O2 Re certification.

[Gary Cameron]

Can someone remind me on the re-certification process when it is 3 years since qualifing on a O2 course. This is aimed at Instructor re-certification.

It is my understanding that an O2 Instructor would have to "observe" on an O2 course rather than re-apply for the course.

Thanks

Gary Cameron
York BSAC

York BSAC.

[nick kay]

Hi Gary

My understanding of the situation is as follows:

1. There is no longer a "central register" and that instructors don't need to be "certified"
2. You can teach O2 if:
2a. You're an OWI and you've done the O2 course, or
2b. You've become an instructor under the new DTS, i.e. CD/SD/DL/OWI - in other words you did O2 as part of your (CD) diver training
3. Because of the above, there (technically) is no need to re-train
HOWEVER...
4. Theory and Practise are constantly changing
5. Personally, I'd want the instructor to know AND look like they know, both theory and practise

[Gary Cameron]

Thanks Nick

I went through the approval process four years ago. Having done my original O2 course in 93. Therefore had to do refresher training.
Reading what you say and looking at the Instructor notes I think I was getting confused with the re-fresher training prior to approval. This states the 3 year rule. I was assumming that the re-fresher thing had to be done every 3 years even after approval.

I conclude (unless advised otherwise) that once approved then re-fresher training is not required. (Technically) Although probably good to have.

If I wanted to re-fresher training and through the regional team would that be "observe" or "assist" or what.

[Gary Cameron]

Second question.

What is the situation with a CI who has done the O2 course 5 -10 years ago. And not approved using the old method.

I assume then that they can now teach on an O2 course. (But not run one)

[Mike Halligan]

Second question.

What is the situation with a CI who has done the O2 course 5 -10 years ago. And not approved using the old method.

I assume then that they can now teach on an O2 course. (But not run one)

Gary,

IMHO, this needs to be referred to HQ.

What would be your view - as a prospective student - if this person who, despite opportunity throughout a 5-10 year period, had nevertheless not become approved to teach O2 Admin and who has not personally experienced the current fully-integrated OD/SD/DL/AD Diver Training Programme, proposed to convey his/her vast and various skills/knowledge of this crucial lifesaving technique to you?

Only thinking aloud, I guess I would run a mile and therefore I do feel this is one for the experts,

Mike

[nick kay]

(Personally), if you wanted to teach on a regional course, I think you'd be asked to do an assist/instruct (as an OWI with O2 there's no difference).

The lead instructor (course boss) would then feed back constructive criticism and (hopefully) encouragement.

Probably the best way of "refreshing" as you're "exposed" to other instructors who've taught the subject recently and a ditto that for the course boss...

There's an 02 course running this Saturday with 29 (I believe) students!!! Give Kev/Judy a call and see if you can get involved (if you haven't already)...

There's also a PRM course running on Sunday with 33 students...

[nick kay]

1. Totally agree with Mike - they need to retrain
2. Logically, they're not OK to instruct it (waits for huge flame war).
Think about it...
- Under the "old scheme", they needed to "refresh" after 3 years - they didn't so they're not current
- They didn't train under the "new scheme" so they're not elligible to instruct it

In any case, they're out of date / out of practise...

[Gary Cameron]

Gary,

IMHO, this needs to be referred to HQ.

What would be your view - as a prospective student - if this person who, despite opportunity throughout a 5-10 year period, had nevertheless not become approved to teach O2 Admin and who has not personally experienced the current fully-integrated OD/SD/DL/AD Diver Training Programme, proposed to convey his/her vast and various skills/knowledge of this crucial lifesaving technique to you?

Only thinking aloud, I guess I would run a mile and therefore I do feel this is one for the experts,

Mike

Mike

I agree that this needs to be referred to HQ. I will email them directly.
I do think that first aid skills should be refreshed at least every 3 years. (and diving skills to some degree)
I dont think students should be put in a position that they have to evaluate the instructors capability and knowledge. They really dont have the background skills. They will probably have a better idea after they have participated in the course. Therefore it would be nice is HQ took steps to get feedback from them.
We (BSAC) should be providing a course with the same standards througout, whether within a branch or as a regional offering.

Even in the older method where prospective O2 Instructors had to "Observe" then "assist", there was not a fantastic audit trail.
Now there seems to be complete lack of co-ordination. There does not appear to even be a guidance statement suggesting that re-fresher training is advisable.
The CI thing was an example, (of what I thought may be a worst case scenario) but there are plenty of Instructors out there who are going to be in the same position. (I guess)

My feeling is that in the situation with SDC's like this, we have now got an over complicated system that seems to be left to self regulation. That usually does not work.

Thanks

Gary

[Gary Cameron]

1. Totally agree with Mike - they need to retrain
2. Logically, they're not OK to instruct it (waits for huge flame war).
Think about it...
- Under the "old scheme", they needed to "refresh" after 3 years - they didn't so they're not current
- They didn't train under the "new scheme" so they're not elligible to instruct it

In any case, they're out of date / out of practise...
Nick
The CI and O2 years ago was just an example. However there are many folk with less obvious differences.
I will take up with HQ. The path to re-certification/re-fresher training needs to be totally unambiguous.

Thanks

Gary

[Gary Cameron]

1. Totally agree with Mike - they need to retrain
2. Logically, they're not OK to instruct it (waits for huge flame war).
Think about it...
- Under the "old scheme", they needed to "refresh" after 3 years - they didn't so they're not current
- They didn't train under the "new scheme" so they're not elligible to instruct it

In any case, they're out of date / out of practise...

Nick

I agree they should "re-fresh" however the old scheme and new scheme element is irrelevant.
To instruct on an O2 course OR teach the O2 element to Dive Leader candidates (under the new scheme), then the Instructor must be NQI (CI or OWI) and have previously attended a BSAC O2 course. That is what the O2 syllabus states. As far as I am aware there is nothing about re-fresher training dictated by HQ as a requirements. Therefore a CI who has done the O2 course 10 years + CAN teach on an O2 course.

I am not trying to dermine the ethics here, just the rules.

I will email the technical chaps at HQ.

Thanks

Gary

[Mike Halligan]

Gary,

This one puzzled me for quite a while, until I started thinking about it as follows ..............

I do think that first aid skills should be refreshed at least every 3 years. (and diving skills to some degree)
Under the former SDC-based DTP, that was required of all first aid instructors (O2 Admin is first aid).

I dont think students should be put in a position that they have to evaluate the instructors capability and knowledge.
They don't "have to", they do it naturally as a matter of course.

They really dont have the background skills.
But that never stopped me taking a view of the adequacy of my teachers whilst at school.

They will probably have a better idea after they have participated in the course. Therefore it would be nice is HQ took steps to get feedback from them.
Your premise is that they aren't fit to judge, and you're probably correct.

We (BSAC) should be providing a course with the same standards througout, whether within a branch or as a regional offering.
We do, the materials are there for us to use and the DO/Coach must be satisfied as to the adequacy of instruction.

Even in the older method where prospective O2 Instructors had to "Observe" then "assist", there was not a fantastic audit trail.
Oh yes there was. SDCs were pre-registered, Instructors and Bosses had to be accredited.

Now there seems to be complete lack of co-ordination. There does not appear to even be a guidance statement suggesting that re-fresher training is advisable.
It is a part of the DTP which may be taught
either by a NQI who studied the subject under that regime
or by one trained and experienced by another means.

The CI thing was an example, (of what I thought may be a worst case scenario) but there are plenty of Instructors out there who are going to be in the same position. (I guess)
The DO must be satisfied as to the adequacy of instruction.

My feeling is that in the situation with SDC's like this, we have now got an over complicated system that seems to be left to self regulation. That usually does not work.
AIUI, these are DTP elements. A DO is welcome to combine DTP elements into half-day, full day or multi-day events as desired.

HTH

Mike