff costs etc, and if you end up spending a tad more now on kit, it will mean that in the future you won't be doing 100 mile round trips to get cylinder fills and your regs serviced. And you will be looked after by like-minded divers who generally are huge kit monsters who still get a thrill out of playing with shiny things.


^^^What SHE said!! lol!

100% brillo-pads!

[Richard Whitcombe]

But you will lose long term.

That line i disagree with entirely. Dive shops that adapt their business model to one that consumers actually want will survive. Those the dont, wont.
The internet is here to stay and most people aren't made of money and cant afford to pay 20-30% more for the same bit of kit just to "be nice" to a shop. If the shops cant shift their overpriced kit then don't blame the internet, blame their business model. Either restructure the pricing or diversify into selling items you CAN be competitive with.

[Roz]

Dive shops that adapt their business model to one that consumers actually want will survive. Those the dont, wont.

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. The only, only good thing about the current blood letting is that it will mean the strong, professional dive centres that deliver that extra bit will survive.

The internet is here to stay and most people aren't made of money.....

Agree again totally, which is why you will see in a post I made earlier today about "should I buy these Scubapro regs" I said yes. It looks on paper that they will be a good buy for the new diver. People seem to forget that diving is effectively a luxury sport where you require life support equipment and that costs money.

....and cant afford to pay 20-30% more for the same bit of kit just to "be nice" to a shop......

They are not "being nice" to a shop. They are gaining information and education, and benefiting from the shop's experience and the ability to look at, feel and try on different equipment. They are also purchasing at the suggested retail price, instead of the trade price.

And before you say that suggested retail prices are a rip off/over priced/imoral/et al every company trading needs to have a suggested retail price and a trade price. When you eat in a restaurant you are paying the suggested retail price. It doesn't cost £55 for a pizza, a large bottle of sparking mineral water, two bottles of beer and a dish of Canneloni. The trade price would probably work out at £20 max to make. You are therefore paying for the chef's expertise, the ambience of the restaurant, the staff who serve you, the heating, lighting, cleaning of linen, etc.

ALL DIVING COMPANIES HAVE TO MAKE A PROFIT, otherwise they will go out of business. One revenue stream is equipment. You are charged a fair price for equipment. By demanding cheaper equipment you will get cheaper equipment. There have been comments on threads here about cheap weight belts falling to bits. I know of one mask that was lovely. It fitted 95% of all faces. It was low profile and looked great. Because the public demanded a cheaper mask, production was switched to another factory, and now this product is inferior. Sales have dropped right off. The silicone used is nasty, cheap and hard, and the frames crack. By demanding cheaper kit the product has been destroyed.

If the shops cant shift their overpriced kit then don't blame the internet, blame their business model.

Which bit of "its not overpriced" do you not understand. My first snorkel cost me £25 17 years ago. The equivalent today costs about £15. So it's £10 cheaper almost two decades later....... Diving equipment is priced sensibly. If you want to look at overpriced kit, take up skiing!

Either restructure the pricing or diversify into selling items you CAN be competitive with.

The pricing effectively has been restructured so there is very little profit in selling diving equipment. In the long run we will be losers because there will be less money available for research and development, we will have to drive further for air fills and equipment servicing and what equipment we do own will fall to bits far sooner because it's manufactured from inferior materials.

[Richard Whitcombe]

They are not "being nice" to a shop. They are gaining information and education, and benefiting from the shop's experience and the ability to look at, feel and try on different equipment.

Or as is the case with lots of dive shops, being exposed to 1 brand only (as thats what the shop stocks) and thats it. If someone has researched around, asked other people, maybe even borrowed regs i still cant see why they'd want to pay 1/3 more for someone else to tell them what they've already decided.
Some items do require fitting so then they're at the mercy of a dive shop and could potentially be ripped off. Things like regs dont need that.


They are also purchasing at the suggested retail price, instead of the trade price.

Lets put this at the customers side. I need some dive gear, i have a limited budget in which to buy it. I know what kit i want. What possible benefit is there to me in paying substantially more than i need to in order to get that piece of equipment?

I dont care about ambience or anything else - if ive decided i want something, i know what i want then i just want to get hold of it and as cheaply as possible as im not a charity. Money saved here means i can buy another bit of kit, go diving, go on holiday or pay some bills etc.



ALL DIVING COMPANIES HAVE TO MAKE A PROFIT, otherwise they will go out of business. One revenue stream is equipment. You are charged a fair price for equipment.

If that shop is unable to supply equipment at a price people can afford then that shops business model is wrong and they need to change it. Stop supplying overpriced kit and hoping people will buy it out of the kindness of their heart and start stocking other items. Smaller items that people need and may buy on impulse rather than the expensive flagship items.
The need to make a profit doesnt automatically mean that you must buy from a shop. Internet retailers need to make a profit too. Diving is no different to any other business - if your current model isnt working you need to change that model or die.

By demanding cheaper kit you dont necessarily get lower quality kit. Its more a case of people know what kit they want then want to source THAT bit of kit from somewhere as cheaply as possible.





Which bit of "its not overpriced" do you not understand.

Overpriced simply because you can nearly always find the same equipment cheaper on the internet than in a shop. That £15 snorkel may cost £10 online. By the time you get to regs and BCDs quite often the exact same item can be 20-30% cheaper online than in a shop. That to me means the shop is selling the kit overpriced and you shouldn't buy from them.

Granted there are a few dive shops that have embraced the modern world and lost their arrogance in that they'll competitively price match (or get near) and some of these even have an online side to their business. However i see far more that refuse to do any of that and just whine about being undercut.

[ChristianG]

Or as is the case with lots of dive shops, being exposed to 1 brand only (as thats what the shop stocks) and thats it. If someone has researched around, asked other people, maybe even borrowed regs i still cant see why they'd want to pay 1/3 more for someone else to tell them what they've already decided.
Some items do require fitting so then they're at the mercy of a dive shop and could potentially be ripped off. Things like regs dont need that.
I'm only singling Richard's post out because it's the last one.

Boys and girls, the post is being hijacked. More importantly it's telling the original inquirer nothing at all now.

The whole point is to tell a newbie (there - I've said it ;)) what that newbie (and again :eek:) should do. Your type of contretemps is not going to help, especially for our new diver.

We, as in you two and I, are not important here, what's imporrtant is giving the OP clear, factual information. They'll learn soon enough that it's all largely based on Bullshlt - well, not actually but separating the chaff from the wheat is actually critically important. As always on this tiny world of ours. :)

[bigjo]

Very well said Roz. :)

E Bay is littered with the discarded equipment of both these types of divers .

And you'd be looking at the dive section of ebay for any particular reason???:D :D

[bigjo]

They are gaining information and education, and benefiting from the shop's experience and the ability to look at, feel and try on different equipment. .

You have also suggested that they will get much of the same benefit from club membership. Once they have this they can then go out and buy from the cheapest source

[Alan White]

Joben1

The best advice posted thus far is from Roz,
buying kit is a very good thing, you will dive more if you own your kit.

The very real danger is you go spend mad on one kit makers kit or based on a friends own kit choice,
we are all individual and one wo/mans kit will not work well for another diver.

Try other peoples kit, control the spending this season, or else you will be likelly to spend twice.....I did this when I started diving and the only original kit that remains is my mask, fins and drysuit.

Buy reasonable kit, find an LDS that you are happy with and establish a relationship, you cannot do this with an online seller as easily if at all.
Most LDS will move on price a bit so the saving sfrom online are not as good as they first look and you need to factor in postal charges as well.

Do beware e-Bay as fake items are sold here by some sellers, I know this from experience as well and ended up wasting £15 and then buying it from the LDS anyway!

Enjoy buying the kit, its a great moment and then enjoy your diving, don't fuss about the kit, because its a means to an end not the focus of the hobby, unless you get the techno bug and start dressing in all black and looking like a member of the SBS or Seals!

Please forgive any typos or spelling errors as I am not functioning correctly this morning :)

[NickBCotswold]

You have also suggested that they will get much of the same benefit from club membership. Once they have this they can then go out and buy from the cheapest source

to clarify MHO on this, i think theres a place for both LDS (local dive shop) AND internet suppliers - most LDS's have webpages and are able to sell over the web anyway!

I think the main point is that there is just some "personal equipment" that you just cant take the chance with of "buying blind" over the net -- such as BC, dry suit, under suit - anything that essentially needs to fit! You also cant buy "gas" over the internet - so LDS's are essential for us land lubbers if we want to continue to train in the pool each week without driving miles to the coast to get re-fills!

accessories such as clips, widgets, lanyards, dangly bits, shiney bits i tend to buy online as they ARE somewhat cheaper - plus it saves me an hour long trip to go spend a fiver on a clip!

however, i AM concious of the fact my LDS needs my support - and as i need THEM i'm keen to support them as much as i can afford to!

Nick B

[Maria CM]

.... plus it saves me an hour long trip to go spend a fiver on a clip!

however, i AM concious of the fact my LDS needs my support - and as i need THEM i'm keen to support them as much as i can afford to!

Nick B

I am very much in agreement with you Nick. It may be a case of ordering something for £10 plus postage which would take 1.5 hours of time, horrible amounts of diesel, cost both the environment, and me to get from a LDS as opposed to an internet supplier.

I do buy from a LDS as much as I can reasonably but you have to weigh up the cost/benefit (and I don't necessarily mean money).

best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

Hi there,

OPTION 1

Main priority is have a well-fitting mask which you need to go into a shop for.

Next get some dives under your belt in different places so you start to get a feel for where you diving interests lie (warm water, cold water., wreck, cave, reef, tech etc etc).

Buy a basic dive computer.

Keep borrowing kit of different types as long as you can. The trouble with scuba gear is there is always something you have failed to take into account when purchasing your chosen item, they are constantly upgraded with new features and technology, and it is really hard to know what you really want/need until you've been diving a while.

OPTION 2
Of course, if you have loads of money and storage space, just buy things as you fancy them and upgrade or change them as you fancy.

I know which option I'd rather go for:D

best wishes,

Maria

[ChristianG]

OK, there are things that, as a beginner (qualified) diver that you need and there are things that you'd like to have.

NEED:

1) A mask that fits your face - you can't buy that over the Internet because you want the one, exactly that one, that fits your face in the shop, with a regulator in your gob because it distorts your face. No, you don't want the exact same model in a box, you want the one on your face! All that with due acknowledgement to Nigel H who said it all before I did.
2) Planning to dive in the UK? You need a dry suit because (a) rented dry suits are not easy to find, (b) they are size dependent and (c) they keep you warm so you are likely to dive more often. If you're going to splurge on anything, splurge on a dry suit.

LIKE TO HAVE (in order of preference, these things can mostly be rented or borrowed and you should because that gives you experience of different products - keep notes, otherwise it will become a jumble in your mind):

1) Fins, use lots of different ones, they're easy to borrow/hire to come up with what suits you. Don't even think about buying a pair until you've learnt how to properly use them, the bicycle kick is not a good look.
2) Regulators. Try out lots. The bias on these Forums is heavily towards Apeks and there's nowt wrong with that, especially for UK waters. I don't dive UK waters (and never will, too bluddy cold) but my regs are rather different to the Apeks style because I'm a photographer and get into all sorts of convoluted shapes to get the shot. So I use side exhaust regs which have no "upside down" - unlike Apeks and most other more conventional regs.
4) Buoyancy Control Device (BCD). The bias on these Forums is heavily towards Buddy BCDs which are tough as nails, reasonably priced and the service that you get is legendary. Can't fault them. There's the "conventional" type roughly as they were first invented which the vast majority of divers wear if only because that's what they first used and then there's the "wing" type. Wings are regarded as "technical" if only because they were invented for "technical diving". That thought process is rubbish, learning on a wing is no different to learning on a BCD but newcomers buy BCDs because that's what they learnt on.
3) Tank - either a 12 or 15 litre.

Just my opinion, there are lots of others. :)

[ChristianG]

I forgot:

2A) Computer, something nice and simple like a Suunto Gekko (http://www.suunto.com/suunto/main/product_short.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=101341986739 39579) is perfectly adequate until you get to know what kind of diving is going to interest you when you can sell it (if it's then inadequate) for pretty much the money you bought it for. It's an electronic instrument and I'm not (despite being a photographer) keen on electronics underwater. The Uwatec BT (http://www.scubapro.com/europe/uk/uwatec-products/instruments/instruments/digital-log-330m) is the best, and cheap, "get-out-of-jail" Bottom Timer ever made and is hopefully likely to remain so, it's also fully automatic, thus as failsafe as electronic gizmos underwater are likely to get. Wear one of each on each wrist and if both cark it at the same time consider that you're having a particularly bad day.

Edit/: Before getting that computer and BT, get to know your tables really, as in REALLY, well. Solely relying on a computer could well be bad for your health if it does die. :\Edit