logged instruction time ?

[Wolfy]

hi people couple of points...

firstly
ive just completed the Open Water Instructors 1 day course, so now with supervision i guess i can teach in the sea.
question...when do i start logging my time of instructing ?

secondly
there seams to be something mising in my knowledge :)) (shh)
AAS scenario....im not sure the differences ( apart from the obvious giving not taking) between the donar/receiver procedures...i mean...in 1 you give a reg in the other they give you a reg ??? or am i missing something...

thanks for the help..

Wolfy,

[John Williams]

hi people couple of points...

firstly
ive just completed the Open Water Instructors 1 day course, so now with supervision i guess i can teach in the sea.
question...when do i start logging my time of instructing ?

The day you get back from the OWIC would be the time to start. Get it countersigned by any other NQI (Club Instructor or above.

Should point out to those that don't know - only Club Instructors who attend the OWIC have the option of logging hours to become an OWI - this is because they have already passed an assessment of competence to teach practical diving skills - on their CIE.


secondly
there seams to be something mising in my knowledge ) (shh)
AAS scenario....im not sure the differences ( apart from the obvious giving not taking) between the donar/receiver procedures...i mean...in 1 you give a reg in the other they give you a reg ??? or am i missing something...

You must have had a crap instructor on your OWIC!
(Don't tell anyone it was me!!!!)

It's a matter of who controls which stage of the DV transfer.

If you are the controlling donor then you are the one that presents the DV to the recipient and leads all the communication.

If you run out of air then you are usually the controllig recipient (i.e. you grab the Donors D-V) and you lead the communication.

The first method is preferable and much more civilised....but in the real world rarely happens. So the DTP addresses that situation and prepares you for both possibilities.

Give me a call and we can discuss it further if you like.



John

[Steve Walker]

there seams to be something mising in my knowledge ) (shh)
AAS scenario....im not sure the differences ( apart from the obvious giving not taking) between the donar/receiver procedures...i mean...in 1 you give a reg in the other they give you a reg ??? or am i missing something...

thanks for the help..

Wolfy,

I'm sure this has been covered several times before but I reckon it's worth repeating: you're teaching how to do CBL on an apparently unconscious casualty you've spotted as you're going about your dive, you spot them, go through the 'are they unconscious or asleep (or taking a piccie!)give them a shake and check their eyes to see if they wake up/are conscious' routine, get no response, then you start bringing them up using THEIR air supply. Shouldn't we also do a variation on this with OUR supply controlling the ascent? They may be unconscious because they're completely out of air.
Does anyone teach this? Not a particularly difficult task to do but I don't recall ever being asked to do this myself at any point
Regards

Steve

[Chris Ingham]

If you are the controlling donor then you are the one that presents the DV to the recipient and leads all the communication.

If you run out of air then you are usually the controllig recipient (i.e. you grab the Donors D-V) and you lead the communication.

The first method is preferable and much more civilised....but in the real world rarely happens. So the DTP addresses that situation and prepares you for both possibilities.

A couple of follow on points here.....

Under the new syllabus we are teaching divers to take the AAS from their buddy. Divers trained under the old syllabus will be expecting to see an out of air signal and to donate their AAS. So as instructors we need to make sure all the qualified divers in our branch are aware of the new standard.

My second point is a response to John's comment that "in the real world rarely happens". It seems to be a widely held view that if a diver is 'really' out of air they will panic and grab the first DV that they can find. My experience is that this is not the case. Confronted with an unexpected situation divers will react as trained.

[TerryH]

I'm sure this has been covered several times before but I reckon it's worth repeating: you're teaching how to do CBL on an apparently unconscious casualty you've spotted as you're going about your dive, you spot them, go through the 'are they unconscious or asleep (or taking a piccie!)give them a shake and check their eyes to see if they wake up/are conscious' routine, get no response, then you start bringing them up using THEIR air supply. Shouldn't we also do a variation on this with OUR supply controlling the ascent? They may be unconscious because they're completely out of air.
Does anyone teach this? Not a particularly difficult task to do but I don't recall ever being asked to do this myself at any point

Yep we do it. I originally did this on my PADI Rescue and so
have always added it once basic BSAC was finished.

I disconnect the BC hose underwater. Not only do you have no
way of inflating the BC, but you have to make buoyant either by
dropping the weighbelt or oral inflate.

You also need to go into: Is there BC ok? Yes, then use it.
If not then change hands/grip and use own.

Makes it far more realistic. Be careful with the weightbelt
ditch though. I grab hold of it as it's released. W/belt and
tiles dont mix.

Rgds
TerryH

[matt]

I agree completely.

[Rob Meddes]

I teach them to check the SPG before attempting a lift.
Good diving
Rob

[iainmsmith]

My second point is a response to John's comment that "in the real world rarely happens". It seems to be a widely held view that if a diver is 'really' out of air they will panic and grab the first DV that they can find. My experience is that this is not the case.

Based on a sample size of how many? If it's enough to be statistically significant, one perhaps ought to ask, "Why?"

Confronted with an unexpected situation divers will react as trained.

You missed out "some/most of the time".

Would you conceed that there is a reasonable posibility that a stressed diver will simply go for a DV? If so, that is a more stressful situation for the donor to have to deal with, regardless of which DV the OOA diver goes for (because of the lack of warning). As for training the divers to deal with someone going for the reg which, stressed, they are most likely to take...well, I guess my views on that are pretty well known on here, so I won't revisit it.

Iain

[Chris Ingham]

Yes I concede that there is a ?reasonable possibility? that a stressed diver will go for a DV. My point is that I have never heard of it actually happening.
My ?sample size? is just 2 occasions, which I admit is not statistically significant.
But I know of 2 occasions where stressed divers (and I know they were highly stressed from talking to them afterwards) reacted as trained and made an out of air signal. I know of 0 occasions where divers have panicked and grabbed a DV from their buddy.

Based on the above I challenge the view that an out of air diver will panic and grab the first DV they can find. Can you quote me any examples where this has happened? From BSAC incident reports? DAN statistics?

[PeteM]

Can you quote me any examples where this has happened? From BSAC incident reports? DAN statistics?

The guy that taught me to dive on his Sport Diver Assessment in Stoney Cove. Plus hearsay of other incedents

In my experience if the OOA diver gets very low on air and can do a transfer to AAS without actually running dry then it will be a nice text book transfer. If the OOA diver is dry then its a case of "S**t, I need air NOW" and grab what ever they can.

[Paul Oliver]

Hi Guys

I know of 4 occassions and each time the OOA Diver took his buddies alternative. 1 had watched his wind down on deco and had fully briefed his buddy in advance(2 very experienced divers), 1 had his air fail at the bottom of the shot in totaly black nil vis conditions and had to fumble for it (2 regular buddies). 2 others ran out during the assent and grabed buddies, then completed a normal assent (Both instructors doing an extra lesson on residual air).

Possibly coincidental, possibly a reaction following discussions, more likly training, experience and controlled reactions.

Regards

Paul