Openwater Instructors

[winker88]

Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

[Mike Halligan]

Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

One for the Coaching Scheme, I think. Try Jim at HQ.

HTH
Mike

[John Williams]

Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

You will needs trainees to teach.

These can be found within a Branch (but not within BSAC Direct
/General Branch) or within a BSAC School.

BSAC Instructors should always teach within a programme set out by the Branch/School DO - though trainuing can be signed up by any NQI it requires a DO to sign th qualification and tgherefore it is cortesy to consult the DO before undertaking any training that you will subsequently ask him/her to sign off.

Another alternative is to teach SDCs with the Regional Coaching Team....speak to your local SDCO or the Regional Coach for details of how to get involved in this way.


hth


JOhn

[Dave]

Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

You can not teach just independantly. You can teach through a branch or through a BSAC school only. Of course, teaching through a school you will have to ensure that you comply with HSE regulations.

If you want to be entirely independant then you will have to open your own school

Dave

[Edward Haynes]

Interesting question;-)

My gut reaction was to say no you should be in a Branch, but then you are; BSAC Direct.

I suppose the reality is - if you can get the practice in to pass the assessment(s) and get your OWI whilst in BSAC Direct then - yes you can teach, but remember you can not award diver qualifications that?s a Branch Diving Officer?s responsibility delegated from the National Diving Officer (BOH Section 4.4.4).

A member?s Branch Diving Officer will (most likely ? I would) want to see all the Risk Assessment forms covering each training session (BOH Section 4.2.12) to get an assurance that their member?s training was conducted properly.

However, the only answer that I can give is yes, because as an OWI you have been assessed to teach the BSAC DT syllabus.

Edward

[Dave]

However, the only answer that I can give is yes, because as an OWI you have been assessed to teach the BSAC DT syllabus.

I cannot say in which document, however I am 99% certain that the BSAC does not allow Instructors to operate independantly and are only permitted to operate within a school or within a branch.

Dave

[Edward Haynes]

Hi Dave

You are sort of right an individual can not be a BSAC School or a Resort.

The question was, as an OWI could they teach?

Edward

:=However, the only answer that I can give is yes, because as an OWI you have been assessed to teach the BSAC DT syllabus.

I cannot say in which document, however I am 99% certain that the BSAC does not allow Instructors to operate independantly and are only permitted to operate within a school or within a branch.

Dave

[Dave]

Hi Dave

You are sort of right an individual can not be a BSAC School or a Resort.

The question was, as an OWI could they teach?


Actually the question didnt read like that to me. Since he asked "do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone " whilst stating that he was a BSAC Direct member, it would seem to me to be a question on whether he is allowed to just teach independantly, which of course, he is not.

Instructors are permitted to instruct either within a branch or within a schoool only. Within either of these environments, the OWI does not require supervision

Dave

[Edward Haynes]

Dave

Though I agree with your statement I don't know if it's specified anywhere. Desides what happens when I'm out on a 'private' dive and my buddy asks if I could signup, say, a wreak dive? (Before we go in.)

Edward


Instructors are permitted to instruct either within a branch or within a schoool only. Within either of these environments, the OWI does not require supervision

Dave

[jens hucke]

As an Instructor with BSAC direct, you are a member of a "branch", the DO of which is at HQ.

So as far as I understand it, you should be OK instructing any other BSAC member, being from a local branch or from BSAC direct, and you can sign up the course elements. It is only the qualifications that you can not issue. These will be issued by the DO, or HQ, depending on whether the trainee is a branch member or BSAC direct member.

If in doubt, I would recommend calling the Technical departement at HQ, and ask for further guidance. Should you do so, can you then post the feedback you got so we all know for definite? Thanks
jens

[TWIX]

Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

As an add on to this thread, if I was an instructor who wanted to work abroad, could I teach or would I have to set up as a school? If so what does that entail?

Regards
Twix

[Edward Haynes]

A BSAC instructor can work in a BSAC School, providing all local requirements are meet.

Contact HQ for information about BSAC Schools around the world or about setting one up.

Edward

:=Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

As an add on to this thread, if I was an instructor who wanted to work abroad, could I teach or would I have to set up as a school? If so what does that entail?

Regards
Twix

[simon mackney-walker]

Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

Hi, I'm a club instructor who moved to West Australia, my nearest branch is Singapore! So I joined BSAC direct. Although I have no local branch I do have friend & relies who visit & would like to dive or continue some training. I asked HQ the procedure for direct members training & was informed that "BSAC direct is a non-training branch, training must be carried out within a branch or school".
Is there no way I can use my skills to the benifit of friends, relitives,potential new members & BSAC.

[Dave]

Is there no way I can use my skills to the benifit of friends, relitives,potential new members & BSAC.

Not without either (a) joining a branch or (b) setting up a school

Dave

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

:=Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.

Hi, I'm a club instructor who moved to West Australia, my nearest branch is Singapore! So I joined BSAC direct. Although I have no local branch I do have friend & relies who visit & would like to dive or continue some training. I asked HQ the procedure for direct members training & was informed that "BSAC direct is a non-training branch, training must be carried out within a branch or school".
Is there no way I can use my skills to the benifit of friends, relitives,potential new members & BSAC.

Hi Simon

Have you considered forming a branch? I am sure that there are other BSAC (and ex BSAC) members in Australia, hopefully some near you. If your friends and relatives are existing BSAC members then they could have dual branch membership with your branch (with no additional cost to them or you). HQ and your regional coach should be able to advise whether this is a viable route for you.

Keith L

[simon mackney-walker]

:=:=Hi all if i became a openwater instructor do i have to teach within a branch club ect or can i teach alone i am a bsac direct member.
:=
:=Hi, I'm a club instructor who moved to West Australia, my nearest branch is Singapore! So I joined BSAC direct. Although I have no local branch I do have friend & relies who visit & would like to dive or continue some training. I asked HQ the procedure for direct members training & was informed that "BSAC direct is a non-training branch, training must be carried out within a branch or school".
:=Is there no way I can use my skills to the benifit of friends, relitives,potential new members & BSAC.

Hi Simon

Have you considered forming a branch? I am sure that there are other BSAC (and ex BSAC) members in Australia, hopefully some near you. If your friends and relatives are existing BSAC members then they could have dual branch membership with your branch (with no additional cost to them or you). HQ and your regional coach should be able to advise whether this is a viable route for you.

Keith L

HI Keith

Yes I have considered forming a branch, however you need eight full diving members to form a branch, not including dual or youth members.
The only BSAC branch in WA closed in 2002 & as you can imagine interest is sparce (even the ex-pats who dive have never heard of BSAC).
There are other BSAC branchs in Australia but having your "local" branch a six hour flight away isn't very practical.
I have had some local interest but costs are prohibitive, approx. $100 joining fee plus training materials plus costs (kit hire,pool time)makes it just as cheap to do a basic PADI course, the cost don't seem high on UK wages but when earning Ozy dollers it makes a big differance.

Simon
ps. who's my regional coach please?

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

:=Hi Simon
:=
:=Have you considered forming a branch? I am sure that there are other BSAC (and ex BSAC) members in Australia, hopefully some near you. If your friends and relatives are existing BSAC members then they could have dual branch membership with your branch (with no additional cost to them or you). HQ and your regional coach should be able to advise whether this is a viable route for you.
:=
:=Keith L

HI Keith

Yes I have considered forming a branch, however you need eight full diving members to form a branch, not including dual or youth members.
The only BSAC branch in WA closed in 2002 & as you can imagine interest is sparce (even the ex-pats who dive have never heard of BSAC).
There are other BSAC branchs in Australia but having your "local" branch a six hour flight away isn't very practical.
I have had some local interest but costs are prohibitive, approx. $100 joining fee plus training materials plus costs (kit hire,pool time)makes it just as cheap to do a basic PADI course, the cost don't seem high on UK wages but when earning Ozy dollers it makes a big differance.

Simon
ps. who's my regional coach please?

Hi Simon

Link to the coaching list below. What might work in your situation, due to the geography, is a "virtual" branch - there's one or two around that I know of. You don't have to do the full job with premises, pools etc. etc. If you can find enough BSAC members in your area (plus a few friends from overseas?) then you could form a branch. Many of our branches are "diving only", they don't train, or they only do occasionally - they are more a collection of friends. Your branch fees could be zero (or very close to zero), if you and a few local mates want to do some training then purchase the appropriate packs, or if the PADI route is cheaper just recruit new memebrs to your branch as crossovers and then go diving!

Have a word with your regional coach and with HQ, maybe some of the old WA branch members may be interested?

HTH

Keith L

[neil Carter]

Hi Simon, Hi Keith,

Here's another thought. As Simon is still a fully paid up member of our Branch here in the UK, indeed as a founder member he was Branch Chairman until he decided on doing some warm water diving right outside his front door, this presumably means that I'm still his DO.

It may not be the best recommendation in the world, but as Simon was originally one of my trainees, I've watched and assisted him progress through his diving career to his present qualifications, both his Branch awarded Diver qualifications, and his nationally awarded NQI qualifications, plus the usual sheaf of Coaching Scheme SDCs. Bearing in mind his remoteness from any BSAC Branch, or Regional Coach, the closest I believe being in Singapore, what is to stop him purchasing the relevant training packs, and continuing to train up to his own level of qualifcation, while his Branch DO accepts his signed off QRB's for signature. As has been discussed many times before on these Fora, it is not neccessary for a Branch DO to witness or sanction the training of any individual diver, indeed if a given Instructor has verified all the training to have been successfully completed, then the DO has to sign off the qualification. Simon would be the first to admit to being put through his paces, with few prisoners being taken, and I am sure that he would be equally thorough with any training which he delivered.

As I said, just another thought. I have discusssed Simon's problems with him since he arrived down under, he is a very enthusiastic and committed BSAC diver, and the last thing he wants to do is to cross over himself to PADI, or indeed to any other Agency, and equally he really does want to continue to dive and train within the BSAC Club system without encouraging possibe new divers to investigate the dark side first.

Before he emigrated this problem was discussed with HQ, and with one or two Oz divers, but seems that no practical solution is forthcoming, now nearly twelve months downstream. Simon could do good in WA, we need to help him get there.

Neil Carter

DO

ISIS Divers

[Keith Lawrence(BSAC)]

Hi Simon, Hi Keith,

Here's another thought. As Simon is still a fully paid up member of our Branch here in the UK, indeed as a founder member he was Branch Chairman until he decided on doing some warm water diving right outside his front door, this presumably means that I'm still his DO.

It may not be the best recommendation in the world, but as Simon was originally one of my trainees, I've watched and assisted him progress through his diving career to his present qualifications, both his Branch awarded Diver qualifications, and his nationally awarded NQI qualifications, plus the usual sheaf of Coaching Scheme SDCs. Bearing in mind his remoteness from any BSAC Branch, or Regional Coach, the closest I believe being in Singapore, what is to stop him purchasing the relevant training packs, and continuing to train up to his own level of qualifcation, while his Branch DO accepts his signed off QRB's for signature. As has been discussed many times before on these Fora, it is not neccessary for a Branch DO to witness or sanction the training of any individual diver, indeed if a given Instructor has verified all the training to have been successfully completed, then the DO has to sign off the qualification. Simon would be the first to admit to being put through his paces, with few prisoners being taken, and I am sure that he would be equally thorough with any training which he delivered.

As I said, just another thought. I have discusssed Simon's problems with him since he arrived down under, he is a very enthusiastic and committed BSAC diver, and the last thing he wants to do is to cross over himself to PADI, or indeed to any other Agency, and equally he really does want to continue to dive and train within the BSAC Club system without encouraging possibe new divers to investigate the dark side first.

Before he emigrated this problem was discussed with HQ, and with one or two Oz divers, but seems that no practical solution is forthcoming, now nearly twelve months downstream. Simon could do good in WA, we need to help him get there.

Thanks for that Neil

You might have something there, you would need to discuss it with HQ. But theoretically as Simon is a fully paid up member of your branch then you are indeed his DO. The only problem I can see is that obviously Simon cannot train himself, but if there?s another BSAC NQI around who could assist that problem could be overcome. You?re already doing partly what I was muttering about, you seem to have a virtual sub-branch of your own branch in WA in the shape of Simon :-) Perhaps if he could find a few more ?virtual members? for you the approach that you suggest may work until there?s the critical mass in WA for an independent branch.

I am by no means the expert on such things, chat it over with HQ and the regional coach. But it would be a great shame if we couldn?t help Simon at all, feel free to give me a shout if you think that there is anything that I may be able to do.

Cheers

Keith L