Isnt it time?

[TerryH]

Following on from the Explorer's thread. Isnt it time we started a name & shame policy?

Works both ways. If you had a good holiday why not post that
as well?

And if you want a perfect example, check the link.

www.holidaysuncovered.co.uk

TerryH

[Trevor Mathers]

Following on from the Explorer's thread. Isnt it time we started a name & shame policy?

This may invoke threads which are of a libelous or slanderous nature..... Needs to be handled carefully but probably worth having. I'm sure most clubs have people/companies with whom they 'wouldn't do business'.

Trev

[Edward Haynes]

[TerryH]

This may invoke threads which are of a libelous or slanderous nature..... Needs to be handled carefully but probably worth having. I'm sure most clubs have people/companies with whom they 'wouldn't do business'.

Trev

Agreed, but maybe some lawyers out there can clarify.
If I am recounting my own personal experience and state quite
clearly that's the case, is that libel?

There are quite a few holiday websites which do exctly that
and don't seem to have any problems.

TerryH

[Dave]

:=
:=This may invoke threads which are of a libelous or slanderous nature..... Needs to be handled carefully but probably worth having. I'm sure most clubs have people/companies with whom they 'wouldn't do business'.
:=
:=Trev

Agreed, but maybe some lawyers out there can clarify.
If I am recounting my own personal experience and state quite
clearly that's the case, is that libel?

From my understanding, if you make statements which may be true from your experience but derogatory to the company and you don't have good evidence to back up your statement, then it could be

Dave

[Simon Moore]

The usual position is that, provided the person providing the information does so to a person (or group of people) who has a legitimate interest in receiving it, then there will be no defamatory statement (however untrue that statement may ultimately be proved to be) unless the provider of the information is motivated by malice i.e a desire to harm the subject of the information. It's called "qualified privelege".

So honestly telling it the way it happened to you (even if it turns out you are wrong)and what you felt about it because you want us to know for our own benefit is no problem. Telling it wrong because you want to damage, say, the tour company in question means you are heading into a dangerous area.

Of course, the conveyors of that information (including this web site) can't be expected to know which is which, so you will find those monitoring this web site exercising caution with any suspect posting once brought to their notice. Which is largely why, however unsatisfactory some may have found Keith's approach to the JB episode, he was correct from a legal perspective to do what he did.

[BSAC Travel Club Co-ordinator]

Whilst it is obviously important to let travellers know about destiations which don't look after divers properly for whatever reason, we naturally have to be careful about what goes into print about bad practices, service etc. There is some scope for reporting purely factually on this sort of thing. However, there are so many excellent places to go to that BSAC Travel CLub would far rather we concentrate on those and encourage divers to go to new and exciting destinations and to have a better informed choice of what's good. We hope the reports that will build up in the coming months will reflect this. It is more interesting to readers to be able to research positive reports and make consructive choices about where to go. Let's highlight what is good, guys! David

Following on from the Explorer's thread. Isnt it time we started a name & shame policy?

Works both ways. If you had a good holiday why not post that
as well?

And if you want a perfect example, check the link.

www.holidaysuncovered.co.uk

TerryH

[Andy Wade]

Whilst it is obviously important to let travellers know about destiations which don't look after divers properly for whatever reason, we naturally have to be careful about what goes into print about bad practices, service etc. There is some scope for reporting purely factually on this sort of thing. However, there are so many excellent places to go to that BSAC Travel CLub would far rather we concentrate on those and encourage divers to go to new and exciting destinations and to have a better informed choice of what's good. We hope the reports that will build up in the coming months will reflect this. It is more interesting to readers to be able to research positive reports and make consructive choices about where to go. Let's highlight what is good, guys! David


That paints a rosy picture though, and it may not be deserved, I'd suggest that people who are dissatisfied give a 'reasonably honest appraisal' and stop just short of slagging a company off, they could then pose the following question to themselves:

"Would I dive with them again?"
"No," or "Not really."

And leave it at that, people can take whatever inference from it that they wish, without there actually being a libellous comment about a company or person.
I remember my Dad told me once that when an ex-employees prospective new employers rang him up and asked what kind of worker they might be getting, he just used to say a similar thing, then he couldn't be accused of bias against them in their future job. He'd never say that they were a time waster or a poor worker. He considered it to be unfair to do that, even though he might have sacked them for skiving off continuously or constantly cocking-up jobs.

[TerryH]

Ok, how about this for a real example.

Cuba, a couple of years ago.
Dived with what seemed to be an OK/average outfit.
Boat/logistics etc. were fine and we had about 6 dives without
any problems although the attention span of the guides, shall
we say, were a bit lax.

On about the 8th (and second, shallower) dive we were in a
group of six divers. Four guests and two new Canadian PADI OW
divers. The guide was using and being taught by the other
guide how to use a camera whilst still looking after us.

It was very obvious as soon as we hit the water that both
guides were going to pay as little attention as possible and so
I signalled to my buddy (another Instructor) to go wide, so we
had the two newbies slightly in front and between us.

Fifteen minutes into the dive and the guide had started framing
shots/adjusting strobes etc. It was at this point that one of
the newbies started to panic and the other in attempting to
help, went balistic.

I went for the polaris while my buddy took contol/calmed down
the heavy breather.

So, do I name and shame this outfit. The diving was great, as
long as you knew what you were doing. The guides were
inattentive and not prepared to assist new divers.

If there are BSAC (or any other agency) divers out there
planning a holiday, wouldnt it be nice to know what these guys
are like?

I would happily dive with them again, but I would not bring
newbies or reccomend them for any training.

Is it libelous to name them?

Well shouldnt we start telling everybody what we actually find
at these places?

TerryH