View Full Version : Basic Nitrox
Hi folks,
Just a quick question.
On another forum I have just been informed that the BSAC basic Nitrox course does not actually require any dives.
Can someone confirm whether this is the case or point me to where I can check it out?
Thanks
Chris B
Hi folks,
Just a quick question.
On another forum I have just been informed that the BSAC basic Nitrox course does not actually require any dives.
Can someone confirm whether this is the case or point me to where I can check it out?
Thanks
Chris B
Hi Chris.
That's correct. Syllabus is at the link below.
Personally I think that Nitrox is A Good Thing and in a few years it won't be long until we're starting trainees on Nitrox. As long as the bottom is more than the MOD, and the instructor checks the mix, then Nitrox can only make the dive safer.
Laters,
Janos
nick kay
04-03-2005, 15:01
Personal opinion...
We ought to drop the "basic" nitrox course and allow people to do the theory day of the "advanced" and then if they want to do the "advanced", just do the practical later.
One other thing... I thought we'd dropped the "basic" name and now called it "nitrox" so as not to put it down
Hi folks,
Just a quick question.
On another forum I have just been informed that the BSAC basic Nitrox course does not actually require any dives.
Absolutely correct, and Nitrox Diver is open to all from qualified Ocean Divers with a few dives experience, to 'established' Divers wanting to know a little more. Nitrox Diver blows away the misconcepion that Nitrox is for techies and provides a useful, if limited, ticket. The course is ideal for running in a branch during the Winter - Unfortunately BSAC do not appear to have capitalised on that.
Can someone confirm whether this is the case or point me to where I can check it out?
The Nitrox Diver sylabus is available in the Technical Services section of the web site.
I have read your concerns on the other forum but do not agree with them. A Sport Diver should already have the requisite buoyancy skills for the Nitrox Diver qualification - and will have already been assessed a couple of times. Ocean Divers are restricted to marshaled diving. I would expect a marshal to know enough about Nitrox to help the least experienced avoid bad decisions. At the level that Nitrox Diver teaches, Nitrox is just another flavour of air with diffent depth and time limits. Of course if you have marshals that think Nitrox is difficult, you need to get them on the Nitrox Diver course:-)
Absolutely correct, and Nitrox Diver is open to all from qualified Ocean Divers with a few dives experience, to 'established' Divers wanting to know a little more. Nitrox Diver blows away the misconcepion that Nitrox is for techies and provides a useful, if limited, ticket. The course is ideal for running in a branch during the Winter - Unfortunately BSAC do not appear to have capitalised on that.
My club has just done the Basic Nitrox course in branch over 3 nights.We had 9 on the course and it was very informative. All passed.
Would recomend to all out there to just mention the benifits of nirtox to other club members and then ask who wants to do the course.
Basic Nitrox is open to anyone who is an Ocean Diver .
Advanced Nitrox is open to Sports Diver + 20 open water dives.
Combined Nitrox is open to Sports Diver + 20 open water dives.
the combined course is basic and advanced rolled into one , but this is a two day course as you have to do some open water training . This is the same for the advanced course.
The basic is all theory .
Neil R
Chaumont 1149
Gareth Woodruff
06-03-2005, 12:04
Our branch has just ran a combined Nitrox course with help from our Area Cach, 2 of our OWI's assisted on it, so can now teach the course themeslves.
It means we have the facility to teach in house and intend to run a Basic Nitrox course in the future. We all enjoyed it, so I would recommend doing it that way.
Cheers,
Gareth.
Absolutely correct, and Nitrox Diver is open to all from qualified Ocean Divers with a few dives experience, to 'established' Divers wanting to know a little more. Nitrox Diver blows away the misconcepion that Nitrox is for techies and provides a useful, if limited, ticket. The course is ideal for running in a branch during the Winter - Unfortunately BSAC do not appear to have capitalised on that.
My club has just done the Basic Nitrox course in branch over 3 nights.We had 9 on the course and it was very informative. All passed.
Would recomend to all out there to just mention the benifits of nirtox to other club members and then ask who wants to do the course.
Basic Nitrox is open to anyone who is an Ocean Diver .
Advanced Nitrox is open to Sports Diver + 20 open water dives.
Combined Nitrox is open to Sports Diver + 20 open water dives.
the combined course is basic and advanced rolled into one , but this is a two day course as you have to do some open water training . This is the same for the advanced course.
The basic is all theory .
Neil R
Chaumont 1149
Mike Rowley
07-03-2005, 18:12
What if we incorporate basic nitrox as part of Ocean Diver training? After all, isn't air the dangerous gas?
Cheers
Mike
Personal opinion...
We ought to drop the "basic" nitrox course and allow people to do the theory day of the "advanced" and then if they want to do the "advanced", just do the practical later.
One other thing... I thought we'd dropped the "basic" name and now called it "nitrox" so as not to put it down
Folks,
I stand corrected.
My initial reaction to seeing that Nitrox courses could be taught without seeing a diver in the water (other forum) was one of concern; Nitrox can be construed as safer (reducing PPN2) IF the student has reasonable depth control. If a student is taking a course with a new instructor and neither know each other, then it seemed that the safety factor may well work the other way (reduced the margin for error pre-tox)
However, having followed the two strings, I would concede that on balance, it is probably safer to use it than not.
Thanks for the input.
Chris B
Neil Carter
08-03-2005, 07:25
Hi Mike,
This couldn't now be under preliminary discussion - - could it????
I seem to remember posting a suggestion to this effect two or three years ago, with the suggestion that maybe we could lead from the front on this one, bit late for that now, but as you say, air is the "dangerous gas" so surely any minimisation of risk needs to be considered.
IMVHO arguments about cost or knowledge and skill loading are non-sequiteurs. Firstly, diving is an expensive, read non-cost effective, pastime from the outset, and it's our choice whether to spend our hard-earned in this way, or any other. Secondly, we already include basic physics and diving physiology in entry level training, and then examine this knowledge, so why not push the knowledge base that little bit further to include basic Nitrox. Our Trainees would know no different, and would take it on board as received wisdom, just as now they need to understand air diving and decompression limits and penalties. The only difference would/should be safer entry level diving, which is not a bad trade-off in these litiginous times.
Best
NC
What if we incorporate basic nitrox as part of Ocean Diver training? After all, isn't air the dangerous gas?
Cheers
Mike Rowley
08-03-2005, 07:49
Hi Mike,
This couldn't now be under preliminary discussion - - could it????
Hi Neil
Lets call it work in progress. Descision has already been made.
Cheers
Mike
Neil Carter
08-03-2005, 08:57
:=Hi Mike,
:=
:=This couldn't now be under preliminary discussion - - could it????
Hi Neil
Lets call it work in progress. Descision has already been made.
Cheers
Mike
Hi Mike,
If our eponymous List Dad will let me get away with this, all I can say is, bloody marvellous, I AM SO IMPRESSED, after so many years of being dragged screaming and shouting into even playing catch-up with twenty first century diving needs and technology
My sincere congratulations to whoever, or to all of the whoevers, who have had the enthusiasm to push this forwards. This is not the time to look back with, indeed there need to be, no recriminations. Just a desire to move forwards to actual implementation as soon as is practicable, with as much emphasis as is also practicable that ideally Nitrox SHOULD be the ONLY gas of choice for Entry Level diving.
Just a thought, but as we already set mandatory depth limits per Diver Grade, or PPO2 and O2 mix limits, should we perhaps grasp the hot potato of mandating Nitrox for Entry Level diving?? Courage of convictions etc??
Best
NC
nick kay
08-03-2005, 09:17
Just a thought, but as we already set mandatory depth limits per Diver Grade, or PPO2 and O2 mix limits, should we perhaps grasp the hot potato of mandating Nitrox for Entry Level diving?? Courage of convictions etc??
It'd be nice to think we could. However, we'd end up in the same (relative) argument as for Boat Handling and clubs not possessing RHIBs
IMHO, I think we should all (whatever diver grade or instructor grade) push for our own club(s) to install Nitrox. Its not (that) expensive:
1. Upgrade the compressor (additional filter if doesn't already exist)
2. Purchase an O2 analyser
3. Hire 2 (or more) O2 cylinders
4. Purchase the O2 decant kit
5. Get the necessary number of people qualified for blending
Our club has done the above and:
1. The club pays for the O2 cylinder hire
2. Nitrox Club Members pay an extra ?15 per year and get FREE Nitrox fills for the year (air fills are free anyway)
3. At the end of the year we look at the cost of O2 for that year divide by the number of Nitrox members and set the "nitrox levy" for the next year
OK, it cost extra to have your cylinders O2 serviced annuallu, but ?15 for unlimited Nitrox...
Just need the club to now put in a He bank...
Keith Lawrence(BSAC)
08-03-2005, 10:03
If our eponymous List Dad will let me get away with this...
Oi! I heard that. I deeply resemble that remark ;-)
K
David Walker
08-03-2005, 10:51
Just a thought, but as we already set mandatory depth limits per Diver Grade, or PPO2 and O2 mix limits, should we perhaps grasp the hot potato of mandating Nitrox for Entry Level diving?? Courage of convictions etc??
Not practical at the minute - it'd be nice if it was easy, but at this moment in time it's not. Biggest single example I can think of: Stoney Cove! We do all of our training there for Ocean Diver - if you can get me a nitrox fill there on a busy summer weekend (or any weekend for that matter then i'd love to use it, but it just takes too long. Then what happens when we go abroad, say on a Red Sea liveaboard - not all of those can do nitrox.
Encourage it certainly, but it'll be a long time before you can reasonably require it. Something like that would need support of every agency otherwise we'll find that we can't dive in some places due to the absence of nitrox.
The other thing to consider is whether it's actually worth it. With all the extra money people will inevitably have to spend to dive on Nitrox, could that money be better spent on something else that would better enhance safety? The safety margins on doing a 20min 6m dive is HUGE already, should we be worrying about trying to make that safer when for example clubs may be better off spending the money on another O2 kit for their divers who are diving that bit deeper and longer? Something best left to the individual clubs to decide I think!
David
Adrian Kelland
08-03-2005, 11:01
:=Just a thought, but as we already set mandatory depth limits per Diver Grade, or PPO2 and O2 mix limits, should we perhaps grasp the hot potato of mandating Nitrox for Entry Level diving?? Courage of convictions etc??
Not practical at the minute - it'd be nice if it was easy, but at this moment in time it's not. Biggest single example I can think of: Stoney Cove! We do all of our training there for Ocean Diver - if you can get me a nitrox fill there on a busy summer weekend (or any weekend for that matter then i'd love to use it, but it just takes too long. Then what happens when we go abroad, say on a Red Sea liveaboard - not all of those can do nitrox.
Encourage it certainly, but it'll be a long time before you can reasonably require it. Something like that would need support of every agency otherwise we'll find that we can't dive in some places due to the absence of nitrox.
The other thing to consider is whether it's actually worth it. With all the extra money people will inevitably have to spend to dive on Nitrox, could that money be better spent on something else that would better enhance safety? The safety margins on doing a 20min 6m dive is HUGE already, should we be worrying about trying to make that safer when for example clubs may be better off spending the money on another O2 kit for their divers who are diving that bit deeper and longer? Something best left to the individual clubs to decide I think!
David
You would have thought Stoney would have the throughput for a membrane supply of nitrox. 5-10k depending on existing kit.
Adrian
:=Just a thought, but as we already set mandatory depth limits per Diver Grade, or PPO2 and O2 mix limits, should we perhaps grasp the hot potato of mandating Nitrox for Entry Level diving?? Courage of convictions etc??
Hmmm. Can you honestly say that you think diving on air at 10m is dangerous? I can't. Nitrox most definitely has benefits and I would like to see all Sport Divers using Nitrox initially rather than making deco stops, but to say air is dangerous is perhaps 'hysterical'
It'd be nice to think we could. However, we'd end up in the same (relative) argument as for Boat Handling and clubs not possessing RHIBs
My concern is that making Nitrox training mandatory inflates the price of learning to dive for little discernable benefit. To put our training cylinders in O2 service would cost an additional ?200 quid a year for instance which would have to be passed on to trainees in increased kit fees. During the early stages breathing rate tends to be the limiting factor, not deco obligation.
What I would like to see is a Nitrox module tacked onto the end of Ocean Diver as a pre-requisite for Sports. So Nitrox does not become a hurdle to learning to dive but is provided as a required skill when the need arises. I would like to see all Nitrox qualified NQI/TIs capable of teaching this module without regional approval. I would like to see the requirement to buy BSAC Nitrox tables scrapped.
IMHO, I think we should all (whatever diver grade or instructor grade) push for our own club(s) to install Nitrox. Its not (that) expensive:
Been there, done that. The logistical problems of handling Js of O2 are hard enough when you are trying to cater for 60 to 100 members...and then the council come along and say not on our property! I have not quite given up but plan B requires a great deal more cash.
My concern is that making Nitrox training mandatory inflates the price of learning to dive for little discernable benefit. To put our training cylinders in O2 service would cost an additional ?200 quid a year for instance which would have to be passed on to trainees in increased kit fees. During the early stages breathing rate tends to be the limiting factor, not deco obligation.
Almost.
If Nitrox did become the gas of choice for entry level then an
awful lot of stations will need basic mixes.
That would IMO mean that 32% or 36% would be in the now
Nitrox bank (not airbank). So as it's premixed your cylnders
can have ExNx pumped without being O2 clean thus saving all
that dosh.
There ae possibities of economies of scale and again with so
many using it at lower percentages DnAx would become more
popular.
The actual off-gas advantages as we all know are limited at
10m etc, but there are other benefits such as not being so
tired. This is a major bonus when cramming a course over a
weekend. Better to have more alert and attentive students
than dopy ones!
So yes it is feasable in a club enviroment, but whether it
is that advantageous really depends on the demographic of the
club.
How about this for an idea.
As Ocean diver is the entry level for Basic Nitrox and
they are not allowed to go past 20m on an Ocean Diver course,
the obvious solution is to allow Nitrox in basic training only
if the NQI is also a Nitrox Instructor.
Not only would this allow newbies to use Nitrox, but get more
NQI's up to Nx Inst. status. Within a short time not only
would you have more Instructors, but many of the current
CI's, ADI's, etc. would also get there a**e in gear and move
forward.
TerryH
:=
:=My concern is that making Nitrox training mandatory inflates the price of learning to dive for little discernable benefit. To put our training cylinders in O2 service would cost an additional ?200 quid a year for instance which would have to be passed on to trainees in increased kit fees. During the early stages breathing rate tends to be the limiting factor, not deco obligation.
:=
I would humbley suggest that the added safety factor does not relate to the deco obligation of a 6m 20min dive.
But to the tendancy of some new students to dive a delightful textbook saw tooth profile. Also to those students who take the greatest delight in surfacing feet first in their nice new drysuits!
Whilst we as instructor take great pains to try to stop our delightful charges doing this, it does happen. The added safety factor of having the student on Nitrox would significantly reduce the risk of any post dive complications.
Most instructors breath Nitrox whilst teaching (especially for multiple ascents, CBL, AAS), due to the likleyhood of saw tooth profiles, bouncies etc. It would allow us to extend the same safety policy to our students, without critisism.
That just a thought!
It also has the added advantage of introducing new divers to Nitrox early in their training. Hopefully they will adopt it as the diving gas of choice as they progress through their diving qualifications - rather than treat as some sort of magic gas for techie's!
Gareth
I'm in favour of everyone using Nitrox for every dive, well, every dive above 40m anyway. However there are still a few people who don't see the need, because they've never used it themselves.
Bringing in Nitrox training at an early age will make it the norm, and then then as these divers move up it will become more and more usual.
I wouldn't make it compulsory though. The practicalities of getting a Nitrox fill (takes too long) mean that I tend to only dive Nitrox for the first dive of a weekend.
Laters,
Janos
Mike Rowley
08-03-2005, 17:21
Hi Neil
Thanks for the support. The BSAC nitrox courses are currently under a review headed by Mark Mumford under Jeff Reed (Head of BSAC Technical). The current plan is to make it an option rather than mandatory at Ocean Diver level. To make it mandatory would lack practicality at the moment simply because the ability to pump nitrox is not fully universal yet and in some countries where BSAC have branches it is not allowed.
Cheers
Mike
If our eponymous List Dad will let me get away with this, all I can say is, bloody marvellous, I AM SO IMPRESSED, after so many years of being dragged screaming and shouting into even playing catch-up with twenty first century diving needs and technology
My sincere congratulations to whoever, or to all of the whoevers, who have had the enthusiasm to push this forwards. This is not the time to look back with, indeed there need to be, no recriminations. Just a desire to move forwards to actual implementation as soon as is practicable, with as much emphasis as is also practicable that ideally Nitrox SHOULD be the ONLY gas of choice for Entry Level diving.
Just a thought, but as we already set mandatory depth limits per Diver Grade, or PPO2 and O2 mix limits, should we perhaps grasp the hot potato of mandating Nitrox for Entry Level diving?? Courage of convictions etc??
Best
NC
The current plan is to make it an option rather than mandatory at Ocean Diver level.
Is there any word on who will be allowed to teach this module?
Best bit of news I heard for a while. Well done those involved.
David Walker
09-03-2005, 14:06
You would have thought Stoney would have the throughput for a membrane supply of nitrox. 5-10k depending on existing kit.
When we were thinking about getting a new compressor last year, the salesman I was talking to was telling me how Stoney use their compressors, and were actually getting a new membrane compressor... that was about 9 months ago, so no idea if its still in the pipeline, if Stoney changed their mind, or the bloke was just trying to convince me that they were really good compressors...
David
Mike Rowley
09-03-2005, 17:51
Is there any word on who will be allowed to teach this module?
I haven't seen any detail on that as yet.
Mike
Helen Butcher
09-03-2005, 19:32
I'm in favour of everyone using Nitrox for every dive, well, every dive above 40m anyway. However there are still a few people who don't see the need, because they've never used it themselves.
Bringing in Nitrox training at an early age will make it the norm, and then then as these divers move up it will become more and more usual.
I'm really glad ocean divers can do the Nitrox diver course - i'd just qualified (July) when the opportunity to do a Nitrox course came up (August), and i got qualified on the "devil gas".
I didn't use the qualification till i'd got a cylinder o2 cleaned but then tried it in november. I got DCI from this dive, but am now allowed back in the water, but only on nitrox! If i hadn't qualified when i did i'd be completely out of the water till i got my PFO fixed, or waited for a course to come up... I am now diving on 40%EANx every dive incuding the pool - though i get some strange looks for that - but i am not taking any chances till i get that shunt fixed!
I feel much more full of energy on the dive and after, and it helps build in part of that safety margin i need!
Quite a lot of club members are qualified on nitrox now (including the DO, TO, Chairman), and it is now an accepted "normal" to dive nitrox on our sunday club dives.
Helen
vBulletin v3.5.4, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.