Airline Weight limits

[Nick McV]

I'm off to Sharm El Sheikh for a weeks diving for New Year - Booked through one of the normal dive tour operators... Flying Excel Airlines out of Gatwick.
The Tour Operator told me that the luggage allowance is 20kg (normal for charters) + 10kg extra for dive kit.

When I phoned the airline to confirm, I was told that Excel Airlines have 'changed to a smaller 'plane (737-800) for the winter season, so the limit is 20kg ONLY and any excess will be charged at ?5/kg'.

If divers are entitled to 10kg extra during the summer, why would you want to remove that extra in the winter, when they might like to take a slightly thicker wetsuit??

The tour operator was sympathetic, but not terribly helpful when I called them back and told them.

This kind of takes the edge off the holiday, as I am now concerned as to what will happen at the check-in desk, and how much I will get charged, instead of looking forward to a relaxing and enjoyable winter break.

A couple of thoughts...

The difference between what the airline says, and what is implemented at the check-in desk can be quite large, in either direction, and seems to depend on the mood of the check-in staff (and the attitude of the customer). Allowances for dive kit may or may not be honoured.

Schedule Airlines allow Golf Clubs to travel free in addition to your normal luggage allowance. Perhaps there is a market for a dive bage to be made to look like a golf bag.

There never seems to be a problem on the return flight, despite the addition of souvenirs to your luggage.

So what can we do? Charter airlines follow a different set of rules to schedule airlines. Do we have recourse through the tour operator? Surely the holiday sold is not fit for purpose if you can't take the equipment required with you. By definition, the tour operator is aware you will be taking equipment with you if you book a 'Tank & Weights' dive package.

Is there anything SITA (Scuba Industries Trade Assosciation) can do to help us plead our case for consistant treatment?

Is there some other trade body / airline regulator or whatever we can lobby? Would the Egyptian Tourist Board be interested in encouraging tourism by making the flights to Sharm & Hurghada hassle free?

If anyone else out there is travelling with Excel Airlines, you might like to check with them before you fly -
call 0870 1677747.

[Steve Walker]

I'm off to Sharm El Sheikh for a weeks diving for New Year - Booked through one of the normal dive tour operators... Flying Excel Airlines out of Gatwick.
The Tour Operator told me that the luggage allowance is 20kg (normal for charters) + 10kg extra for dive kit.

When I phoned the airline to confirm, I was told that Excel Airlines have 'changed to a smaller 'plane (737-800) for the winter season, so the limit is 20kg ONLY and any excess will be charged at ?5/kg'.

If divers are entitled to 10kg extra during the summer, why would you want to remove that extra in the winter, when they might like to take a slightly thicker wetsuit??

The tour operator was sympathetic, but not terribly helpful when I called them back and told them.

This kind of takes the edge off the holiday, as I am now concerned as to what will happen at the check-in desk, and how much I will get charged, instead of looking forward to a relaxing and enjoyable winter break.

A couple of thoughts...

The difference between what the airline says, and what is implemented at the check-in desk can be quite large, in either direction, and seems to depend on the mood of the check-in staff (and the attitude of the customer). Allowances for dive kit may or may not be honoured.

Schedule Airlines allow Golf Clubs to travel free in addition to your normal luggage allowance. Perhaps there is a market for a dive bage to be made to look like a golf bag.

There never seems to be a problem on the return flight, despite the addition of souvenirs to your luggage.

So what can we do? Charter airlines follow a different set of rules to schedule airlines. Do we have recourse through the tour operator? Surely the holiday sold is not fit for purpose if you can't take the equipment required with you. By definition, the tour operator is aware you will be taking equipment with you if you book a 'Tank & Weights' dive package.

Is there anything SITA (Scuba Industries Trade Assosciation) can do to help us plead our case for consistant treatment?

Is there some other trade body / airline regulator or whatever we can lobby? Would the Egyptian Tourist Board be interested in encouraging tourism by making the flights to Sharm & Hurghada hassle free?

If anyone else out there is travelling with Excel Airlines, you might like to check with them before you fly -
call 0870 1677747.


I'm flying with Monarch airlines soon so would be interested to hear peoples experiences with them and weight considerations
Cheers
Steve

[Nick McV]

Well, I'm Back - and the result?
Well, Excel had subcontracted to JMI, who were flying a plane liveried as 'Thomas Cook'.....
Aparently JMI & Thomas Cook will merge in a couple of months time, but this doesn't help when you're trying to work out what you can carry. Note that Excel didn't see fit to tell me about this when I phoned them.
Seat pitch was not generous, as a result I got my knee soundly bashed by the trolleys three times.

[TerryH]

I'm flying with Monarch airlines soon so would be interested to hear peoples experiences with them and weight considerations
Cheers
Stevediving equipment

Snap.

Have contacted them for clarification, but they dont seem to be
to helpful.

From their website ......
"Diving equipment can be accepted for carriage as part of your baggage allowance (excess charges may apply depending on total weight - see sports equipment below). Please make sure that cylinders are empty and valves left open.
sports equipment
Sports equipment will be checked in as part of a passenger's normal allowance.
Any sports equipment over your permitted 20kg hold allowance may be subject to excess baggage charges.
Set charges apply to bulky items."

It's that little word "may" that is causing me grief!

TerryH

[andy young]

Just back from South Africa major problem with weight with KLM. Fine last year 10kg each, verbal agreement this year but got hit for 8kg x ?27 at check-in. Nowhere to dump kit (no left luggage)45mins to flight. Blackmail. Waved the plastic with a promise from Customer Services that they would write to me to discuss issue. Fat chance. Came back overweight (and my bags) with a cheery wave from KLM SA. Must be a moral there somewhere.

[Veronique Heyes]

I take two vacations abroad a year where I will not only lug my dive kit, but an underwater camera system in a case of its own. I have been very lucky never to have been badly stung with overweight limits, my overall kit including the camera, which is just about handbaggage size, is normally between 20 and 30 kg. There is no hard and fast rule about this, and whatever you do will very much depend on the day on the person you get at the check-in desk. There are some things you can do, however, to ease yourself along to as little hassle as possible.

1. State to your travel agent that you will expect an allowance for diving equipment, and ask them to confirm this has been arranged by them with the airline. If they won't do it then ask why they are in the business of selling diving holidays? A reputable dive holiday operator is well aware of the problem and will do everything to help, or at least, give you adequate warning about what to expect and what is out of the question. If things look not promising, plan on minimising your load to the maximum. 22 or 23 kg of bags is easier to negotiate than 30.

2. Don't leave it at that. Contact the airline in good time, ie not the day before you fly, and confirm with them the arrangement you have with the travel agent. Ask for this to be annotated on the booking reference. Ask for a name and a call reference no.

3. Turn up at the airport to be first in the queue. Smile, be businesslike with your information gathered over the 2 points above. It's no good expecting to have an 'overweight' bag considered when the plane is already well checked in, and the payload well on its way to maxed out.

4. Some destinations are likely to be a pain. The red sea planes are full of divers with kit, and a plane is still a plane. It needs fuel to correspond with payload, no more and no less. I won't say it enough, check in early...and let the laggards take the flack for overloaded bags.

5. Some airlines are just inconsistent. KLM is a pain. It's yes, it's no, it's never the same story. I have always managed to get them round though. Sometimes you have to be careful. Emirates will allow a 10kg extra on their Asian/far East routes which is brilliant, till you find out that the bag you thought was going by dhoni (as per your brochure) to your Maldive resort whilst you took the seaplane is actually going with you on the seaplane and they charge $7 per kg over and above 20 kg. It's a nuisance but let's face it, what's $70 for 10 kg excess, when some scheduled airlines can charge you $100's per kg... Virgin are also inconsistent. I had to argue for 20 minutes to go to South Africa with wait for it, 2 kg excess, before I could check in finally, and came back with 10 kg excess and they did not bat an eyelid... Go figure. American carriers are great, 2 pieces any weight and you're away. British Airways is not bad either, even domestic, at least, that's my experience.

6. I had it said to me a while back that chartered airlines are not allowed to charge excess baggage, and if they do, it's illegal. All they can ask for is for you to off load some weight. Only scheduled have a right, and this corresponds to additional fuel needed for the excess payload. That's why negotiating with a charter operation is not so flexible, and so frought. Unless you are willing to leave kit behind, that is. I hate flying with them.

Morale of the story? it's a lottery! I'd like to know how the golfing fraternity wrangled their rights to carry clubs FOC on planes. This debate for divers was raging already when I started diving 12 years ago, and nothing much seems to have changed, has it?

[Nick McV]

After I posted the original whinge, I did get in touch with a representative from SITA and asked for this to be brought up as an item at their next meeting..

The reaction was positive, in that the are going to discuss it, but didn't hold out much hope for anything coming of it.

I'll keep you 'posted'....
Nick

[Dave]

when some scheduled airlines can charge you $100's per kg... "

The highest rate is around ?30 per Kilo

"Go figure. American carriers are great, 2 pieces any weight and you're away."

That's nothing to do with being American, it is due to the fact that journeys to and from the US are based on the piece based system rather than the weight system. All scheduled flights to/via the US allow this , regardless of the carrier.

Dave

[Mike Halligan]

That's nothing to do with being American, it is due to the fact that journeys to and from the US are based on the piece based system rather than the weight system. All scheduled flights to/via the US allow this , regardless of the carrier.


True, and if my information is correct the same (2 bags, each ne 32kg) applies to all sectors of any itinerary including a sector to/from N America, such as Round-the-World tickets.

I also found that Singapore Airlines' offer of an extra 10kg within this site is intended for UK - Far East dive trips. However, faced with immediate withdrawal from a fully paid option, they were quick to extend the concession to Manchester/Auckland.

Prior agreement and confirmed inclusion on PNR of these concessions (+10kg and carriage of pony in my case) is absolutely crucial. They do not appear on the ticket, so don't get stroppy when ticketted. This does not mitigate Lyndsey's comment about early check-in either. The critical term here is "concession". There is no obligation on the airline to agree these concessions and if abused they can be withdrawn.

However, be nice and understand their business and all will be well.

HTH

Mike

[Dave]

True, and if my information is correct the same (2 bags, each ne 32kg) applies to all sectors of any itinerary including a sector to/from N America, such as Round-the-World tickets.

On a single ticketed itinery, the same allowance will apply to the whole trip. Hence, when I travel to Oz, I travel out via asia and back via the third world of air travel (US) in order to get 128 Kg allowance ( 3 x 32 Kg std plus 1 x 32Kg which QF allows me for diver gear ).. admittedly, I did manage to get to 212 Kg last trip without hassles, rather than the much lower limit of 20/30/40 Kg that would apply if I went out and back via the Eastern Hemispehere


Prior agreement and confirmed inclusion on PNR of these concessions (+10kg and carriage of pony in my case) is absolutely crucial. They do not appear on the ticket, so don't get stroppy when ticketted. This does not mitigate Lyndsey's comment about early check-in either. The critical term here is "concession". There is no obligation on the airline to agree these concessions and if abused they can be withdrawn.

Actually, if an authorised agent of the airline logs into the PNR that additional allowance has been granted then there is absolutely no reason to check in early since this is now officially your allowance. I rarely check in for a long haul flight much more than an hour or so before departure. That is plently long enough at an airport for me

If you have not been granted any extra allowance and are just trying to get extra in for free then get there earlier in order to deal with the situation should they decide to charge for it.

The big gotcha to watch out for is when travelling on multiple carriers. Each carrier will have its own PNR and just because one carrier has entered in an exemption to the limit it does not carry over to another carrier.

Dave

[Charles Stirling]

:=True, and if my information is correct the same (2 bags, each ne 32kg) applies to all sectors of any itinerary including a sector to/from N America, such as Round-the-World tickets.

On a single ticketed itinery, the same allowance will apply

CAUTION: Some US airlines, Delta is one, and at least one other have just (Feb 12th or so) changed their rulls to 50 pounds (about 22kg) per bag. Still 2 bags. But Delta is now saying that Scuba equipment will automaticly be charged Extra. If you are using them be very carful and check precisly before as they are doing fixed penelty charges which are additive.

See: <a href="http://www.delta.com/travel/trav_serv/bag_info/excess_bag/index.jsp" >http://www.delta.com/travel/trav_serv/bag_info/excess_bag/index.jsp</a>

[Dave]

:=
:=:=True, and if my information is correct the same (2 bags, each ne 32kg) applies to all sectors of any itinerary including a sector to/from N America, such as Round-the-World tickets.
:=
:=On a single ticketed itinery, the same allowance will apply

CAUTION: Some US airlines, Delta is one, and at least one other have just (Feb 12th or so) changed their rulls to 50 pounds (about 22kg) per bag. Still 2 bags. But Delta is now saying that Scuba equipment will automaticly be charged Extra. If you are using them be very carful and check precisly before as they are doing fixed penelty charges which are additive.


The new 50Lb limits introduced by the US major carriers apply only to solely domestic itineries. International itineries are unaffected by these changes since they are issued under international treaties

Dave

[Nick McV]

Reply from Scuba Industries Trade Assosciation - 11th Feb:

Hi Nick,
We discussed today your request for SITA to get involved with the issue of excess baggage on aircraft. I am pleased to say that they have agreed to take a proactive role in this regard. I will keep you informed of their progress.
Best regards,
Mike Holbrook

McV: Good news, huh???

[steveowens]

Reply from Scuba Industries Trade Assosciation - 11th Feb:

Hi Nick,
We discussed today your request for SITA to get involved with the issue of excess baggage on aircraft. I am pleased to say that they have agreed to take a proactive role in this regard. I will keep you informed of their progress.
Best regards,
Mike Holbrook

McV: Good news, huh???
Hi Nick,
Excellent ! Fingers crossed... I for one am sick and tired of booking diving holidays with various agents and discussing luggage allowance in advance only to turn up and have to debate it all again at check in or get your cheque book out.
Complaining on return always results in the same answer... its the airlines fault .. sorry!
I wonder how long the golfing holiday industry would last if carriers refused to take golf clubs, or for that matter, ski's, snowboards etc.
Can we as divers do anything ? I think so If we accept it and pay up nothing will change. If we advertise co-operative tour operators and carriers and insist as far as possible for a standard allowance for dive kit we might get our way!
My personal experience has been that divers worried about luggage allowance tend to sacrifice things like surface detection aids, not a good idea!
We should have a collective voice worth listerning to and governing bodies and businesses with a interest in diving should be putting pressure on carriers after all we dont get much leg room for our money!
Oh I feel much better now................
Steve O

[tony thomson]

I'm off to Sharm El Sheikh for a weeks diving for New Year - Booked through one of the normal dive tour operators... Flying Excel Airlines out of Gatwick.
The Tour Operator told me that the luggage allowance is 20kg (normal for charters) + 10kg extra for dive kit.

When I phoned the airline to confirm, I was told that Excel Airlines have 'changed to a smaller 'plane (737-800) for the winter season, so the limit is 20kg ONLY and any excess will be charged at ?5/kg'.


I am off the Maderia soon with Air 200......there customer service have written back and confirmed that an extra 10kg allowance is permitted for dive gear, but only on production of your qualification card.....good news for this airline.