clip in halcyon harness

[Keith Littlebury]

Thought I would share this to get other peoples views on getting in and out of the halcyon explorer harness which comes without any buckles.
Having read the DIR book and bought the DIR gear (but not done the course) i set the harness up for twin tanks, correct positioning and trim etc, nice stable fit. Tried it in the pool and quarry over winter and all seemed ok.
However on my first boat dive of the season last saturday i found it impossible to get my arm out unassisted while bobbing about next to the boat. someone told me to try putting my hand behind my back and through the strap which i tried on sunday and that was also impossible.

To avoid further embarassment and possible dislocated shoulder, and after consulting other more experienced divers, I have resorted to putting in a plastic pinch grip release buckle in the left strap just above the d ring. (i know this is frowned on by DIR).
The good thing is that it only cost about £1.50 and it all threaded on fairly easily without me having to cut the harness. It forms a loop in the webbing giving about an extra 6 inches of strap from which to get my arm out. An idea I read in a similar thread last year. The only other thing I needed was two 3 bar slides to go above and below the clip to keep it in the right place.

[johnkendall]

Thought I would share this to get other peoples views on getting in and out of the halcyon explorer harness which comes without any buckles.
Having read the DIR book and bought the DIR gear (but not done the course) i set the harness up for twin tanks, correct positioning and trim etc, nice stable fit. Tried it in the pool and quarry over winter and all seemed ok.
However on my first boat dive of the season last saturday i found it impossible to get my arm out unassisted while bobbing about next to the boat. someone told me to try putting my hand behind my back and through the strap which i tried on sunday and that was also impossible.

To avoid further embarassment and possible dislocated shoulder, and after consulting other more experienced divers, I have resorted to putting in a plastic pinch grip release buckle in the left strap just above the d ring. (i know this is frowned on by DIR).
The good thing is that it only cost about £1.50 and it all threaded on fairly easily without me having to cut the harness. It forms a loop in the webbing giving about an extra 6 inches of strap from which to get my arm out. An idea I read in a similar thread last year. The only other thing I needed was two 3 bar slides to go above and below the clip to keep it in the right place.

Did you try letting some air out of the wing?

HTH

J

[Keith Littlebury]

Didn't think of that. In fact I was probably putting more air into the wing to keep myself up. The helper in the boat said air in the dry suit was stopping him getting the strap off the shoulder. I could give it a try next time before going for the clip. But would that make a difference to the tightness of the straps anyway if the wing is behind the backplate?

[Mark Papp]

IF you're going to put a clip in the harness I would have thought putting it below the shoulder D ring would stress it less than putting it above.

[Keith Littlebury]

IF you're going to put a clip in the harness I would have thought putting it below the shoulder D ring would stress it less than putting it above.




I went for above the D ring so it was uncluttered by back up torch and so it could be easily reached by buddy/boatman if necessary.

[johnkendall]

Didn't think of that. In fact I was probably putting more air into the wing to keep myself up. The helper in the boat said air in the dry suit was stopping him getting the strap off the shoulder. I could give it a try next time before going for the clip. But would that make a difference to the tightness of the straps anyway if the wing is behind the backplate?

Yep, makes a big difference. Try it and see. The way I work with small boats is to deflate the wing some, then pull the right strap off my shoulder while keeping the left on. Turn so the strap comes off the right arm then re-inflate the wing before taking my left arm out.

Easier to show it that write it.

HTH

John

[Michael Purcell]

To DIR or not is an individual choice. Got to comment and perhaps offer some advice. First you at least seem interested in the DIR approach, yet you abandon it in the time it took you to get your wing wet. :)

Slow down and explore if it is right for you or not...but make sure you are making an informed decision not a quick fix to something that may or may not be a problem.

An over-inflated wing as others have pointed out is crazy nuts to get out of. Also straps that are set too tight aren't doing you any favours. You don't want your wing sliding around but you don't want to be in tight bondage either.

(and of course these days there are "brands" of DIR so depending on who you are talking to it can change, but I'm sure you will find (as you pointed out) a break point defintely NOT DIR.)

I love my harness and find it very comfortable but I have to admit it may have also caused me some medical problems I am working through now. Just to counter my own advice, if you are finding something just doesn't feel right, DO take the time to figure it out as soon as possible. Don't just shrug it off and decide to "MAN UP" through it.

[SteveF]

Keith
I certainly found there was a technique for getting out of the wing and it took me a few dives before it became second nature. I undo the quick release, dip my right shoulder and ease out the right arm first - as others have said, make sure the wing is not over-inflated first.
Steve

[MattDuke]

I'd make a humble suggestion to anyone reading this. Don't dive a single piece harness on UK sea dives without getting the appropriate training.

Best case: You look silly on the surface and upset the crew.

Worst case: You either fall over on the deck breaking something or someone or alternatively you drown on the surface.

The Hogathian rig was no designed for British club diving, boat skippers and BS-AC trained divers. The rig introduces some benefits, but also some drawbacks. In my humble opinion having a quick release (EG Stainless Steel buckle low down on shoulder strap, under backup torch) makes sense for British divers, who don't have the appropriate training and don't have buddies/crew with similar training and understand.

Mixing and matching this kit without the training is very risky, gives the rest of us a bad rep & will end up killing someone.

Disclaimer: I'm a diver with GUE training and I dive a single piece harness. However, I dived a "nearly hog rig" with break point for many years, and then finally removed the clip after furthering my education and reviewing the diving I do. Had I still thrown myself off RIB's into enourmous south coast waves I'd have a really hard time convincing myself that the advantages of a singlepiece outweigh the disadvantages. With the training and team, they make sense. Without the training and team they are a very bad idea indeed.

I hope this is taken as advice and not a flame.

[Fiona]

I'd make a humble suggestion to anyone reading this. Don't dive a single piece harness on UK sea dives without getting the appropriate training.

Worst case: You either fall over on the deck breaking something or someone or alternatively you drown on the surface.



:confused:

I dive a one piece harness and it is more about technique than training. I have a clip attached to the long hose which when clipped off to the D ring can be used as a lever when getting out of the harness on the surface.

We went to the Galapagos last year and the sea conditions were similar to UK sea diving and most of our dives ended up with a RIB trip, the 3 of us diving one piece harnesses had no problems at all, in fact some people with multiple clips took longer :)

[Keith Littlebury]

Thanks for all the advice. I do intend to do a fundamentals course in due course but in the mean time will heed the advice given here.i.e. dont overinflate wing, right arm out first, keep the break in for time being.

[Fiona]

Keith, if you are intending to do fundies why not get rid of the break and practice with the kit you will need to be familiar with.

[johnkendall]

Thanks for all the advice. I do intend to do a fundamentals course in due course but in the mean time will heed the advice given here.i.e. dont overinflate wing, right arm out first, keep the break in for time being.

Hi Keith,

I see that you're in Norwich. I'm based in Cambridge, so if you wanted a backplate fitting session (including how to get in and out of it) then let me know and I'm sure we could arrange something.

Thanks

John

[Gareth]

Matt's comments seem very reasonable. I know he has the experience, having evolved through different configurations from the faithfull Buddy to his current rig.

One additional point, in the event of a rescue a single brake point makes a significant difference, when it comes to recovering a casualty, especial in none ideal conditions.

I know that the option is to cut the harness, but having been involved in rescues in the past thats just another problem to deal with. It wastes more valuable time when the priority is getting the casualty to a point of safety so that effective RB & CC can be commenced.

That said, if it works for you great. As long as it doesn't compromise my safety I have no problems with it.

Disclaimer: Have been using a harness for in excess of 10 years, with a breakpoint. Although the harness has evolved over the years, the breakpoint remains. The harness ii used both for OC & CCR.

Gareth

[Fiona]

One additional point, in the event of a rescue a single brake point makes a significant difference, when it comes to recovering a casualty, especial in none ideal conditions.


Gareth

Gareth have you tried to get someone out of a one piece harness ? again it is technique.

However if you need to I have no problems with you using a set of shears on mine if you need to ;)

[PeteM]

However if you need to I have no problems with you using a set of shears on mine if you need to ;)

Same for me, a couple of quid for a new bit of webbing is not going to break the bank. I even point out my trauma sheers as part of the buddy check

[Gareth]

Fiona

I've run an exercises getting people out with different equipment configurations including a onepiece harness. With the casualties 'unconcious'.

I've did it in moderate seas, & we both picked up a few brusies, nothing serious, except I took a wack on the head (good job its my densist part:) ).
I dropped the trauma sheers & my folding knife. Luckily my folding knife is tied on so I was able to complete the exercise.
We didn't cut the webbing, although I have cut webbing in the past, & found it hard going.
The boat was a simliar size to a 105.
We had the boat next to us, rather than the boat standing off. With the boat next to you, the boat has a tendancy to roll onto you & there is a lot of white water. However, I think I prefer the bumps & brusies to the boat standing off & the real risk that you loose the diver once he's free of his bouyancy device. As with all rescue situations I don't think you can specify one solution.
A rear lift helps significantly because you can often get a fully kitted diver onto the lift then dekit them on the boat, however, you have to be very carefull of the casualties head. Most lifts aren't deep enough to lie the casualty on, you almost need them sitting, which requires third person on the lift to support them.

As a result of the exercise I would suggest tieing on any 'critical equipement' (like Trauma Sheers) with a combination of bungy & line, the bungy will stretch to allow you to use it, if really despirate you can cut the line.
The other issue, & is not restricted to onepiece harnesses. Is that in a moderate to heavy sea once you have released the diver from the harness / Stab / BC. There is very little to hold onto, so its very easy to loose contact with the casualty. A throwing line with a loop in it is very handy here.

On a simliar vein I had to assit a diver out of the water after a big Oxtox. On to a large boat (Converted Trawler). Luckily the sea was reasonably kind, but releasing the diver from his equipment was still fun, I think we lost a stage in the effort. Getting him up the ladder was still difficult even though he was concious, we almost had to winch him up. I was already out of the water & dekitted & had to get back in to assist with the dekitting.

Gareth

[Keith Littlebury]

Keith, if you are intending to do fundies why not get rid of the break and practice with the kit you will need to be familiar with.


Well I'll keep it in for my next few dives and see if I can get out without using it using the strategies mentioned on this thread. thanks.

[Keith Littlebury]

I see that you're in Norwich. I'm based in Cambridge, so if you wanted a backplate fitting session (including how to get in and out of it) then let me know and I'm sure we could arrange something.


Thanks John, I'd like to take you up on that. How do I get in touch?

Keith