View Full Version : CMAS Cards
Rob Young
22-06-2005, 17:45
Can Some please clear up this ongoing problem that no one seems to 100% sure abut. as a D/L OWI it apears that i am unable to obtain a CMas card for instructor grade, However as this is 2* the same as D/L I don't see the problem, however it now appears that a sports diver can do 20 dives and get a 2* rating, and my 150+ dives and additional knowledge and training over several years appear to align me with a 20 dive sports diver, come on BSAC sort it out, or you could start loosing OWi's to padi.
Nigel Hewitt
22-06-2005, 18:41
Can Some please clear up this ongoing problem that no one seems to 100% sure abut. as a D/L OWI it apears that i am unable to obtain a CMas card for instructor grade, However as this is 2* the same as D/L I don't see the problem, however it now appears that a sports diver can do 20 dives and get a 2* rating, and my 150+ dives and additional knowledge and training over several years appear to align me with a 20 dive sports diver
As far as I understand it there is a world of difference in CMAS terms between a 2* diver and a 2* instructor.
come on BSAC sort it out, or you could start loosing OWi's to padi.
Now that is just being silly.
OK there isn't direct equivalency on the grades but we recognise HSE Closed Bell diver as Sports Diver and they could argue that they have done just a bit more than that but it doesn't have the bits that make up DL.
I am surprised there isn't an easy to find list of reverse SALT. ie: what CMAS grades you get on the site but that might just be me looking in all the wrong places.
Hi Nigel,
There is a vast difference between a CMAS 2 star diver and a CMAS 2 star instructor and so your statement about being equated to a 2 star CMAS diver is incorrect.
The equivalencies that CMAS accept are determined by CMAS and not by BSAC or any other diving association. The Sub Aqua Association (SAA) are currently the UK representatives on CMAS and BSAC has negotiated equivalencies through the SAA, as we are no longer members.
In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
The CMAS 1 Star instructor is of the same level as our previous grade of Club Instructor. CMAS 2 Star Instructors are instructors with the full knowledge base of dive marshalling and planning associated with an Advanced Diver and full scope of instructing skills.
I am sorry you are unable to obtain the 2 Star CMAS Instructor card as a BSAC OWI but it is simply a question that CMAS does not have an equivalent grade.
May I suggest that you use this as a motivator to advance your instructor grade and attend a BSAC AIC and later an AIE. As a BSAC Advanced Diver and BSAC Advanced Instructor you will then be able to obtain the card you are seeking.
Best wishes
Alistair Reynolds
BSAC Technical Manager
Rob Young
23-06-2005, 17:18
Hi Nigel,
There is a vast difference between a CMAS 2 star diver and a CMAS 2 star instructor and so your statement about being equated to a 2 star CMAS diver is incorrect.
I was equating the fact that a sports diver could do 20 dives and gain 2* rating the same rating as a dive leader.
The equivalencies that CMAS accept are determined by CMAS and not by BSAC or any other diving association. The Sub Aqua Association (SAA) are currently the UK representatives on CMAS and BSAC has negotiated equivalencies through the SAA, as we are no longer members.
In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
The CMAS 1 Star instructor is of the same level as our previous grade of Club Instructor. CMAS 2 Star Instructors are instructors with the full knowledge base of dive marshalling and planning associated with an Advanced Diver and full scope of instructing skills.
I am sorry you are unable to obtain the 2 Star CMAS Instructor card as a BSAC OWI but it is simply a question that CMAS does not have an equivalent grade.
May I suggest that you use this as a motivator to advance your instructor grade and attend a BSAC AIC and later an AIE. As a BSAC Advanced Diver and BSAC Advanced Instructor you will then be able to obtain the card you are seeking.
Best wishes
Alistair Reynolds
BSAC Technical Manager
I'm confused!!!
I'm an OWI and Advanced Diver. About 3 months ago I purchased a CMAS photo card from BSAC HQ. It quite clearly shows 2 stars on the reverse and the word words 'Moniteur' & 'Instructor'. So surely this is a CMAS 2 star Instructor card? Having this card with my qualifications would contradict what is said below. Please can you clarify as I am sure I can not be alone....
John..
In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
The CMAS 1 Star instructor is of the same level as our previous grade of Club Instructor. CMAS 2 Star Instructors are instructors with the full knowledge base of dive marshalling and planning associated with an Advanced Diver and full scope of instructing skills.
I am sorry you are unable to obtain the 2 Star CMAS Instructor card as a BSAC OWI but it is simply a question that CMAS does not have an equivalent grade.
May I suggest that you use this as a motivator to advance your instructor grade and attend a BSAC AIC and later an AIE. As a BSAC Advanced Diver and BSAC Advanced Instructor you will then be able to obtain the card you are seeking.
Best wishes
Alistair Reynolds
BSAC Technical Manager
:=Hi Nigel,
:=There is a vast difference between a CMAS 2 star diver and a CMAS 2 star instructor and so your statement about being equated to a 2 star CMAS diver is incorrect.
I was equating the fact that a sports diver could do 20 dives and gain 2* rating the same rating as a dive leader.
CMAS do not view DL as being a 3* qualification ( Advanced Diver is needed to attain 3* ) so it is still 2* . The fact that you could be a SD with just a few dives or an experienced DL, is irrelevent, what matters is whether the assessed training level has been met
Dave
Dave
Edward Haynes
24-06-2005, 04:13
Hi John
There is no contradiction.
Minimum diver qualification for CMAS to recognise an instructor is to be a 3* diver (BSAC AD). Therefore you are entitled to an instructor card.
In other words a 2* instructor will be at least a 3* diver.
HTH
Edward
I'm confused!!!
I'm an OWI and Advanced Diver. About 3 months ago I purchased a CMAS photo card from BSAC HQ. It quite clearly shows 2 stars on the reverse and the word words 'Moniteur' & 'Instructor'. So surely this is a CMAS 2 star Instructor card? Having this card with my qualifications would contradict what is said below. Please can you clarify as I am sure I can not be alone....
John..
:=In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
:=The CMAS 1 Star instructor is of the same level as our previous grade of Club Instructor. CMAS 2 Star Instructors are instructors with the full knowledge base of dive marshalling and planning associated with an Advanced Diver and full scope of instructing skills.
:=I am sorry you are unable to obtain the 2 Star CMAS Instructor card as a BSAC OWI but it is simply a question that CMAS does not have an equivalent grade.
:=May I suggest that you use this as a motivator to advance your instructor grade and attend a BSAC AIC and later an AIE. As a BSAC Advanced Diver and BSAC Advanced Instructor you will then be able to obtain the card you are seeking.
:=Best wishes
:=
:=Alistair Reynolds
:=BSAC Technical Manager
Hi on the SAA form to get the 2** Instructor card you have to be a Dive Supervisor (BSAC Advance Diver). There is a way round it join a SAA club then get your BSAC OWI & Advance Diver Crossed over but you might have to do the deep lift section of the Diver Rescue course but that dont say on there web site for the BSAC Advance Diver.
Thanks
Dano
SAA OWI
Dive Supervisor
Hi John
There is no contradiction.
Minimum diver qualification for CMAS to recognise an instructor is to be a 3* diver (BSAC AD). Therefore you are entitled to an instructor card.
In other words a 2* instructor will be at least a 3* diver.
HTH
Edward
:=I'm confused!!!
:=
:=I'm an OWI and Advanced Diver. About 3 months ago I purchased a CMAS photo card from BSAC HQ. It quite clearly shows 2 stars on the reverse and the word words 'Moniteur' & 'Instructor'. So surely this is a CMAS 2 star Instructor card? Having this card with my qualifications would contradict what is said below. Please can you clarify as I am sure I can not be alone....
:=
:=John..
:=
:=:=In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
:=:=The CMAS 1 Star instructor is of the same level as our previous grade of Club Instructor. CMAS 2 Star Instructors are instructors with the full knowledge base of dive marshalling and planning associated with an Advanced Diver and full scope of instructing skills.
:=:=I am sorry you are unable to obtain the 2 Star CMAS Instructor card as a BSAC OWI but it is simply a question that CMAS does not have an equivalent grade.
:=:=May I suggest that you use this as a motivator to advance your instructor grade and attend a BSAC AIC and later an AIE. As a BSAC Advanced Diver and BSAC Advanced Instructor you will then be able to obtain the card you are seeking.
:=:=Best wishes
:=:=
:=:=Alistair Reynolds
:=:=BSAC Technical Manager
Gary Cameron
29-06-2005, 10:55
This does not appear to be what Alistair Reynolds is saying???
i.e. that OWI/AD still does not equate to CMAS 2** Instructor.
Is this why an OWI CANT run a dive marshalling course. (And a CMAS 2** can???
Also I thought that BSAC AI was now a CMAS 3*** Instructor.
Minimum diver qualification for CMAS to recognise an instructor is to be a 3* diver (BSAC AD). Therefore you are entitled to an instructor card.
In other words a 2* instructor will be at least a 3* diver.
:=I'm an OWI and Advanced Diver. About 3 months ago I purchased a CMAS photo card from BSAC HQ. It quite clearly shows 2 stars on the reverse and the word words 'Moniteur' & 'Instructor'. So surely this is a CMAS 2 star Instructor card? Having this card with my qualifications would contradict what is said below. Please can you clarify as I am sure I can not be alone....
:=
:=John..
:=
:=:=In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
:=:=Best wishes
:=:=
:=:=Alistair Reynolds
:=:=BSAC Technical Manager
Why dont you speak to the SAA ask get this sorted
Dano
This does not appear to be what Alistair Reynolds is saying???
i.e. that OWI/AD still does not equate to CMAS 2** Instructor.
Is this why an OWI CANT run a dive marshalling course. (And a CMAS 2** can???
Also I thought that BSAC AI was now a CMAS 3*** Instructor.
:=Minimum diver qualification for CMAS to recognise an instructor is to be a 3* diver (BSAC AD). Therefore you are entitled to an instructor card.
:=
:=In other words a 2* instructor will be at least a 3* diver.
:=:=I'm an OWI and Advanced Diver. About 3 months ago I purchased a CMAS photo card from BSAC HQ. It quite clearly shows 2 stars on the reverse and the word words 'Moniteur' & 'Instructor'. So surely this is a CMAS 2 star Instructor card? Having this card with my qualifications would contradict what is said below. Please can you clarify as I am sure I can not be alone....
:=:=
:=:=John..
:=:=
:=:=:=In the case of instructors, it is CMAS's opinion that all instructors should be CMAS 3 star divers, namely our Advanced Diver. There is no equivalent in CMAS to the BSAC Open Water Instructor and so we are unable to obtain CMAS 2 star instructor cards for our OWIs, even if they were BSAC Advanced Divers.
:=:=:=Best wishes
:=:=:=
:=:=:=Alistair Reynolds
:=:=:=BSAC Technical Manager
Mark Wan
29-06-2005, 23:04
I'm just filling in a BSAC/SAA/CMAS form, to send back to HQ.
The following is my interpretation of the application form which I received from BSAC HQ.
It states that for an Instructor card (1, 2 or 3 star) you need to be a BSAC Advanced Diver. The equivalencies listed on the application form say that a BSAC Club Instructor is 1 star, OWI is 2 star, and AI is 3 star.
The inference being that if you are OWI/AD or OWI/FCD, you can apply for a 2 star instructor (which requires you to be a minimum of 3 star diver). And if you are AI/AD or AI/FCD you can apply for a 3 star instructor card.
However if you are OWI / DL , then you cannot apply for an instructor card, as you do not meet the CMAS requirements of being a 3 star diver.
FYI the other diver equivalencies listed are
ocean diver, club diver, sports diver - 1 star
sports diver with 10 dives since qualifying, dive leader - 2 star
advanced diver - 3 star
first class diver - 4 star
The only thing that I'm not clear about is whether the instructor cards have expiry dates on them. According to a document that I downloaded off the CMAS website, diver cards do not expire, but instructor cards expire 5 years after issue. I don't know if the BSAC/SAA/CMAS cards also carry this expiration date on the instructor cards.
This does not appear to be what Alistair Reynolds is saying???
i.e. that OWI/AD still does not equate to CMAS 2** Instructor.
Is this why an OWI CANT run a dive marshalling course. (And a CMAS 2** can???
Also I thought that BSAC AI was now a CMAS 3*** Instructor.
Hi I got my 2** Instructor one from the SAA and it has no expiry date on it.
Thanks
Dano
I'm just filling in a BSAC/SAA/CMAS form, to send back to HQ.
The following is my interpretation of the application form which I received from BSAC HQ.
It states that for an Instructor card (1, 2 or 3 star) you need to be a BSAC Advanced Diver. The equivalencies listed on the application form say that a BSAC Club Instructor is 1 star, OWI is 2 star, and AI is 3 star.
The inference being that if you are OWI/AD or OWI/FCD, you can apply for a 2 star instructor (which requires you to be a minimum of 3 star diver). And if you are AI/AD or AI/FCD you can apply for a 3 star instructor card.
However if you are OWI / DL , then you cannot apply for an instructor card, as you do not meet the CMAS requirements of being a 3 star diver.
FYI the other diver equivalencies listed are
ocean diver, club diver, sports diver - 1 star
sports diver with 10 dives since qualifying, dive leader - 2 star
advanced diver - 3 star
first class diver - 4 star
The only thing that I'm not clear about is whether the instructor cards have expiry dates on them. According to a document that I downloaded off the CMAS website, diver cards do not expire, but instructor cards expire 5 years after issue. I don't know if the BSAC/SAA/CMAS cards also carry this expiration date on the instructor cards.
:=This does not appear to be what Alistair Reynolds is saying???
:=i.e. that OWI/AD still does not equate to CMAS 2** Instructor.
:=
:=Is this why an OWI CANT run a dive marshalling course. (And a CMAS 2** can???
:=
:=Also I thought that BSAC AI was now a CMAS 3*** Instructor.
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