Knife vs Line Cutter vs Shears???

[Tuffty31]

I am an Ocean Diver with 30 dives and use a dry suit. I own most of the essentials to enable me to go and dive under supervision but do not yet own a knife.

I have scoured numerous posts and threads within this Forum and I'm still a little unsure about the various, often conflicting, views that are offered. Hence my hesitation to buy one.

I'm an educated individual who fully understands the knife is a tool to aid diver safety, and that with a sensible and considered approach to your diving this tool should (hopefully!) never be used. I strongly believe that where there is a line of any description (SMB, fishing line, etc.) in the water a cutting implement should be carried.

I used to fly aircraft and understand the value of a line cutter (what we called a J-knife). I have been a rock climbing instructor for 10 years and understand the issues surrounding the ownership and use of a knife there. I also have a good First Aid background and understand the advantages of shears.

What I am lacking is the knowledge/experience of what demands are made on a knife in the diving world. Is a knife necessary if I carried shears and a line cutter? Point or no point? Integral line cutter or not? What size? Attachment options? Construction techniques and materials? Etc. . . .

I would love to hear your views on what seems to be (at times) an emotive subject to help a newbie make an informed decision!!!

Many thanks

Tuffty

[Nigel Hewitt]

<shrug>
Strapped to my leg is a knife. Hard work but with no size limitations.

On my harness is a set of shears. Far more efficient on small stuff but faced with a 2" diameter rope have problems.

[tony J]

I would love to hear your views on what seems to be (at times) an emotive subject to help a newbie make an informed decision!!!


Tuffty
knife advantage - can use to spread butter on malt loaf.
advantage - can cut rope when you find rope undewater (once I wished I had one to cut a rope off a show that I stumbled across)
disadvantage - can lose, not necessary for my "what if" scenarios so lives in kit bag

linecutter - advantage, good for monofilament, my only worry ! (and very cheap)
disadvantage - I never use it, so I never notice the blade has rusted

trauma shears - advantage cuts webbing and monofilament
disadvantage - I don't have one and can't be arsed to buy one and I'm bound to loose it.

Tony

[ozone1]

.

Use all three.
Put htem anywhere convienient and attainable
if your arms are snagged. Keep them around
your chest - midriff area.


Cheers ozone

.

[Finless]

FWIW, I never used a knife in anger under water. Always went to catch flatties with my hand.

I have had need of a line cutter and, if you do buy one, I personally like the ones that are "dog legged" as they make sweeping behind you a little easier. They are quite cheap so I would be tempted to say get a pair regardless of your other choice(s).

I had some of the skinny shears (like scissors with blunt ends) which I kept strapped to my forearm with one end held in place by my computer strap. I used to use them a fair bit for cutting up any bits of trailing fishing line I came across.

In my opinion the most like snag you will encounter is likely to be fishing line. I have never had a problem seeing it once under water.

[Pete*]

I have all three..

small knife on the leg,
beaver Line cutter in one pocket,
Small shears in the other pocket..

the only thing I have used yet is the shears to cut the velcro off my gloves.. lol.

[Tony Dwyer]

I have all three, stowed where I can reach em.

Line cutter, good for monofilament, but check the blade often.
Shears, nice. Will cut almost anything, but as has been mentioned, are subject to size limitation.
Knide, good all round tool, especially if it has a line cutting hook. Grind the point off. Shoving a sharpy through your drysuit is not funny. :) It doesn't have to be LARGE.

I have seen a knife used in anger twice.

Once when I was hooked by an angler in Grangewaters (Thurrock, Essex). He drove a nasty teble hook through the left arm of my Gates dry suit, luckily it missed me. He'd cast his Pike rig into the area near the jetty, where the divers jump in. Fishing is verboten there. My buddy (Butch Nash) had his Knife out so quick and slashed through the line before I even saw it.

The other occasion was on a drift dive near the Manacles in Cornwall. My son was looking after the SMB. There was a sound from an outboard overhead. Not our boat, we were using a hard boat. Suddenly the line went very tight. Paul released the ratchet and the drum started to spin, very quickly. I drew my trusty old Typhoon thingy and cut the line. Paul was left holding the reel (which I still have). We had saved the reel, but the SMB was gone.
Back on the boat we were told that a RHIB full of divers had picked up our SMB and driven off with it. We never found out who they were.

[Matt Smith]

.......I would love to hear your views on what seems to be (at times) an emotive subject to help a newbie make an informed decision!!!
Something cheap and chearful that does the job that you won't miss if you lose it. Trauma shears, Z-Knife, Dive knife, even a retractable Stanley knife is OK. They all work!

Give the latest and biggest James Bond knife you find on sale at your LDS a definate miss.

With regards to positioning I wouldn't put it on a leg. Somewhere near within immediate reach (an arm or chest area/wing/bcd strap) if you need it in an emergency. If you are unfortunate to get caught in a line or netting placing the knife on a leg has great potential to get you more entangled if you struggle to reach it.

Carrying at least two forms of cutting device on any dive is prudent in the event of losing one!

[Giomanach]

Carry all three. i carry my dive knife on my leg, and it has a line cutter section. I also carry a circular line cutter in a pouch on my hip, and a pair of small shears hung on my webbing. I found the line cutter as useful cos when i once got tangled in line, it was safer to use the cutter on lines next to my hoses for fear of slashing them when i was trying to cut the line with my knife.

[Andy Botten]

I have all 3
But only a knife will free a prop.

[GaryC]

Never seen the need for a line cutter myself.

I have a knife and its useful for cutting the old cord/rope left on wrecks. Or indeed the thin line when attaching shot to wreck. Or the dangerous floaty stuff.

Trauma sheers can really cut anything else.

I have had to cut someone out of the mono stuff and found that it was quite britle and was easier to pull a part by hand. (there was lots of it)

Gary

[Nigel Hewitt]

I have had to cut someone out of the mono stuff and found that it was quite britle and was easier to pull a part by hand. (there was lots of it)When it's been down a while it gets like that.

The new stuff is like steel cheese wire. We get it a lot on the wrecks off Brighton as they are considered prime fishing spots.

[Woz]

I have one of these on my computer strap, ready to pop out when blob firing so I don't get hauled to the surface when full of helium:
http://catalog.beaversports.co.uk/product.php?pn=Trigger_Line_Cutter&pid=91
One of these on my waist:
http://catalog.beaversports.co.uk/product.php?pn=Marlin&pid=25
And one of these on my stage cylinder:
http://www.subsupply.eu/shop/product_info.php?products_id=178

Tried shears and they are pants for cutting anything thicker than string. The rivet rusts and they ping apart. Little knife is cheap so I don't mind if I lose it. Greenriver is the Daddy and will cut through anything.

Also makes a great lobby hook as if you hold the blade and shove the yellow handle into its hole. Daft lobbie grabs the handle and you yank him out.

[Dave Whitlow]

FWIW, I never used a knife in anger under water. Always went to catch flatties with my hand.


I have twice.

The first time I was the "lucky" one at the back of the boat when it fouled a buoy in Portland Harbour. It was blowing and the buoy was attached rather firmly to a wreck. A serious knife was needed to cut through the rope before the prop shaft got damaged. That gave me a closeup view of the prop I'd rather never see again! :eek:

Second time was last year, off Dover, when I found myself attached to a wreck by fishing line! That was a case for the small knife on the webbing (and a torch).


In my opinion the most like snag you will encounter is likely to be fishing line. I have never had a problem seeing it once under water.

I agree fishing line is the most worrying, being almost invisible and very strong, although netting can be a worry. I also have a net cutter which I have never used (and must remember to check the edge on the blade!).

[Finless]

Never seen the need for a line cutter myself.

I have a knife and its useful for cutting the old cord/rope left on wrecks. Or indeed the thin line when attaching shot to wreck. Or the dangerous floaty stuff.

Trauma sheers can really cut anything else.

I have had to cut someone out of the mono stuff and found that it was quite britle and was easier to pull a part by hand. (there was lots of it)

Gary

Well, line cutters have no edges that can really damage you or a hose and are therefore much safer to flash about if you can't easily reach the offending line. Also they can cut when pulled back towards the body although most knife blades seem to have a line cutting notch ...... which seems to suggest the line cutter is best for cutting line. :)

I've never tried pulling monofilament line apart but I suppose the stuff you did was very old and brittle. If it wasn't then you are very strong and I retract everything I have said and wholeheartedly concur with you. :)

Over hundreds of dives on wrecks in the Channel I have only once got snagged on monofilament line when it hooked round my backup reg after I settled on the wreck to watch a shoal of fish below and the line got trapped between two bits of plastic. I have always found it easy to see and avoid.

To be honest any implement will do but I would have used a knife last ....... a bit like not switching to 4 wheel drive except as a last resort?

[Finless]

Also makes a great lobby hook as if you hold the blade and shove the yellow handle into its hole. Daft lobbie grabs the handle and you yank him out.

And cut your fingers off? Didn't you watch Mad Max when that bloke tried to catch the matel boomerang? :eek:

:)

[AndrewA]

I too carry all three. I have used the knife (to cut rope while working underwater and the shears (to cut fishing line and when laying line ) The line cutter is in a pouch and in five years has never been used!

[Giomanach]

[QUOTE=GaryC]Never seen the need for a line cutter myself.

I have a knife and its useful for cutting the old cord/rope left on wrecks. Or indeed the thin line when attaching shot to wreck. Or the dangerous floaty stuff.

i use the knife most of the time, but i did once get my tanks caught on line, and i didntlike the idea of pokin around next to my air hoses with a knife. my line cutter is just a plastic disc with an opening in 1 side, with blades in a v shape inside. a whole lot less dangerous than poking with a knife. just my preference

[Tuffty31]

Many thanks to all who have shared their thoughts, experiences and stories on my thread. Your comments are greatly appreciated!

I think, based upon the Great Collective Knowledge, that I will do the following:

1. Line cutter in outer BCD webbing pocket.

2. Shears stored in BCD pocket or I will see if I can buy a small pouch to stitch to my BCD or attach to a spare D-ring.

3. Simple 4-5 inch knife with saw blade, attached on the opposite side to my line cutter.

This seems to me to offer the best variety of tools to deal with most eventualities.

Now to choose a knife . . . . .

Many regards all

[ChristianG]

2. Shears stored in BCD pocket or I will see if I can buy a small pouch to stitch to my BCD or attach to a spare D-ring.l
Rather than "stitch", which you cannot do on a conventional home sewing machine, you can either go to an upholsterer (usually cheap enough) or you might be better off with double sided velcro, including a glue side towards the BC, probably also double sided. Depends on how aggressive the glue bit is.

[Giomanach]

the marlin is good, but i prefer this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Snorkeling-Underwater-Waterproof-Authorized/dp/B000SOQ8RC

multi-purpose. also great sheath.

[ChristianG]

the marlin is good, but i prefer this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Snorkeling-Underwater-Waterproof-Authorized/dp/B000SOQ8RC

multi-purpose. also great sheath.
The Aquatec (http://www.aquatec.co.uk/pages/accessories/raptor.php) RRP (RRPs are often negotiable) is £21.90 (excludes shipping but you're talking UKP and they live in Dorset with outlets pretty well everywhere in the UK). The Amazon price including shipping equates to £28.65 which may, or may not, require currency conversion charges and import duties.

Frankly I wouldn't call the Amazon price the best deal in town, I'll however leave the efficacy of this knife to others.

[Mike Halligan]

[QUOTE=ChristianG] The Amazon price including shipping equates to £28.65 which may, or may not, require currency conversion charges and import duties.
[QUOTE]

Whoopee! EU Import Duty and also UK VAT and then there's UK VAT on the EU Import Duty, Santa Darling will be pleased. So will that nice José Manuel Barroso. :p

[PeteM]

[QUOTE=ChristianG] The Amazon price including shipping equates to £28.65 which may, or may not, require currency conversion charges and import duties.
[QUOTE]

Whoopee! EU Import Duty and also UK VAT and then there's UK VAT on the EU Import Duty, Santa Darling will be pleased. So will that nice José Manuel Barroso. :p

and dont forget the post office collection charge, and the VAT on the post office collection charge

[PeteM]

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