Help - need flippers for leg spasms

[monique]

Doctors have not given me a diagnosis yet - so far it's sort of like benign spasm and fasciculation syndrome - exercise exacerbated, but getting worse. I am going snorkelling again in February and really need some flippers. We went last month to Maldives and found the flippers made my legs have big time spasms. So I had to swim with my arms only. When I got into shallow water over the reef I had to point my toe and it triggered a bad one. Should say spasm makes me stiff from hip down to toe and is PAINFUL. But while I am still able to snorkel especially into deep water - so freeing - I am going to do as much as I can. Some reviewers say full footed fins for surface swimming and flexible. Others say split fins. or biofins or scubapro twin jetfins. Thing is - it is better not to point my foot but to retain ankle angle.

Anyone got any advice?

[Kris2]

try force fins, i tend to get less cramps with mine.maybe if you kick from your glutes and keep your legs straightish. it will reduce spasms in your hams.

[bigjo]

Doctors have not given me a diagnosis yet - so far it's sort of like benign spasm and fasciculation syndrome - exercise exacerbated, but getting worse. I am going snorkelling again in February and really need some flippers. We went last month to Maldives and found the flippers made my legs have big time spasms. So I had to swim with my arms only. When I got into shallow water over the reef I had to point my toe and it triggered a bad one. Should say spasm makes me stiff from hip down to toe and is PAINFUL. But while I am still able to snorkel especially into deep water - so freeing - I am going to do as much as I can. Some reviewers say full footed fins for surface swimming and flexible. Others say split fins. or biofins or scubapro twin jetfins. Thing is - it is better not to point my foot but to retain ankle angle.

Anyone got any advice?
Have you tried frog kicking instead of normal flutter kicks? I would also advise split fins as they offer less resistance than normal.

[rth]

I would agree with Kris2. Since I bought some force fins I have had no problems with calf muscle cramps.

[Stephen Hodgkins]

Doctors have not given me a diagnosis yet - so far it's sort of like benign spasm and fasciculation syndrome - exercise exacerbated, but getting worse. I am going snorkelling again in February and really need some flippers. We went last month to Maldives and found the flippers made my legs have big time spasms. So I had to swim with my arms only. When I got into shallow water over the reef I had to point my toe and it triggered a bad one. Should say spasm makes me stiff from hip down to toe and is PAINFUL. But while I am still able to snorkel especially into deep water - so freeing - I am going to do as much as I can. Some reviewers say full footed fins for surface swimming and flexible. Others say split fins. or biofins or scubapro twin jetfins. Thing is - it is better not to point my foot but to retain ankle angle.

Anyone got any advice?

Hi Monique,

Firstly can I say I am not a medical doctor.

Whilst the advice given by other members is good I think you should seriously consider not snorkling until such time as a doctor has explained the full range of issues that you will have to face.

Whilst you may be happy to suffer some amount of pain (using frog finning technique may help), this condition could get worse and result in your being stranded with only your arms for propulsion.

This could result in a serious incident which could put you or a buddy's life in danger.

I dont want to put you off, but I think to wait for professional medical advice would be the safest option.

I wish you luck and hope you can find a suitable remedy.

Steve

[monique]

Looked up force fins - they look like the one's attached to the ankle not including the toes. They don't look as expensive as apollo biofins. Could probably try those and split fins. I am going to try them out and practice in the local deep pool before I go out in February.

As to Stephen, I note your concern and can assure you that I have considered the implications of my buddy. Mostly I went out with my daughter, an advanced diver, swimming life certificate holder, who boxes and rides horses. So she is incredibly strong and proficient as a swimmer. As for myself, I have ridden competitively for the last 16 years and have immensely strong upper body strength. As a child, I did synchronised swimming, speed swimming, water skiing, and body surfing. I have lived in cold Britain for 25 years and have missed the sea so very much having grown up near the Pacific and Gulf of Mexico (plus Lake Ponchatrain which sometimes gets sharks). So swimming in the deep is freeing and like my soul going back to where it belongs. Plus I swam in a stronger way than the bad swimmers with flippers on some safaris!. And I don't know how long I will be able to enjoy it. But I can no longer travel on my own, over long distances on land I am in a wheelchair, and cannot swim (or ride) on my own. Bit sad so I am trying to seize the moment of everything I can for as long as I can. The other thing is, as long as they haven't diagnosed anything too horrible, I am still insurable to travel. That is a BIG point. At the moment the doctors still write me a 'fit to travel' letter.
When snorkelling last month, I used only my arms and occasionally frog kicked (although could sometime only use one leg). On Thudufushi in Maldives, the staff there had two snorkelling safaris per day. So even when it was just me (often was) two of them were there to look after me and they took a life ring. They would pull me through the bit between reef bits when current got slightly stronger, and on one trip they were taking photos when the current (just before a storm) suddenly got incredibly strong so I held on to the buoy until they got close enough to pull me into shore. So I am not going with 'friends' but people who know what could happen and are going prepared. At the second island, Kuramathi, the channel was too shallow which triggered a spasm whereby my daughter took my hand and pulled me in where I waited the five minutes for it to finish. Only time it was dangerous to not have fins was at dawn when a black tipped adult reef shark took too much interest in us. And I obviously looked more like a fish in distress so he swam at me especially when I stood on the rock to stop a spasm. She grabbed me and we went quickly over the reef to the deep before the beach. He passed again (warning?) so we swam quickly and quietly in. But that certainly hasn't deterred me.

Someone told me today of her last trip to the Maldives where she had to take a boat over the reef to snorkel. A woman of 34 with a heart problem was ignored for 40 minutes - probably thinking she saw a really nice bit of reef, before they noted she hadn't moved when the boat came. She died of a heart attack. We all agreed - what a nice way to die - peacefully floating in the ocean looking at a beautiful reef.

[sharkhunter]

Doctors have not given me a diagnosis yet - so far it's sort of like benign spasm and fasciculation syndrome - exercise exacerbated, but getting worse. I am going snorkelling again in February and really need some flippers. We went last month to Maldives and found the flippers made my legs have big time spasms. So I had to swim with my arms only. When I got into shallow water over the reef I had to point my toe and it triggered a bad one. Should say spasm makes me stiff from hip down to toe and is PAINFUL. But while I am still able to snorkel especially into deep water - so freeing - I am going to do as much as I can. Some reviewers say full footed fins for surface swimming and flexible. Others say split fins. or biofins or scubapro twin jetfins. Thing is - it is better not to point my foot but to retain ankle angle.

Anyone got any advice?

Hi Monique,

Lets hope it's nothing to worry about first off!

Firstly (like Steve said) I am not a medical doctor, so don't take this as gospel, it's just things that may also be worth thinking about.

If the pain is more like muscle cramps it could be a combination of:
1/ Dehydration - If you are dehydrated this will cause very bad cramps in muscles that are being exerted, especially in sea water while snorkeling with the sun beating down on your head. As you were suffering in the Maldives I say you probably weren't drink enough water if it was muscle cramps and spasms. If this is the problem you may also have had a headache and maybe upset stomach a day or so later. (most people blame food when they get upset stomachs while abroad, but unless your sick as well it's more likely to be dehydration - alcohol also doesn't help as it dehydrates you).

The currents can be strong in the Maldives, so you may have had to work harder, leading to getting more dehydrated and muscle fatigue.

Best way to combat dehydration is don't get dehydrated to start with - load on water a few weeks before your trip and while your away drink plenty (at least 2 Lts a day) . Also drink plenty before snorkeling or diving.

2/ Bad finning technique - maybe you need some instruction, but as I haven't seen your finning I can't tell.

3/ Wrong type of fins - if your just snorkeling you need snorkeling type fins, not dive fins. Fins are a personal taste and not everyone gets on with all makes, after all we are all different in build, strength, and muscle mass. If possible it would be worth trying a few out until you find the one you get on with.

4/ Consider doing some gym work. Do some light weight training to strengthen your leg muscles which will give you more power and some aerobic exercise for endurance.


Also consider it could be a back / neck problem.
If I was you, first thing I would do is get my back checked by an Osteopath as you could have a lower back or neck problem (being a sufferer from a neck problem from a motorcycle accident years ago, I do sometimes get numbness and pain down my legs and arms if I don't get my Osteopath to fix the problem). Find an Osteopath rather than get a GP to check your back, as they are experts in this field (GP's aren't).

Hopefully this may help, good luck and let us know the outcome. :)

[bigjo]

Doctors have not given me a diagnosis yet - so far it's sort of like benign spasm and fasciculation syndrome - exercise exacerbated, but getting worse. I am going snorkelling again in February and really need some flippers. We went last month to Maldives and found the flippers made my legs have big time spasms. So I had to swim with my arms only. When I got into shallow water over the reef I had to point my toe and it triggered a bad one. Should say spasm makes me stiff from hip down to toe and is PAINFUL. But while I am still able to snorkel especially into deep water - so freeing - I am going to do as much as I can. Some reviewers say full footed fins for surface swimming and flexible. Others say split fins. or biofins or scubapro twin jetfins. Thing is - it is better not to point my foot but to retain ankle angle.

Anyone got any advice?
Just had another thought, have you considered a sea scooter? a bit OTT I know, but I believe they're becoming more reasonably priced now (around £100 on ebay) and may be an option for you so you could avoid the finning problem altogether.

[Maria CM]

My Cressi fins turn up my toes a little which helps deter leg cramps (not sure about spasms)

Does tonic water still have quinine traces in it? I had a friend who started drinking a glass of tonic a day and her cramping problems stopped. Not sure if the quinine is still in it though - could be worth a look ....

Also ensuring the areas that are suffering from the muscle spasms are kept warm - I don't know what you usually wear but it might be worth putting some additional leg warmth in place - fourth element leggings or similar....

HTH

best wishes,

Maria

[Alison Boler]

I was wondering about a scooter as being the solution too! Saw them on sale in Dixons at the airport in Manchester recently and they were starting pretty cheaply - not much more than a pair of top quality fins.
I would also personally recommend strap fins with boots rather than full foot fins. I often get cramp in my feet wearing shoe fins for any length of time as they seem to put my feet (high arches) into a cramp inducing position.
Some other tips:
Don't point your toes at any point, try and keep your legs relaxed.
For extended swim outs and back, get on your back. I don't know why this helps really, but it seems to put you in a more relaxed leg position.
Obviously, wear a lifejacket just in case you get into difficulties. I know it doesn't feel as "free" but if you are correctly weighted, it doesn't make much difference and would make ALL the difference if you had to stop finning and needed help and support.
Try and avoid snorkelling where you have a lot of finning to do or hitch a boat ride out to the place. If you are snorkelling in calm water and can drop into position, you can glide over the corals etc using a frog kick and glide motion that ought to be less stressful on your legs and avoid building up to cramp.
Good luck.
Allie

[monique]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Maria - I do take large amounts of quinine, it's o.k. but better linked with diazepam which I refused to take when snorkelling as it reduces reaction times. They only last 5 minutes (only had one full blown full leg cramp), after which I just paddles about in the shallow lagoon.

I think what many of you said about my finning technique is spot on. I spoke to my daughter asking if 'frog kicking' was like the breast stroke for which she told me not quite. I am going to order different reasonably priced flippers to try out. But listening to how I am not supposed to point my feet, I realise I probably went about it all wrong. I imagined I should swim like I used to body surf as a child.

My daughter - the fitness fanatic, agrees I need to go to the gym this time to increase the muscle strength. I only have those needed for riding and swimming in a shallow pool with lots of stops!

I tried the life preserver jackets and it felt like swimming against the tide all the time. It was easier to pull me about when necessary, but hard for me to move my arms freely. And it kept the lower part of my body on the surface so couldn't do my version of frog kick - breast stroke. Might try the reef jacket.

Also looked at the BSAC site for snorkelling and it looks like I SHOULD have 2 buddies. So should everyone. I must admit I did feel more secure when there were more than 2. At one point, when we went out with someone else (3 in total) and she had problems with her mask I could see that problems could happen to anyone and I am certainly not a great buddy to have.
I am looking at getting some lessons on snorkelling before I go out again. It is so beautiful in the Maldives. BUT it's true about the currents. They were tough at Thudufushi, south ari atoll and without buddies I would have been taken out to see. At kuramathi at Rudshoo (sp) north ari atoll there were only mild currents, mostly in-out and I had little difficulty with that. It was only a problem there in the shallow which meant I had to freestyle as I couldn't put my legs under me.

I wore a full bodies exposure suit so felt with the water had a cold current but it made the water always feel more inviting. Might invest in a light weight wet suit for next time. But that might increase dehydration from perspiration.

My daughter got mild heat exhaustion and had to take electolytes. I grew up in the heat of LA (112 in some summers) New Orleans (100 degrees and 98% humidity) so go back to childhood mode. Drinking soft drinks with sugar, lots of water, and lots of salt on all my food. In fact, I have more problems coping with the cold (probably psychological).

Any advice about beautiful, warm, easy current snorkelling? Also needs to be malarial free, and relatively clear of insect-borne diseases. Especially Maldives. Someone recommended Kamandoo. Red sea is lovely to look at only under the water as above it's just beige and rendered buildings - what about currents. Does anyone actually snorkel in the cold British waters? That is without a dry suit.
So force fins,
Thanks to you all.
Monique

[bigjo]

Thank you everyone for the advice. Maria - I do take large amounts of quinine, it's o.k. but better linked with diazepam which I refused to take when snorkelling as it reduces reaction times. They only last 5 minutes (only had one full blown full leg cramp), after which I just paddles about in the shallow lagoon.

I think what many of you said about my finning technique is spot on. I spoke to my daughter asking if 'frog kicking' was like the breast stroke for which she told me not quite. I am going to order different reasonably priced flippers to try out. But listening to how I am not supposed to point my feet, I realise I probably went about it all wrong. I imagined I should swim like I used to body surf as a child.

My daughter - the fitness fanatic, agrees I need to go to the gym this time to increase the muscle strength. I only have those needed for riding and swimming in a shallow pool with lots of stops!

I tried the life preserver jackets and it felt like swimming against the tide all the time. It was easier to pull me about when necessary, but hard for me to move my arms freely. And it kept the lower part of my body on the surface so couldn't do my version of frog kick - breast stroke. Might try the reef jacket.

Also looked at the BSAC site for snorkelling and it looks like I SHOULD have 2 buddies. So should everyone. I must admit I did feel more secure when there were more than 2. At one point, when we went out with someone else (3 in total) and she had problems with her mask I could see that problems could happen to anyone and I am certainly not a great buddy to have.
I am looking at getting some lessons on snorkelling before I go out again. It is so beautiful in the Maldives. BUT it's true about the currents. They were tough at Thudufushi, south ari atoll and without buddies I would have been taken out to see. At kuramathi at Rudshoo (sp) north ari atoll there were only mild currents, mostly in-out and I had little difficulty with that. It was only a problem there in the shallow which meant I had to freestyle as I couldn't put my legs under me.

I wore a full bodies exposure suit so felt with the water had a cold current but it made the water always feel more inviting. Might invest in a light weight wet suit for next time. But that might increase dehydration from perspiration.

My daughter got mild heat exhaustion and had to take electolytes. I grew up in the heat of LA (112 in some summers) New Orleans (100 degrees and 98% humidity) so go back to childhood mode. Drinking soft drinks with sugar, lots of water, and lots of salt on all my food. In fact, I have more problems coping with the cold (probably psychological).

Any advice about beautiful, warm, easy current snorkelling? Also needs to be malarial free, and relatively clear of insect-borne diseases. Especially Maldives. Someone recommended Kamandoo. Red sea is lovely to look at only under the water as above it's just beige and rendered buildings - what about currents. Does anyone actually snorkel in the cold British waters? That is without a dry suit.
So force fins,
Thanks to you all.
Monique

You could also consider a snorkel vest (http://www.snorkeling.info/snorkeling-equipment/snorkel-vests/index.html) which is not the same as a life jacket and does not encroach on freedom of arm movement.
There is plenty of snorkelling available in UK waters, I've attached a pdf file of suggested places that is on the snorkel section of the BSAC website 642 which can be done comfortably in a wetsuit or semi dry in the summer months. I'd also suggest a trip to Lundy island off the Devon coast as they do organised snorkel trips around the island and you may also get to play with the seals there.
I also found this American based website (http://www.seaforyourself.com/) that specialises in guided snorkel safaris who may be able to help you with other warmer sites and there is also (http://www.snorkelshack.com/).

[Alison Boler]

Re good snorkelling sites. I would recommend places where you can snorkel easily from the shore ie where the coral starts right off the beach. Some that come to mind:
Bonaire
Grand Cayman - not 7 mile beach but around the Turtle Farm, or Devil's Grotto etc
Some Maldives islands - check house reef
Eilat, Israel
Dahab, Egypt

Bonaire is particularly good.

All the best
Allie

[monique]

Thank you alison, Grand Cayman (and Little Cayman) are on my list of things to do. I keep asking hubby if he wouldn't like to work there as it's so cold here in winter. I haven't looked into Bonaire but will do.

I am looking into Maldives with house reefs, but need to check out currents. I read one review from trip adviser from North Male atoll which mentioned very strong currents. He said he'd heard of two snorkelers who were washed away and not found for a few days. (heresay evidence) So we are going to discuss it with the rep we met when last there. But I WILL get some practice in with new flippers BEFORE I go so won't need to depend on arms.

Daughter has cressi full foot fins - I found them stiff.

After reading I realise it is mostly that my technique is really bad.

I am on quinine but am seeing consultant this week to ask for better drugs that prevent the cramps and fasciculations.

Will look into the special snorkelling trips as my daughter is going to a job in Europe this Spring so it will be just me.

[johnyhog]

Good for you for perservering at something you love, The sea can harm but the healing power of swimming around a beautifull reef full of fish is second to none. Not too mention the benefit for your heart and lungs.

Sounds like you've got most safety aspects covered and hope you don't mind me sharing some ideas/thoughts. A scooter could be the way to go with maybe a safety bouy similar to an old style smb. (A largish round bouy with a flag on) or even a ring like spearfishermen use. this would give you something to hang on in the event of a cramp. Also you could store fluid, mini flares etc on it. (maybe overdoing it a bit but just athought:) )

A wetsuit gives bouyancy as well as protection even if you had to wear a very light ditchable weightbelt.

Hope all goes well with your treatment. If your ever lucky/unlucky enough to be in Wales I've snorkelled West wales with seals in the summer in just a bathing suit (me not the seals) the waters clear and some great drop offs and loads of fish. would a mono-fin work??

Good luck and all the best, John

[AndyA]

Hi
Ive read your posts and unless ive missed it somewhere I dont see whether you are stretching your muscles before exercise.
As part of my job i instruct self defence and we will always do warm up with muscle stretches before any real physical activity to prevent any injury.

Andy

[johnyhog]

A scooter could be the way to go with maybe a safety bouy similar to an old style smb. (A largish round bouy with a flag on) or even a ring like spearfishermen use. this would give you something to hang on in the event of a cramp. Also you could store fluid, mini flares etc on it. (maybe overdoing it a bit but just athought:) )



as if by magic, check this out

http://www.scubatoys.com/store/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=Divers_Platform

[Kris2]

would slightly disagree with the hydration coment. probably more beneficial to take isotonic drinks before swimming. water itself can have diuretic effect by excreting more water you remove more salts from the body as they have an affinity for water.infact some athletes in hot climates actually take salt tablets.(not recomended with BP probs)

[monique]

Sorry people for not getting back sooner - work! When we went to Maldives my daughter who was diving every day got mild heat exhaustion. I only had diarialyte (re-hydration and sugar) and she felt so much better she bounced off the walls. She carried on taking 1/2 sachet each day to ensure she didn't get it again. I did not need them. I lived in Los Angeles for my first 12 years and my father used to go on about salt all the time in the summer (112 degree heat). He even had a salt rock in his pocket! So I just salted my food A LOT, and was all right., drank water, and kept alcohol to reasonable low levels (nom). We will take re-hydration sachets for my next trip.

I have ordered the force fins from US as couldn't find basic ones on line in UK. Will be trying them out in the swimming pool before holiday. But after reading many comments telling me about techniques, I realised I don't have one. I just swim as in free style (american crawl). So my flipper kick has pointed toes. I am having a lesson with a swim teacher/BSAC instructor to teach me how to kick!

And no - I don't stretch before or after swimming. Will try before swimming in the pool today!

HOLIDAY SNORKELLING LOCATIONS
Bonaire looks like high crime and some illness.
Cayman looks good on both counts - hope to go out of the hurricane season!
Looked at Egypt - DOHA is on list for HIGH risk terrorist attacks and has had one (Australian High Embassy). OMAN is there too. Lot's of illness as per food sickness. And usual mosquito issues.
Eilat is a possibility - low crime, low illness - not such great risk of terrorism, but did you all know that if you have a stamp from there you can't go into OMAN, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait.
Just a note to anyone going to Caribbean - there have been outbreaks of Malaria is many of the islands. Do check out if the one your visiting is on list and take DEET.

Next trip - got cheap deal to Kuramathi for February so we are going again. There are mild currents, loads of sharks, stingrays, morays, and usual trigger fish. We are hoping our inquisitive adult reef shark will not try again with bump and bite technique. We don't carry knives or anything to hit it with. So I don't think we will be doing dawn dive again as that was the time he was doing the wiggle eating and checking us out..

[monique]

Finally went to Kuramathi, Maldives. Unfortunately, daughter got food poisoning so she only went on 3 dives, and her being delierious meant I had to look after her. So got a good tan but not so much snorkelling. I don't usually tan as have a full body rash suit so can spend hours in the sun. Some days it was really rough with strong currents. So glad I got some flippers. Bought the force fins but couldn't figure our how to use them without getting a lot of resistance. Also, thankfully brought UK divers reef flippers which were short but had great ankle support and were easy to use. Took Speedo training hand flippers which were also great but hard to take pictures with them on. And doing the o.k. symbol was hard to make out.

So am now totally hooked on 'skin diving'. I did do some diving down but only when there was something to see. Saw zebra moray eels, schools of parrot fish, Napoleon, titan trigger, blue trigger, lobsters, a lion fish. AND a graceful Manta ray.

Looking outside at the gray day in UK need to go to the ocean somewhere soon.

Thanks for all of you telling me I hadn't a clue on how to use flippers. I've taken all your advice on board, created a good push technique (I roll my legs and hands up and use them both to push off). This time I had no cramps - stretched while putting flippers on. Only got tired legs after one swim when I went out for 1 1/2 hours with heavy surf as v. high tide. (left sick daughter and went with an Austrian man).

[Maria CM]

Hi Monique,

Sorry about your daughter but glad things went well with your fins.

best wishes,

Maria

[Cath Darton]

Definitely Force fins are the way to go here...

[Yazzyfooty]

Monique
Good to hear your issues with leg cramps have been sorted.

Can I just say every time I read the word flipper it sent a horrible shudder down me, please, the things we put on our feet are fins not flippers. I am not being pedantic but it was drummed into me when I started diver training that it is fins not flippers.

Hope you have many cramp free dives with your new fins.

[Maria CM]

Can I just say every time I read the word flipper it sent a horrible shudder down me, please, the things we put on our feet are fins not flippers. I am not being pedantic but it was drummed into me when I started diver training that it is fins not flippers.

Hope you have many cramp free dives with your new fins.

LOL - did you notice I amended the title on my earliest reply because I started getting all quivery about the 'f' word?

best wishes,

Maria

[ChangeAgent]

Force Fins is the answer, not cheap, but since my wife switched to them she has not had a cramp (had them on every dive) and she is a lot faster compared to before (underwater that is).

she has these as they have the most comfortable instep. http://www.forcefin.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=FT

[monique]

I bought some force fins - the smallest ones but couldn't figure out how to use them. I was fine paddling on my back, but when I turned over just got resistance. The instructions were not very instructional I found. Perhaps you could tell me how your wife uses them.

In the end, I have been using US Divers small reef fins. They are fine for preventing cramping, but in current there is not enough push. I use hand fins (actually used for swimming exercises) to give me greater push through the water. I found in Soma Bay, Egypt, I would definitely have preferred longer fins as the current, and waves, wind were strong. Still I managed out there for 1 and 1/2 hours (about 1 kilometre against the current and 1 with it coming back).

So I might try force fins again - but this time in the pool!

[ChangeAgent]

Dear Monique

My wife told me she had to learn to flipper again as it is a totally different technique. She compares it (the movement) to bicycling underwater.

I borrowed them a few times and was getting the hang after about 2 hours of practice; it indeed requires you to rethink the way you flipper. Once used to it I was getting along with them fine.

Have a look here and see if this helps:

http://www.forcefin.com/FF_PAGES/Truth_Dive2.htm

http://www.forcefin.com/FF_PAGES/Truth_Dive2.htm

[ChangeAgent]

Dear Monique

also found this maybe you can see how they use use the FF.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&hl=en&v=1ZfcogWWHNQ&gl=US&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leisurepro.com%2Fprod%2FFRFP .html%3Fci_src%3D14110944%26ci_sku%3DFRFP

[johnyhog]

http://www.bluewatersports.eu/sevylor-surface-support-buoy--catch-keep-net-1365-p.asp

Hey Monique, hope your well. :)

have a look at item above. might be good for hanging on for a rest, bottle of water, camera even a phone for emergency (in w/proof bag of course).

take care, j