View Full Version : Tony Backhurst itinerary altered on trip
HepworthS
24-10-2008, 12:59
Four of us recently went on a 'Simply the Best' RedSea liveaboard trip organised through Tony Backhurst. Quote: [The itinerary focuses on the reef systems of the Brothers and Daedalus].
Bad weather reduced our option, but when we were diving at Daedalus looking for big fish, the rest of the group voted to leave in favour of shallow reef near land. This was 'Simply Not The Best' and was a deviation from the itinerary that we had paid over a grand each for. It transpired that a number of the group were very inexperienced and did not want to dive in deep water with sharks etc. - so why were they on the trip?
Has anyone else been on a RedSea liveaboard where the majority of the group has voted to deviate from the itinerary? Should this be allowed to happen? It is analogous to going on safari to see lions and some of the group voting to go to the beach instead - which just wouldn't happen. I should point out that safety concerns were not a factor in this decision making.
The result: animosity amongst the group, ruined holiday, diving that could have been shore based.
Sound familiar?
Steve
How inexperience was inexperienced ?
TB used to advertise southern redsea for divers with more than 50 dives.
I would also be a little miffed if someone opted for shallower reefs as I think the Simply the Best route is a cracking trip.
Simply the Best is an advanced itinerary and divers are required to have a minimum of 50 dives. The reefs descend to great depths and the warm waters suit technical divers. Night diving is prohibited in the Northern Marine Park. Drifting on currents, diving can be fast paced and an SMB is essential.
Has anyone else been on a RedSea liveaboard where the majority of the group has voted to deviate from the itinerary?
Yes, about two weeks ago in fact.
Also simply the best, but with Blue O two.
I see no problems with this at all.
In my case it was put to a vote because the weather wasn't looking good for the return trip to the Brothers (we'd already dived little brother ealier in the week) from Elfinstone.
We had the choice of making the crossing and possibly not dive, or head in shore and dive the Salem express and get an extra night dive.
Maybe in your case the reason for deviating from the itinerary wasn't as valid.
However if the boat hadn't gone with the majority view, would we now have 20 people from your boat complaining because thier views had been disregarded?
;)
Andy Moll (BSAC Council)
24-10-2008, 14:19
There is always more than one way to see the same situation:
1. Would say you have grounds for compensation if as you say the balance of the group were not up for doing the diving and didn’t meet the perquisites of an experienced trip, IF this is how it is advertised.
2. don’t know all of your situation but another angle on your post is
The weather was going to be such that had you pushed ahead with the plan then the diving would have not been suitable and the whole boat would have been unhappy
Have to say the pragmatist in me says that very few trips I have been on have ever stuck to a plan completely because weather and people and events change it.
However from your post if I was in your position I would be penning a politely worded email of complaint to TB
Eddie Clamp
24-10-2008, 14:33
However from your post if I was in your position I would be penning a politely worded email of complaint to TB
I agree! You must write/email TB telling of your complaints right away. No good sitting and thinking about it. :rolleyes:
I have been on trips where we were asked whether we wanted to predominently dive wrecks or reefs.
I was on this trip to Sudan: http://www.bsac.com/diverreports.asp?itemid=624&itemTitle=Sudan+%2D+Sudan+on+Royal+Emperor§ion=1242§ionTitle=Middle+East&cat=&new=
We were sent back from Cairo as the flight to Sudan had been cancelled. Six very sad divers returned to UK. An email to TB sorted it out and we went back a month later at no further cost and had a wonderful week's diving (well the four who could get the time off did).
Eddie
Has anyone else been on a RedSea liveaboard where the majority of the group has voted to deviate from the itinerary? Should this be allowed to happen? It is analogous to going on safari to see lions and some of the group voting to go to the beach instead - which just wouldn't happen. I should point out that safety concerns were not a factor in this decision making.
The result: animosity amongst the group, ruined holiday, diving that could have been shore based.
Sound familiar?
Steve
I have have been on liveaboard trips where the group has voted not to do the itinary.
When offered "do you want an uncomfortable boat ride over night or do the northern red sea" most voted to stay in the north.
Unfortunately democracy is not fair.
Last year we were supposed to do brothers and elphinstone and the guide said shall we stay on the brothers as we have lots of sharks and last week elphonstone wasn't any good. ? I voted with the majority as I was having a good time.
So in conclusion, errr..
Play the "complain about my holiday game" (i think point 1 is the most important).
This is not about this incident , but a formula
1. Did you complain at the time and give the operator the chance to rectify it (if not how can you complain now ?). By this I mean complain, not whinge actually complain - best done in writing.
2. ask yourself , what do I expect to get out of complaining (a sum of money, discount of a trip, blood of the tour guide)
3. write to operator explaining what happened along with what you expect to get out of complaining
4. sit back and wait.
5. wait a bit more
6. receive reply, you will probably not like it.
7. write to an ombudsman
8. wait
9. accept their decision
10. Get on with you life as its all water under the bridge now.
or plan B.
go straight to 10.
Tony
The choice between the Brothers and the over crowded Elphinstone is a no brainer and if the weather is a problem then of course safety comes first. However if the only reason to change the itinerary is the inexperience of some divers, then that is not a reason to change and I think an email to TB is worth a few minutes of his time.
It won't get him the trip he paid for and a red sea live aboard isn't a cheap package trip it is an expensive holiday and an email saying how disappointed he was will make him feel better, I know it would me :D
It won't get him the trip he paid for and a red sea live aboard isn't a cheap package trip it is an expensive holiday and an email saying how disappointed he was will make him feel better, I know it would me :D
For many "complaining" without results just prolongs the pain rather than drawing a line under it. But that's a very personal matter
I try to complain about the things that I believe I can get changed (but then just rant about the others ;-) )
Tony
Michael Purcell
24-10-2008, 18:01
For many "complaining" without results just prolongs the pain rather than drawing a line under it. But that's a very personal matter
I try to complain about the things that I believe I can get changed (but then just rant about the others ;-) )
Tony
Really the point is the OP will run around slagging off TB for some time to come. (whether rightfully so or not) Don't you think TB at least deserves an opportunity to know and have an opportunity to to respond?
Really the point is the OP will run around slagging off TB for some time to come. (whether rightfully so or not) Don't you think TB at least deserves an opportunity to know and have an opportunity to to respond?
most definitely, but thats not the way forums seem to work !
Tony
Really the point is the OP will run around slagging off TB for some time to come. (whether rightfully so or not) Don't you think TB at least deserves an opportunity to know and have an opportunity to to respond?
Maybe. But the OP will probably do that down t'pub too and TB will never know about that.
My only experience of complaining to dive operations was when Emperor swapped the boat on us due to an engine problem and the one we used was much worse, and the crew were dangerous (eg one of the ribs hit one of the passengers). To be fair they offered free beer and a voucher. We wrote and complained but to no avail.
Next time we (20 of us - club trip) went with TB and they were superb. Although I'm sure they have off days like everyone else.
Janos
Janos
My first experience with TB was not good, last minute swap of boats with the replacement being definitely sub standard.
Emailed TB personally, he rang us and said that he had heard reports the boat was not good enough, asked for a week to investigate during which time he flew out to the Maldives to have a look himself.
On his return he rang again, agreed it was not up to standard and offered us a very good compensation package. We were very satisfied with the outcome.
Everyone has off days, the difference between good and bad tends to be how they deal with the bad days. My experience makes me think TB are good and I would tend to use them again.
For the Original Poster: I would email Tony personally explaining politely why you are not happy.
HepworthS
24-10-2008, 21:05
Interesting responses - thanks.
Inexperience = inexperienced - far less than 50. E.g., not even understanding the point of an DSMB. Why not just inflate on the surface!
Regarding the weather - as I mentioned it was rather blowy hence why we didn't get to the Brother's. However, we left Daedalus after 'the vote' in a Force 2 (I have the pictures) :-(
We have contacted Tony directly, who has asked the Sea Serpent fleet not to vote on itinerary changes amongst the guests - apparantly not the first time this has happenned. Tony has also given us a £100 voucher each - which is really an option to spend a further £1k. Whether this is satisfactory or not is a personal choice. Tony has my view on this.
Steve
Eddie Clamp
24-10-2008, 21:13
Interesting responses - thanks.
Inexperience = inexperienced - far less than 50. E.g., not even understanding the point of an DSMB. Why not just inflate on the surface!
Steve
Really! Well with the inexperience of some of the participants, maybe some of the guides didn't want to go to the Brothers with what they had been given. :rolleyes:
The minimum of 50 dives MUST be kept to IMHO.
We have contacted Tony directly, who has asked the Sea Serpent fleet not to vote on itinerary changes amongst the guests - apparantly not the first time this has happenned. Tony has also given us a £100 voucher each - which is really an option to spend a further £1k. Whether this is satisfactory or not is a personal choice. Tony has my view on this.
Steve
Well if you are very disillusioned with TB can I have the voucher ?
Tony
Maria CM
25-10-2008, 05:24
I have always found TB good but I do wonder why they had taken bookings from divers with not enough experience to do the trip?
best wishes,
Maria
Richard Whitcombe
25-10-2008, 13:42
I can see why the Brothers can be blown out - we were lucky to get there and had a real battering getting back a few weeks ago. The north wind there can make it unsafe.
We had a similar vote on our boat. Whether to stay at brothers for 1 more day or leave for Safaga and do other sites. We voted 9-3 to go back to shore as there really isnt more than 2 days diving at the brothers. Not sure how happy the 3 were but democracy in action again - the majority were happy with the outcome.
(Not with TB but most liveaboards have similar decisions to make)
Richard Whitcombe
25-10-2008, 13:44
In my case it was put to a vote because the weather wasn't looking good for the return trip to the Brothers (we'd already dived little brother ealier in the week) from Elfinstone.
It wasn't you lot on the Salem Express on the 8th October by any change? We passed a Blue O Two boat and divers from it with buddy gear etc on the dive site.
When the weather changes things nobody can complain but when people can vote there is always a problem. The dive leaders should state the best option and do it. I have found TB to be the best in the red sea and cant fault them.
Thats my tupenceworth.....;)
It wasn't you lot on the Salem Express on the 8th October by any change? We passed a Blue O Two boat and divers from it with buddy gear etc on the dive site.
Yep, that was us...
Not that I was one of buddy wearing divers... My BC has a blue H... ;)
:)
Richard Whitcombe
28-10-2008, 00:16
Yep, that was us...
Not that I was one of buddy wearing divers... My BC has a blue H... ;)
:)
Small world in that case, you were all heading onto the wreck as heads of the valley were heading off it :)
Maria CM
28-10-2008, 08:13
We weren't allowed to dive Salem Express when with Blue O Two as they said the crew didn't like it - I was gutted personally.
best wishes,
Maria
Richard Whitcombe
28-10-2008, 16:36
We weren't allowed to dive Salem Express when with Blue O Two as they said the crew didn't like it - I was gutted personally.
Maria
We were first asked if we wanted to dive it and voted yes. One of our 2 guides said he won't dive it (fair enough), the other was ok with it.
Can see the reasons for both sides so personal call for them. Its definitely a different atmosphere to the old style "clean" wrecks we're used to with cases and other personal items still clearly visible.
Eddie Clamp
28-10-2008, 17:09
We weren't allowed to dive Salem Express when with Blue O Two as they said the crew didn't like it - I was gutted personally.
best wishes,
Maria
Hi Maria
We must remember that this ship sank within recent memory and that many people died, some on pilgrimage I believe.
I have never been on an itinerary that offered this dive but I have to say that I, personally, would think twice before diving this wreck.
MSutcliffe
28-10-2008, 19:01
We weren't allowed to dive Salem Express when with Blue O Two as they said the crew didn't like it - I was gutted personally.
best wishes,
Maria
What tosh.
Blue Melody and her crew put us on the Salem Express a few weeks ago - no problem.
Which BO2 boat? Just so I can be sure not to book it for best of wrecks type trips in the future...
Maria CM
06-11-2008, 10:10
It was Blue Horizon
best wishes,
maria
Maria CM
06-11-2008, 10:15
Hi Maria
We must remember that this ship sank within recent memory and that many people died, some on pilgrimage I believe.
I have never been on an itinerary that offered this dive but I have to say that I, personally, would think twice before diving this wreck.
Hi Eddie,
I didn't want to poke around inside it, or even go that close. I wanted to dive a wreck that had more meaning to me, a bit like a 'paying of respects', probably sounds silly... perhaps a bit like the way I stand at memorials and graves and consider who the people were, whether they are still remembered, who misses them, who they loved etc
best wishes,
Maria
edit/ oh bum! I'm going watery again....
Dave Whitlow
14-11-2008, 21:55
It was Blue Horizon
best wishes,
maria
Must have been the crew who were on at the time. I was on Blue Horizon last October and we dived the Salem Express. One of the guides drew an excellent picture of the wreck for us and we were asked to limit any penetration to the bridge and cafe and not to enter the accommodation areas.
You could clearly see where it has struck, the bow door still ajar, and the lifeboats on the seabed showing how quickly it went down. It definitely has an atmosphere unlike other wrecks I've dived.
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