NEW AI's

[Steve Pearson]

Congratulations to Colin Ross and Ron Evans on passing their AI exam in Cumbrae last weekend.

Well done guys very well deserved.

Steve

[Steve Pearson]

I can't believe that no-one else has had the decency to congratulate two fellow BSAC members on their hard work and achievements.

Is eveyone so full of their own self importance that common courtesy and good manners are beneath them.

says a lot about readers of the forum.

[john williams]

I can't believe that no-one else has had the decency to congratulate two fellow BSAC members on their hard work and achievements.

Is eveyone so full of their own self importance that common courtesy and good manners are beneath them.

says a lot about readers of the forum.

Steve,

I can't beleive that no-one else from that particular course passed - so I assumed that these were two personal friends who you wished to congratulate!

Why did you not seek out the names of all those other successful candidates to congratulate them?
(I have not seen you copy the names as published periodically in DIVE and repeat your congrats here before ...no-one you knew appeared there before? We do have well in excess of 3,000 AIs now you know!)

Was it because you did not know them personnally?

Of course we all applaud and congratulate ALL those that pass diving or instructional assessments - of whatever sort!

All of them require hard work and effort - and all deserve recognition of that fact (and indeed recognition of the hard work that their newfound qualifications will mean they will probably take on for their own branch and for the BSAC in general)

I'll gladly add my congrats! - but for everyone, at all stages of their diving career (not JUST for my mates!)

However - the fact that you expect us to simply shout "Here!, Here!" just because you want to congratulate your friends strikes me as showing an over-inflated sense of self-imporance a little closer to home my friend!

Perhaps a little more tolerance would stand you in good stead?

All the very best

John

[jimbo3013]

Well i would like to congratulate the new AI's also my self for completing the TDI Advance Nitrox Instructor how far shall we take this post ?? so every AI now has to get congratulated or Instructors needs to be congratulated sorry to be so blunt but most people on this dont care who has passed Instructor courses or even divers who has passed SDC's.
Sorry to be so blunt.



:=I can't believe that no-one else has had the decency to congratulate two fellow BSAC members on their hard work and achievements.
:=
:=Is eveyone so full of their own self importance that common courtesy and good manners are beneath them.
:=
:=says a lot about readers of the forum.

Steve,

I can't beleive that no-one else from that particular course passed - so I assumed that these were two personal friends who you wished to congratulate!

Why did you not seek out the names of all those other successful candidates to congratulate them?
(I have not seen you copy the names as published periodically in DIVE and repeat your congrats here before ...no-one you knew appeared there before? We do have well in excess of 3,000 AIs now you know!)

Was it because you did not know them personnally?

Of course we all applaud and congratulate ALL those that pass diving or instructional assessments - of whatever sort!

All of them require hard work and effort - and all deserve recognition of that fact (and indeed recognition of the hard work that their newfound qualifications will mean they will probably take on for their own branch and for the BSAC in general)

I'll gladly add my congrats! - but for everyone, at all stages of their diving career (not JUST for my mates!)

However - the fact that you expect us to simply shout "Here!, Here!" just because you want to congratulate your friends strikes me as showing an over-inflated sense of self-imporance a little closer to home my friend!

Perhaps a little more tolerance would stand you in good stead?

All the very best

John

[nick kay]

I can't believe that no-one else has had the decency to congratulate two fellow BSAC members on their hard work and achievements.

Is eveyone so full of their own self importance that common courtesy and good manners are beneath them.

says a lot about readers of the forum.

Umm - sorry, must agree with John Williams. I don't recall you congratulating me and all the other candidates that passed their AI exams over the past couple of years (and before that), so do I take it you have something personally against all that went before "your" group???

[Steve Pearson]

Umm - sorry, must agree with John Williams. I don't recall you congratulating me and all the other candidates that passed their AI exams over the past couple of years (and before that), so do I take it you have something personally against all that went before "your" group???

This wasn't my group, yes they are two divers I know, and of course I have nothing personally against others that went before Their group...what a pretty anal sort of response.

As someone who goes on several forums and contributes to worthwhile discussions, I have noticed that on other forums, when it's someones birthday or they have made a personal achievement other members whether they know them or not wish them well or congratulate them.

It is also a way of making friends amongst the forums as they may remember who wished them all the best and will be friendly towards fellow members. The other forums are quite active, have a lot of discussion whether it be diving or non-diving, arrange dives together and even social meetings. Is that not what the aims of this forum and its re-vamped version are.

Quite frankly unless people on here lighten up a bit, and don't be so anal with their comments as has been shown in the replies to my thread this forum will die off or stagnate with dinosaurs who are not interested in anything other than their own little world. We need to broaden our outlooks on diving and interaction with other people. It doesn't cost anything to say well done, and so what if you didn't get a mention when you passed your AI, neither did I but I didn't throw my dummy in the corner and think I shouldn't congratulate anyone else. There were only three candidates on that exam all of which passed. I don't know who the third one is but if somebody congratulated him on here as well I would also say well done.

[Steve Pearson]

Well i would like to congratulate the new AI's also my self for completing the TDI Advance Nitrox Instructor how far shall we take this post ?? so every AI now has to get congratulated or Instructors needs to be congratulated sorry to be so blunt but most people on this dont care who has passed Instructor courses or even divers who has passed SDC's.
Sorry to be so blunt.

the fact that you expect us to simply shout "Here!, Here!" just because you want to congratulate your friends strikes me as showing an over-inflated sense of self-imporance a little closer to home my friend!
:=
Obviously divers who are legends in their own minds

[benpanter]

I read your first post and thought, "Fair play, well done lads" having done the exam myself a few years ago. I didn't feel the need to post a follow up, but I had no objection to you congratulating people you knew, but I had no knowledge of. Not something I would do here, but each to their own.

With your second your post you turned a harmless congrats to something a bit uglier. Someone pointed out you might have been being a bit unreasonable. You reacted even more stroppily. Why are you suprised how it ended?

Ben

[Andy Wade]

I read your first post and thought, "Fair play, well done lads" having done the exam myself a few years ago. I didn't feel the need to post a follow up, but I had no objection to you congratulating people you knew, but I had no knowledge of. Not something I would do here, but each to their own.

With your second your post you turned a harmless congrats to something a bit uglier. Someone pointed out you might have been being a bit unreasonable. You reacted even more stroppily. Why are you suprised how it ended?


Yeah, that just about describes what I was thinking too.
I thought "Well done chaps", but didn't feel the need to post. The next bit just left me feeling a bit puzzled.

[Steve Pearson]

Ok Maybe I was a bit harsh on these guys for their unnecessary comments in the first place, however reading through some of the posts in other threads others seem to share my concerns.

"I have to say, I don't even consider these as "diving" forums anymore, just "BSAC" forums. There certainly isn't the friendly feeling from posts here though compared to many others, which is a bit of a shame really." - David

"David, Unfortunately we are not allowed to be friendly, if we try or have a bit of banter your posting gets removed just in case it gives people the wrong impression or at least that was the reason I was given last week, Cheers" - Mark

"Trouble is that sometimes the hot air becomes a healthy release valve. Without it a fora often becomes very dull and grey.

By all means advocate control on the basis of fora etiquette
etc, but go to far and it becomes, well just boring." - TerryH

"When I first started looking at this forum about 6 or 7 years ago it was filled with friendly banter along side valuable and helpful debate

now that the sense of humour has been removed the numbers of participating members has fallen off" MarkA

"Elsewhere seems to be where most of the people who posted on this site have gone"

"We don't exactly get much traffic here and Keith is proposing a large amount of labour for a rather underused facility." - NigelH

Ask yourselves the questions why have so many people said the same things - Numbers have dropped off, postings have dwindled, there is no humour on here. They're right on all the points, though I bet some of the dinosaurs on here will disagree and say "but we like it this way, go somewhere else if you don't" cmon guys you know who you are the BSACaplodopuses I've seen your posts.

Well I say B*ll*Cks it's a BSAC forum, lets get stimulating conversation going and improve our attitudes towards each other. If someone P*sses me off they'll soon know about it because I'll tell them.

Do we really think that divers coming on here for a look at the forum will go because someone is having a disagreement with someone else, do we think that's bad for business. You're joking they'll be pulling up an armchair and getting the popcorn out ready to see the next post in the saga.

Visitors are more likely not to bother coming back if they visit the site over a few days and see that there has been no postings or movement. If they see plenty of activity they'll be on here every day in case they miss something that might be of interest.

To the two guys I broadsided, apologies, and the other ten people who read these forums....lighten up and get posting (joke about the ten I know it's more like fifteen but I had to get a bit of humour in.

Steve

[Ron Evans]

Congratulations to Colin Ross and Ron Evans on passing their AI exam in Cumbrae last weekend.

Well done guys very well deserved.

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for that - but sorry to see that you have caused such a stir with your message.

Ron

[john williams]

:=Congratulations to Colin Ross and Ron Evans on passing their AI exam in Cumbrae last weekend.
:=
:=Well done guys very well deserved.
:=
:=Steve

Steve,

Thanks for that - but sorry to see that you have caused such a stir with your message.

Ron

Ron,

There was no stir caused by Steve's first message - we all thought "Well done!" - but not knowing you personally did not want to single you out from all the other divers we had not given personal congrats to!

What caused the "stir" was Steve's angry and bizarre second post. He tells us to "lighten up" - but does so in such an unenlightened way - we were left amazed and confused.

I would agree with Steve's comments about free speech and playful banter - but his own actions simply don't follow his own theories. All we want him to do is read his own posts and reflect on the impact they may have had on others - and whether or not they acheived the goals he set out for them.

Anyway Ron...well done! Enjoy the doors that AI opens and above all else ...have fun with your diving!

John

[MarkA]

I don't remember you congatulating any others in the past and you certainly did not congratulate me
Where was your decency then ??
over 3000 people have passed the AI and a lot more passed other instructor grades
come to think of it why stop at instructor grades what about diver Qualifications. If you stick by your guns and congratulate every one you are going to be a very busy man

Hi Andy are you still watching me


:=I can't believe that no-one else has had the decency to congratulate two fellow BSAC members on their hard work and achievements.

Is eveyone so full of their own self importance that common courtesy and good manners are beneath them.

says a lot about readers of the forum.

[matts]

Ok Maybe I was a bit harsh on these guys for their unnecessary comments in the first place, however reading through some of the posts in other threads others seem to share my concerns.

Well I am sat right in the middle. I think Keith's moderation style is very fair but perhaps a little tight at times. I also think that too many people misunderstand that having an acceptable level of behaviour and censorship are entirely different things. Keith often enforces the former but I don't ever recall him doing the later. YD on the other hand has a much lower level of acceptable behaviour but frequently censors content.

Ask yourselves the questions why have so many people said the same things - Numbers have dropped off, postings have dwindled, there is no humour on here.

I would admit that the humour is a little more adult than elsewhere. I will also make the point that just because you find something funny does not mean every one will. I find it highly amusing that YD has allowed an inoffensive word to be banned entirely from use. YDs DIR forum moderator appears to disagree with me ;-)

One of the things that annoys me most about DNet is that so many of the threads become private jokes that soon push any worthwhile content off the front page. Now I don't mind a bit of puerile humour now and again but I like a bit of serious discussion too.

They're right on all the points, though I bet some of the dinosaurs on here will disagree and say "but we like it this way, go somewhere else if you don't" cmon guys you know who you are the BSACaplodopuses I've seen your posts.

Just keep in mind what those BSACaplodopuses have managed to achieve in last 50 years. Given that the _vast_ majority of UK divers come and go within 3 years, personally I think those that have remained in the sport longer than I have been alive deserve a little respect whether I agree with them or not.

Well I say B*ll*Cks it's a BSAC forum, lets get stimulating conversation going and improve our attitudes towards each other. If someone P*sses me off they'll soon know about it because I'll tell them.

Looks like you are contradicting yourself there!

Do we really think that divers coming on here for a look at the forum will go because someone is having a disagreement with someone else, do we think that's bad for business.
You're joking they'll be pulling up an armchair and getting the popcorn out ready to see the next post in the saga.

When the argument descends to profanity and personal insult, or private jokes that make sense only to the clique, yes I think it is bad for business. When volunteer members of BSAC, that do a damn site more than just posting on the internet, get openly criticised it's very bad for business. Unfortunately people don't always consider that there are real people involved. Too much unthinking criticism of those people causes them upset and before you know it no one is willing to help for fear of undue criticism. It happens in branches and it happens Nationally but on a MUCH bigger scale.

The moderation challenge is considerable. YD has a more liberal attitude, but at the same time it has (and needs) a more aggressive moderation style. I really can't see Keith getting away with the MRT style of put up, shut up, or I'll send the boys around ;-) I have to be a little bit more careful how I phrase things on the BSAC forums. The shame of that is that there have been some quality BSAC discussions on YD which would have been better discussed here. Presumably the posters feel more relaxed on YD and more willing to articulate their opinions as a result.

Visitors are more likely not to bother coming back if they visit the site over a few days and see that there has been no postings or movement. If they see plenty of activity they'll be on here every day in case they miss something that might be of interest.

Sort of. YD has lots of traffic and I don't mind trawling it when I have the time. The forums here have far less noise and I check them most days.

[Nigel Hewitt]

When the argument descends to profanity and personal insult, or private jokes that make sense only to the clique, yes I think it is bad for business. When volunteer members of BSAC, that do a damn site more than just posting on the internet, get openly criticised it's very bad for business.

I'd rather like somewhere to discuss diving. If I want jokes there are far better places to go on the web as most divers can't write a coherent sentence. Cut-and-paste OT jokes are a waste of my bandwidth.

A perceptive joke on a diving subject is good. Magic if it is mid thread and on topic.

YD has lots of traffic and I don't mind trawling it when I have the time. The forums here have far less noise and I check them most days.

I admit to reading YD via 'New Posts' and ignoring 70% based on the thread title alone.

I don't do robust argument. Robust is what people try to use on me when they can't weasel out of the facts.

And as to robust language... I have never hired anybody who used the F word in an interview. I might be offended, I might not but I have no respect for anybody who is not in control of their tongue. You can tell I'm mad when I get very cold and very polite.

[Angelfish]

Im not surprised numbers are dropping on the Forum with silly posts to read as those above.Yawn.

So what if Steve congratulated friends on their achievement via the forum.

Get a grip.

S

[matts]

So what if Steve congratulated friends on their achievement via the forum.

I don't think that was the issue.

Flaming everyone for not congratulating people that most don't even know are reading the thread, well it was an over-reaction which he has since conceded.

I feel I should congratulate those that failed the AI Exam! I don't seem to be able to find an AIC within 100 miles on a date I could possibly attend (I may not have looked too hard though). Getting to the exam shows commitment in itself.

Time for a group hug perhaps.
Well done everyone, let us marvel in our achievements, whatever they are!

:-)

[atty17]

:=So what if Steve congratulated friends on their achievement via the forum.

I don't think that was the issue.

Flaming everyone for not congratulating people that most don't even know are reading the thread, well it was an over-reaction which he has since conceded.

I feel I should congratulate those that failed the AI Exam! I don't seem to be able to find an AIC within 100 miles on a date I could possibly attend (I may not have looked too hard though). Getting to the exam shows commitment in itself.

Time for a group hug perhaps.
Well done everyone, let us marvel in our achievements, whatever they are!

:-)



I would like also to congratulate all who passed their exam, and also my mum and dad who without them i woulkd not be here today,
bill gates for the means of delivering this message.
keith for allowing this thread to be posted
and everyone else who knows me well done and safe diving
lots of love and lighten up a little
Phill

[Nigel Hewitt]

I would like also to congratulate all who passed their exam, and also my mum and dad who without them i woulkd not be here today,
bill gates for the means of delivering this message.
keith for allowing this thread to be posted
and everyone else who knows me well done and safe diving
lots of love and lighten up a little

Note to KeithL
All a 'Congratulations' forum to the new system when you roll it out.

[Andy Wade]

:=I would like also to congratulate all who passed their exam, and also my mum and dad who without them i woulkd not be here today,
:= bill gates for the means of delivering this message.
:= keith for allowing this thread to be posted
:=and everyone else who knows me well done and safe diving
:=lots of love and lighten up a little

Note to KeithL
All a 'Congratulations' forum to the new system when you roll it out.

Well that's not such a daft idea...
I'm a bit diappointed that the BSAC web site doesn't at least have the results included somewhere. They used to publish the exam results in the old NDC Bulletin.
Maybe they should be included in BSAC Talk?
The 5 new NI's are in the Sept 2005 edition, are there any plans to include successful OWI's, AI's and FCD's ?


.

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Well that's not such a daft idea...
I'm a bit diappointed that the BSAC web site doesn't at least have the results included somewhere. They used to publish the exam results in the old NDC Bulletin.

...and they are now published in the new NDC ebulletin! Have a look on <a href="http://www.bsac.org/techserv/ndcbull44.pdf" >http://www.bsac.org/techserv/ndcbull44.pdf</a> you will find them all there.

Keith L

[Andy Wade]

:=Well that's not such a daft idea...
:=I'm a bit diappointed that the BSAC web site doesn't at least have the results included somewhere. They used to publish the exam results in the old NDC Bulletin.

...and they are now published in the new NDC ebulletin! Have a look on <a href="http://www.bsac.org/techserv/ndcbull44.pdf" >http://www.bsac.org/techserv/ndcbull44.pdf</a> you will find them all there.


Many thanks Keith, That's great.


.

[MarkA]

:=:=So what if Steve congratulated friends on their achievement via the forum.
:=
:=I don't think that was the issue.
:=
:=Flaming everyone for not congratulating people that most don't even know are reading the thread, well it was an over-reaction which he has since conceded.
:=
:=I feel I should congratulate those that failed the AI Exam! I don't seem to be able to find an AIC within 100 miles on a date I could possibly attend (I may not have looked too hard though). Getting to the exam shows commitment in itself.
:=
:=Time for a group hug perhaps.
:=Well done everyone, let us marvel in our achievements, whatever they are!
:=
:=:-)
:=
:=
:=
I would like also to congratulate all who passed their exam, and also my mum and dad who without them i woulkd not be here today,
bill gates for the means of delivering this message.
keith for allowing this thread to be posted
and everyone else who knows me well done and safe diving
lots of love and lighten up a little
Phill

Phill
Be careful !!!!
this thread is bordering on the light hearted and may be removed at any minute

Hi Andy

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Well I am sat right in the middle. I think Keith's moderation style is very fair but perhaps a little tight at times. I also think that too many people misunderstand that having an acceptable level of behaviour and censorship are entirely different things. Keith often enforces the former but I don't ever recall him doing the later. YD on the other hand has a much lower level of acceptable behaviour but frequently censors content.

Here's an interesting case-in-point <a href="http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=26543" >http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=26543</a>

What happened? An entire thread was pulled, no explanation, no notes - just pulled. Now I am in full support of the YD moderators here, I may not agree with the method (I only ever remove the offending parts, I always say why) but I fully support their right to moderate. Divernet do exactly the same thing - they pull entire threads without saying a word.

That's the REALITY of running forums. Unless you're running some anonymous troll haven on a free account somewhere then moderation will always be needed at some point. People had better get used to that fact, it is not going to change on the BSAC forums. I do try to operate a fair policy, I'm open about it, on the occasions where I make a mistake I will apologise for it. But moderation stays.

I'm more than open to suggestions and comments about the moderation style, but I can promise you that you will never get 100% agreement with everybody :-) What I will not even discuss is "censorship", that's just an emotive word banded about by people who bang on about "free speech" (as long as THEY don't have to pay for it or take responsibility for it that is!) because they feel they should be able to do anything they like. They can - but they are not going to do it on these forums!

So - exactly the same rules as there's always been :-)

Keith L

[Andy Wade]

:=Well I am sat right in the middle. I think Keith's moderation style is very fair but perhaps a little tight at times. I also think that too many people misunderstand that having an acceptable level of behaviour and censorship are entirely different things. Keith often enforces the former but I don't ever recall him doing the later. YD on the other hand has a much lower level of acceptable behaviour but frequently censors content.

Here's an interesting case-in-point <a href="http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=26543" >http://www.yorkshire-divers.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=26543</a>

What happened? An entire thread was pulled, no explanation, no notes - just pulled. Now I am in full support of the YD moderators here, I may not agree with the method (I only ever remove the offending parts, I always say why) but I fully support their right to moderate. Divernet do exactly the same thing - they pull entire threads without saying a word.

That's the REALITY of running forums. Unless you're running some anonymous troll haven on a free account somewhere then moderation will always be needed at some point. People had better get used to that fact, it is not going to change on the BSAC forums. I do try to operate a fair policy, I'm open about it, on the occasions where I make a mistake I will apologise for it. But moderation stays.

I'm more than open to suggestions and comments about the moderation style, but I can promise you that you will never get 100% agreement with everybody :-) What I will not even discuss is "censorship", that's just an emotive word banded about by people who bang on about "free speech" (as long as THEY don't have to pay for it or take responsibility for it that is!) because they feel they should be able to do anything they like. They can - but they are not going to do it on these forums!

So - exactly the same rules as there's always been :-)

You'll do for me Keith, as rough as you are...
;-)
I have just one thing to say to all those who want _complete_ freedom of speech on these forums.
Paul Parker.


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