New automatic buoyancy control thingy

[Maria CM]

http://www.underwatertimes.com/news.php?article_id=11065493782

Link to an eng student thingy. Like the reference to 'cruise control' :D

The reference to it monitoring, and acting on, high speed plummets or max depths seems like a good safety thing, especially for newer divers. Not sure about the rapid ascent thing as that could be a real emergency ascent with breathing air required!

Just a thought... why don't BCDs have an autodump like a drysuit?

best wishes,

Maria

[Woz]

Electronics + water = disaster. Look at Inspiration divers and ask them how often they have to change wiring looms.

I think it should simply be taught as a core skill and relying on something to do the job for you is a dangerous thing.

[Maria CM]

Electronics + water = disaster. Look at Inspiration divers and ask them how often they have to change wiring looms.

I think it should simply be taught as a core skill and relying on something to do the job for you is a dangerous thing.

I agree, BUT, you do hear about inexperienced divers sinking out of control, panicking, and not realising how much air you need to stuff into your BCD if you are deeper than you should be and haven't been controlling your buoyancy properly.

I've known a few people who have had panic attacks because they have been lazy (or have not realised the importance of managing buoyancy on the way down) on their first courses and have gone down to the bottom like a stone in 30 m expecting to get there and put a bit of air in when they get to the bottom to do a buoyancy check and then freaked because the amount of air they were expecting to put in hasn't worked because they are so much deeper. Stick in being a bit narked or rusty after being released into the big diving world on their own and it is a potential disaster....

best wishes,

Maria

[PeteM]

I agree, BUT, you do hear about inexperienced divers sinking out of control, panicking, and not realising how much air you need to stuff into your BCD if you are deeper than you should be and haven't been controlling your buoyancy properly.

I've known a few people who have had panic attacks because they have been lazy (or have not realised the importance of managing buoyancy on the way down) on their first courses and have gone down to the bottom like a stone in 30 m expecting to get there and put a bit of air in when they get to the bottom to do a buoyancy check and then freaked because the amount of air they were expecting to put in hasn't worked because they are so much deeper. Stick in being a bit narked or rusty after being released into the big diving world on their own and it is a potential disaster....

best wishes,

Maria

But all those scenarios you describe involve being over weighted. If we can get all the instructors that insist on over weighting their pupils to do things properly then the problem goes away without expensive unreliable electronics

[ChristianG]

I agree, BUT, you do hear about inexperienced divers sinking out of control, panicking, and not realising how much air you need to stuff into your BCD if you are deeper than you should be and haven't been controlling your buoyancy properly.
You did use the word "inexperienced". It's not unlike the words "not trained properly".

[Maria CM]

But all those scenarios you describe involve being over weighted. If we can get all the instructors that insist on over weighting their pupils to do things properly then the problem goes away without expensive unreliable electronics

OK - just thought it was interesting and would possibly last until a new diver was more experienced and didn't need it any more......or a potential body recovery thing if the worst happened:eek:

best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

You did use the word "inexperienced". It's not unlike the words "not trained properly".

OK - it helps negate bad training. But things can't become second nature after 10 dives, or whatever it is you need to have done, in whichever organisation you happen to have used to qualify, so I think inexperienced is still valid.

Just think it is an interesting possible safety device - I'm not saying everyone should have them. (Although I might steal the prototype and sneakily fix it to your kit for picking on my choice of wording:p :D )

best wishes,

Maria

[ChristianG]

(Although I might steal the prototype and sneakily fix it to your kit for picking on my choice of wording:p :D )
Ya welcome. :)

Ya really think I wouldn't pick up on it? Actually, IIRC there was a "device" that attempted to do just that, maybe (?) 15 years ago? It was quite pathetic and I had a URL for it but, thankfully I suppose, that URL has died - one of those that should perhaps remain somewhere to simply explain stupidities?

Now, I'm sure that, somewhere on the net there's a URL for things like this, along the lines of the Historical Diving Society (http://www.thehds.com/) except that they do "historical", as distinct from "completely stupid". Anyone? Yes, I've looked.

I do, however, have a serious concern that the "average newbie diver" is being spoon fed nowadays and let out into that big, bad, bold SCUBA world without much of a clue.

The BSAC, as usual, excepted of course.

[Tony Dwyer]

But all those scenarios you describe involve being over weighted. If we can get all the instructors that insist on over weighting their pupils to do things properly then the problem goes away without expensive unreliable electronics

Yup. I'm with Pete on this.

I've had a look at the posted link. I would suggest the gadget is a very unpleasant problem waiting to happen. It's a solution to a problem that proper training and appropriate equipment should help eliminate.

What would the thing do if you had to perform a CBL? Most of us would probably come up a little faster that usual, if we were doing it for real.

[Woz]

OK - just thought it was interesting and would possibly last until a new diver was more experienced and didn't need it any more......or a potential body recovery thing if the worst happened:eek: Unless they ran out of air. Then it would be useless.

Or it goes wrong and the diver can't work out why they're heading north fast and they don't automatically dump from the BC cos the system's been doing it for them.

I think it's mending a problem that shouldn't exist with good training. By OS5 the trainees should be able to do everything near enough neutrally buoyant, or at least vaguely neutral rather than kneeling on the bottom like a sack of spuds.

[ChristianG]

I think it's mending a problem that shouldn't exist with good training. By OS5 the trainees should be able to do everything near enough neutrally buoyant, or at least vaguely neutral rather than kneeling on the bottom like a sack of spuds.
That, I would consider, is a damning statement.

[Richard Whitcombe]

This is a very dangerous solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Its electronic, it will go wrong. When it goes wrong people who are blindly relying on the thing (which will be most buyers) will be in serious trouble and unable to perform anything themselves.

Buoyancy isn't difficult - its supposed to be taught in training. You dont NEED some over-engineered bit of electronics. The only takers for this will be divers whose buoyancy control is so bad they NEED it and these are the same people who will be in danger when it stops working.

Also, its been done before and didn't sell as no market:

[Maria CM]

Oh well... I'll assume it is a rubbish idea then....

best wishes,

Maria

[Richard Whitcombe]

Just remembered and found the Dive Magazine April Fool a few years ago:

http://www.divemagazine.co.uk/news/article.asp?UAN=852

Look familiar?


Still, fit this device to a Mares Hub and you'd have the ultimate abortion of dive kit.

[johnskerry]

I am pretty sure a friend of mine has just such a device, there no electronics in it and it looks like a square yellow box with two steel shoulder harnesses, probably military origin around the sixty’s I would say. I will find out some more and take a photo.
John
By the way my friend said it didn’t work!

[northern_diver]

bad idea IMHO you still need to control yourself most of the time with it, so most of this is been lazy...dangerous lazy. bouyancy is a key skill and watering it down, is dangerous.

if my buddy tried it, i wouldnt dive with him, as he clearly doesnt have confirdence in his abilities nor training.
if he has abilies at all as he is using it. in the end, you bolting to the surface, use the 1-3 (normally0 dump valves fitted in your stab.
conversely, you dropping like a lead weight, inflat your stab. simple?

maybe as part of a training program for otherwise slower uptake trainee's, where they use that stab and are gradually wined off it in the POOL ONLY. but i really really think its a bad idea as you can do it easier and cheaper without.

must admit, seen some new stab that has a lever think for bouyancy control on the pocket...dont like that idea, tho never used or seen one in the real, so its only my initial response.

the auto dump on my drysuit (new generation apex) and all others auto's) is basically a spring that when too much air pressure pushes it and lifts a cover, this is due to expansion due to acsent (basic boyles law that we all know) the air is released, till it hasnt the pressure to push againt said spring and cover, sealing the dump.

if you ever took apart a dump valve on a stab its basically the same thing, though without the screw down feature often.

hope that helps maria:)

[MattS]

Stick in being a bit narked or rusty after being released into the big diving world on their own and it is a potential disaster....A years subs in a BSAC branch is probably cheaper than one of these electronic gizmos. They might even have learnt to dive safely by the end of it;)

[Nigel Hewitt]

There is an argument that rebreather divers learn monitoring much better on a manually controlled rebreather than on an electronically controlled one because you have to get it right all the time.

The same argument could be used that if you want to learn buoyancy control dive a rebreather because you have to get it right all the time too. When I started rebreather diving my buoyancy was all over the place, after 10 hours it still felt manic but I used a lot less gas getting it wrong, now it just seems to work.

I'm not quite sure what I do but it seems to be based on the idea that "I'm nearly at target depth so start adjusting now" but what constitutes 'nearly' depends on how fast I'm going, remember that how I breath makes no difference to my buoyancy.

Would I like something to do it for me? Well I quite value our trapeze for doing stops but the rest of the time I don't want a fixed value I just want to be down on the wreck. Having something adjusting me to some number would only help prospecting over a flat bottom.

Would it help the mythical 'student' in trouble? I doubt it.
They might need it as a backup for the first ten dives and then it's done with. Then they know that if you're going down too fast you inflate something and if you're going up too fast you dump something. You may zig a bit but you can trim out if you just set your mind to that and don't get distracted.

[John Bantin]

I once tried an automatic buoyancy device (in the Bahamas). Alas it was so long ago it is not archived on the Internet. You could set it for a maximum depth past which it would not allow a diver to go. (The more you swam down the more it inflated to compensate.) It certainly worked but it all seemed very complicated for what is a very simple technique. I deduced it might only be useful for certain disabled divers - and we never heard any more from the manufacturer.

[Maria CM]

I once tried an automatic buoyancy device (in the Bahamas). Alas it was so long ago it is not archived on the Internet. You could set it for a maximum depth past which it would not allow a diver to go. (The more you swam down the more it inflated to compensate.) It certainly worked but it all seemed very complicated for what is a very simple technique. I deduced it might only be useful for certain disabled divers - and we never heard any more from the manufacturer.

There you go! Ideal for my friend who dives on nitrox and keeps going past his MOD to chase after a picture of a shark!:D

best wishes,

Maria

[steveW602]

The Freedom Automatic Buoyancy Device was invented and market 20 years ago and was showed at the DEMA show in New Orleans and tested by the Navy Experimental Diving Unit. The design uses a simple adjustable pressure regulator. Automatic buoyancy is nothing new. If you need more information or would like to contact the inventor please email at smwwomdra@yaho.com.

[steveW602]

Not new 20 yrs old

[Dammyla]

There you go! Ideal for my friend who dives on nitrox and keeps going past his MOD to chase after a picture of a shark!:D

best wishes,

Maria

Probably being a bit harsh but sounds like an ideal darwin candidate to me