Thinking of Crossing Over

[John_Ca]

Hi

I have been diving for 4 years. I have done around 130 dives, mostly in the UK. I have got to know a small group of divers on the East coast, one of whom has his own boat. They are all BSAC trained, whereas I am PADI (Rescue Diver).

I am therfore, thinking of crossing over, so that I can dive to BSAC tables with my buddies (ie. do decompression stops). Am I better joining a branch or going for BSAC Direct, as I already have someone to dive with on a regular basis?

Regards

John C

[Gareth]

John

BSAC Direct don't do training. BSAC direct is a mechanism to remain a BSAC member, you effectively join a branch run from HQ.

If you wish to do any further training you are left with two options.

1. Join a BSAC branch
2. Train at a school (which are both UK & overseas based).

Option 2 would allow you to specify a particular qualification,pay your money & do the course (i.e. like a PADI qualification)

Option 1 will probably take longer to achieve a qualification.
A branch provides other benefits, more divers so more potential buddies. On going training, more trips (as orgainised by the branch), equipment (such as compressors, boats etc).

Gareth

[NickBCotswold]

Hi

I have been diving for 4 years. I have done around 130 dives, mostly in the UK. I have got to know a small group of divers on the East coast, one of whom has his own boat. They are all BSAC trained, whereas I am PADI (Rescue Diver).

I am therfore, thinking of crossing over, so that I can dive to BSAC tables with my buddies (ie. do decompression stops). Am I better joining a branch or going for BSAC Direct, as I already have someone to dive with on a regular basis?

Regards

John C


would suggest checking out a local BSAC branches.....

doesnt stop you diving with your mates and you might make more mates to dive with!

[Chris Cherrington]

....

I am therfore, thinking of crossing over, so that I can dive to BSAC tables with my buddies (ie. do decompression stops). Am I better joining a branch or going for BSAC Direct, as I already have someone to dive with on a regular basis?
....

There are a number of issues rolled into one here.

Firstly to use the BSAC 88 tables does not require you to join the BSAC. Indeed I suspect many of us use a computer rather than the 88s to be honest.

Second as an RD you are a no-stop diver. Further training would be advisable to undertake deco diving. This means joining a branch to do your Dive leader or doing a course like TDI Decompression procedures.

Third you can join a BSAC branch for all its benefits if there is a good one near you. If you prefer to dive with your friends but want to join BSAC anyway you can join BSAC Direct, or better still join an Internet branch like the one I run ;)

What is best for you depends on your circumstances and more detail than you have given us.

Chris

[Nigel Hewitt]

Is this the point where I risk putting my head on the block and ask why?

We like training, we recommend training but it is not compulsory. For a small step, like adding some stops when diving with buddys who know what they are doing, it's pushing it a bit.

Much as I'd like to sell up BSAC you want a simple deco procedures course by anybody rather than an RD to SD crossover just to do SD deco. Unless my memory deceives me it is one lecture and we all know it's pretty trivial. The only important things about deco are hitting your run times, holding your depths, planning your backup and managing the psychological hit of the glass ceiling closing in above you. (I confess the first time I saw two minutes of mandatory stops on my wrist was far more scary than the first time I saw an hour.)

[John_Ca]

Is this the point where I risk putting my head on the block and ask why?

It's just for insurance purposes. I'm perfectly happy using BSAC tables or following my computer. It's just that if the s**t were to hit the fan I'm diving outside my certification.

[Chris Cherrington]

... rather than an RD to SD crossover just to do SD deco. ...

I'm not sure how that would work Nigel.

PADI RD is the equivalent learning level of BSAC SD. Someone crossing over would start their BSAC Dive Leader training.

I would imagine that the PADI trained person could attend the lectures and have a small "lesson" with a BSAC instructor and easily then claim the same level of decompression entitlement as a BSAC SD. This I feel sure would satisfy the insurance companies.

John are any of the people you dive with BSAC instructors?

Chris

John another option (assuming you have a PADI Nitrox or equivalent) is the BSAC Advanced Nitrox certification which is at regional level (ie not done in branch) and is only about 60 quid or so. This would give you a recognised deco ticket at a low cost. You could join BSAC Direct or us (cheaper ;)) and then do this in your area. More details on the BSAC website http://www.bsac.org/page/591/advanced-nitrox.htm

[John_Ca]

John are any of the people you dive with BSAC instructors?

No Chris, none of them are instructors.

[Nigel Hewitt]

I'm not sure how that would work Nigel.

PADI RD is the equivalent learning level of BSAC SD. Someone crossing over would start their BSAC Dive Leader training.Neither am I but I'm sure we can take in RD and 'fill in the gaps' so they can dive as SD to everybody's satisfaction.

I don't know from experience as I came over with a whole mess of other qualifications and didn't touch any SALT stuff until I wanted to do an IFC years later. I still assume I am on Branch dives under my outside qualifications but I have somehow been assimilated into the BSAC hive.

[NickBCotswold]

talking of crossing over, does it ever happen the other way, ie, BSAC SD crosses over to PADI? would an SD become a PADI AOW with RD ??

kind of confusing when PADI seems to have seperate courses!

[Chris Cherrington]

talking of crossing over, does it ever happen the other way, ie, BSAC SD crosses over to PADI? would an SD become a PADI AOW with RD ??

kind of confusing when PADI seems to have seperate courses!

All training organisation have different syllabus and routes through the system. BSAC SD is entitled to start PADI RD in the same way PADI RD is entitled to start BSAC DL. This doesn't make either diver "equivalent" its just a measure of what part of the other organisation's syllabus they are deemed to have done already.

True "equivalence" doesn't exist but a "sort of" does through CMAS. Sadly the entitlement in terms of depth etc is not fixed in CMAS so a CMAS one star diver (PADI OW, BSAC OD) can have different depth limits, in the examples given 20m under BSAC and 18 under PADI.

These things are also dynamic as the courses change and dynamic in entitlement. When I did PADI RD in 1992 it was a 40m ticket but is now a 30m ticket.

Confusing is definitely the right term Nick. :)

Chris

[Adrian Kelland]

talking of crossing over, does it ever happen the other way, ie, BSAC SD crosses over to PADI? would an SD become a PADI AOW with RD ??

kind of confusing when PADI seems to have seperate courses!
RD is a PADI grade.

Some do go the other way, but do not assume SD = RD. There is more rescue to RD than is taught in SD. In the same way (if I have it correctly) RD is missing deco for example.

Adrian

[MattS]

Neither am I but I'm sure we can take in RD and 'fill in the gaps' so they can dive as SD to everybody's satisfaction.

I don't know from experience as I came over with a whole mess of other qualifications and didn't touch any SALT stuff until I wanted to do an IFC years later. I still assume I am on Branch dives under my outside qualifications but I have somehow been assimilated into the BSAC hive.As I understand it, SALT does not provide equivalence. A crossover does not hold a BSAC qualification until they have fully completed whichever course SALT makes them eligible to take. Ability may not be in doubt but such laborious issues as life assurance may well be.

For a while now I have thought it might be worth BSAC providing formal crossover courses which grant full equivalence with the SALT grade. It can only make it easier to assimilate the growing numbers of PADI crossovers and make life a little easier for DOs and DMs.

[JamesW]

Try to speak to Jonathan Edwards :D

[PeteM]

It's just for insurance purposes. I'm perfectly happy using BSAC tables or following my computer. It's just that if the s**t were to hit the fan I'm diving outside my certification.

Go and do a TDI Decompression procedures course, teach you everything you need and will mean you are diving within your certification.

If you want to join a BSAC branch then join one, but there is little point joining one for the sake of getting a cross over or doing a commercial SD or DL course when the short and more focused deco procs is all you need (and to be honest probably more useful to)