Novice (1991) > Sports Diver

[Andrew Taylor]

Can someone please pass on there experience/advice to a puzzled trainer.

A lady has asked to join our club to continue her training. No problem there I hear you say. Unfortunately, the lady was trained/signed to Novice in 1991 (way back before there was even Novice I & II) and hasn't dived since, and has asked if she can continue onto Sports Diver.

Our club is split over this issue. Some suggest the lady should start again, but that seams somewhat draconian - surely her Novice diver grade must stand on it's own merit. Others suggest the lady should do the Club Diver > Ocean Diver transition and then Sports Diver. There appears to be good arguments either way. I am undecided. Could someone advise please.

Andrew Taylor
Training Officer
Hyndburn BSAC 0747
01706 836112 (work)
<a href="mailto:andrew@pmp-ltd.co.uk">andrew@pmp-ltd.co.uk</a>

[Mike Halligan]

Andrew,

I think there was a year's grace to continue Novice I/II to old Sports whilst Club Diver / new Sports was implemented. At the same time, a crossover was available I believe so that Novice I/II could set out on the new Sport Diver if so desired.

I recall no mention of transfer arrangements from Novice as opposed to Novice I/II at that time, and I'm sure there is none in the new syllabus.

I would have to ask what relevance the training delivered so long ago has to our syllabus today. I fear the answer is less than inspirational.

Sorry I cannot quote rulings published at the relevant times. However, in your situation, I would look to see what can be accommodated in crossover / SALT and then favour disregarding the rest.

Regards,

Mike Halligan
TO, Southport Branch (0278)

[edward haynes]

Andrew

It is down to your Branch Diving Officer to decide, as he/she is responsible for all diver safety and training on behalf of the National Diving Officer.

It is true that a diver qualification, once awarded, remains valid. That said, this lady has not been active for more that 10 years. Your Branch Diving Officer has a ?Duty of Care? to ensure she is adequately trained, for her own safety and for other Branch members.

I have dug out an old Sport Diving manual from 1991.

Novice (definition): A diver who is competent in the safe and correct use of all appropriate open-water aqualung diving equipment in a sheltered-water training area and is ready to gain open-water diving experience in the company of a dive leader or more highly qualified diver/instructor.

This diver grade did not rate CMAS 1 Star, yet Sport Diver was CMAS 2 Star.

Why not offer to sign over the Novice theory lessons that equate to Ocean Diver ones (if any), but suggest it is to her advantage to sit in on the next set of OD theory lessons anyway. As for the practical, put it across to her that equipment has changed considerably (an octopus was not that common then) and drills have also progressed (BB out ? AAS in).

There will always be differences in opinion on the solution IMHO if your re-joining member and Branch Diving Officer are in agreement, then go for it.

Would you ask a BSAC Second Class Diver (AD today) to undergo re-training if they haven't dived for 10+ years, I would, there are things an AD is taught that where assumed for 2nd Class - dive marshalling for example.

HTH

Edward

[EwanM]

As the lady in question has not dived for over 10 years and may not have done much diving even then, it is quite likely that she has forgotten some if not all of what she was taught (I've had trainees who don't seem to remember what they were taught the previous week!). One suggestion might be to get her kitted up and in to the pool and to go through the basic drills, etc. If she struggles, it should be fairly easy to persude her to retake the training without applying undue pressure.
Hope this helps.

[TerryH]

As the lady in question has not dived for over 10 years and may not have done much diving even then, it is quite likely that she has forgotten some if not all of what she was taught (I've had trainees who don't seem to remember what they were taught the previous week!). One suggestion might be to get her kitted up and in to the pool and to go through the basic drills, etc. If she struggles, it should be fairly easy to persude her to retake the training without applying undue pressure.


Absolutley.

IMO it doesnt make ANY difference what grade they are. If you
join a new club, you should be put through a skills review and
I would apply that to even a 1st class diver!

Of course you can approach it diplomaticly and kid them up a
bit, but any new face needs to be tested in the safety of the pool and not at 35m in open water.

TerryH

[Andy Wade]

:=As the lady in question has not dived for over 10 years and may not have done much diving even then, it is quite likely that she has forgotten some if not all of what she was taught (I've had trainees who don't seem to remember what they were taught the previous week!). One suggestion might be to get her kitted up and in to the pool and to go through the basic drills, etc. If she struggles, it should be fairly easy to persude her to retake the training without applying undue pressure.
:=

Absolutley.

IMO it doesnt make ANY difference what grade they are. If you
join a new club, you should be put through a skills review and
I would apply that to even a 1st class diver!

Of course you can approach it diplomaticly and kid them up a
bit, but any new face needs to be tested in the safety of the pool and not at 35m in open water.


Agreed.
Speaking as a 'First class diver', I wouldn't want to dive with a branch who took me on face value, without checking me out in some way or other. It's the least we should expect when joining a new branch.

It seems to me that the trainee in question should sit in on the lectures, have a check out skills session in the pool, and be assessed and discuss the merits of her performance with the DO, TO etc before agreeing some form of training schedule to bring her up to speed, and the discussion with them is very important IMHO. Justifying some retraining shouldn't be too hard if they feel it is necessary for her.
Had she been regularly diving for the 10 plus years then this would be less of an issue, but she should still have a check out dive at least.
It's not as if her original qualification was very high, re doing the training again is probably wise in this case.



.

[Lindsey Doyle]

A lady has asked to join our club to continue her training. No problem there I hear you say. Unfortunately, the lady was trained/signed to Novice in 1991 (way back before there was even Novice I & II) and hasn't dived since, and has asked if she can continue onto Sports Diver.

Hi,
I qualified as a "Novice" then "Novice II" in Aug 92 - both CMAS 1* -(& don't have any experience of instructing these grades).
There is NO mention of "Novice I" in my QRB..maybe people just called it that so's not to confuse it with NII?
"Novice" was all the theory & pool/sheltered water work..including a lot of rescue. Completing the 2 OW dives "NS10" & "NS11" made you a Novice II!
Personally I did all the sheltered water stuff in the sea anyway, but this lady may never have dived in OW, or may have "failed" those 2 dives.
In any case, I would definitely give her a 1:1 pool refresher course and encourage her to go through the OD lectures...she'll need them to help her pass SD anyway!! But maybe individual rather than group lectures, if convenient, so she doesn't feel like an absolute beginner? Going through an OD exam would be good prep for the SD one! Similarly, she'll surely need to run through skills from OD OW lessons for her own benefit..eg leading a dive.
HTH, Lindsey.