View Full Version : Very Grateful and Impressed With BSAC!!!
Hi All!
Just thought I would join the forum because of the way BSAC members have treated me!
Let me explain.
My wife and I foster children with difficult behaviour etc.. and at xmas had a lad of 15 move in with us. I had given up smoking and decided to take up diving as a "reward" so I took him with me for a try dive at a PADI centre. We both got hooked and talked to our local BSAC club in Grimsby. We got a warm welcome and without joining, they invited us to snorkel with them every Thursday night. Many kids pass through our care, and I just turn up with them and the club make them welcome and show them how to snorkel etc..
The foster lad decided to take scuba diving as his subject for a Duke of Edinborough Award, I talked Social Services into sponsoring him but he decided to fast track the training and go PADI. To cut a long story short, we had a very bad experience with the PADI centre but we were still swimming with the BSAC Club on Thursdays.
The Grimsby lads were VERY sympathetic, offered to lend us their own personal gear, they are always at the end of a phone if I need help or advice, helped my lad to regain his confidence, and one instructor even offered to give up his Easter weekend and travel to Capernwray as a safety diver to help me complete my PADI TRAINING when they told me they couldn't cover the course with their own PADI staff !!!!!!
They could have had a "told you so" attitude but they didn't!
Because of the money I have already paid to the PADI centre, I will have to complete their Open Water Course (but with another centre on referral, costing me more money) and my next move will be to join BSAC and further my training with the Grimsby lads (and lasses).
My opinion of PADI, is very low, and the training is rushed and although I will be qualified to dive with a buddy, unless he is way more experienced or a BSAC diver I couldn't do it.
A BIG THANKYOU to BSAC GRIMSBY:D
SteveB
Alex Liddon
16-03-2008, 15:50
What better PR could BSAC have.
OH and theres more!!!!!!!!
I quote from my letter of complaint to PADI:
"Whilst waiting for my course at Capernwray, I decided to take an EFR course ready for my future Rescue Diver course. I was so disappointed. I sat for about 4 hours with a book, did the exam, had one go with the resuscitation dummy, NO bandaging, NO AED machine to practice with, and I thought a waste of £60. Oh and they couldn’t remember one of the students names so couldn’t send off the card application for 3 weeks, really efficient!!! Lucky I have already studied First Aid."........
"We were issued with drysuits etc.on the day of the course, WITHOUT any training in a pool"...................
The water Temp was 5 degrees......
"When he (15 year old lad) took his dry suit off, it had leaked badly and he had to change every item of clothing. He went in for his second dive and came out after 5 mins as he couldn’t stand the cold and refused to dive EVER again.
I went in the water and completed dive 1 and came to the surface. I was left bobbing about in the water for about 5 to 10 minutes, then carried out dive 2. I was VERY cold and suffered cramp and was never so pleased to get out of the water and get warm. I had spent about 55 minutes in the water....."
"I approached another PADI Centre who have agreed to finish my course, but when they looked at my log book, told me that it had not been completed properly and I needed to take it back and sort it out before I can take a referral. I am now going to have to pay again for the referral. ......."
The motto of the story is, if you want training properly to a very high standard for less money ....GO BSAC!
Ben Panter
16-03-2008, 16:43
OH and theres more!!!!!!!!
I quote from my The motto of the story is, if you want training properly to a very high standard for less money ....GO BSAC!
Hi Steve,
Welcome to our forums, and I'm very happy to hear that you've found a solution. I'd caution though that it's not necessarily a problem that you've had with PADI - it's a problem with a particular school who choose to be a PADI operation. They're not all bad, and it doesn't really do this site or BSAC any favours if we appear to tar them all with the same brush!
As I said, glad that you've got a group of people willing to help you - and I hope you enjoy getting into the fun stuff after qualifying.
Safe diving,
Ben
(Forum Admin Team)
OH and theres more!!!!!!!!
I quote from my letter of complaint to PADI:
"Whilst waiting for my course at Capernwray, I decided to take an EFR course ready for my future Rescue Diver course. I was so disappointed. I sat for about 4 hours with a book, did the exam, had one go with the resuscitation dummy, NO bandaging, NO AED machine to practice with, and I thought a waste of £60. Oh and they couldn’t remember one of the students names so couldn’t send off the card application for 3 weeks, really efficient!!! Lucky I have already studied First Aid."........
"We were issued with drysuits etc.on the day of the course, WITHOUT any training in a pool"...................
The water Temp was 5 degrees......
"When he (15 year old lad) took his dry suit off, it had leaked badly and he had to change every item of clothing. He went in for his second dive and came out after 5 mins as he couldn’t stand the cold and refused to dive EVER again.
I went in the water and completed dive 1 and came to the surface. I was left bobbing about in the water for about 5 to 10 minutes, then carried out dive 2. I was VERY cold and suffered cramp and was never so pleased to get out of the water and get warm. I had spent about 55 minutes in the water....."
"I approached another PADI Centre who have agreed to finish my course, but when they looked at my log book, told me that it had not been completed properly and I needed to take it back and sort it out before I can take a referral. I am now going to have to pay again for the referral. ......."
The motto of the story is, if you want training properly to a very high standard for less money ....GO BSAC!
Hi Steve
The EFR course is broken into 2 parts Primary Care (CPR) and Secondary Care (First Aid).
You can do just the Primary Care (CPR) or just the Secondary Care (First Aid) if you have an CPR cert. I would say £60.00 would be the full course. The AED is Optional add-on and can or can not be done I allways add it in on my courses.
I agree with Ben that its not PADI or EFR its down to the centre or instructor to give you what you paid for if it states on your pic card CPR/First Aid/AED and you have not had all of this training then the standards have not been met.
So you have two ways to go phone up the centre and speak to the owner or report them to EFR. When you filled in your PIC card if you put down your email address then you will automaticlly get an QA email from EFR. I allways ask my students to put there email address down.
I am sorry that you have had an bad experience with a EFR course it only takes one bad egg.
Best of luck with the rest of your training.
James
Chris Cherrington
16-03-2008, 17:16
... I'd caution though that it's not necessarily a problem that you've had with PADI - it's a problem with a particular school who choose to be a PADI operation. ...
I'd like to agree with this as well. I'd also point out that not all BSAC branches are as good as the one you have been lucky enough to find.
I'm really pleased for you and hope you enjoy diving. Don't however, start off on the wrong foot by thinking somehow that there is an inherent advantage to either the BSAC or PADI (or NAUI or YMCA or SAA or SSI etc etc ) You will miss much of what great advantage there is to be gained from training with different agencies/companies/branches over the coming years.
Chris
I understand what you are saying and the guys at the other PADI centre were brilliant and did everything they could to help me. I am not getting into a PADI versus BSAC thing (you guys have enough of that) and I am not naive enough to think there are not also suspect people in other clubs etc...
BUT.............
I am a real newbie to the sport, and this sport is dangerous if not taught right. I have children in my care that have no sense of danger, luckily the lad in my care was not one of them. I have enough problems being nervous for myself without worrying if the kids are OK! LOL!!!!
I have had one bad experience but I hope PADI will sort it. Not close them down but make sure students are trained in safety rather than centres worrying how much rings through the till. (this centre has made a lot of money off me for scuba gear).
I think I wanted to sing the praises of the Grimsby club as they portray the right attitude to others and the sport.
I just wanna go diving feel confident and safe and have a laugh.
This is one of those life long ambitions I wanted to fulfil before old age stops me dead! I remember buying a mask with a snorkel from the local market for 2/6 and wearing it while watching Sea Hunt, that really dates me, I was 5 year old!!!LOL!!!
Need a couple of answers off you guys if possible, do I post them in another section?
Regards,
Steve
I only have the pink temporary card and it states primary and secondary care but I stipulated I wanted the full course including AED.
I also wanted Care for children, for obvious reasons but they didn't know about it and dismissed it as not needed.
Regards,
Steve
As the others have said, I am pleased that you found your local BSAC club, & thank you for saying so, its nice to have 'happy stories':D
With regard posting queries, post in the 'Just started diving', it will probably be appropriate, if not the admins will move it for you.
Welcome to the sport, I hope you continue to enjoy it, & good luck:)
Gareth
I only have the pink temporary card and it states primary and secondary care but I stipulated I wanted the full course including AED.
I also wanted Care for children, for obvious reasons but they didn't know about it and dismissed it as not needed.
Regards,
Steve
Hi Steve
With regards to the AED it is optional but, you should of been shown how to control external bleeding by direct pressure by using dressings/bandages.
The care for children course can be combined with the EFR Primary Care (CPR) and Secondary Care (First Aid) could be a few reasons why they did not want to do the main one is no baby resus doll.
Thanks
Primary care covers the use of barriers and basic life support stuff, c.p.r etc and the secondry care covers the looking after the patient including the bandaging and splinting, so it should of been covered in the course, and practiced
Did you watch the EFR DVD aswell or was that missed out.
Maybe the instructor wasn't qualified to teach care for children, but you shouldn't of been told that you don't need it. Especially when you are the paying customer.
Sounds like they've comitted a breech of standards, you haven't recieved the level of training you've paid for so take it up with the outfit/instructor or EFR themselves.
HTH
EFR Instructor
One go on a resucitation dummy is not good training
Mike Halligan
16-03-2008, 19:36
One go on a resucitation dummy is not good training
Excellent post, with a real sting. I hesitated (briefly) before mentioning SD training, First Aid for Divers and O2 Administration - all of which can be done in-Branch.
Welcome to BSAC, Steve.
Maybe the instructor wasn't qualified to teach care for children,
All instructors trained after 1st July 2005 can teach the CFC.
I agree one go on the resus doll is bad.
James
I did watch the EFR DVD in the lesson but if I wasn't already trained in first aid and confident if I ask my branch they will cover it, I would be annoyed.
I was taught on an ordinary resus dummy how to deal with children when I took first aid in a factory!!! (no I am not that old we had kids working there! LOL)
The other PADI centre has offered to help me with the EFR and children qualification and I have a meeting on Tuesday with them.
I am afraid Grimsby will have their work cut out when I join ( training officer on holiday at the moment) .
To sum up, I feel like I have bought my diving qualification and not earned it.
I just wanna get it over with and go on a few trips.
Looking forward to no hassle, peace , quiet, and lots of bubbles!
Regards,
Steve
Mike Halligan
16-03-2008, 20:33
I'm sure they will cope :D
There are good PADI schools and bad ones, just as there are good BSAC clubs and bad ones.
However, when you find a good club I think it's by far The Best Way to go diving. I'm very pleased to have found the right club for me. :D It's brilliant.
However, it's not just down to the club, it's also down to the trainee diver as well, and reading your post Steve it's great to feel the passion and the enthusiasm for the sport.
Go for it! (Even if Grimsby is the wrong side of t'river ;) )
Janos
Thankyou to all of you for listening to my problems.
I will let you know how it works out.
Regards,
Steve
Wait till you hear my accent Janos, I am a born and bred Staffie. Moved to Grimsby last May:D
I need to think up one of these witty bits at the bottom hmmmmm .........
Had a phone call today from the other PADI Centre.
They have given me a discount on a referal, offered me extra pool training if I need it,full Dry suit speciality for the price of the registration(£25) including 2 extra dives, and they apologised? I said it was not their fault, and they don't need to do all this, but it does restore my faith in PADI centres. (I know some of you will think that they will be making money out of me later etc...).
I am still joining BSAC at the end of the week and I am REEEEEAAAALY looking forward to the sports diver training as I bought an old manual off Ebay 2 weeks ago for a couple of quid. (I know I get a new one but couldn't wait).
Richard Whitcombe
17-03-2008, 19:03
There are standards for courses and from what you said above about the EFR those were broken. There are mandatory exercises which weren't completed.
Yes write to PADI giving details of where, who the instructor was and so on (this will be on your EFR card).
This isnt the agency at fault here, its the instructor and the only way to police that is to inform the agency - they cant deal with a problem they dont know exists.
No agency is immune from lazy/poor instructor syndrome, not PADI, not BSAC, not SSI and so on.
I have actually wrote to PADI via email and they have read it.The PADI centre that is helping me is also contacting the local area manager so he can have a chat with me, all positive.
The way I work is this, When I take a course of any description, do I know enough or have the confidence to use the knowledge I have gained?
If the answer is no. is it my fault or the instructor?
Then I sort it out, either by further training or complaining about the level of training.
If i went diving with a buddy now, I feel I am a liability. Some people (and kids) don't posess a capacity to have a concious and in a sport like this it worries me.
It was like when I took my HGV1, the first night I sat in a truck on my own I was bricking it! Then they sent me from the Midlands to Scotland!!!!!
I am lucky to be very experienced in first aid and have had to use it on a number of occaisions in some really serious circumstances. The EFR course was basically a top up to enable me to take a rescue diver course and I killed 2 birds with one stone as I needed a first aid course for my fostering.
Regards.
Steve
NickBCotswold
19-03-2008, 09:32
Had a phone call today from the other PADI Centre.
They have given me a discount on a referal, offered me extra pool training if I need it,full Dry suit speciality for the price of the registration(£25) including 2 extra dives, and they apologised? I said it was not their fault, and they don't need to do all this, but it does restore my faith in PADI centres. (I know some of you will think that they will be making money out of me later etc...).
I am still joining BSAC at the end of the week and I am REEEEEAAAALY looking forward to the sports diver training as I bought an old manual off Ebay 2 weeks ago for a couple of quid. (I know I get a new one but couldn't wait).
been following your thread with interest steve.......
glad you seem to have got it sorted and well done the PADI centre for listening and offering a solution........
enjoy SD training steve, hope you enjoy it as much as I did......
Nick
I am in dialogue EVERY DAY with PADI HQ (they are contacting me not the other way around) and there is a Quality Management department investigation underway. They are 200% behind me to resolve it quickly.
I have got to go to the PADI Centre in question tomorrow to get my paperwork signed etc.. to enable me to refer to another centre, which I am not looking forward to.
I will not be around over the weekend as I have got to travel back to the Midlands to visit my dad. He was diagnosed with cancer a month ago. I will update the thread when I get back.
Regards,
Steve
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