View Full Version : Trainees... who'd have 'em, eh?
Steve Walker
13-10-2003, 15:20
Can anybody top this for lack of fitness in the "yoof of today"? Young (about 18) female trainee, not overweight by anyone's standards, no declared medical contra-indications for diving and no obvious reason why you'd expect their fitness to be low, can't manage the swim test without stopping for breaks after every two lengths, looks like they're going to pass out almost (seriously!) barely manages to tread water for 2 mins, then is incapable of exiting the water (minus ladder) without my knee up her backside! Ironically very confident with scuba kit on though...
Not fitness related but... pool with max depth of 2.1m, trainee (OD qualified doing SS1) with no declared or apparent cold or sniffles, experiences ear problems whislt kneeling on the bottom of the pool, she's a tall girl so her head is no more than one metre deep, we shallow a bit and redescend, ear seems fine. Then doing AAS ascent she get to top of pool and instantly feels dizzy, training is aborted. Apparently she has constant ear problems in open water, I've never seen anyone with probelms in such shallow water, has anyone else and is so did you perhaps sugest that diving wasn't for them? I didn't do the latter but I'm sorely tempted to suggest this to her DO.
And then there was the "should we let him in the pool or shouldn't we?" re the young lad with the pacemaker ! Kids today, they're all done in before they're 21 :-))))
Cheers
Steve W
(BTW we did let the last one do their training)
Tony Dwyer
13-10-2003, 15:55
I have seen similar, but in my view mental fitnes can be more of a problem. Afterall you can help someone get physically fit over time. I even had one trainee once that could not swim. He's an instructor now!
Mental fitness is another matter all together.
I can train people to physical fitness but I'm no Psychologist or special needs teacher.
We have in the past,had people present with severe cognitive issues. Not stupidity, but issues arising from behavioural problems. When identified they have been politely shown the door. Diving is simply not for them. They will wind up killing themselves or somebody else, if the instructor doesn't bump them off first in exasperation. Areas of concern include;
Rudeness
Aggressive, even violent behaviour
Refusal to acknowledge ANY mistakes. Anything that is a problem, is someone elses problem not theirs.
Intentional deafness (aka Dumb insolence in old Army speak)
Me first attitude.
etc.
These days it seems politically incorrect to suggest that such behaviours are a problem. They are to me, I'm a volunteer. I can and do choose not to teach such individuals.
Steve Walker
13-10-2003, 17:21
Totally agree, I have a zero-tolerance approach to rudeness, we're doing them a favour not tuther way round.
Pet hate - mobile phones going off in the middle of giving a lecture! How f***ing rude is that!
How about this one then.
Sign-up night a year ago and one of many attempting to join.
Filling out the medical disclaimer newbie enquired about some
of the questions.
Me: If you answer yes then you may have to go and see a medical
referee.
Newbie: I'm not wasting money on doctors its not that serious
anyway.
Me: What's not serious?
Newbie: I get severe migrain.
Me: How severe.
Newbie: I can faint or become unconcious.
Me: Gulp! And how much warning do you have.
Newbie: Under 35-40 minutes.
After explaining how a dive usually lasts 35-40 minutes and
that he would absolutely need to see the Doc, he remonstrated
to us very loudly that diving wasnt for him (he actually said
lots of other words, but Keith might get upset).
He was never seen again .........
TerryH
Totally agree, I have a zero-tolerance approach to rudeness, we're doing them a favour not tuther way round.
Pet hate - mobile phones going off in the middle of giving a lecture! How f***ing rude is that!
You tell them to switch off at the start or put it on silent,
then go red faced when your phone rings mid-lecture.
TerryH - Nitrox SDC June 03
Steve Walker
13-10-2003, 17:51
How about this:
Trainee: This is no good for me, can't you change the lectures from Wednesday night to some other night?
Us: Not really, the club has had it's lectures and pub night on a wednesday for over 25 years, what seems to be the problem.
Trainee: Scuba lectures clash with my salsa dancing classes...
FFS! Needless to say the then DO lost it a bit at that point and invoked language KL wouldn't approve of :-)))
Students, don't yer just love 'em ;-)
How about this:
Trainee: This is no good for me, can't you change the lectures from Wednesday night to some other night?
Us: Not really, the club has had it's lectures and pub night on a wednesday for over 25 years, what seems to be the problem.
Trainee: Scuba lectures clash with my salsa dancing classes...
FFS! Needless to say the then DO lost it a bit at that point and invoked language KL wouldn't approve of :-)))
Students, don't yer just love 'em ;-)
Deja Vu or what!!!!! Your newbie wasnt a certain Southern
TDI diver who has a Spanish girlfriend is it?
He has salsa on Tuesdays and wanted us to change club night to
Wednesdays.
If the trend continues we might as well give up diving in
favour of salsa. Barcardi anyone?
TerryH
Tony Dwyer
13-10-2003, 18:25
Setting up dates for lectures has ever been a problem. There's always someone who can't make the dates suggested. The expectation is that we will reschedule everyone else to suit. Whinges result when it is suggested that they may have to wait till the next round to cover the missed bits.
The same applies to Open Water sessions, despite the fact that all the instructors are volunteers, they are expected to schedule their time to match trainees schedules. Considerations caused by:
Baby sitters
Booze runs to France
Other pastimes, but not Salsa yet!
etc.
I've been complained to in the past because I have been unavailable due to work and family commitments.
Ho Hum!
edward haynes
13-10-2003, 20:10
Can anybody top this for lack of fitness in the "yoof of today"? Young (about 18) female trainee, not overweight by anyone's standards, no declared medical contra-indications for diving and no obvious reason why you'd expect their fitness to be low, can't manage the swim test without stopping for breaks after every two lengths, looks like they're going to pass out almost (seriously!) barely manages to tread water for 2 mins, then is incapable of exiting the water (minus ladder) without my knee up her backside! Ironically very confident with scuba kit on though...
Male 30 ish plays squash 2-3 times a week for an hour a time. Couldn't complete the 200 m swim test (out of breath)? Two weeks later just scraped through, but gave up on diving as it interfered with his flying.
This was a few years ago.
Edward
David Humm
13-10-2003, 20:49
Ok, not diver related but follows exactly the same thread..
As a senior student and assistant instructor in a martial art known as Aikido, my club had a telephone call from what appeared to be a potential new club member..
He said.. "How long would it take to learn Aikido?"
Reply.. "That depends upon the student but generally students devote their lifetime to continually refining their art"
He said.. "What about learning one or two 'moves' then?"
Reply.. "again depends on the student, how often they train, absorb the information presented by the instructor but, there isnt any rush, you learn at your own pace"
He said.. "oh, what about the noises then ?"
Reply.. "noises ??"
He said.. "yeh you know, the noises you make when you do the moves.. (Imagine the stereo-typical chicken type kung fu sound. He makes to illustrate his point.)
Reply.. "We don't make or teach these kinds of noises when we execute our techniques.. Why do you ask?"
He said.. " Ah f*ck it !! I'm expecting some trouble down my local next Saturday and wanted to be prepared"
**The phone hangs up**
No accounting for IQ levels is there ?
Dave Humm
Or how about the Burly fireman who had a try-dive and asked to
join the club.
Newbie: I'd like to learn scuba, but only want to do the pool
bit.
Me: Your not happy with the cold stuff and want to do warm
water diving?
Newbie: No, I dont want to even do that. I just want to be able to swim round the pool.
Me: Right, but it's quite an expensive way to just go in a
pool, why dont you want to go open water?
Newbie: Err, I like scuba, but I'm frightened of fish!
He didnt join (well we suggested he take up a different sport).
TerryH
Tony Dwyer
14-10-2003, 11:36
About 2 years ago, we had middle aged man sign up for training. He had a try dive bubble in the pool and seemed quite happy. Paid up his membership and signed the medical self cert, which had been fully explained to him. He was a very tall bloke and powerfully built.
So first pool training session. There we were in water just deep enough to cover his head while kneeling on the bottom. We're doing introduction to mask clearing. A full briefing on the skills being covered had been conducted at the pool side. I demo partial mask clear with very little water in the mask. He lets a little water into the mask and promptly explodes to the surface, pulling me with him (I weigh 92 kilos). I stand up. A little chat,something on the lines of, 'Lots of people are a bit anxious the first time they have water in the mask, don't worry, let's try again'.
We did, with exactly the same result.
He is obviously very distressed. He tells me that could couldn't breath. I remind him that the regulator will provide him with air even if the mask is full of water.
'No', he says, 'I couldn't breathe at all, it's me Asthma'.
'Asthma, you suffer from Asthma?'
'Yes, It comes on suddenly when I'm a bit stressed'.
'A bit stressed, the water in your mask was enough to trigger an attack? But you signed the medical self cert form.'
'Yes, er?, I didn't think it would matter'.
At that point I stopped the session and we went off for a serious chat. We gave him his money back.
The issue was not necessarily the Asthma (many people dive with it), more that he had essentially not been truthful on his self cert.
The form specifically asks:
3. Have you suffered from or had to take medication for asthma?
13. Have you any history of mental or psychological illness of any kind, fear of small spaces, crowds or panic attacks?
Both questions in my view should have been answered in the positive by him.
How many more like him are out there?
DeepDigit
14-10-2003, 12:00
This is a cracker!!
Student completes a number of initial pool sessions in the shallow end and progresses to stride entry at the deepend of the pool, 3.5M deep and on this occasions crystal clear.
The students all kitted and briefed, the entry is demonstrated by myself and I then proceed to talk the student into the pool.
She motions to the side of the pool sideways, turn face onto the pool, looks down and promptly faints.
Another instructor is quickly on the scene as I clamber out of the pool. we remove her kit and check shes okay and a few seconds later she comes too.
After a minute or two shes asked whats wrong, 'Can't stand heights' she says - I faint.
Boom Boom....
:-)
How about this absolute corker.
A couple of years ago we were at Horsea and saw the notice
refuring to Weils desease. April 1st was close and putting the
two together we came up with this.
We had a planned combined training/diving trip going out from
Lulworth on Yo-Yo divers Rib.
Bear in mind that many of ours students were doing degrees
in various marine sciences.
So out went the email saying that there was a parasitical bug
sweeping the South Coast during the plankton bloom, which can
cause rashes in male apendages. As a safety precaution any
divers wearing wetsuits should wear condoms. Female divers are
not affected as they are more alkaline.
I called it Plasticas Solvicas.
Dispite a few emails and quite a few detailed questions
(amazaing what flannel you can get from the web) our story held
true.
So on eth day we asked "have you got your condoms on?".
Seemed that nobody bit.
After the dive Wes (the skipper) was pulling his drysuit seal away from his neck and ther was a nasty latex rash. When asked publicly how he got it we pointed out, (yep you guessed)
Plasticas Solvicas.
2nd dive of the day, who has there condom on.
Three divers put ther hands up!
Our work was done.
(BTW the idea for Plasticas Solvicas came from Solvo Autosol)
TerryH
Tony Dwyer
14-10-2003, 14:46
ROTFLMSO!
That's so daft it hurts.
You bad man!
Keith Lawrence(BSAC)
14-10-2003, 16:16
Just in case anybody reading this thread thinks that this is how we treat all trainees then let me assure you that these are the exceptions rather than the rule. With the thousands of people who train with the BSAC every year there?s always the odd one or two who would try the patience of a saint, let alone the patience of a volunteer instructor who has given up his spare time for them! Most of our instructors will have a diving tale or two to tell about trainees they have encountered over the years, at least we haven?t had the Heinz vegetable soup one yet, that one is REALLY gross!
Keith L
Reminds me of a dive I did with a trainee on his first sea dive.
All through the dive he was hovering about half to a metre above me. I was down at the bottom looking under rocks and finding squat lobsters, prawns and stuff to point out to him.
Come the debriefing I said "You seemed to be having a bit of a problem with your bouyancy could you not get down?" "No I didn't have a problem" he said "There were crabs down there. I can't stand crabs"
He's still diving and he still can't stand crabs.
at least we haven?t had the Heinz vegetable soup one yet, that one is REALLY gross!
Keith L
Come on Keith you cant dangle a carrot like that (or should it
be diced carrots) wihout telling us!
TerryH
Andy Wade
14-10-2003, 19:01
Just in case anybody reading this thread thinks that this is how we treat all trainees then let me assure you that these are the exceptions rather than the rule. With the thousands of people who train with the BSAC every year there?s always the odd one or two who would try the patience of a saint, let alone the patience of a volunteer instructor who has given up his spare time for them! Most of our instructors will have a diving tale or two to tell about trainees they have encountered over the years, at least we haven?t had the Heinz vegetable soup one yet, that one is REALLY gross!
Well, this is worse than that.
During my training, the instructors used to sit next to us in the bobbing boat and discuss having a nice drink of carthorse plegm or gorilla snot!
It worked every time with anyone who was feeling a little bit queasy.
Rotten swines.
Still, I did do it myself a few times when I started teaching.
;-)
Paul Oliver
14-10-2003, 23:57
Hi all,
Thats why we insist all new divers have a medical before OW training. Its all explained and we can get them the medical for ?30 with an old club member Doc. We accept self cert once that runs out.
Its in our branch "Rules / Bye Laws", and i suspect prevented several incidents as we have caught several new divers out who were bluffing their case.
We have had no objections other than from people we know are bluffing. A lot of our reasonong is that people do not appreciate the dangers of bluffing the form until they are at 30m in the channel for the first time.
We do not care if anyone says we cannot do this, as if we had to accept new divers on the self cert alone they would have a lot of problems finding an instructor to take them Open Water.
Dive Safe
Paul
for the sake of accuracy Terry , I never asked you to change club night, I merely ponted out that i would be unable to attend Tuesday nights as it clashed with my class......
:=How about this:
:=Trainee: This is no good for me, can't you change the lectures from Wednesday night to some other night?
:=
:=Us: Not really, the club has had it's lectures and pub night on a wednesday for over 25 years, what seems to be the problem.
:=
:=Trainee: Scuba lectures clash with my salsa dancing classes...
:=
:=FFS! Needless to say the then DO lost it a bit at that point and invoked language KL wouldn't approve of :-)))
:=Students, don't yer just love 'em ;-)
Deja Vu or what!!!!! Your newbie wasnt a certain Southern
TDI diver who has a Spanish girlfriend is it?
He has salsa on Tuesdays and wanted us to change club night to
Wednesdays.
If the trend continues we might as well give up diving in
favour of salsa. Barcardi anyone?
TerryH
Colin Knight
17-10-2003, 10:17
I concur with your policy Paul. I teach PADI courses and also require a signed medical beforehand, regardless of what the student writes on their medical form. Experience has taught that the wisdom of this approach.
Colin
markbsac
25-10-2003, 10:32
I concur with your policy Paul. I teach PADI courses and also require a signed medical beforehand, regardless of what the student writes on their medical form. Experience has taught that the wisdom of this approach.
Colin
1 i agree we are volunteers,but i get the feeling some people think we are there at there beck and call.
one of our club memebers had a go at me because i dont make myself available enough and as an instructor i should be there for trainees..or we will loose them she said.
i explained i have another life like..1 work,2 a family,i also work shifts.
this same person was one who i spent over ?100 of my own money taking them into stoney cove to get them qualified one summer.
she now proceeds to stab me in the back to other club memebers...gratitude..i ask ya !!!!!!!!
needless to say i will no longer train this person any further.
we also make all new trainees take a medical before open water training...well lets put it this way we advise it very strongly.
mark willoughby owi 2352
Hi Mark
1 i agree we are volunteers,but i get the feeling some people think we are there at there beck and call.
one of our club memebers had a go at me because i dont make myself available enough and as an instructor i should be there for trainees..or we will loose them she said.
No doubt she thought she was doing your club a favour. If the opportunity arises try this;
1. Ask her which she thinks is better for the trainees, losing an occassional instructor or losing a trainee.
2. Point out that there are people in the club doing absolutely nothing (there always are). Could she encourage them to do something rather than badgering you to do more?
3. Try to agree on a reasonable level of assistance. How many training dives a year does she want you to do? Can you live up to that?
i explained i have another life like..1 work,2 a family,i also work shifts.
this same person was one who i spent over ?100 of my own money taking them into stoney cove to get them qualified one summer.
People do not always realise how unreasonable they are being. You have to point it out to them occassionaly.
she now proceeds to stab me in the back to other club memebers...gratitude..i ask ya !!!!!!!!
needless to say i will no longer train this person any further.
Always a difficult one for a chairman. You occassionally get members that are, lets say, 'over zealous'. They are genuinely trying to help but the way in which they go about it is ultimately destructive. The instructor that constantly whines about doing it. The branch officer who sees any offer of assistance as a threat to their status. The club member who judges the help you provide as not good enough.
Thankfully while we are all occassionally capable of being unreasonable on the whole we are all reasonable. I am sure your 'friend' is fooling no one, the majority will value your effort even if she does not.
Regards
MattS
markbsac
25-10-2003, 16:51
Hi Mark
:=1 i agree we are volunteers,but i get the feeling some people think we are there at there beck and call.
:=one of our club memebers had a go at me because i dont make myself available enough and as an instructor i should be there for trainees..or we will loose them she said.
No doubt she thought she was doing your club a favour. If the opportunity arises try this;
1. Ask her which she thinks is better for the trainees, losing an occassional instructor or losing a trainee.
2. Point out that there are people in the club doing absolutely nothing (there always are). Could she encourage them to do something rather than badgering you to do more?
3. Try to agree on a reasonable level of assistance. How many training dives a year does she want you to do? Can you live up to that?
:=i explained i have another life like..1 work,2 a family,i also work shifts.
:=this same person was one who i spent over ?100 of my own money taking them into stoney cove to get them qualified one summer.
People do not always realise how unreasonable they are being. You have to point it out to them occassionaly.
:=she now proceeds to stab me in the back to other club memebers...gratitude..i ask ya !!!!!!!!
:=needless to say i will no longer train this person any further.
Always a difficult one for a chairman. You occassionally get members that are, lets say, 'over zealous'. They are genuinely trying to help but the way in which they go about it is ultimately destructive. The instructor that constantly whines about doing it. The branch officer who sees any offer of assistance as a threat to their status. The club member who judges the help you provide as not good enough.
Thankfully while we are all occassionally capable of being unreasonable on the whole we are all reasonable. I am sure your 'friend' is fooling no one, the majority will value your effort even if she does not.
Regards
MattS
matt
it doesn't concern me at all....as an instructor i pull strings not her....the D.O is aware of her comments..but rarely says anything in fear of upsetting people.
I have also pointed out if she thinks she could do better..and pass the instructor course and exams she is welcome to become an instructor.
i was going to pack it all in..but at the end of the day my love of diving keeps me there and my love of instructing.
it just winds me up people who think they know better but know nothing.
mark
I have also pointed out if she thinks she could do better..and pass the instructor course and exams she is welcome to become an instructor.
ROFL. It just gets better. I assumed this girl was already an instructor and doing more than you are. Maybe there is something you can find for her to do that will help the club. Preferably a job no one else wants!
i was going to pack it all in..but at the end of the day my love of diving keeps me there and my love of instructing.
I guess that is the thing to remember, it is her problem not yours.
it just winds me up people who think they know better but know nothing.
They aren't all like that thank heavans.
Regards
MattS
markbsac
25-10-2003, 19:28
:=I have also pointed out if she thinks she could do better..and pass the instructor course and exams she is welcome to become an instructor.
ROFL. It just gets better. I assumed this girl was already an instructor and doing more than you are. Maybe there is something you can find for her to do that will help the club. Preferably a job no one else wants!
:=i was going to pack it all in..but at the end of the day my love of diving keeps me there and my love of instructing.
matt
thats were the problem lies...we made her club treasurer..she now thinks she runs the club..and the instructors.
she is naturally a bossy person...so once given a posision on the committee she really went power crazy.
anyway i told her as a volunteer i will do what i want not what im told...espeically by her.
all good fun me thinks.
mark
I guess that is the thing to remember, it is her problem not yours.
:=it just winds me up people who think they know better but know nothing.
They aren't all like that thank heavans.
Regards
MattS
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