continue with bsac or transfer to padi

[dolphin07]

I am currently a qualified bsac diver (I had almost completed 2nd class diver)but did this some years ago I went on to do some commercial diving which I did for 5 years. I am now looking to get back in to it now that children are qualified Padi open water divers would like to go with them am I best to stay bsac or go padi only padi club are telling me I will need to start from the beginning again? can this be right?

[deandive]

wouldnt have thought so though it would be handy to have a modern recreational qual bsac hasnt used 2nd class diver for some time now not sure how long but i started in 95 and it wasnt used then perhaps if you did the bsac sports diver or padi advanced open water it would be a good idea how long has it been since you hav dived?

[PeteM]

I am currently a qualified bsac diver (I had almost completed 2nd class diver)but did this some years ago I went on to do some commercial diving which I did for 5 years. I am now looking to get back in to it now that children are qualified Padi open water divers would like to go with them am I best to stay bsac or go padi only padi club are telling me I will need to start from the beginning again? can this be right?

Nope they are just trying to get money out of you. PADI have an equivalent of our SALT process that tells them the level that they should treat you

[Ben Panter]

Hi Dolphin,

Both your and your children's qualifications would be accepted by BSAC branches, as long as the children were old enough. Dependent on the qualification, you would be allowed to dive with the branch on suitable dives, and, should you wish to, extend your training through the BSAC route. You might find that some refreshing is in order, and the branch would be able to help you out with that!

I can't give you the exact age cut off as it varies between branches - some prefer to not have U18s as members due to the increased liabilities and complications that brings. Where in the UK are you? Hopefully someone on here will know of a branch near you that would be suitable.

cheers,

Ben

[deandive]

can anyone outline 2nd class diver to save looking it up

[PeteM]

can anyone outline 2nd class diver to save looking it up

Sort of Dive Leader but not quiet from what I remember

[MattS]

can anyone outline 2nd class diver to save looking it upOne down from 1st class ;) Roughly DL/AD.

[GaryC]

can anyone outline 2nd class diver to save looking it up

Isnt it Advanced Diver. But I think the qualification is more than 20 years old.

In the Days of wetsuits and ABLJ's

Might need alot of refresher training.

[deandive]

perhaps a dive leader or rescue diver course may be more appropriate then

[deandive]

do you think the training would be out of date then?

[JamesW]

In the Days of wetsuits and ABLJ's


And big bushy Beards!!!!

[Adrian Kelland]

do you think the training would be out of date then?
2nd Class.

Pre Octopus/BSAC 88 tables/Nitrox. So some is not so much out of date, but absent. Boyle's Law is still the same though :)

[Edward]

I am currently a qualified bsac diver (I had almost completed 2nd class diver)but did this some years ago I went on to do some commercial diving which I did for 5 years. I am now looking to get back in to it now that children are qualified Padi open water divers would like to go with them am I best to stay bsac or go padi only padi club are telling me I will need to start from the beginning again? can this be right?

Hi Dolphin,

First off you earned your BSAC 2nd Class which is equivalent to today’s BSAC Advanced Diver. If you were to be close enough to my Branch I’d grab you as you have the experience (might be a bit rusty) of organising Branch trips including all the hassle factors of accommodation, travel and Branch boat availability, something that with all the charters available today is becoming a lost art.

Yes, there have been advances in technology and equipment configurations, but nothing you can’t catch-up on.

As Ben has suggested visit your local Branch(s) and see what sort of diving they are doing. Your children can continue to dive (and train, if they so wish) on the PADI system, but as BSAC members they dive with the Branch to their PADI qualification. A list of UK Branches can be found http://www.bsac.org/page/22/bsac-branches-by-region.htm

Regards and welcome back to the sport.

Edward

[Richard Whitcombe]

First off you earned your BSAC 2nd Class which is equivalent to today’s BSAC Advanced Diver.


Hang on a second, from the original post:

I am currently a qualified bsac diver (I had almost completed 2nd class diver)

(bold added by me).

[Steve in Sharm]

My take on this,

I am currently a qualified bsac diver (I had almost completed 2nd class diver)but did this some years ago I went on to do some commercial diving which I did for 5 years. I am now looking to get back in to it now that children are qualified Padi open water divers would like to go with them am I best to stay bsac or go padi only padi club are telling me I will need to start from the beginning again? can this be right?

Whilst the PADI club are only trying to lighten your wallet - cos thats what PADI do, they do have a point.

If you still think of yourself as a 3rd class diver (cos that is what you are, not having finished 2nd class etc etc) then you are soooo far behind the times that yes, you probably do need retraining. Kit and general diving as moved on a hell of a lot since you last dived!

Furthermore, if you had kept up your BSAC membership you would be a little more aware of these changes, in the days when you did your 3rd class you had to keep your membership up in order to retain the qualification, seeing as you let your membership lapse then your qualification also lapsed under those self same rules.......

So, to summise, Yes, you do need retraining, No dont go PADI, you will be 'dumbing down' if you do..... Find a BSAC club, and bring the kids!!!

Steve

[Mike Halligan]

OK, so here's someone who has fulfilled everything necessary to warrant immediate equivalence at SD. In a responsible club that would be subject to refresher, which a responsible diver will welcome. At the same time, the OP has done the vast majority of the immediate precursor to AD - which is most likely the current DL (on account of developments in equipment and techniques, not dumbing-down IMHO)

Maybe Edward has misread the OP, but I'd submit he's not far from the reality of the OP's situation.

[dolphin07]

richard whitcomb
you need to read the complete post as I didnt complete 2nd class diver because I went to do it commercially!!

[Edward]

Hang on a second, from the original post:

I am currently a qualified bsac diver (I had almost completed 2nd class diver)

(bold added by me).

Hi Richard,

Well spotted, my mistake, which means the OP was a 3rd Class Diver = today Sport Diver.

Regards

Edward

[dunny]

Sorry to state the obvious here but in your orginal post you said you went to train commercially. Commercial diving qualifications are recognised by BSAC see here: http://www.bsac.org/page/469/general-crossover-info.htm

Phil

[Richard Whitcombe]

Badly worded.

Did you finish 2nd class commercially or skip BSAC and go onto commercial qualifications? 2 totally different things.

[dunny]

I went on to do some commercial diving which I did for 5 years.
Thats pretty obvious to me, I'd say he went on to do commercial diving qualifications I.e. HSE. But we shall wait and see what he says.

[AndyDavis]

Whilst the PADI club are only trying to lighten your wallet - cos thats what PADI do, they do have a point...... No dont go PADI, you will be 'dumbing down' if you do.....

Steve, is there really any need for agency bashing on this thread?

The OP certainly sounds like some refresher training is needed - if only to update with the latest terminology, equipment and tables. Whether that refresher training is taken with a PADI school or BSAC club is largely irrelevant from a technical perspective - however, from a logistical perspective the decision will make a difference. If the OP decides to update with BSAC, then he will be learning different terms and dive with different tables to his children. It would make sense for him to get up to speed with the training that they had undertaken (especially if he wished to understand their dive planning and supervise them on dives). Of course, if there was a suitable BSAC club nearby, there would be nothing to stop the OP taking him and his children (with their PADI qualifications) along for membership.

I certainly don't believe that PADI, as an organisation, would deliberately wish to incur unnecessary costs for the OP. Most PADI centres/instructors are aware of the inter-agency qualification equivalences - but in this case, it is not surprising that a PADI instructor would be confused by the 2/3rd class diver qualification...as it has not existed for many years and would not be searchable on the t'internet. I am sure that the instructor concerned would have asked the OP many questions regarding his diving experience and would then have concluded (as have many contributors to this thread) that he would seriously benefit from re-training.

I also fail to see how entering the PADI system would be 'dumbing down' his dive education. PADI has been an industry leader in the introduction of many of the core activities now seen in diving (the introduction of Nitrox, multi-level and computer training...and more recently technical diving training). If the OP entered the PADI system at the 3rd class/sports diver level...then his next course with PADI would be the 'rescue diver' course....which is highly regarded by divers and instructors of all agencies.

[katdiver]

Good points Andy. I think in this case it's a matter of choice for the family, how they see themselves diving together in the future. Regardless of the system they choose, there will always be a price to pay and both offer excellent training. I think it's great that a diver is coming back into the fold so to speak and the children are diving too. Enjoy the refresher training or dive course and good luck!

[Steve in Sharm]

Steve, is there really any need for agency bashing on this thread?

Please re-read the post, when did I agency bash? I merely pointed out that 'paying for education' is PADI's one and only role in the dive industry!!


The OP certainly sounds like some refresher training is needed - if only to update with the latest terminology, equipment and tables.

Agreed, thats what I said didn't I? Re-read it...... "They do have a point"

I certainly don't believe that PADI, as an organisation, would deliberately wish to incur unnecessary costs for the OP.

Well no, they wouldn't would they? PADI only sell PICs and Instr training etc - its the DC's themselves that would be out to lighten his pocket.


Most PADI centres/instructors are aware of the inter-agency qualification equivalences - but in this case, it is not surprising that a PADI instructor would be confused by the 2/3rd class diver qualification...as it has not existed for many years and would not be searchable on the t'internet. I am sure that the instructor concerned would have asked the OP many questions regarding his diving experience and would then have concluded (as have many contributors to this thread) that he would seriously benefit from re-training.

Agreed again....... I did say that didn't I?


I also fail to see how entering the PADI system would be 'dumbing down' his dive education. PADI has been an industry leader in the introduction of many of the core activities now seen in diving (the introduction of Nitrox, multi-level and computer training...and more recently technical diving training). If the OP entered the PADI system at the 3rd class/sports diver level...then his next course with PADI would be the 'rescue diver' course....which is highly regarded by divers and instructors of all agencies.

Mmmmmm, Yep, I agree Rescue Diver is a fantastic course but, lets remember that this guy was 3rd class/nearly 2nd and once new all about Rescue from a SD level, he knew/or was learning all about stuff like:

Pactical Rescue Management
Charts, Tides and Position fixing
Boat Handling
Advanced Dive techniques
O2 Admin
Decompression Theory
Weather
Dive planning and marshalling
Search & Recovery

and other stuff I cant remember, now if you want to teach him Rescue rather than refresh this lot, then yes - he is dumbing down. And that is not agency bashing, its merely stating the bloomin obvious, Rescue Diver will not refresh his knowledge on BSAC stuff like tables and deco etc etc.

So, just to re-iterate and not 'bash' anyone..... Rescue Diver is a long way below his previous level and will, in no way shape or form refresh these skills/knowledge.

Regards

[tropical_shark]

A note about the tables! If commerical diving was done then it is possible that USN tables were used as this is what i have been trained to use for my commerical diving! I also dont see why these couldnt be used for recreational or for the padi children! It would keep it simple using on set of tables!

[Richard Whitcombe]

The BSAC 88s are a lot easier to use in my view than the PADI RDP (based on the USN tables). No need to add up RNT and so on.

Although i really dont think anyone should be using the 88s regularly these days. Things have moved on.

[AndyDavis]

Please re-read the post, when did I agency bash? I merely pointed out that 'paying for education' is PADI's one and only role in the dive industry!!

Hi Steve. Sorry, I wasn't trying to have a bash. From the wording of your post, it just seemed like an agency bash - which I know is not your style.

It is true that PADI wants to make money. Of course so, it is a commercial organisation, not a charity. However, that doesn't necessarily mean it is a rip-off organisation. Yes, they charge for diving 'per-course' - but those charges pay for dive centre operation, instructors fees and materials. It also pays for a lot of the research that PADI does and the construction of the excellent training materials they produce. Having professional instructors (professional as in 'employed') means that you gain a measure of 'customer service' from a PADI school (that may not exist within a club environment). This, in turn, means that you get more focus in the convenience and timing of the courses you take.

Well no, they wouldn't would they? PADI only sell PICs and Instr training etc - its the DC's themselves that would be out to lighten his pocket.

True - no arguments there... from your earlier wording though, it did seem as if you were commenting on PADI as an organisation. However, a PADI Dive Centre is only out to 'lighten his pocket' as would any commercial organisation. Would you dismiss restaurants or clothes shops as 'only being out to lighten your wallet'? Yes - they want to make a profit, but the chances are that they also care deeply about 'customer satisfaction', 'customer loyalty' and further 'word-of-mouth' marketing. This means that they are highly likely to be far more caring of the customer and far more likely to offer them the utmost in value-for-money than a normal club where 'you pays your dues and waits your time...and if you don't like it, lump it'.

Agreed again....... I did say that didn't I?

Of course Steve. Sorry for the misunderstanding, my entire post was not directed as a retort to yours. those comments were unrelated to your earlier post.

Mmmmmm, Yep, I agree Rescue Diver is a fantastic course but, lets remember that this guy was 3rd class/nearly 2nd and once new all about Rescue from a SD level, he knew/or was learning all about stuff like...

And yet, the rescue syllabus has been updated hugely in recent years.. especially with CPR guidelines, O2 Admin etc.

My main reason for 'championing' the rescue course for the OP was because I believe that a 'hands on' refresher of these SKILLS would be far more beneficial than a general 'academic' refresher of his wider diving KNOWLEDGE.

and other stuff I cant remember, now if you want to teach him Rescue rather than refresh this lot, then yes - he is dumbing down. And that is not agency bashing, its merely stating the bloomin obvious, Rescue Diver will not refresh his knowledge on BSAC stuff like tables and deco etc etc.

True - fair point. However, I was thinking that if he desired to get back into the water with his children, or even dive with most overseas dive centres on holidays... his memory of 88' Tables and Deco etc would be of very little use to him.

My argument, I guess, is that you say 'dumbing down', wheras I say 'focusing on the core basics'.

AND... I did say that my advice was for him to complete a/some PADI courses so that he has the same knowledge/terminology needed to support his children as divers...AND then he could join a BSAC club to enjoy that diving with his kids and develop himself/them along the BSAC system if needed.

[Steve in Sharm]

My main reason for 'championing' the rescue course for the OP was because I believe that a 'hands on' refresher of these SKILLS would be far more beneficial than a general 'academic' refresher of his wider diving KNOWLEDGE.

I'll give you that, although it wont refresh his tables etc etc.


True - fair point. However, I was thinking that if he desired to get back into the water with his children, or even dive with most overseas dive centres on holidays... his memory of 88' Tables and Deco etc would be of very little use to him.

My argument, I guess, is that you say 'dumbing down', wheras I say 'focusing on the core basics'.

AND... I did say that my advice was for him to complete a/some PADI courses so that he has the same knowledge/terminology needed to support his children as divers...AND then he could join a BSAC club to enjoy that diving with his kids and develop himself/them along the BSAC system if needed.

So can we all have a group hug over a beer or ten now :D

Steve

[Tony Edge]

This thread seems to have gone quiet but I have only just registered and have a similar story. I started diving 30 years ago and was also on my way to 2nd class then completely stopped. Once my kids qualified with PADI I started diving again via the PADI route. I had not planned to do anything more than holiday diving with the kids so it was a quick way back into diving. Yes things had changed BCs, octopus but they all made life easier and I quickly picked things up again. I have since returned to BSAC and am now a dive leader.

My guess is that the OP just wants to dive with his kids and is not really bothered what qualification he has. If its just for holidays I would go to PADI. If it is for more regular diving then I would join BSAC. With 5 years of commercial diving under his belt he will quickly pick things up and if the club DO has any sense he will get him qualified as quickly as possible so that he is an asset to the club.