Spooked by the Thistlegorm

[SamanthaS]

Hi,

I have been holiday diving for about 4 years now. I only have 50 dives. Last week my boyfriend and I were in Sharm on holiday for a week. We got about ten dives in that week and decided we would like to dive the Thistlegorm.

An early night without alcohol and we were on our way. The weather wasn't as good as the guide had hoped. There was only one other couple on the boat to dive with us. We all descended the line. The current was reasonably strong, but not too bad.

As soon as I started to focus on the wreck I was scared and upset. I didn't want to be there, I didn't want to ruin the dive for everyone else. I decided to try (unsuccessfully) to keep calm and just finish the dive. My buddy realised I wasn't happy and we checked our air. The husband from the other couple was by this time sharing the guide's air. I had to share my buddy's air .
Before we were going up the line I had 10 bar and my buddy 20 bar. We went up the line really quickly to the safety stop but my buddy couldnt get the tank opened before I ran out of air. I did panic and swam for the surface, coming up under the boat. The boat crew were really quick getting me out of the water. I had a headache and felt tired for a few hours. I am fine now but I was worried then.

I did another dive as I didnt want my diving to have ended like that. People asked me why I was so upset and dont understand when I say that I was scared and upset by the boat.

I have just bought a drysuit and am anxious to start diving in Scotland but I dont want to feel like that again. I suppose I'm just looking for reassurance.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Samantha

[Mike Halligan]

I did another dive as I didnt want my diving to have ended like that. People asked me why I was so upset and dont understand when I say that I was scared and upset by the boat.

I have just bought a drysuit and am anxious to start diving in Scotland but I dont want to feel like that again. I suppose I'm just looking for reassurance.

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

Samantha,

Forget the factors you've added since the dive. You didn't like Thistlegorm, it happens. You now know how your reactions affect your diving, that's good. You weren't the only one to gulp air, so you didn't spoil anyone's dive, it was a combination thing. I'd guess the entry and the current probably didn't help.

Wrecks can be spooky, especially when they are recognisable as ships and not just a pile of rotting metal on the bottom of the sea. After many wreck dives, I still subscribe to the view that ships are built to be intact and operational on the surface of the sea, not sitting immobile on the bottom. But now I can ignore their improper location and enjoy the life they attract.

One way to change your opinion is to visit some of the flattened wrecks around the British Isles, where only engines and boilers are immediately recognisable. There are some beauties around the Farnes and Anglesey. Then try a really huge slab-sided effort like Aeolian Sky off Portland or Akka in the Clyde and move on to the open-sided ones like Thesis and Shuna in the Sound of Mull before visiting a more complete wreck again. Since you didn't like Thistlegorm, leave Hispania, Rondo and Breda for a while. Your appreciation will change with familiarity and practice.

You've proved that your training has conditioned you to behave safely even when scared and that you enjoy most of your diving. You're just unhappy with some wrecks. If you want a real treat, visit the Rainbow Warrior and enjoy the overall view. Or go and see one of the Leander class frigates lurking here and there (there's one off Plymouth I'm told). HMNZS Waitangi is worth the trip, so long as you do 5 dives elsewhere in the Poor Knights as well.

There's loads of potential, enjoy exploring it.

Hope this helps,

[Maria CM]

HI Samantha,

Have you done other wreck dives before? Thistlegorm is quite forbidding I think, if you are not used to them, from sheer size alone, the fact that the vis can be bad, it can be colder, as well as current, and needing to drop down a line which just adds in extra stress. Also, it feels quite isolated - no nice reef to look at too.

Certainly no fun on a stressful dive to come up with that pressure of air.

Carnatic is a pretty, non-military looking wreck which is much smaller and feels much more like a standard dive and is probably a good bet to get over Thistlegorm, lots of pretty fish and coral when you are next in Red Sea.

I think you did exactly the right thing doing another dive afterwards - you don't want to end on a sour note.

Were you guided properly for it? I'm surprised that they let you get that low(zero) on air whatever rate you were breathing at. Lots of people find Thistlegorm stressful so guzzle air on it, so most guides watch out for that.

Don't let it put you off, just save trying Thistlegorm again for when you have lots of wreck experience.

The headache and tiredness were probably from stress, over breathing and clenching on your mouthpiece.

best wishes and a big hug,

Maria

[Falco]

We`ve all had bad experiences diving in one form or another. I hope you hav`nt been put off permenantly

You may need to start off gently again. My advice is to do some shallow diving, maybe from the shore, with someone who can get your confidence back.

From then, it`s a matter of progressing to some more adventerous stuff, at your own pace.

Remember, diving is not a competitive sport. Diving out of your comfort zone impresses no one, and destroys your confidence.

However you decide to handle the knock back, I hope you stay with it and enjoy the sport

[Turtle Dude]

You are definately not the first Samantha nor the last to be spooked and I suspect intimidated by a large open wreck.

The sheer scale can easily spark many a "what if..." in the head.

Don't be put off, as the good advice above sugested, try some flat wrecks with smaller bits, not a big 'un in a large expanse of water.

Even after 20 years, especially when sunk upright, I get the shivers looking at 'em.

Fear not, there are lots of other nice things to see.

[Turtle Dude]

...and take it easy getting used to the dry suit.

They do take a bit of getting used to (spoting squeeze, over inflation, floaty feet, another inflator, not being able to pee...)

[Maria CM]

...and take it easy getting used to the dry suit.

They do take a bit of getting used to (spoting squeeze, over inflation, floaty feet, another inflator, not being able to pee...)

Girls do not wee in wetsuits anyway!!!:p

best wishes,

Maria

[NickBCotswold]

Hi Samantha

dont worry! we're all spooked by something, whether its spiders, snakes or whatever!

I remember being spooked the first time I did the stanegarth at 20 m at stoney cove - - suddenly realised on the point of entry that my brain didnt like venturing into something dark that i didnt know in 6 degrees and poor light! it was at that point i realosed i DO suffer from claustraphobia! therefore i aborted first time and practised on the smaller attractions at stoney till i was ready for the stanegarth.......now i love it!

sounds like a case of "too much too soon" with the thistlegorm! dont worry, your training kicked in and the most important thing was that you were aware of the dangers - such as monitoring your air under stress etc......

like everyone else on the thread, congratulations on the way you handled it - and to get back in to finish the holiday deserves a load of credit, not sure i would of had the "nads" in the same circumstances! also like others advice, try some shallow dives (i'm finding i'm enjoying 25m dives far more than most 35m dives at the mo!), build up experience and then you know you're ready for a wreck such as the thistlegorm........

good luck!

[andywg]

Girls do not wee in wetsuits anyway!!!:p

best wishes,

Maria

I hope they do, otherwise that would imply my wife is not a girl... ;)

[Turtle Dude]

Girls do not wee in wetsuits anyway!!!:p
Maria
Naw, girls do..... but ladies never... ! ;)

[paul_c]

im not clostrophobic by any means but im not totaly happy going into natural caves when diving especialy the small ones.

however after i was taken into the bell gave at zuria at which i watched an advanced diver whio is larger by far than me (and im, not small) and was forced to enter as his buddy i became a bit better in that i wont discount entering a cave off hand anymore, ill have to size it up in dive to see if i feel comfortable

[RSB]

Hi,

Don't worry about getting spooked. Everyone has times on dives where they feel rubbish/scared/anxious, just like everything else they do in life.

The problem with the dive though wasn't you feeling scared, it was the air:
"Before we were going up the line I had 10 bar and my buddy 20 bar."
This should not happen. You need to keep a careful eye on your air, and need to have enough air to get yourself and your buddy to the surface, doing all necessary deco stops, if your buddy runs out of air at any point on the dive. You also need to remember that pressure guages are very inaccurate at under 50bar. You really need to come up on reaching 60/70bar.

Getting so low on air that you need to share your buddy's should not happen, except unless there is equipment failure (unlikely), of course... don't be afraid to bin a dive if you are getting low on air or feeling stressed, anyone can bin a dive at anytime, safety is more important than cutting other people's dives by a couple of minutes.

[Steve in Sharm]

Hi,

Don't worry about getting spooked. Everyone has times on dives where they feel rubbish/scared/anxious, just like everything else they do in life.

The problem with the dive though wasn't you feeling scared, it was the air:
"Before we were going up the line I had 10 bar and my buddy 20 bar."
This should not happen. You need to keep a careful eye on your air, and need to have enough air to get yourself and your buddy to the surface, doing all necessary deco stops, if your buddy runs out of air at any point on the dive. You also need to remember that pressure guages are very inaccurate at under 50bar. You really need to come up on reaching 60/70bar.

Getting so low on air that you need to share your buddy's should not happen, except unless there is equipment failure (unlikely), of course... don't be afraid to bin a dive if you are getting low on air or feeling stressed, anyone can bin a dive at anytime, safety is more important than cutting other people's dives by a couple of minutes.

I'm glad someone finally brought this up (I didn't want to be the 1st Mr Nasty).

Why wasn't the dive binned earlier? It should have been called off as soon as you felt bad, it should definately have been called once you realised you faster than normal breathing rate (now dont anyone go telling me that this could have been avoided cos we all watch our gauges and would see the rapidly diminishing supply.....).

Your guide will have given you a brief along the lines of "100 bar, start making your way back to the lines, 80 bar start up the lines......"

Why didn't you listen to the brief and follow the instructions given?

Perhaps if you had you would have felt better during the dive!

And of course - the same goes for your buddy if they only had 20........

Now another Q. Where you 'bullied' into going? cos it sounds like you are not yet up to the challenge of such types of diving and an unscrupulous dive guide happily sold you the trip to line their own pockets.

It'd be nice to know the name of the operator as well, you say that another diver was sharing the occy of the guide - how dangerous is this??? This alone should be reported to his boss's and such an unsafe gide be sacked.


Regards

Steve

[Mark Papp]

Getting so low on air that you need to share your buddy's should not happen, except unless there is equipment failure (unlikely), of course... don't be afraid to bin a dive if you are getting low on air or feeling stressed, anyone can bin a dive at anytime, safety is more important than cutting other people's dives by a couple of minutes.Why wasn't the dive binned earlier? It should have been called off as soon as you felt bad, it should definately have been called once you realised you faster than normal breathing rate (now dont anyone go telling me that this could have been avoided cos we all watch our gauges and would see the rapidly diminishing supply.....).

The points raised about the air are valid, but the most important thing is that diving is done for your enjoyment.

If you want out, let your buddy (and guide) know and leave with your buddy. If you're concerned enough about the dive to not want to do it, don't get in the water.

It's difficult to avoid the feeling that you're spoiling a dive, but your buddies will understand and support you. One day it will be them who calls the dive.

If your buddies don't support your decision, or question it in anything other than a concerned way to see if they can reassure you, change your buddies.

It's a shame, but the confidence to call dives often comes with experience, when the time you really need it is over!

Have fun diving and remember it's not compulsory. There's a well-worn cliche that it's better to be on the boat wishing you were in the water, than in the water wishing you were on the boat.

[AndyMCrowe]

Your guide will have given you a brief along the lines of "100 bar, start making your way back to the lines, 80 bar start up the lines......"

Why didn't you listen to the brief and follow the instructions given?



This would be the briefing from the same guide who already has someone on their octopus and hasn't called the dive off. I suspect the briefing wasn't all it was supposed to be. Obviously guides vary from highly experienced and safety conscious to cowboy outfits who may be putting the lives of their customers at risk.

Something that maybe we don't stress enough to our newly qualified divers is that they should have the courage to call off a dive if there's something wrong. Certainly it's something I'm now trying to stress with the people I know are going away this summer to dive. Up to this point they have only ever been with an attentive instructor and not near the limits of their skills or experience. By gaining the Ocean Diver, PADI open water, etc. they have shown the ability to manage their own diving and use their own judgement to decide what's safe or not.

[Nigel Hewitt]

Have fun diving and remember it's not compulsory.Huh? I thought having fun was compulsory.

While Steve is right to call you on watching your air a bit better the Thistlegorm is big and for a lot of people it is a first real wreck penetration dive. If it spooked you try and find some less spooky dives and chill out a bit. Deep and dark is not everyboy's cup of tea.

[ChristianG]

This would be the briefing from the same guide who already has someone on their octopus and hasn't called the dive off. I suspect the briefing wasn't all it was supposed to be. Obviously guides vary from highly experienced and safety conscious to cowboy outfits who may be putting the lives of their customers at risk.

Something that maybe we don't stress enough to our newly qualified divers is that they should have the courage to call off a dive if there's something wrong. Certainly it's something I'm now trying to stress with the people I know are going away this summer to dive. Up to this point they have only ever been with an attentive instructor and not near the limits of their skills or experience. By gaining the Ocean Diver, PADI open water, etc. they have shown the ability to manage their own diving and use their own judgement to decide what's safe or not.
In which case why do they have to be nannied by a dive guide?

I frankly still cannot get my head around this dive guide business, especially in the Red Sea.

[Michael Purcell]

In which case why do they have to be nannied by a dive guide?

I frankly still cannot get my head around this dive guide business, ...

Anytime I go to a new place I enjoy scoping out a guide I get on with and who has local knowledge. When I go to Mexico I have no qualms about booking my GUE instructor as a guide. Not for instruction but for someone that can educate you about the local environment and such.

Of course if I go with the PADI follow the leader dive and my wife is with me we are sure to give the guide quite a headache if he is keen on keeping the pack together. Usually we will give him the first dive to let him assess us but after that we kind of do our own thing. TBH having seen a lot of the holiday divers out there it is no wonder why the dive guide business is thriving.

[Steve in Sharm]

[QUOTE=AndyMCrowe]This would be the briefing from the same guide who already has someone on their octopus and hasn't called the dive off. I suspect the briefing wasn't all it was supposed to be. Obviously guides vary from highly experienced and safety conscious to cowboy outfits who may be putting the lives of their customers at risk.QUOTE]

Which is why it would be nice if Sam would name and shame - then others going to the wreck could be warned off that outfit....

Sam, If you are worried about doing it in public - PM me, then I can show your thread to the council here and get something done.

Regards

Steve

[Alison Boler]

Samantha
Sorry you had such a horrible experience and good for you for going in for the second dive - that couldn't have been easy. If it's any comfort at all, dives like this happen to a lot of people along the way and the best that can be said is that you learn from them and move on. You know now that in strenuous/stressful conditions air gets used up very fast - particularly the deeper you go - very fast. On future dives, it would be a good idea to monitor your air on a very regular basis, not just because it is a critical safety precaution but so that you get an idea of how much gas you personally use. It is not at all unusual when you are a reasonably inexperienced diver to breathe quite heavily - anxiety only heightens this. If you find that on a normal holiday dive of say 20m in clear water you are getting less than say 35 minutes out of your 12l cylinder, you are probably quite a heavy breather and there are some yoga type exercises you could try to help improve this, it may improve on its own with experience or you might consider using a larger cylinder. I don't want to get into all the nitty gritty of this, but just would advise you to just check yourself to try and work out your air consumption.
The Thistlegorn can be a gas guzzler of a dive if the current is running. I'm sure you checked your air before you jumped in, but what happened then? Did you have to swim to the down line? Was that swim against the current, did you have your reg in for the swim? Did you check your air again at the top of the down line before descending? Truly, I have known people who have consumed over 50% of their air just getting from the back of the main boat to the top of the downline on the Thistlegorn and I suspect that possibly you did.
So, another good tip is: if you've had a stiff surface swim to reach the downline, check your air again. Another tip is, this is a great occasion to use a snorkel instead of your reg (I knew there was a reason for those things!). Instead of putting your head down with your reg in and swimming on the surface to the buoy, put your snorkel in and use the free air, not the stuff in your cylinder. Sometimes its easier to swim on your back too - depends on the strength of the current.
Also, quite often, I would imagine the descent to the Thistlegorn might make you nervous. Unlike many other spots in the Red Sea where it's glassy clear and you can see it from the surface, I've been there when its been a bit murky and you can't see it and you're descending the line - blowing in the current - and you can't actually see where the line's going other than into the murk. This can be very unnerving till you get used to it. But, you will get used to it. That's why the line is there, to give you a bearing and the confidence that you are going to a specific point and that whilst you are in contact with it, you can also get back to the surface. So, always check your air again at the bottom of the line. It's a good spot to do it as part of your "adjustments" before moving away to explore. If the worst has happened and you have gulped a lot, at least you will know while you are in a strong position to ascend.
And as others have said, if you feel - at any point - on the surface, on the line - anywhere - that you're not happy, not comfortable whatever, just end the dive and don't feel in the least bit uneasy about doing that. Some of the most experienced divers in the world who dive in extreme conditions will tell you that they have called dives on a gut feeling and been glad they did.

Steve, I'm all for rooting out the bad guys but on the other hand this guide could have been having the dive from hell - which no matter how good his brief - could happen - where he is approached by a wide eyed madman with an empty cylinder and was trying to get that one to the surface while others also run out of air.... at the end of the day, you can tell people to monitor their air, you can tell them to tell you when they get to 100 bar, you can even ask them what their gauge is reading but....
However, wasn't there a divemaster/tail end charlie in the water too and the site conditions don't sound wonderful or exactly ideal for divers with very little experience and probably not much recent experience. So.... root..... :)

Sam - keep going. You have shown that you can keep your head under unpleasant conditions and can congratulate yourself that you did not panic and that you "got back on the horse".

All the best
Allie

[Maria CM]

I would say that people without too much experience, in a new scenario, put a lot of trust in their guide. I've known people who on thistlegorm have had a hundred bar when they turned back on the top of the wreck (and bear in mind if it is a new experience and you are diving one holiday a year you are likely not to be majorly aware of where you are on the wreck) and still hit the line with 20 bar and had to share air for the safety stop.

best wishes,

Maria

[Alison Boler]

Yes, I know and agree very much, but it is difficult. When I first started diving in the Red Sea, there were less rules in some ways (depth for instance,fish feeding, coral awareness) but they paid a lot of attention to your diving experience and history. I've seen people with less than 50 dives being refused Shark Reef when the dive guides knew the current would be running - often in the face of great protest and annoyance. Nowadays, we have developed a dive culture where the diver is taken out to any commercially visited site subject to depth limits and the belief is that the dive guide will "sort it all out". I believe that this is a bit of a spin off from the prevalent standards of entry level training that don't stress enough from the very beginning that you should be a thinking independant diver. I obviously exempt the BSAC in this, because I do think we teach this, but I also teach/have taught other systems and this is not true there - they teach to follow. Many people now learn these systems and they are not so used to the idea of sorting themselves out.
My first instructor told me that as a diver there were risks to the sport that could kill me, but to die from being out of air had to be the stupidest way to go of all because it was (slight generalisation) totally preventable if you followed procedures. Harsh words, never forgotten.

So, do trust your guide - but only as a back up to yourself. Once you are qualified, you have to get your head around the fact that you are the one in charge of your own personal safety. Any other attitude will get you in trouble because the guides are only human and besides you don't know enough about them to know whether you can trust them just because they are wearing the badge.
Allie

[Maria CM]

Absolutely agree Alison!

I still remember the horror when my instructor (not bsac or padi) said, "right, you've done one nav dive - you are now leading the group and I will only intervene if things are going disastrously wrong, not if you just get a bit lost -you are resposible for leading the group to four different locations and getting back. If you have to skip any of them because you are lost, I still expect you to be able to get everyone back to shore".

OK, it was only Stoney but highly scary at the time.

Started good habits though - I'm not complacent about where I am and which direction I'm going in on any dive. I don't put my complete trust in any guide (if there is one), and identifying my own boat while underwater is important to me! (going to the wrong one is just too embarrassing to do more that once:) )

best wishes,

Maria

[Tony Dwyer]

I hope they do, otherwise that would imply my wife is not a girl... ;)

Andy

I smell blackmail points. Shall I tell Nina :)

or Beer?

[Mark Cowgill]

[QUOTE=AndyMCrowe]This would be the briefing from the same guide who already has someone on their octopus and hasn't called the dive off. I suspect the briefing wasn't all it was supposed to be. Obviously guides vary from highly experienced and safety conscious to cowboy outfits who may be putting the lives of their customers at risk.QUOTE]

Which is why it would be nice if Sam would name and shame - then others going to the wreck could be warned off that outfit....

Sam, If you are worried about doing it in public - PM me, then I can show your thread to the council here and get something done.

Regards

Steve

Hi Steve,

I think We should research and use recomendations when We go on such a trip as the Red Sea,After all its a big trip for most of us, It takes a lot of organizing and would be worth the extra effort of people finding out who was happy with which guide,Boat,Hotel etc. When I was going to Sharm I spent a bit of time on this Forum asking peoples opinion and got quite a lot of useful advise.of course You use Your own judgment once the info has been gathered.
I feel that Sams Guide was a bad one.

Anyway while I am here I will recommend a Guide, SUZUKI, We got Him as our guide on the Orchid this Year and He was exceptional, He managed to keep His eye on everyone and was checking peoples air regular,and making sure everyone was comfortable during the dives, ok We were all quite experianced divers, but even so, He still checked us out on the first shallow dive and made sure. ( which no one should object to ).
He did not make You feel as though You were on a leash or being Mothered either.
I dont know if Guides only work for one particular company or if You can request that they be Your guide on any boat, probably not I suspect, but it would be nice if You could that.
And I also think that if You can request Your Guide, it would soon get rid of the ones people are not happy with.




Regards Mark

[cmac]

Loved reading that post - Iv just started diving and its good to read other peoples fears (not in a sick way, it just hammers home how important it is to stay safe).

[ChristianG]

Loved reading that post - Iv just started diving and its good to read other peoples fears (not in a sick way, it just hammers home how important it is to stay safe).
I don't know about "safe" but it is always better to consider that there is always the option of another dive. Nowt wrong with that at all.

The adage has always been that you can opt out, but how difficult is that? You have a buddy who really wants to do that dive, as the simplest example, yet you don't feel happy about it? Which way are you going to be tugged?

IMO go with No1 - that's you. So don't do it, the SCUBA books and learning say exactly the same but peer pressure could, can easily persuade you to say the opposite. Don't give in to it.

[SamanthaS]

Hi,

Firstly, thank you all for taking the time to post replies, it is much appreciated. I have read them all and have taken on board all that has been written.

I want to respond to as many questions posed as possible. If I miss something out please let me know.

Mike Halligan - I'm glad that you understand the spooky feeling. I have printed off your post and will follow your advice regarding the order of wrecks to dive. You are right, the current and entry didn't help. Thank you.

Maria CM - I have dived other wrecks, the Chrisoulak and the Stavronikita. The Stav was also deep and had bad currents, but I didn't feel spooked by it. I was aware that I was going through my air, I tried to slow and control my breathing, I think I was on 150 bar when I reached the wreck, I showed my buddy when I hit 80 bar and did signal the guide, at this point in time we were less than half way through the dive, the guide then started sharing air with another diver and when I reached 50 bar my buddy had 90 bar, we then shared his air for a short period of time. I could have ascended earlier but I had been warned about the currents, I hoped I could control my breathing so that I had enough air to end the dive. The last 10 bar went so quickly.Thanks for the hug x

Falco - Thanks for encouraging me. i will stay with diving. I am doing my drysuit open water dives soon, I'm really looking forward to it.

Turtle Dude - Thanks for your encouragement. It's nice to know other people get the shivers too. And ladies do not pee in wetsuits.

NickBCotswold - Again, thank you for your encouragement and admitting that you have been spooked too. I do intend to just gradually build up my experience.

PaulC - Thank you for admitting that you have to size it up in dive to see if you feel comfortable. I should have been more aware, I will be in future. I wasn't spooked until I was down there just looking at her, then I felt bad.

RSB - You have told me something I wasn't aware of; pressure guages are very inaccurate at under 50 bar. I didn't know this. This is very important information and I am now wondering what else I may not know. I will not make the same mistake again and will simply abort the dive at 70 bar. Thank you for replying with this information.

Steve in Sharm - You are not Mr Nasty, you are Mr Safety. I did listen to the briefing. It detailed where we would arrive at the wreck, the route we would take and to advise the guide when we hit 100 and also 50 bar. I did that, I fully accept that I should have ended the dive earlier than I did. I was not bullied into going, it was my idea, I wanted to go and be there until I saw the wreck. I will pm you the operators details. Thank you for being so honest. I do appreciate the advice and criticisms of those who are more experienced than me, the purpose of posting was to learn from my mistakes and hopefully stop others making them.

Mark Papp - I do enjoy diving, the other 10 dives I had already done on holiday were thoroughly enjoyed. Yes, I should have aborted the dive. I presumed perhaps incorrectly that the guide would then come with us and it would have ruined the others dive. I wanted to be on the dive until we were at 27m looking at her. My dive buddy would never question my decision. The reassurances about ending a dive given by yourself and others have given me the confidence to now end a dive in future if I am not happy. Thank you for your advice.

Nigel Hewitt - I will watch my air more carefully in the future. I will try and chill out a bit, thanks for replying.

Andy MCrowe - I didn't have the confidence to call the dive off. If one newly qualified diver learns from this it is worthwhile. Thank you.

Christian G - You are right, if it had just been me and my buddy I probably would have ended the dive sooner. I will in future. Thank you.

Michael Purcell - I am an inexperienced diver and my view is that I have a lot to learn. In a foreign country I usually go to a dive shop recommended and do some dives with them, I am trying to build up my experience and education. Thank you.

[SamanthaS]

Loved reading that post - Iv just started diving and its good to read other peoples fears (not in a sick way, it just hammers home how important it is to stay safe).

Glad you have learned from my mistakes, hopefully it will make you a safer diver.

[SamanthaS]

Sorry, I just realised I haven't replied to all the posts. I will complete replies to the other posts tomorrow. Thank you all.

[Maria CM]

Did you have to swim to the down line?

:eek: I've just taken this in properly - swim to it? You mean, not just jump off the back off the boat and catch hold of the line???????? That's hard work!!! No, no, no, no no...... can't even entertain the idea! Does that happen on day boats, seriously?

best wishes,

Maria

[Alison Boler]

Oh yes!!!! I've had to do this on the Thistlegorn lots of times! Sometimes they are kind and run a current line but it can be a really stiff swim :) In fact thinking about it, Maria, I've had to swim to the line more often than not on both day boats and liveaboards. Again, I put it down to less than empathetic guiding. A lot of the guides are so very water fit, not dragging any excess weight, maybe 20 years younger than a lot of their punters that it is nothing to them to do it. I've seen dive guides free dive a line down to the Thistlegorn which is something I couldn't even begin to do. And its not only on top of the water. Haven't you ever followed someone who was ploughing on along the reef right into the face of a current that had you finning at the top of your strength to keep up??? It's bad guiding but it does happen.

:(
Allie

[Maria CM]

Oh yes!!!! I've had to do this on the Thistlegorn lots of times! Sometimes they are kind and run a current line but it can be a really stiff swim :) In fact thinking about it, Maria, I've had to swim to the line more often than not on both day boats and liveaboards. Again, I put it down to less than empathetic guiding. A lot of the guides are so very water fit, not dragging any excess weight, maybe 20 years younger than a lot of their punters that it is nothing to them to do it. I've seen dive guides free dive a line down to the Thistlegorn which is something I couldn't even begin to do. And its not only on top of the water. Haven't you ever followed someone who was ploughing on along the reef right into the face of a current that had you finning at the top of your strength to keep up??? It's bad guiding but it does happen.

:(
Allie

Aahh! This explains it - I normally go with the club and Maria our instructor hassles them to within an inch of their lives if things don't go the way she wants them. We use a few operators and tend to know the captains etc. I can't imagine Maria letting anyone get away with not running a line, particularly as the north trips have more inexperienced divers on them as a rule. My expectation is to use arms only to descend to Thistlegorm to conserve air.

Yes, I have had that happen ref current. Mind you, on one of them where the current was running the opposite way to normal on Shark and Yolande, the guide was the one that gave up:D Bizzarely, he was trying to swim directly in the middle rather than keeping close to the reef edges.

And, I don't think it is lack of empathy half the time, I'm am strongly of the opinion that a lot are pompous and pious about it, and they like to see the less experienced and less fit struggle a bit so they can do a darn good patronise! (That's me being contentious for the morning:D;) )

best wishes,

Maria

[JimW]

(That's me being contentious for the morning:D;) )



but.....
if you can't patronise your patrons who can you patronise:p
(that's my attempt at alliteration for the morning:rolleyes: )

Jim:cool:

[Maria CM]

but.....
if you can't patronise your patrons who can you patronise:p
(that's my attempt at alliteration for the morning:rolleyes: )

Jim:cool:

LOL

I am content to be contentious about the patrons who are patronised...

best wishes,

Maria

[Maria CM]

[
Anyway while I am here I will recommend a Guide, SUZUKI, We got Him as our guide on the Orchid this Year and He was exceptional, He managed to keep His eye on everyone and was checking peoples air regular,and making sure everyone was comfortable during the dives, ok We were all quite experianced divers, but even so, He still checked us out on the first shallow dive and made sure. ( which no one should object to ).
He did not make You feel as though You were on a leash or being Mothered either.
I dont know if Guides only work for one particular company or if You can request that they be Your guide on any boat, probably not I suspect, but it would be nice if You could that.
And I also think that if You can request Your Guide, it would soon get rid of the ones people are not happy with.




Regards Mark

We regularly request particular guides or captains (within the same fleet) - nice to see pals again too!:)

best wishes,

Maria