Free Flow, Apexs, ATX 200.

[CW]

I know it's not impossible but after parting with a considerable amount of dosh for the regs that "will not free flow" i find my self at 10mtrs with a slight problem.
The water temp was between 4-6 and bingo, free flow!
This was only my second dive (inland) with these regs.
Has anyone else experienced free flow problems with the ATX or can anyone advise on the possible problem why???? or have i just been sucked into a myth that these regs will not free flow!

[Steve Walker]

I know it's not impossible but after parting with a considerable amount of dosh for the regs that "will not free flow" i find my self at 10mtrs with a slight problem.
The water temp was between 4-6 and bingo, free flow!
This was only my second dive (inland) with these regs.
Has anyone else experienced free flow problems with the ATX or can anyone advise on the possible problem why???? or have i just been sucked into a myth that these regs will not free flow!

I know someone that had a similar problem, not sure if it was the 200 or another apeks model but apparently, IIRC, it was something to do with a change in the material used to manufacture the diaphragm, think it got sorted out eventually, I'll see if I can get the diver in question to post here about (he's not a bsac diver)
Regards

[AQUABIN]

I dont know about these regs, but many regs that are supposedly designed not to free flow can be induced to do so. Without wishing to patronise you do know that there are several reasons why a reg will free-flow. I am sure you are aware its the drop in pressure that causes the problem in the 1st stage, causing it to freeze up.
My understanding is the following are not good practices,
1) letting the tanks get cold overnight and creating condensation in the compressed air that will freeze in the reg.
2) Heavy testing of the regs on the surface, difficult because we all want to make sure they are working before plunging, but as a rule I inflate my BCD orally. I give a small squirt into the dry-suit some considerable time before the drop-in, gives the reg time to warm up again.
3) Try to breathe as lightly as possible until under the water by a few metres, surface water tends to be very cold.
4) Buddy hanging off the Occy, or the Occy free flowing when entering the water causing huge demand on the 1st stage.
5) Air quality from the compressor also has an effect if not dry.

Inland does tend to cause this more often than in the Sea as Sea water freezes at a lower temp than fresh water.
Sorry if this is teaching Granny to suck eggs.
HTH
Matt

[Rich]

I know it's not impossible but after parting with a considerable amount of dosh for the regs that "will not free flow" i find my self at 10mtrs with a slight problem.
The water temp was between 4-6 and bingo, free flow!
This was only my second dive (inland) with these regs.
Has anyone else experienced free flow problems with the ATX or can anyone advise on the possible problem why???? or have i just been sucked into a myth that these regs will not free flow!

I own the same regs but have had no such problem, the coldest water in which I have used them is 4c (fresh). With the ATX200 there is an adjustment on the side, not the silver resistance knob but a lever with + and -. Use the - setting and you should be OK. However a free flow will not be cured by changing it to minus setting, only by shutting-off, then opening the main air knob will cure that, tricky at depth I know, but hope this info help either way.

regards,
Rich.

[andy lewin]

I know it's not impossible but after parting with a considerable amount of dosh for the regs that "will not free flow" i find my self at 10mtrs with a slight problem.
The water temp was between 4-6 and bingo, free flow!
This was only my second dive (inland) with these regs.
Has anyone else experienced free flow problems with the ATX or can anyone advise on the possible problem why???? or have i just been sucked into a myth that these regs will not free flow!

Ah someone else,

picture this, 2 divers with twin 10's 300 bar, TX100's on each cylinder. At 42m my buddie's main reg free flowed, he isolated and we started the assent. 35m AAS free flowed I isolated and he took my AAS. All good and then, yes you guessed it, 25m and my AAS free flowed, we carried on the assent and surfaced well with 70bar.

I spoke with Apexs servicing direct as my TX100's had been serviced 2 days previously by an independant retailer. I hasten to add the reatiler is not thought to be at fault. Without going into the specifics, Apexs believe it may have been a 1st stage creep and are interested in investigating this, however all the rigs are on there way to Apexs for a check-over.

I must add, I have carried out 300-320 dives with these rigs and this is the first incident I have experienced.

[Driftwood]

Gee, another forum for me to invade - your fault Stevie W...

Matt,

Not quite me'ol mucker

"many regs that are supposedly designed not to free flow"

ALL regs are designed to freeflow in so far as a first stage icing of the valve seat in the open position would cause a substantially worse problem if the downstream (2nd stage) valve didn't freeflow - how bad? Hose rupture, stage detonation.....

All you mentioned though do make things more likely. You could include orientation, venturi assist setting, if it's in your gob or not, salt or fresh water (slightly different thermal conductivities)


Getting to the point.

Yes, I've had an ATX200 freeflow following a 30 minute dive off St. Abbs in 5-6 degree sea water. T'was my own fault as the reg was just back from Apeks following a replacement diaphragm being fitted (mine stiffened!) and was cranked right down and full venturi on. Took it out of my mouth so I could blow up my blob orally...

Whoosh!

Emptied about 60bar from a 12l in 10-15 seconds!

Scary. So remember kiddies, practice for problems. To avoid this, keep the reg in your gob and be gentle with it.

[AQUABIN]

Gee, another forum for me to invade - your fault Stevie W...

Matt,

Not quite me'ol mucker

"many regs that are supposedly designed not to free flow"

ALL regs are designed to freeflow in so far as a first stage icing of the valve seat in the open position would cause a substantially worse problem if the downstream (2nd stage) valve didn't freeflow - how bad? Hose rupture, stage detonation.....



OK I agree with that if you're being really pedantic. I meant under 'normal' operating conditions.

Good point about the venturi assist/ in gob situation. I pulled my DX4 Oceanic out do a reg swap at 15m and whoosh! Wondered what the hell it was, my SP4 doesnt do that. Sorted it, problem resolved but a bit scarry none the less.
Good to see you on here.
Matt

[CW]

Thanks everyone for you advise and experience.

CW

[Driftwood]

OK I agree with that if you're being really pedantic. I meant under 'normal' operating conditions.

Yeah well, you know me well enough by now Matt!

Good point about the venturi assist/ in gob situation. I pulled my DX4 Oceanic out do a reg swap at 15m and whoosh!

Another Oceanic that's bad sans gob is the Alpha7 due to the entire front diaphragm cover being the purge. Mine had to be detuned for use as a pony due to the fact that if the front was facing the same was as I was swimming, the pressure against it would start the purge!

Also bad if I land upside down out of the boat with it - bubble heaven!

Cheers Matt

Drifty

[AQUABIN]

:=OK I agree with that if you're being really pedantic. I meant under 'normal' operating conditions.

Yeah well, you know me well enough by now Matt!

:=Good point about the venturi assist/ in gob situation. I pulled my DX4 Oceanic out do a reg swap at 15m and whoosh!

Another Oceanic that's bad sans gob is the Alpha7 due to the entire front diaphragm cover being the purge. Mine had to be detuned for use as a pony due to the fact that if the front was facing the same was as I was swimming, the pressure against it would start the purge!

Not had that happen, but then it has been serviced, so it probably got detuned then by accident. I have just put it on the pony so I'll see how it behaves. I used to run the pony inverted and off with a different reg that used to trickle.

Also bad if I land upside down out of the boat with it - bubble heaven!

True

Matt

[Rob Meddes]

I had a freeflow TYPE problem in that my 1st stage on my ATX200's had been over machined (apparently). It would give a small amount of air constantly & on the inhale would pop. It cost my a dive & some hired regs (after a service centre replaced the HP seal but didn't solve the prob). & was eventually replaced by Apeks & my hire & repair costs refunded.
Good diving
Rob