Entonox

[Steve Knight]

I know that Entonox should not be given to a diver who is off gassing but how do you stop it being administered if you are alone with no indication that you have been diving and in no state to refuse it? Are there cards you can carry or tags that you can wear, if so where do I find one?

[Nigel Hewitt]

I know that Entonox should not be given to a diver who is off gassing but how do you stop it being administered if you are alone with no indication that you have been diving and in no state to refuse it? Are there cards you can carry or tags that you can wear, if so where do I find one?
I queried this with a friend, who is an ambulance paramedic, and he was well informed about diving and divers injuries. I suspect it isn't a problem except in a few isolated cases as these guys are usually red hot on their contra's. I think the stuff would only be a problem if you are still well gased up (or bent).

[PeteM]

I queried this with a friend, who is an ambulance paramedic, and he was well informed about diving and divers injuries. I suspect it isn't a problem except in a few isolated cases as these guys are usually red hot on their contra's. I think the stuff would only be a problem if you are still well gased up (or bent).

Disagree - I was speaking to a paramedic at Stoney, he was telling me he is a regular there. He did not know not to give Entonox to a friend who had just broken his ankle slipping over on the boat ramp

[Nigel Hewitt]

Disagree - I was speaking to a paramedic at Stoney, he was telling me he is a regular there. He did not know not to give Entonox to a friend who had just broken his ankle slipping over on the boat ramp
Interesting. My guy said it was routine knowledge.
Perhaps this is because we are Coastal.

[Fiona]

you have been diving and in no state to refuse it?

What condition are you thinking of ? Isn't entenox used as a pain killer ? if I am in that much pain I'll take my chance with the entenox or ask if there is another option, if I am out of it then I probably don't need it.


Are there cards you can carry or tags that you can wear, if so where do I find one?

A few years ago there was a link to a website for Dog Tags, I bought one you can have printed on them whatever you like I had "No Entenox" printed on one of them along with contact details, I drive to dives on my own and will occasionally wear it on my way home.

[IainC]

Fiona..

What condition are you thinking of ? Isn't entenox used as a pain killer ? if I am in that much pain I'll take my chance with the entenox or ask if there is another option, if I am out of it then I probably don't need it.

If you are bent then entonox will likely make it worse (it adds Nitrogen to your blood in the form of Nitrous-Oxide encouraging larger/more bubbles and spoiling off-gassing).

If you are in pain due to DCI - entonox will make it worse, not better. Also you won't be getting O2 which is better first aid for this condition.

If you are in pain for a different injury (fell over and broke your leg on the slipway after a dive, for example) - getting entonox might bring on a bend.

You do not want to 'take your chances' with either of these. Other (strong if needed) painkillers can be used instead.

This should be made clear in your training..

Iain.

[MSutcliffe]

I know that Entonox should not be given to a diver who is off gassing but how do you stop it being administered if you are alone with no indication that you have been diving and in no state to refuse it? Are there cards you can carry or tags that you can wear, if so where do I find one?

Basically - you can't in the situation you are thinking of.

however - for a paramedic to administer Entonox to you, you have to be concious, sitting up, breathing for yourself, and complaining of a fairly significant pain in a specifc location. It is my understanding that a paramedic would not usually administer entonox to someone who was acutely confused, disorientated, or very agitated.

Thus, I don't really think you shoudl ever be in a position such that a paramedic can administer Entonox without your consent for them to do so, and as a diver it is your responsibility to decline.

The more worrying time is if you have to have an Anaesthetic for your broken ankle - in which case you shoudl probably tell the Anaesthetist - as they may not know about the Nitrous Oxide/bend relationship, and many (especially older) anaesthetists will use Nitrous Oxide routinely.

[Fiona]

other (strong if needed) painkillers can be used instead.


Iain.

Which is what I said. Of course it was made clear in my training, even to the point of if someone has an incident writing on the casualties forehead that no entenox should be given.

If I am driving back from a dive, and suffer a RTI and I am able to communicate with the rescue services then I will inform them, if I can't inform them then I probably won't be receiving entenox anyway.

As I mentioned I sometimes wear dogtags on the way home, although now it comes down to do I remember to put them on and what diving I have been doing.

[Steve Knight]

Its comforting to know that if I was in no state to refuse Entonox a Paramedic would no administer it anyway

Thanks fro the replies

[Dave Woodward]

Having been a recipient on a couple of occasions, you do have to be concious, and you tend to have to hold the mask so that it will fall off before you have too much.

You can try and prop your elbow against something to stop it falling off :)

Dave

[IainC]

Which is what I said. Of course it was made clear in my training,

Sorry, must read posts more carefully..

[Maria CM]

I hadn't ever heard of this so thank you. Very logical when you think about it. I shall file that away in my knowledge-bank

I have very fond memories of entonox and went through four cylinders in one go once. They wouldn't let me have any more - there are quotas apparently:rolleyes:

best wishes,

Maria

[MikeTickle]

Interesting. My guy said it was routine knowledge.
Perhaps this is because we are Coastal.


Yep. I hear the training got stream lined and no entonox to divers is not needed for most folks so it now only gets covered in passing.
On the bright side if you are not screaming in pain (e.g. you're passed out after an RTA) they will not admin pain killers so no need to worry.

I guess it is another reason not to dive while the Mrs is pregnant - dive in the morning, delivery suite in the afternoon with entanox flowing.

Mike

[MSutcliffe]

The legal limit for the concentration of Nitrous Oxide in enclosed spaces - eg operating rooms, and delivery rooms, is 25 parts per million.

I'm not at all certain that the concentration in delivery rooms is that strictly monitored, but since the women only use the gas for a few minutes, then stop, then do it again - it is unlikely to be an especially high concentration.

I don't think the concentrations found in delivery rooms are likely to be able to be implicated in exacerbations of DCI.

[Vic]

I'm not at all certain that the concentration in delivery rooms is that strictly monitored, but since the women only use the gas for a few minutes, then stop, then do it again - it is unlikely to be an especially high concentration.

Heh. You know the advice they give out about not leaning over the bed while a woman's on entonox? Well, they're right.

I was off my face...

I don't think the concentrations found in delivery rooms are likely to be able to be implicated in exacerbations of DCI.

Do we have any info on what sort of concentrations could cause an issue?

Vic.

[Maria CM]

I'm not at all certain that the concentration in delivery rooms is that strictly monitored, but since the women only use the gas for a few minutes:confused: , then stop, then do it again - it is unlikely to be an especially high concentration.


How about my four cylinders then...:eek:

best wishes,

Maria

[JamesW]

Entonox is self administering so you need to be conscious, so if your were in a RTA then you can tell the EMS that you are a diver and been diving.
I can't see any problems.
:D

[MSutcliffe]

How about my four cylinders then...:eek:

The conentration in the cylinder is obviously a touch higher.

Your not... not one of the mad ones are you?????

--
Martin.

[Maria CM]

The conentration in the cylinder is obviously a touch higher.

Your not... not one of the mad ones are you?????

--
Martin.
:o Errrr - yes

[Scuba Diva]

I guess it is another reason not to dive while the Mrs is pregnant - dive in the morning, delivery suite in the afternoon with entanox flowing.

I'm pretty sure from my medical training that that's meant to be for the mother to be not those observing!!! :)