Suggestions please .....

[Mike Halligan]

I've been contacted by a Branch who are making great progress teaching a profoundly deaf student (at OD level right now). There are many resources available to them, some of which I've been able to pass on. We've also discussed the general principles behind the BSAC's inclusive approach. However, and here's your challenge .....

Can anyone suggest sources of support for the Branch which is doing so much but which wants to do the very best possible job for this person?

Please don't be shy and please don't detract from other ideas. I've deliberately not specified what we've looked into, so that no idea is pre-judged.

[TerryH]

I've been contacted by a Branch who are making great progress teaching a profoundly deaf student (at OD level right now). There are many resources available to them, some of which I've been able to pass on. We've also discussed the general principles behind the BSAC's inclusive approach. However, and here's your challenge .....

Can anyone suggest sources of support for the Branch which is doing so much but which wants to do the very best possible job for this person?

Please don't be shy and please don't detract from other ideas. I've deliberately not specified what we've looked into, so that no idea is pre-judged.

Would have thought the biggest hurdle without the club having the ability
to do sign language, would be the lectures. Ok you could condense the
Instructor notes, but we already have a pre-paid for media which has been
pretty much thown away.

Not sure of the costs, but how about putting the old Club/Ocean diver video
onto DVD and adding subtitles? I still use this for staples like the 88's, so
see no reason why it couldnt be adapted for a deaf person.

Even if the costs of editing direct onto the DVD is prohibitive a cheaper effort
can be managed just as effectivley using short AVI segments, with subtitles
below as part of a powerpoint presentation.

When you consider that BSAC will be sending out CD's/DVD's to every
Instructor starting 2008 with loads of room, would have thought not using
what looks like a discarded resouce is a real shame.

Not sure if this is what you are getting at Mike, but it's an idea.

[PeteM]

I've been contacted by a Branch who are making great progress teaching a profoundly deaf student (at OD level right now). There are many resources available to them, some of which I've been able to pass on. We've also discussed the general principles behind the BSAC's inclusive approach. However, and here's your challenge .....

Can anyone suggest sources of support for the Branch which is doing so much but which wants to do the very best possible job for this person?

Please don't be shy and please don't detract from other ideas. I've deliberately not specified what we've looked into, so that no idea is pre-judged.

Our branch has done similar in the past. One tip, when diving make the buddy a surface buddy as well. So the buddy is responsible for making sure the deaf person is aware of what is happening. A typical problem is that someone wants to do a briefing. The deaf person has either already removed their hearing aids or does not wear them, they are busy getting ready so do not notice the briefing starting and miss it. If the buddy is given responsibility for monitoring then they can ensure the important information is passed on, either by telling the person themselves or simply ensuring they are aware it is happening. You can imagine similar help being provided at other times.

Once in the water, of course the deaf person is at an advantage compared to a hearing person as they are more used to non verbal communication.

[deveugle]

Hmmm, is the person in question capable of lipreading for lectures ?
Would eliminate a lot, if not all, questions about that if also a little sign is agreed on that signifies the deaf person is following. Come to think of it, that would probably eliminate a lot, if not all potential problems if some care is taken in ensuring the deaf person is watching you when you're saying something important.

For in water or on boat briefings, I'd guess you'd have to resort to a hearing buddy if no lip reading is possible.

Further on, having you instructors practice teaching completely under water, perhaps ?

Also, I would imagine that at least some basic ASL or BSL would be useful for the instructors (and would be interested myself in knowing where one could pick up on that without breaking the bank or spending a lot of time). I guess that makes a free or cheap place to learn sign language quickly a highly desirable resource. In addition, picking up on sign langage, is something that can be done with the entire club as as a form of alternative and slightly off-the-beaten-path training (is it possible to organise a sign language day over some beers specific to diving ?). I could easily see the benefit and even more easy the fun that could be had with some general sign language knowledge across an entire club ...

Peter

[Vic]

OK, I know I'm going to get called a curmudgeon for this - but bear with me.

Can anyone suggest sources of support for the Branch which is doing so much but which wants to do the very best possible job for this person?

No.

I know that sounds a very negative response - but it's for a reason.

We are attempting to train a diver to deal with the realities of being a diver. And one of those realities is that most divers can't sign.

So to lead a hearing-impaired trainee into an environment where everyone else can accomodate his disability is only giving him a false impression[1]; the real world is full of divers that just can't.

The best advice I can give is to strap a slate to his arm as soon as he gets near a boat, and rely on that.

Sorry, an' all...

Vic.


[1] Yes, I agree that it would be good if we all could sign. Indeed, I think it worthy of inclusion into core DTP; divers that can sign are more competent as a team. But it isn't part of DTP, so we simply can't assume that capability in $random_buddy

[Steve in Sharm]

Not sure what you are asking for Mike!

I have taught three deaf people over the past two years (2 PADI, 1 BSAC) and can honestly say had no problems whatsoever (ok they could lip read fantastically), I even felt 'awed' at their progress, all it took was a slight tap on the shoulder when I had something to say to them and all was good. Whilst in lectures I just had to remember to keep my lips in view of the deaf trainee.

The best one I had was a deaf guy and his girlfriend (whose actual job was to stand at the side of the lecturn at a uni and sign the whole lesson). I'm trying to teach stuff at the bottom of a 4m pool and they were having a full blown arguement...... ace to watch!

To agree with Terry though - the PADI video can be run with subtitles and is an excellent tool - why cant we get a BSAC Vid as well?

please

Please

PLEASE

Pretty please!!!

[PeteM]

Hmmm, is the person in question capable of lipreading for lectures ?
Would eliminate a lot, if not all, questions about that if also a little sign is agreed on that signifies the deaf person is following. Come to think of it, that would probably eliminate a lot, if not all potential problems if some care is taken in ensuring the deaf person is watching you when you're saying something important.

In my experience following a lecture is often easier for a deaf person than them following a conversation as they only have one person to concentrate on. Lecturer needs to be deaf aware, so always face the audience, not even the half turn away that many people do. You can also temporarily loop a room for not much cost.

For in water or on boat briefings, I'd guess you'd have to resort to a hearing buddy if no lip reading is possible.

It is more a question of making sure they are aware that something is happening.

Further on, having you instructors practice teaching completely under water, perhaps ?

Also, I would imagine that at least some basic ASL or BSL would be useful for the instructors (and would be interested myself in knowing where one could pick up on that without breaking the bank or spending a lot of time). I guess that makes a free or cheap place to learn sign language quickly a highly desirable resource. In addition, picking up on sign langage, is something that can be done with the entire club as as a form of alternative and slightly off-the-beaten-path training (is it possible to organise a sign language day over some beers specific to diving ?). I could easily see the benefit and even more easy the fun that could be had with some general sign language knowledge across an entire club ...

Peter

Learning BSL will always take a lot of time, although it need not take a lot of money. It is a full rich language in its own right, with its own culture. Consider learning it closer to learning French than learning to read English as most people seem to think

[Adrian Kelland]

So to lead a hearing-impaired trainee into an environment where everyone else can accomodate his disability is only giving him a false impression[1]; the real world is full of divers that just can't.
However once in the water we are almost equals.

[Jamie]

Mike,

Thanks for the post, it's nice to see good work in action! Having read the previous posts; all great ideas, I would throw my hat in the ring. You say your student is profoundly deaf? I only have hearing on my left side so you may have noticed I put people on my left when we speak or look directly at them so I can lip read? This is my coping mechanism that I've aquired for day to day life. So why not ask what your student does in normal situations? They must deal with none signers so his standard of lip reading is probably quite high? I'd suggest that you give him a 'hearing' buddy for pool and open water stuff when under instruction and normal diving. This person is briefed to make the other student aware that they need to do something; briefings, hold on to the boat; stop kitting up so quickly. Then brief the instructors, look at the student at all times, keep the group tight, only work with a 2:1 ratio, speak clearly and no slang. Group control at the surface will have to be good, how many times do you see people collide when swimming backwards at inland sites? Make the instructor aware and maintain physical contact.

When leaping off boats or jetties, agreed hand signals instead of the normal 'GO!'. Boat party are briefed on signals for 'Take off your weight belt'; 'Take off your BC' and 'Enter the boat' to avoid confusion.

Again thanks for the post and could you possibly keep us informed as to how this develops, on a personal note it's very interesting.

Regards,

Jamie

[deveugle]

Learning BSL will always take a lot of time, although it need not take a lot of money. It is a full rich language in its own right, with its own culture. Consider learning it closer to learning French than learning to read English as most people seem to think
Having a minimum sign language capability was really my slant at turning what is usually experienced as a limitation into an enrichment for a dive club.

I understand that teaching an entire dive club full blown sign language is not going to happen easily (and mainly because of time). Also, as pointed out by Vic this might not be desirable if it is done to accommodate the deaf diver, because he will most likely also want to dive outside that specific branch. Furthermore, what seems to be emerging from this thread, is that, by just raising the general awareness of the instructors, skippers and dive managers, deaf people can be slotted in without any "special" preparation, equipment or attitude - assuming they possess a sufficient high standard of lip reading. I sneakily suspect Mike of wanting to make that point anyway.:p

However, because of the suggested similarity of learning BSL to learning French, I was wondering if it is not possible to get some "intro-level" knowledge of BSL easily spread through the club as this could be a very fun and perhaps even useful topic. Just as I don't need to know fully fluent French when I am on holiday in France, it might still be useful to get some basic French communication down, such as "Where is the wine ?". As an example, I have seen a club organise an afternoon of Russian lessons in preparation for a trip in the Barentsz Sea ("Where is the vodka?") that was very enthousiastically received and proved useful in several situations. I don't think any of those divers now speaks fluent Russian, though. So, the question I really was asking was: " Are there any resources/syllabi/MTM courses available to do this (and is it at all possible, because frankly I have no idea)?".

I could imagine, for instance, the following email from DO Willy D to his branch:

Hi Dive Club X,
As some of you might have heard already our newest trainee, Joe Y (who is deaf), is offering us the possibility of picking up on some sign language. As I think this is an excellent idea, we will be organising a trip to Village-by-the-Sea over the bank holiday in February. We will be using our trusted skipper, Mick Z, for some amazing morning dives around the Square Island, just 2 nm off shore and famous for its seals. On the afternoon of Saturday and Sunday we'll be setting up two-hour lessons (around the wonderful 18th century fire place of our accommodation !) of basic BSL, relevant to diving situations. Be prepared to flex your fingers. Of course, this training is not compulsory and you could come just for the amazing diving, but it does offer an unparalled opportunity to enhance your underwater communication skills. We will be pratcicing our newly gained BSL skills on the dives that weekend.
Practical details are: bladibla blabla ...

Just a suggestion (question?) ...

Peter

PS; It might just be my lack of knowledge of English, or just general unfamiliarity, but is there any difference between profoundly deaf and just deaf ? Enquiring mind wants to know ...

[TerryH]

Check this link made by Matt in another thread.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/diving/video/co2video.htm?ebul=hsegen/26-nov-2007&cr=8

It's an AVI file that has subtitles alongside.

A decent bit of editing on the old Club Diver Video to match the new syllabus
and you'd have a really good alternate.

[MattS]

You might want to get in touch with Dogfish divers. They train the sight impaired to scuba dive[1] and might be able to offer some general support and advice. The contact details can be found on the BSAC Snokelling branches page (http://www.bsacsnorkelling.co.uk/training/branches.htm)




[1]In the course of diving I sometimes meet people that just leave me feeling so very, very inadequate.

[Mike Halligan]

Thanks, Terry, that is extremely helpful.

In discussion with the club concerned, beside tipping them off about some more general contacts, sort of SportsCoachUK type stuff, I found they could contact a local school for assistance. We also understand that the student concerned has excellent lip-reading skills and can be accompanied by a signing relative. So this has become a leraning experience for the Branch as well.

This should help her and the branch, together, to devise crucial signs for diving. They are working on where she needs special care and have very specific briefing and buddy checking in development. Any assistance is really appreciated by the branch and I hope to draw on this to revise guidance.

[Mike Halligan]

[1]In the course of diving I sometimes meet people that just leave me feeling so very, very inadequate.

Too right, it's an awesome experience, isn't it?

Thanks for the Dogfish reference, I had lost it in either the great cleanup of 2005 or the PC crash of 2007 :o

[Mike Halligan]

Thanks Pete and Peter,

All really good, encouraging stuff. The Branch in question isn't at all fazed, I just want to speed up their learning process by drawing on knowledge available here. Their representative wasn't terribly confident they could post the query themselves, so I've done it for them.

I sneakily suspect Mike of wanting to make that point anyway.:p Why hush ma mouth! As if I'd suggest the issues can be more social than medical. :rolleyes:

However, because of the suggested similarity of learning BSL to learning French, I was wondering if it is not possible to get some "intro-level" knowledge of BSL easily spread through the club as this could be a very fun and perhaps even useful topic. Just as I don't need to know fully fluent French when I am on holiday in France, it might still be useful to get some basic French communication down, such as "Where is the wine ?". As an example, I have seen a club organise an afternoon of Russian lessons in preparation for a trip in the Barentsz Sea ("Where is the vodka?") that was very enthousiastically received and proved useful in several situations. I don't think any of those divers now speaks fluent Russian, though. So, the question I really was asking was: " Are there any resources/syllabi/MTM courses available to do this (and is it at all possible, because frankly I have no idea)?". I've asked the branch to contact "the Blind school" locally (terribly non-PC but you know what I mean) to see what they suggest. I was brought up near Terranova, one of the finest of them, in days when the title meant nothing discriminatory and local people could utter it without fear. How our beautiful language is hi-jacked :mad:


PS; It might just be my lack of knowledge of English, or just general unfamiliarity, but is there any difference between profoundly deaf and just deaf ? Enquiring mind wants to know ...

I think the term is used to distinguish those without any hearing at all and those with residual hearing capable of enhancement. Either way, our loss of aural direction finding when underwater illustrates very clearly the difficulty of life above water with hearing loss.

[Mike Halligan]

Thanks Vic, thanks Adrian,

Both excellent contributions. I'm sure the Branch concerned is learning fast from these ideas. I'm very hopeful that the local contacts being generated will draw us toward a basic vocabulary to kick things off. I suspect there are books on the subject already. I know that Branches (such as my own) do devise locally agreed signals for coping with particular needs, be they visual, aural or mobility. So long as the person who benefits from them ensures they are worked into the buddy check, everything then works OK and conditional qualifications can assist at times.

The necessary additional collaboration between diver, branch, instructor, DO, buddy & manager is really crucial once we move away from the bog-standard but once tried the extra effort usually improves relations within the branch.

[Mike Halligan]

Thanks Steve, thanks Jamie,

I too have seen a signed argument, it is frightening :D

There's clearly a demand regarding DVD materials so I will investigate as part of equity developments. It is amazing, though, how subtly and how quickly a deaf person can bring to heel the instructor who mumbles, who talks to the board, through his hand, to his shoes, etc. - and no bad thing for the rest of us! Already, just into OD pool work, the branch is thinking ahead to trips, boats, etc. and this is where they see the planning, briefing and implementation becoming more caring, more extensive and more satisfying - so I guess they're going to succeed.

Jamie's personal experience is hugely relevant, helpful and encouraging. I only noticed your coping strategy when you pointed it out here, Jamie, which is testament to your efforts in running with it. I think we have a girl of similar determination and initiative here so the branch will be aided by your input. The concept of a hearing buddy in line of sight is (IMVHO) a good one for pool and during OW entry / exit. I think it extends another point about the buddy being paired from the time the group leaves land until their return. With mobility impairment it is easier, anyone can support and protect. With sight and hearing impairment a more emphatic and personal commitment may be more appropriate.

[PeteM]

PS; It might just be my lack of knowledge of English, or just general unfamiliarity, but is there any difference between profoundly deaf and just deaf ? Enquiring mind wants to know ...

besides that difference you should also be aware that there is a difference between deaf and Deaf that is to do with cultural identity.

"Deaf" indicates the person identifies themselves predominantly with the non hearing culture, whereas "deaf" indicates they identify themselves predominantly with us lot.

[Hamish]

A decent bit of editing on the old Club Diver Video to match the new syllabus
and you'd have a really good alternate.

Hi all,

I converted the Video to DVD and updated the sections which needed it at the begining of the year. I was asked by Sean at last years DO conference if I was willing to have a go and completed it around March. It was submitted to Jim at HQ and thats the last I heard of it.

You have to bear in mind that it is slightly dated and although the vision quality conversion was good, as good as the original. The overlays which had to hide the original text overlays may not have been as good as an original, but were of a good quality.

I believe I have still got a copy at work so if someone wants an updated DVD copy, let me know.

Best of luck with the novice diver, as already stated, it's amazing what some people with an impiarment can do.

regards

Hamish

[paul_c]

in my club most if not all if the OD material is in the form of power point slides which are simple to read.

if the trainee has questions then he can ask and have the answer typed to them. as the lecturer explains further IF the person doesnt lip read.
some may consider this to be condecending but if it gets the point across to everyone in the training group then where is the issue?

as for in water training then a good old fashoned slate is a simple solution

a good idea is to ask the said deaf trainee what would help them the most to ensure that they get the most out of the training or if infact there is a problem. its not rude, or probing as long as you make it cleaqr that your asking for thier input into their training which through obviouse reasons may need to be altered to suit a person.


as for open water trips

please show me the club where every diver is totaly able bodied and doesnt have some form of limit to what they can do.
you will always have to plan dives based around the limits of a person and if unfortunatly they are not able to get to the dive site or just say that unfourtunatly you cant do it.
again it will be a case of asking the diver what they need to help them with the dive planning. is it a chance to plan the dive in advance so they can make there own brief for themselves? or is it a case of having a hearing buddy who writes it down as already has been mentioned.

[Mike Halligan]

a good idea is to ask the said deaf trainee what would help them the most to ensure that they get the most out of the training or if infact there is a problem. its not rude, or probing as long as you make it cleaqr that your asking for thier input into their training which through obviouse reasons may need to be altered to suit a person.


Thanks, Paul. This is the true fundamental.

Anyone supporting any disability is the true expert on the impact of the particular impairment on them that day and has a pretty good idea how best to mitigate it. So long as we have the humility to ask, explore and discuss we have every chance of a positive outcome. While we consider ourselves expert and try to tell, show and demand then we will get nowhere.

[TerryH]

in my club most if not all if the OD material is in the form of power point slides which are simple to read.

if the trainee has questions then he can ask and have the answer typed to them. as the lecturer explains further IF the person doesnt lip read.
some may consider this to be condecending but if it gets the point across to everyone in the training group then where is the issue?


Sounds good, but I'd be little concerned if they were the standard BSAC pp.
These are meant to be more bullet points, with a verbal expansion by the
instructor. That's why in another post I suggested boosting student notes
by giving the student the Instructor notes as well.

[paul_c]

hmm true ill agree with that. although my lectures are more around them being read to the group.