Oceans - Pony config?

[Gav S]

Hello,

Have been watching the Oceans series and notice that when using a Pony cylinder some of the divers choose to attach the pony directly behind the main cylinder - what could be the reasons for this out of interest?

I assume it provides good balance on the vertical but would have though the horizontal balance would be quite off as the centre of gravity is moved well out from the body mass...(or have I mixed up the vertical/horizontal there - I'm sure you know what I mean...).

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Gav.

[ChristianG]

Have been watching the Oceans series and notice that when using a Pony cylinder some of the divers choose to attach the pony directly behind the main cylinder - what could be the reasons for this out of interest?

I assume it provides good balance on the vertical but would have though the horizontal balance would be quite off as the centre of gravity is moved well out from the body mass...(or have I mixed up the vertical/horizontal there - I'm sure you know what I mean...).
Umm, Gav you clearly didn't bother to do a search (http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/search.php?searchid=512062).

[Gav S]

Umm, Gav you clearly didn't bother to do a search (http://www.bsacforum.co.uk/forums/search.php?searchid=512062).


Hmm, I don't get it - which of the threads that appear by clicking on your link am I supposed to be looking at?

[tony J]

Hello,


I assume it provides good balance on the vertical but would have though the horizontal balance would be quite off as the centre of gravity is moved well out from the body mass...(or have I mixed up the vertical/horizontal there - I'm sure you know
Gav.
some people can cope with the imbalance and not mind. Bit like carrying a bike wheel home in one hand, no reason to design a bike wheel shoulder harness for a little imbalance.

Others equate it more to having to carry a 5 years kid on one hip, too much imbalance (women can also do this with little complaint however !)

Tony

[ChristianG]

Hmm, I don't get it - which of the threads that appear by clicking on your link am I supposed to be looking at?
I refer to the fact that questions like yours have already been done to death, over and over again (and the link tells you, or should, exactly that).

Why not look at some of those links? IOW do your research! You'll probably get a very considered view of the issues without making many of us repeat our opinions yet again.

Sounds reasonable to me, anyway.

There ain't really much new in the (recreational) underwater world. Ponys is one such.

[bigjo]

I refer to the fact that questions like yours have already been done to death, over and over again (and the link tells you, or should, exactly that).

Why not look at some of those links? IOW do your research! You'll probably get a very considered view of the issues without making many of us repeat our opinions yet again.

Sounds reasonable to me, anyway.

There ain't really much new in the (recreational) underwater world. Ponys is one such.
So basically, before asking a question, spend hours reaming through various search engines and websites before asking anyone to point you in the right direction or repeat themselves. Makes forums like this all worthwhile don't you think:rolleyes: Maybe we should advise all forum members that questions must not be asked here before exhausting all other possibilities first

[nigelhoath]

Gav I had a pool session yesterday to try different pony set ups. The instructors suggested as an option a central piggy back but pointed out the problems: weight to back and difficult to lie kit down.

In the end I had the pony mounted to the right moving 2 kilos on my belt to the left. When I first put it on I felt the weight pulling me back (not a problem after a few seconds getting used to it) and imagine it would have been worse piggied central for the reasons you suggested.

But in the water it gave me zero problems. Didn't really notice it. The bigger issue was getting all the extra tubes sorted. Sadly with other kit to try two hours wasn't enough to get everything changed as I wanted but with one more session I should be there :)

[Brian_C]

Gav I had a pool session yesterday to try different pony set ups.
How was the pony bag Nigel ??

[nigelhoath]

How was the pony bag Nigel ??

Brian I didn't get to try it. Just ran out of time. I first tried two sets of new regs, then had various tubes moved, then the pony as described. It's incredible where two hours goes and that was with a great kit man doing all the changes for me. But I'll return in two weeks and hopefully get some side slung try outs :)

[Kris2]

Christian. Maybe new divers need to ask questions that have been done to death. and maybe not everyone is a whizz with a PC. Maybe you should leave the answering of questions that are below your elitist level to the good peops of this forum who genuinely like to help other divers, no matter what their experience.

[johnyhog]

i think we get too wrapped up in club'ism' :( sometimes, if your pony is comfy and balanced, accsesable to you and even your buddy. If its diff' from everyone else so what? you might start a trend. I like looking at new or old Q's keeps me busy while missus is watching that get me outta the jungle pooh! I like to think that if i ask a Q and believe me I've asked a few dull uns, people shouldn't answer uless its constructive. :D

[Dingham_rob]

Well said Kris2. I recently got my post torn apart by a 'certain member' and was left feeling totally flattened. I thought the point of the forum was to help other, possibly less experienced divers to advance their knowledge and maybe have a laugh and joke along the way. Its nice to know not everyone looks down on newbies :)

Regards

Rob

[Tony Dwyer]

Well said Kris2. I recently got my post torn apart by a 'certain member' and was left feeling totally flattened. I thought the point of the forum was to help other, possibly less experienced divers to advance their knowledge and maybe have a laugh and joke along the way. Its nice to know not everyone looks down on newbies :)

Regards

Rob

Rob

We were all beginner divers once upon a time. Even after many years, I still find things to learn, often from people with far less experience than me. :)

There are no dumb questions, except the ones that don't get asked. :)
I would rather a newbie ask a question that I have answered a 1000 times before (for others) than said newbie fall foul of the incident pit.

I frequently use a 12 or 15 ltr cylinder with a pony mounted to the right of the main cylinder, as close to the BC as possible. I don't bother with balancing weights and frankly don't notice any imbalance when diving. However I am rather broad of shoulder, :) and I am correctly weighted.

My pony is attached via a solid cast ally mount, that is easy to 'quick release'.

Stand by for a flurry of:

Don't buy a pony bag!
You should side sling the pony
Don't bother with a pony, get a twinset
Don't bother with a twinset go straight to a Rebreather
Don't bother with SCR (Sermi-closed Rebreather) go direct to a CCR (Closed Circuit Rebreather)

Go straight to Jail, do not pass go and do not collect £200.

Some will espouse the view that any of the above is absolutely and definitively correct way to go. This is of course utter tosh. Whatever works safely for you, is comfortable and appropriate for the intended dive is OK.

These viewpoints and many more will be yours to enjoy in the coming weeks.

Should you wish, you could spend hours, that might be better used elsewhere, searching this forum for previous discussions on these and many other matters.

Welcome :)

[tony J]

Stand by for a flurry of:

Don't buy a pony bag!
You should side sling the pony
Don't bother with a pony, get a twinset
Don't bother with a twinset go straight to a Rebreather
Don't bother with SCR (Sermi-closed Rebreather) go direct to a CCR (Closed Circuit Rebreather)


Don't bother with a CCR , get a CCR with a integrate bailiout DV and an ADV ;-)

Tony (pony bag, buddy pony strap, left mounted pony - I'm amazed I'm alive)

[Tony Dwyer]

Don't bother with a CCR , get a CCR with a integrate bailiout DV and an ADV ;-)

Tony (pony bag, buddy pony strap, left mounted pony - I'm amazed I'm alive)

By jove I think he's got it! :)

[johnyhog]

I like to mount my pony from behind, my sheep is too fast:D. its ok i can say that, i'm Welsh.:D

[Gav S]

Hello again – just noticed there’s been a little more activity on this thread so have had a good read through.

Not that it’s important, but, for what it’s worth, I’d just like to make a couple of points/clarifications…

1) I appreciate there is a supportive/friendly tone to some responses which (in my mind quite rightly) challenge the idea of “ticking off” people who ask questions which may have been asked before (god forbid)…This forum is probably at it’s best when it is providing a friendly and well informed environment in which people can learn from the experience of others - experience, presumably, developed through years of “repetition”, in one form or another…so ask away.:)

2) Perhaps my original post wasn’t clear…I wasn’t intending to ask about the range of possible pony configurations and the advantages/disadvantages of same. I was simply surprised to see the specific configuration used in the Oceans series and have never before seen it suggested that one should consider mounting a pony (oo-er) in this particular way. I could not really see any advantages to this specific form - hence I wondered, in passing,:rolleyes: why someone would make a positive choice to adopt this approach…

3) In the most recent episode, I noticed the ponies were mounted on the side of the cylinders – maybe they had a read of the forum (probably using the search function - being proper scientists…) and learned they had options…;)


Cheers all,

[Mark Cowgill]

I refer to the fact that questions like yours have already been done to death, over and over again (and the link tells you, or should, exactly that).

Why not look at some of those links? IOW do your research! You'll probably get a very considered view of the issues without making many of us repeat our opinions yet again.

Sounds reasonable to me, anyway.

There ain't really much new in the (recreational) underwater world. Ponys is one such.

Have you seen your bum or something?,crikey I hope you dont answer any of my questions.
Thats if I dare ask any again.

[Tony Dwyer]

1) I appreciate there is a supportive/friendly tone to some responses which (in my mind quite rightly) challenge the idea of “ticking off” people who ask questions which may have been asked before (god forbid)…This forum is probably at it’s best when it is providing a friendly and well informed environment in which people can learn from the experience of others - experience, presumably, developed through years of “repetition”, in one form or another…so ask away.:)


Well said. :)

2) Perhaps my original post wasn’t clear…I wasn’t intending to ask about the range of possible pony configurations and the advantages/disadvantages of same. I was simply surprised to see the specific configuration used in the Oceans series and have never before seen it suggested that one should consider mounting a pony (oo-er) in this particular way. I could not really see any advantages to this specific form - hence I wondered, in passing,:rolleyes: why someone would make a positive choice to adopt this approach…


Sticking the pony on the back of a single cylinder would seem to me to be a little daft. It would increase your overall size significantly and entanglement risk.. The pony pillar valve would probably be well out of reach (unless you're an Orang Utan). There might also be a slight increase in drag. ??
I'm not sure what it would do to balance. Perhaps I'll try in the pool. :)


3) In the most recent episode, I noticed the ponies were mounted on the side of the cylinders – maybe they had a read of the forum (probably using the search function - being proper scientists…) and learned they had options…;)


This thread would not have had any effect as the programmes were recorded some time ago, but as you say, they could have searched the forum for previous discussions. :)

[Andy Botten]

Pony bag: Isn't that something you put oats in and stick it under its nose to eat from? :D

[Dave Whitlow]

Pony bag: Isn't that something you put oats in and stick it under its nose to eat from? :D

Having briefly experimented with one (and I mean briefly!) I think you have identified the best use for one.

Perhaps the idea might catch on and we will see a range of sizes up to 18 litre pony bag. Would that be called shire bag?

[Tony Dwyer]

Having briefly experimented with one (and I mean briefly!) I think you have identified the best use for one.
Would have to be for a very narrow nosed pony.:)


Perhaps the idea might catch on and we will see a range of sizes up to 18 litre pony bag. Would that be called shire bag?

No, thats a duffel bag.

[nigelhoath]

I really do think that this thread is going beyond the foro norms and that there is serious danger of offense. There is just too much hidden inuendo and slights.

For the non-believers it may be fine to ridicule but for many the way of the pony is the only true path to the depth of enlightenment. One appreciates that there are those with different interpretations of the word: the sect of the side slung bagites; the switched on rightists, the upsidedown reacherists (with the obscure break away cult of the its4mybuddyists); but nonetheless each should be tolerant of the other.

One recalls the gentle tolerant Lord Cousteau who after the miracle of the flat champagne performed at ‘2 bar’ rose up surrounded by much escape of wind and gas to proclaim “you can lead a pony to water but always mount it from the side” – well he was pi**ed :)

[nigelhoath]

Sorry but I blame the economic downturn - the phone hasn't rung all day :(

[tony J]

Sorry but I blame the economic downturn - the phone hasn't rung all day :(
you don't work for BT customer services then...

[Gareth]

you don't work for BT customer services then...

Tony

Isn't that a controdiction of terms, BT & customer services in the same sentence?

Gareth

[kath2407]

I foudn that particular episode specifically confusing as during the segment we are all referring to they were going through a cave system. I remembr thinking to myself "I don't want to be near them when they clank their ylinder on the roof of the cave".

Regardless of where you choose to put your cylinder on a dive, I think that particular rig was a bit silly for an overhead environment.

K XX

[Richard Whitcombe]

The cave shot they showed they were both on manifold twins.

[Alan White]

Hello,

Have been watching the Oceans series and notice that when using a Pony cylinder some of the divers choose to attach the pony directly behind the main cylinder - what could be the reasons for this out of interest?

I assume it provides good balance on the vertical but would have though the horizontal balance would be quite off as the centre of gravity is moved well out from the body mass...(or have I mixed up the vertical/horizontal there - I'm sure you know what I mean...).

Any thoughts?

Cheers,

Gav.


Just to throw in a spanner in the works Gav,

Watched one of the mid episodes yesterday while doing my revision for my post gard course..don't tell the wife it does not involve watching the lovelly Tooni please!

Anyhow, theye were wearing it back mounted on the side of the cylinder in the episode when go into the black hole!

Like to help out like this. ;)

Have a nice day now :)

It does not matter where you wear the pony rig if it works for you, however it does matter if you don't build in the second level of cover apony gives you.

[Ron Evans]

I like to mount my pony from behind, my sheep is too fast:D. its ok i can say that, i'm Welsh.:D

No you can't say that - I'm Welsh too:)

Have you tried a cam band on the sheep?

[Ron Evans]

Gav I had a pool session yesterday to try different pony set ups. The instructors suggested as an option a central piggy back but pointed out the problems: weight to back and difficult to lie kit down.

In the end I had the pony mounted to the right moving 2 kilos on my belt to the left. When I first put it on I felt the weight pulling me back (not a problem after a few seconds getting used to it) and imagine it would have been worse piggied central for the reasons you suggested.

But in the water it gave me zero problems. Didn't really notice it. The bigger issue was getting all the extra tubes sorted. Sadly with other kit to try two hours wasn't enough to get everything changed as I wanted but with one more session I should be there :)

When I first put pony on, to the left shoudler and without moving weights around to compensate, it felt awkward and out of balance, but after a few weeks, I stopped noticing it. Perhaps wherever you put it will feel odd to begin with, so that you can only tell what you prefer after several dives.

Like everything else, there is no "right" way, and everything else is wrong, but it's just what works for you.

Don't be afraid to ask more questions - we all try to help, in different ways.

[Mike Halligan]

No you can't say that - I'm Welsh too:)

Have you tried a cam band on the sheep?

Sheep? Cam?
Strewth, he said it was Oz when all the time he must have gone to Kiwi.

[Ron Evans]

Tony

Isn't that a controdiction of terms, BT & customer services in the same sentence?

Gareth

No, it's an oxymoron.

[johnyhog]

c'mon we mutton talk like this its baaaaahd:o