CBL the method [Archive] - BSAC Scuba Diving Forums

deepbreath

04-10-2003, 21:42

Hi folks, can somebody confirm that the CBL exercise is now only done by inflating the casualties bc only, not the dry suit if used.

Regards.

PeteM

05-10-2003, 11:11

Hi folks, can somebody confirm that the CBL exercise is now only done by inflating the casualties bc only, not the dry suit if used.

From the instructor manual lesson OO4 "may involve establishing positive bouyancy using the casualty's dry suit or using their BC"

John Williams

05-10-2003, 15:37

Hi folks, can somebody confirm that the CBL exercise is now only done by inflating the casualties bc only, not the dry suit if used.

Regards.

No-one is going to give you a definitive answer to this one...because there isn't one.

Almost everyone will have their preferences (with vaild reasons for that preference).

The bottom line is ... talk your traines through the pros and cons of each method (perhaps even get the proponents of the "other" methods to join in).

If a method works - then it works and it is OK to use that method.

You need to teach divers to think their way out of a problem and not just to react "parrot fashion" (though once the thought has been applied and a method chosen it does need practicing until it becomes an automatic reation)

John

deepbreath

05-10-2003, 20:31

:=Hi folks, can somebody confirm that the CBL exercise is now only done by inflating the casualties bc only, not the dry suit if used.
:=
:= Regards.

No-one is going to give you a definitive answer to this one...because there isn't one.

Almost everyone will have their preferences (with vaild reasons for that preference).

The bottom line is ... talk your traines through the pros and cons of each method (perhaps even get the proponents of the "other" methods to join in).

If a method works - then it works and it is OK to use that method.

You need to teach divers to think their way out of a problem and not just to react "parrot fashion" (though once the thought has been applied and a method chosen it does need practicing until it becomes an automatic reation)

John

Thanks chaps, I do use both methods, its just that I was told recently, only to use the BC for the exercise, just trying to clarify, thanks for your input.

Nick.

John Williams

06-10-2003, 21:51

Thanks chaps, I do use both methods, its just that I was told recently, only to use the BC for the exercise, just trying to clarify, thanks for your input.

Nick.

One should always try to keep your teaching as simple as possible (whilst effectively covering the topic/skill in progressive steps)

Teaching two methods immediately doubles the complexity and raises questions that probably get in the way at this stage of training.

Since divers can dive in either drysuit or wet suit and the BCD method can be used with either I tend to use the BCD only method and discuss the other only if it crops up.

I also like to dive with my Drysuit autodump fully open (so that it maintains my comfort without affecting my buoyancy too much). This means that using my drysuit to do a CBL requires a departure from the skills taught in the pool (who wears a drysuit in the pool???) AND it requires the trainee to work out whether I have an autodump and to close if before a CBL.

Once at the surface the correct attitude in the water requires the BCD to be inflated and not the suit...so why not get there with the BCD controls in your hands and ready to go?

The drysuit method and the switch it requies at the surface is just complicated for my preference - so I choose to teach the BCD method for all sorts of reasons.

John

Steve Walker

08-10-2003, 12:31

Totally agree with Johns KISS philosophy (for the few who may be unfamiliar with that acronym: keep it simple, stupid)

I've always taught CBL using BCD only, it can be easily broken down into five very simple steps and was readily assimilated and well executed by the eight OD trainees I taught last weekend. And if they disply the same competency in open water, I'd be comfortable that any of these guys would get me safely to the surface should it be necessary.

chris B

13-10-2003, 00:04

Hi Folks,

got a question for you.

Assuming there is a good chance the casualty is unconsious (I think that is reasonable since they can't help themselfs) How, if lifting from the front, do you propose to hold the reg in, control yours/their buoyancy and maintain a firm grip of them....at the same time?
Not looking to be clever here, just wodering how many people have concidered this.

I have only ever been shown ONE method that can accomplish this simply.....

iainmsmith

13-10-2003, 08:30

Assuming there is a good chance the casualty is unconsious (I think that is reasonable since they can't help themselfs) How, if lifting from the front, do you propose to hold the reg in, control yours/their buoyancy and maintain a firm grip of them....at the same time?

Depends on how they are rigged. If diving with a "Primary and backup" reg configuration, then the necklace can be used to hold the casualty's backup reg in their mouth. This can be used with any CBL technique for added security.

Other methods would be a scissor lift (wrap your legs around the casualty, thus freeing both of your arms) or possibly a lift from behind.

It occurs to me that it might be possible (give sufficient slack in the shoulder straps) to put your left arm through the casualty's right shoulder strap and hold the reg in with that one, while controlling buoyancy with your right hand, however, I'd have to try that before recommending it.

I have only ever been shown ONE method that can accomplish this simply.....

Don't keep us in suspense!

Iain

Andy Nye

13-10-2003, 09:55

:=Assuming there is a good chance the casualty is unconsious (I think that is reasonable since they can't help themselfs) How, if lifting from the front, do you propose to hold the reg in, control yours/their buoyancy and maintain a firm grip of them....at the same time?

**** Slide your LEFT arm tho the shoulder strap of the Stab Harness, using the palm of your hand to keep the casualites reg in place,,,, this also gives a good contact to use the purge button ,,,,,, having your RIGHT hand free to use casualites Stab / drybag inflators and dumps. ****

Depends on how they are rigged. If diving with a "Primary and backup" reg configuration, then the necklace can be used to hold the casualty's backup reg in their mouth. This can be used with any CBL technique for added security.

**** Necklace is OK if it can be tightened to keep DV in mouth,, 9 times out of ten it can fall out or spat out. ****

Other methods would be a scissor lift (wrap your legs around the casualty, thus freeing both of your arms) or possibly a lift from behind.

**** Ok, if you are tall and long legged,,,, imposssible for a small person to do, especailly at sea, when divers have so much cr*p strapped to both legs ,,,,i.e goodie bags,lift bags etc ,,,****

It occurs to me that it might be possible (give sufficient slack in the shoulder straps) to put your left arm through the casualty's right shoulder strap and hold the reg in with that one, while controlling buoyancy with your right hand, however, I'd have to try that before recommending it.

**** SEE ABOVE, the is the best and simpliest method, and no need to slacken the straps,,, ( Not a firm hold that way is it and time lost underwater with a non consious casualty that might soon go to non breathing, even worse is if they start to fit,,, ****

I have only ever been shown ONE method that can accomplish this simply.....

Don't keep us in suspense!

Iain

chris B

13-10-2003, 10:10

Andy Nye

13-10-2003, 10:45

HI all,

I didn't want to post the method I was shown (and now use exclusively) as I genuinely wanted to see if there were other methods out there.

Lifting from behind, the right arm passes under the casualties right arm, thus trapping them in the crease of that elbow and pulling them against you. This hand can then be used to hold in reg, thus accomplishing two things with one hand.(additionally, I can see my computer on this wrist to help control ascent speed without moving my hand from their DV)

**** If you was on the bottom unconsious, the first thing thats needed is to get you on the surface and sorted out. After getting hold of you and start to get you buoyant, the LAST THING i would be looking at is a blo** computer to check ascent rate.....I would RISK a faster ascent to keep you alive and get the medical attention you require ,,,,, so really that method is not a option in my mind, plus my computer is in my console and held back by my chest strap... ****

The problem as i see it and have come across this once is that the DV is normally forced out due to expansion in lungs during ascent,,,,,, te best method i feel is ,,, is to slightly over inflat the casuality and let them free ascent while holding them firmly as not to lose contact.... lung expansion will force the DV out ( this automatically stops and breathe holding ) ,, and hopefully get them to the surface still breathing.

IT'S EASIER TO SORT A BEND OUT ON THE SURFACE, then to try and help a casuality underwater that could become a WCS.

Andy.

**** LITTLE PERSONAL STORY here..... I was diving on a wreck at 38 mts, and droped a wire strop that fell to the seabed at 42 mts, dropping over the side , i felt a almighty pain in my JAW, suddenly felt a bang in my mouth and ears were ringing like mad.
I just started finning for the surface with a bit of added extra lift air, the pain got worse, that i blacked out. On the surface my back up RIB grabbed me and later was told " There was blood everwhere " picked up by ambulance and rushed off to hospital .
What had happened was, one of my back teeth had a air pocket in it and exploded, breaking my TMJ ( Tempro mandibular Joint ),part of the tooth root was still in place ( for 2 months after as they couldn't open my mouth wide enough to get it all out )..... i couldn't dive for a 6 months after that, but ended up being nearly a year... ( lot of wages lost , due to the fact i'm a commercial diver ).

NOW what saved me from drowning / spitting out a dv was , that on that day i was wearing a AGA mask,,,, always had gas, although it was blood filled .

But at the end of the day, i surfaced alone, had no bend or DCS and lived to tell the tale.

Andy

terryh

13-10-2003, 11:09

**** LITTLE PERSONAL STORY here..... I was diving on a wreck at 38 mts, and droped a wire strop that fell to the seabed at 42 mts, dropping over the side , i felt a almighty pain in my JAW, suddenly felt a bang in my mouth and ears were ringing like mad.
I just started finning for the surface with a bit of added extra lift air, the pain got worse, that i blacked out. On the surface my back up RIB grabbed me and later was told " There was blood everwhere " picked up by ambulance and rushed off to hospital .
What had happened was, one of my back teeth had a air pocket in it and exploded, breaking my TMJ ( Tempro mandibular Joint ),part of the tooth root was still in place ( for 2 months after as they couldn't open my mouth wide enough to get it all out )..... i couldn't dive for a 6 months after that, but ended up being nearly a year... ( lot of wages lost , due to the fact i'm a commercial diver ).

NOW what saved me from drowning / spitting out a dv was , that on that day i was wearing a AGA mask,,,, always had gas, although it was blood filled .

But at the end of the day, i surfaced alone, had no bend or DCS and lived to tell the tale.

Jeeze Andy, bet you win when you play the Richard Drefus/Robert
Shaw, let's compare scars game out of Jaws.

TerryH

Steve Walker

13-10-2003, 15:03

Jee-zuz ! Andy, this is what I really appreciate about Commy guys like you and Hobby, plenty of real life trouser-marking tales ;-))
Cheers
steve